Episode 315 – Unstoppable Independent Living Canada Leader with Freda Uwa

Freda Uwa grew up in Nygeria. There she attended college securing a bachelor’s degree and then went on to do some advance studies as well. She is a trained nurse. She also is a nutrition expert and, as she tells us, she loves to cook.
 
Five years ago Freda moved to Canada. She spent time as a mental health case manager even before her husband and three boys moved to Canada to join her. As she tells us, while she absolutely loved her time as a case manager, the job was quite taxing on her. She had to handle many cases where she had no one with whom to share her experiences. As we discuss here, not having any opportunity to decompress by talking to a spouse or others is by no means healthy.
 
Eventually Freda gave up her case management job and, just about a year ago, she assumed the job of Executive Director of Independent Living Canada. This organization oversees 24 independently operated independent living centers which are spread throughout Canada. She has shown that she is ideal for the job due to her leadership and project management training and skills. Freda is the first black leader of IL Canada which has been in existence for 38 years.
 
Freda gives us lots of insights on leadership and community. I hope you enjoy our time with Freda and that you will take the time to give this episode and Unstoppable Mindset a 5-star rating.
 
 
 
About the Guest:
 
Freda Uwa is a distinguished leader and advocate in the fields of independent living, accessibility, and mental health. Freda draws from her extensive experience in Canada to
drive impactful initiatives and foster inclusive communities.
 
Currently, Freda serves as the National Executive Director of Independent Living Canada, overseeing 24 Independent Living Centres led by individual Executive Directors across the country. In this role, she made history as the first Black leader in the organization’s 38-year history and the first African in Canada to ever lead the sector as National Executive Director.
 
Freda’s notable accomplishments include her work as the Project Manager for the Creating Accessible Events Project for the Government of Canada through Accessible Standards Canada. This role underscores her commitment to ensuring that events across the nation are inclusive and accessible to all individuals, regardless of their abilities.
 
As the Regional Coordinator for the IDEA Project for Race and Disability Canada, Freda plays a pivotal role in addressing the intersectionality of race and disability, advocating for policies and practices that promote equity and inclusion.Her extensive background in mental health is exemplified by her previous role as a Mental Health and Addictions Case Manager, where she provided critical support and care to individuals facing mental health challenges and substance use issues.
 
In addition to her leadership and advocacy roles, Freda holds a Canadian Red Seal Endorsement for Skills and Trades, showcasing her dedication to professional excellence and her commitment to fostering skill development and employment opportunities.
 
 
Freda Uwa’s career is marked by her unwavering dedication to championing the rights and needs of marginalized communities, her innovative approach to project management, and her exceptional leadership in promoting independent living and accessibility. Her work continues to inspire and drive positive change across Canada, Africa and beyond.
 
Ways to connect with Freda:
 
IL Canada Facebook Link – https://www.facebook.com/MyIndependentLivingCanada?mibextid=ZbWKwL
Freda’s LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/freda-uwa-7515a235?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=android_app 
Freda Instagram (Business page)  – https://www.instagram.com/luluseventsandkitchen?igsh=YW10OWs3ODY5d2Q1
 
About the Host:
 
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.
 
Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.
 
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/
 
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Transcription Notes:

Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.
 
Michael Hingson ** 01:21
Well, hi everyone, and welcome once again to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet, and we do get to talk about inclusion today. And as some of you know who are regular listeners to this podcast, the reason it is inclusion, diversity in the unexpected is it’s inclusion because it is. Diversity comes second after inclusion, because if you talk to people about diversity, typically they never talk about disabilities. We get left out of the discussion. And then the unexpected is anything that doesn’t have anything to do with inclusion or diversity, which is probably most of the guests that we deal with. But today, we are going to have the honor of speaking to Freda Uwa and Freda is the executive director of independent living Canada, which has responsibility or works with the 24 independent living centers around Canada. And so I’m really looking forward to learning more about that and hearing about it and looking forward to hearing all that Freda has to say. So Freda, we want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset, and we’re really glad you’re here.
 
Freda Uwa ** 02:29
Thank you, Michael, thanks for having me. Well, I
 
Michael Hingson ** 02:33
love to start kind of little bit different than maybe some people do tell us about the early Frida, growing up and all that sort of stuff, anything that that you want us to know, and you don’t have to tell us all your secrets, but tell us about the early freedom.
 
Freda Uwa ** 02:49
Oh, that’s fun. Thanks. Michael. Freda, the little girl. Freda i Oh, that’s so much fun. Now I think about growing up and all of the memories that that comes with so I I am privileged to have grown in a closely middle class family in Nigeria. I grew up in Nigeria, one of the countries in Africa, and it was fun, right? The bills, just happy go lucky child. I was the one child that had all the breast of energy, and I just loved to laugh. So that was all of that. There was family, faith based activities, and I also had schooling, of course. And went to college, did my nursing, went on to do a BSc in home Science and Management, and with an option in nutrition and dietetics and so all of that was fun. And of course, I enjoyed having to be part of a family that loved to do things together. So that was, that’s Freda, oh, the little girl. Frida, yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 04:02
that’s the little girl. Frida, well, that works out pretty well. So you have a bachelor’s did you go anywhere beyond a bachelor’s degree or
 
Freda Uwa ** 04:11
Yeah, so in Canada, I had, I took a post grad certificate in nursing, leadership and management, and then community mental health certificate as well. So yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 04:23
what that works out pretty well and certainly kept you busy. And what did? What did you do with all that? Once you got your degrees,
 
Freda Uwa ** 04:33
I evolved. You evolved.
 
Michael Hingson ** 04:37
You grew up then, huh?
 
Freda Uwa ** 04:39
Absolutely, absolutely. So there was a lot of growth that came with that, a lot of responsibilities. I moved to Canada, figured out new part and all of that. So there was all of the growth that happened and that forces you to evolve. So the degree, the experience and all of that. So in the short answer is I evolved with that. So yeah. Us.
 
Michael Hingson ** 05:01
Okay, and so what kind of jobs did you hold
 
Freda Uwa ** 05:09
all my life? You mean, or you’re just asking for a period in my life?
 
Michael Hingson ** 05:13
Yes, so once college was over, what kind of, what kind of jobs did you actually do then for a while?
 
Freda Uwa ** 05:19
Okay, so I, I am a registered nurse as well, so I’m right. I have many parts, right? So I did nursing. I also have a business, a food business as well. So I was into events management and catering at the time, and then the core of what I do now, also started in Nigeria, where I led a nonprofit for about four years before moving over to Canada, did some schooling, and then came back to the space that I love, and that’s social services around people, supporting people with disabilities and all of that so and that’s a pack of all that I did in terms of work.
 
Michael Hingson ** 06:01
What brought you from Nigeria to Canada?
 
Freda Uwa ** 06:05
First of all, it was cooling, like I came to experience that other side of education, right? So I came with that flare, and then family moved over, and now I’m here.
 
Michael Hingson ** 06:19
Well, that works out pretty well we i People won’t necessarily see it, but we just have company joining us. My cat has joined us. I see and I’m trying to get her up on the back of our desk chair so that she will hopefully leave us alone. Anyway, there we go. Well, so how long ago did you come over from Nigeria to Canada? I’ve been in
 
Freda Uwa ** 06:45
Canada going on five years now. I I moved here at the peak of, not the peak at the beginning of the pandemic. So I came in just as I got into Canada, everywhere was shut down. So I’m like, is this the reality? Is this what it feels like being here? So I was almost locked up right away. So yeah, that’s, that’s my journey. So it’s about going on five years now.
 
Michael Hingson ** 07:10
Wow. So you’ve been here a while. So you, you came over here and you, you decided that your passion was really working in the arena of disabilities and and so on. So what? What really caused you to do that? Why did you decide that that’s what you really wanted to do with your life?
 
Freda Uwa ** 07:34
Great question. Michael, so I’ve always known that I had what I call a greater calling, like I’ve always wanted to live my purpose in life. I know I did share that. I am a registered nurse in Nigeria, and having all of that, and also business owner in Nigeria, but I find that in all that I did, there was something, there was a missing piece, right? So I needed to, I needed to fill that void and recall that I told you that I grew up in a close knit family setting, so my younger sister that I love today, by the way, she has a disability, and I’ve been a primary caregiver I had, or I was her primary caregiver for a while, and I also watched my mother struggle through that. At some point, my mother, my mother’s life, was almost on hold because she needed to take care of her child. So that, in itself, created the need for me to just fill a void, right? So it was beyond just where, where’s the money, right? It was beyond that, and I needed to just leave out my purpose and find a career that would really and genuinely make me happy while I’m touching life in the way that I know how to
 
Michael Hingson ** 09:05
Yeah, well, and I believe very firmly in the fact that if you’re really doing what you like to do, then it isn’t really a job. It’s it’s a whole lot more fun, and it’s a whole lot more rewarding. Absolutely,
 
Freda Uwa ** 09:19
I’m having fun, Michael, I’m having funded. So yes, which
 
Michael Hingson ** 09:22
is, which is really important to be able to do, what if I can ask, is the disability that your sister has? She’s
 
Freda Uwa ** 09:30
She has intellectual disability. So it’s, yeah, so it’s all and again, with misdiagnosis and all of that. So that’s a whole situation going on, right there. So that’s why, that’s how I how come I, I’m like, there is a void that needs to be filled, right? So it’s all of the complications that comes out from misdiagnosis and her living through that all her life. Yeah, yeah.
 
Michael Hingson ** 09:54
Now is, is she and your family still in Nigeria, or did they move over here too?
 
Freda Uwa ** 09:59
I know my my mom and my sister are still in Nigeria. In
 
Michael Hingson ** 10:04
Nigeria, well, I assume you go back and visit every so often. That’s all we have. Yeah, you gotta do that well and and when you can’t go back, you’ve got things like zoom so you can still look at them and talk to them.
 
Freda Uwa ** 10:18
Absolutely we, we thank God for technology. So it’s all of that, yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 10:24
yeah, technology has certainly made a significant difference in the whole art of communications over the past, oh, especially 10 years, but certainly in the last five years, just because of what the pandemic has done and so on, for sure. So how did you end up specifically deciding to get involved with independent living centers, and how did you end up being the executive director of independent living Canada?
 
Freda Uwa ** 10:55
Oh, interesting. That’s a great question. Michael, so I, I, I say this always, my story and journey has always been that of resilience and just a journey of self discovery and awareness. I’ll give you, I’ll share with you. Michael, right, as I came into Canada in 2020, at the beginning of COVID, I was in, I was in a I was in on a conversation with a friend at the time, and he was sharing an experience, and was speaking to me about somebody, and speaking to me about a newcomer who had come into Canada and was leading an organization like an like an administrator at the time, and this history was about the consequences of mismanagement of some sort. Hm, and he, he let me know that the, the woman got into trouble, and, you know, was relieved of her job and all of that because she didn’t do something, right? But while I was listening to that story, a seed was planted in me that, hold on, I’ve got this experience, I’ve got this much knowledge, I’ve got this much abilities, I’ve got this much skills. Then if a newcomer could transfer all of that here to Canada and do all of this. That means there is space for me somewhere. So it wasn’t more so of yes, what you shouldn’t do, it’s something, it didn’t come to me as though, like it’s a test for your competence or something. I knew there was, there was a possibility somewhere. So that was when the seed was planted in me. And as soon as I began to look for jobs, I started looking out for the jobs that aligned with what I had done, including my executive executive leadership in Nigeria. And that was how it happened that I was done schooling, and I started looking for opportunities, and I went out to apply for jobs that would speak to my competencies and and the rest that says history. So I we, that’s how the seed was planted. I’m like, okay, yeah, there I go, and I’ll tell you what happened with my very first interview and Michael, I didn’t get called for an interview and Ed role. And I, I’m not sure if you know about the process with executive hiring, it’s a lot of steps, like you do the phone the phone interview, you do the writing, you go for, like a first phase, a second phase, and all of that. It was really daunting. And I went through all the phases, and I was feeling really confident and good about it. I actually went through to the last phase where I had to go in person to see the outgoing Ed who was retiring at the time, and kind of like had a meeting slash interview situation that it looked as though I was getting on boarded, but it wasn’t, like official. So in my head, I felt that this is it. I’m there, yeah. So I did, I did all of that. I went back home, and a couple of days later I got the email, you know, one of those emails, and I’m like, oh, oh, no. So this is it’s that’s no way on from here that this is it. I And then like, Oh, thank you for your time and all of that. So we’ve moved on to XYZ, and you know all of those words, I’m like, oh, in that moment, I didn’t feel like, I didn’t feel too bad, because I felt like, Oh, this is my first and I got this close, then that’s something, right? So yeah, I’m like, okay, that’s not too bad. But what happened next was what really got me thinking I continued my job search, right? So a couple of weeks later, I get an email from the same organization asking if I. Still available for the role and for the job. And I was excited again. I’m like, Oh yes, I can. Why not? And then in their response there, they wanted to have a second interview, set of interview. I’m like, hold on, what’s going on? I’m like, okay, that’s not too bad. I will, I will make myself available for the interview, and I did, and I think we had the next one, and I got really worried. And then after that, I got an email saying the same thing, that they had given the role to somebody else, and that got me angry. Yeah, right. So I needed to know what it was. You name it. Let me what I so I sent out an email to them. I’m like, Oh, hold on. So what’s all this? What’s, what’s, what’s going on, let me know why my like, I just needed to know. And then they responded to say that I was over qualified for the role. I’m like, that’s, that’s, that’s a dumb answer, right? So, Hawaii, why would you say that to be now that, now that I’m thinking about it, right? So I took all of that in, and I decided to move on from there and just pick up the lessons. And then went forward with that. So that experience in itself shapes me into the resilience of not just giving up, because I knew I was very close to getting what I wanted right. So I went on from there, and I became an addictions case manager, addictions and mental health case manager, a job that I really, really love. It was so beautiful I had. I had the privilege of going to flying into the isolated reserves in those little, small airplanes and all of that. So I give so many emergency responses, whether it’s flawed calls for suicide and all of those mental health work. I really loved that job, but it was so heavy on me, and it was at the time when I was going through a lot in my my own self, like emotionally and my mental health, I was by myself in Canada. At the time, my my family, that my husband and kids were still in Nigeria. So the weight of all of that was too much on me, like there was nothing to decompress to, if you know what I mean, right? So you go, you hear all of these heavy things, and you cannot really process your own feelings. And then I’m also thinking about the same situation, and I’m thinking about, Oh, what’s going on? What’s my what’s what’s going on in my head? So I didn’t, I didn’t, I didn’t stay too long on that job. And then I and also I left because it was too much, like I said, even though I loved the job. And then I went on to become the CEO of an Ability Center, which is also supporting individuals with intellectual disabilities. And from there on, was when I, I moved on to il Canada, and I’m loving it. So that’s my story of resilience.
 
Michael Hingson ** 17:59
Yeah, it is really tough when you’re you’re by yourself, and you don’t have anyone to talk to and to share things with, because talking with someone, talking things out, is always important and is always helpful, because it helps you put things in perspective. And when you can’t do that, it just bottles up inside of you, and that’s that’s not good. Mm, hmm,
 
18:23
absolutely,
 
Michael Hingson ** 18:26
well, but, but you, you moved on. So how long have you been in il Canada? Now
 
Freda Uwa ** 18:33
going on one year? Oh, September, yes. So it’s just what going on one year in September. So, yeah, feel very new.
 
Michael Hingson ** 18:42
So tell me a little bit about il Canada and what you do and so on.
 
Freda Uwa ** 18:47
Okay, so I’ll Canada. It’s basically a network of independent living centers across the country. It started in, it was it started in it started as a movement a long time ago, in 1986 it was formerly known as Canadian Association of Independent Living Centers, and now now independent living Canada. So it’s all about providing a collective voice on the on national issues for all of our member centers and fostering and maintaining partnerships in that regard, building capacity and scaling what we’re doing, especially on the national level. So our member centers have the via our foot soldiers in different different communities and different local centers. So we are we’ve got il member centers in almost across every project, every province in Canada. It’s in Saskatchewan, Ontario, you name it, it’s everywhere. So IO Canada, it’s we thrive on. Four core pillars of service, which would be independent living, skills development, peer support, Networking and Information and all of the resources that we do. So we provide a national voice for all 24 member centers, and they are all run by different executive directors and offering unique needs to their communities,
 
Michael Hingson ** 20:25
so and so. What you do is, do you do you coordinate services? Do you act as more of a case manager and distribute funds? Or what does IO Canada do for the 24 agencies, right?
 
Freda Uwa ** 20:43
Great question. So these, like I said, the 24 agencies or centers, are independent of like they are autonomous, like the source funds and all of that, even though we provide some substantial but it is really, they are very independent of what we do, so we are like a collective voice for the member centers on the national level. So that’s what IEL Canada does. We there’s monthly meetings, there is all of the accreditations that we do and just ensuring that all accredited member centers are operating within our four core pillars of service that promotes independent living for people with cross disabilities.
 
Michael Hingson ** 21:29
What relationship or how do you interact with organizations like the Canadian National Institute for the Blind and so on.
 
Freda Uwa ** 21:39
So that in itself. It’s it will totally depend on what projects we’re working on, right? So it would be project based or research based, right? So we are a national voice for all of our centers. So if, if any of our Centers are partnering, partnering with any individual Association, that is the partnership we’re seeking, and we will support and encourage them. But on the national level, it’s usually project based or collaboration in terms of research or information, or whatever that looks like, or maybe communities of practice and all of that.
 
Michael Hingson ** 22:17
Well, how does well, let me rephrase that, what does CNIB do, as opposed to what the independent living centers do? Do you know,
 
Freda Uwa ** 22:28
again, each independent living center is operating on different like they have, they have tailored made programs for their centers, right? So some people have communities that they have programs that support vision loss or the blind and all the other centers who have programs for youth, employment, housing, transportation. So they are all direct funding to support independent living in terms of managing your resources and other skills. So for in that regard, it would naturally lie with the centers and how they want to collaborate with cnid. So it’s for us at the national level. It would mostly be on research or any collaboration on the project, but to actually reach out to the consumers or participants, it will be the independent centers, like the member centers themselves, right?
 
Michael Hingson ** 23:24
So a CNI be more of a funding agency or, or, well, I know that they do provide services, but I was just trying to understand where the overlap is, or, or how the two types of organizations interact with each other.
 
Freda Uwa ** 23:39
I’m not familiar with their model, like, I don’t know about their model, yeah, but most, what we do with every organization, or most organization is collaboration or partnership, right? So they may have a different funding model for us at IELTS Canada. It’s it’s center is working on our four core pillars, providing different programs and services within these four populars, and they’re at liberty to fill up make these programs to suit their communities.
 
Michael Hingson ** 24:09
Okay? So they they may work, and they may get some funding from CNIB for specific projects and so on. But I, I understand that you’re dealing with being closer to the individual communities where
 
Freda Uwa ** 24:22
you are. Oh, for sure, that’s with the member centers. Yeah, for myself, I am, like the administrative head for the national organization, the National aisle, right,
 
Michael Hingson ** 24:31
right. Yeah, right. Well, so when, when you’ve been working and you’ve you’ve now been doing some of this for a while, what would be for you a pivotal moment, given our philosophy, or our title, unstoppable mindset, where is a pivotal moment in your life, where you had to really demonstrate resilience? It’s an unstoppability.
 
Freda Uwa ** 25:03
I like that question so much. I I kind of feel like, um, I’ve had so many of those moments, right? I’ve had the moment where I had to face the pandemic, pandemic all by myself, without my family here. And I’m like, No, so I have to be here for me. I have to be here for my family as well. So all of those is all of that. It’s a part of the package, right? And then I also had the moment where I started on that conversation with my friend that spoke about that lady, and it planted a seed in my heart, like I was there was something for me if I was going to transfer all of my skills from Nigeria. I could do it right and and then again, the next big thing that happened to me was having a meltdown on my job as a as a case manager for mental health and addictions. So all of those moments left me, like you said, with that unstoppable mindset, like growth is not always linear, like you get bumps, you get heat, and then you have to get up and you keep moving. Yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 26:13
yeah, you you’ve got to make that decision to do that, to make the decision to to move forward. And that’s an individual choice, but when you decide to do it and you stick to it, you get such a wonderful feeling of accomplishment, don’t you Exactly,
 
Freda Uwa ** 26:30
exactly, that’s, that’s, that’s, yeah, yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 26:35
which is, which is pretty cool. So you are able to, you know, to move forward and do the things that you do, the things that you got to do. So you’re also unusual in another way, in terms of being the first black executive director of independent living Canada and one of the first two black leaders in a lot of different areas and aspects of the whole rehabilitation and independent living environment. Does that get to be a challenge for you, or do you regard that as a plus or what?
 
Freda Uwa ** 27:15
I think it’s both, because it comes with a lot of pressure, for sure, and then there is that feeling of who, what’s here, like, am I finding somebody that looks like me, and what’s there to learn from? Right? So, who’s gone ahead before me, and where’s the where is all the mentorship? Where would that come from? Right? But I also find that I’ve got a lot, a ton of support from my board. Yeah, ever so supportful, self supportive and yeah, so that has helped. So it’s a feeling of of there is work to be done, and, of course, a feeling of accomplishment of some sort, but more so that I I’ve got a bucket to feel with what’s been expected, like I need to give back with what’s been poured into me, right? So that’s all of that, but in one hand, in the one hand, I see that I there is a gap. There is a gap in representation, for sure. I know we talk about inclusion in terms of people with disabilities, and also thinking about building capacity for young leaders and newcomer leaders coming forward, and making sure that they find a mentorship and some form of support to build capacity in leadership. In that regard, because they are usually different, different levels of expectations from a racialized person as a leader and a non racialized person. So it’s all of that, all of that pressure for sure, and having to face that, and constantly telling your story or living through barriers, even as a leader, you have constant barriers you keep facing and then kind of rewriting your own story. I would say,
 
Michael Hingson ** 29:07
now you don’t have a disability in any traditional sense, right? I
 
Freda Uwa ** 29:12
would say undiagnosed, because I don’t know. I feel like I know I have something, but it’s undiagnosed. So yes,
 
Michael Hingson ** 29:19
well, there you go. Something, something to figure out, right? Yes,
 
Freda Uwa ** 29:24
for sure. And I’ve always said it, it’s, it’s a continuum, like it’s a spectrum. So it’s, everybody’s just one life event away from a disability, right? So you never know until you until you find out. Well,
 
Michael Hingson ** 29:37
of course, people have heard me say on this podcast that actually, everyone has a disability. For most of you, it’s you’re light dependent. You don’t do well when there isn’t light around for you to see what you’re doing. And inventing the electric light bulb kind of led to a cover up of your disability. But it’s still there. It’s just that it doesn’t manifest itself very often. And the reason, I think it’s important. Important to take that kind of a view is that all too often, and I’d be interested in your thoughts on this, but all too often, when people think about disability, they think about, well, it’s called disability because it’s a lack of ability, and it isn’t really, but people think less of people who they regard as traditionally having some sort of disability, and the result is that they look down on or think they’re better than somebody with a disability. And I adopted the definition that we all have disabilities, they just manifest differently. In order to try to help start to level that playing field and get people to understand that in reality, we all have challenges, and we all have gifts, and we shouldn’t look down on anyone just because they don’t have some of the gifts that we do.
 
Freda Uwa ** 30:53
That’s a great way to look at it. Michael, I so in recent times in my work, there is this I’ve heard about social location, this phrase called social location, Michael, I
 
Michael Hingson ** 31:07
have not heard much about that. I’m not overly familiar with it, so go ahead, I can imagine. But go ahead. Okay,
 
Freda Uwa ** 31:13
so that’s like, exactly where you are on your social map. I would say, just to put it in a clear way, right? So it’s all of those identity markers that make you, right? You might think you don’t, you have it all here, but in the next high you’re you’re not as much privileged as the next person. So it’s being on different sports in that social map, right? So I could be, let the I could, I could not have a disability that I know, but in some way I’m I’m disadvantaged, right? So it’s all of that coming together and realizing that when we when we’re seeking for inclusion for all, it’s actually all. And the definition of all can be expanded to mean actually every single person, and not just people with stability. It’s every single person ensuring, keeping, taking into consideration that you are not always at the top all the time. You could be privileged in so many areas, and then you are disadvantaged in some area. So it’s that social location concept that should, that should inform our need to level the playing fields at all time.
 
Michael Hingson ** 32:31
Yeah, um, unfortunately, all too often, people won’t adopt that principle, and they won’t adopt that mindset. So they really think that they’re better than others. The unemployment rate among persons with disabilities is still very high compared to the general population. It’s still in the 50 to 60% range. And it’s not because people with disabilities can’t work. It’s that people who don’t happen to have those same disabilities think that people with those disabilities can’t work and so as a result, they’re never given the opportunity.
 
Freda Uwa ** 33:11
Yeah, that’s a constant struggle, for sure. Yeah, and that’s why we do what we do,
 
Michael Hingson ** 33:16
right, which is very important to do. So you, you, you work as the executive director, is the CEO of the organization. Do you do all the independent living centers, then do a lot of work with consumer organizations and other things in their local areas, so that they keep very close ties to consumers.
 
Freda Uwa ** 33:44
Oh, for sure, that’s the, that’s that’s the that’s the structure of innovative living Canada, right? So il Canada and il member centers are close to the local communities. So all il member centers are community based centers. So they’re, they’re in the communities and partnering with, partnering with local communities to meet any unmet needs for persons with disabilities. Okay, yeah, so, yeah.
 
Michael Hingson ** 34:15
So now you’re, you’re obviously more in an administrative kind of role, but what kind of involvement or or interactions do you have with like consumers and consumer organizations? That’s a tricky
 
Freda Uwa ** 34:29
question, right? So I I’ve only been here one year. Yeah, I understand. I can speak to the last 11 months, right? So so far with consumer organizations, I am only, only partnered in terms of a project or a research it’s still a project or project, right? So whether it’s but I feel like that comes from the centers as well, because my the independent living centers. You. Get us involved in partnerships that it’s just beyond them, right? So we get partnership partnership, and we need to standing as a national organization to get three or four of our IELTS member centers into that partnership. So that’s the level we play. More like we the go between and giving that voice to them. But generally I am more of the administrator than being involved in consumer agencies or organizations, right?
 
Michael Hingson ** 35:32
Yeah, no, I understand that’s I was just wondering if, if, if there is involvement, or how you ever get to interact with them, because I would think that working with consumer organizations in some manner can strengthen what you do as an organization.
 
Freda Uwa ** 35:51
Yeah, yeah, for sure, we’re still, we are open to partnerships, for sure, but it’s a process. It’s yeah, it’s a process, and then for sure, it’s what the local centers are needing, and that’s what we are doing at the national level, right? So it’s, it’s a, it’s a two way street with the local sense, local member centers. We are nothing without our member centers. So that, yeah, right,
 
Michael Hingson ** 36:13
right. No, I understand. Well, that’s that is still pretty cool, though, and it gives you, it gives you some freedom, and it gives you the ability to look at things from a higher level. But I would assume that it also gives you the opportunity, then to look at how you can work and make a difference in the whole independent living process around Canada.
 
Freda Uwa ** 36:39
That’s for sure. That’s for sure. There is work for sure, and that’s what we have started doing. So there’s a lot of traction happening right now, and just taking one day at a time and reviewing all our partnerships and building other collab partnerships and collaborating in other areas as well. So yeah, I agree. Yeah.
 
Michael Hingson ** 37:01
Yeah. Now, I didn’t say it earlier, but we met through Sheldon Lewis at accessibe. So I guess you have, have you looked at accessibe as a product, and are you working with Sheldon on that sort of thing, or, or, How is accessibe involved with the Independent Living Center movement in Canada, I
 
Freda Uwa ** 37:21
would say we are currently having that conversation right now. So, yes,
 
Michael Hingson ** 37:28
well, so, so at this point, you’re looking to see where it might fit and and how, how it would work. Yeah.
 
Freda Uwa ** 37:39
So we’re reviewing all of that. We are reviewing the product and going through the board and test running everything. So, yeah, so just reviewing, what, how that works, yeah.
 
Michael Hingson ** 37:49
So you’re actually, so you’re actually testing it and looking at it to see what it does and doesn’t do and so on.
 
Freda Uwa ** 37:55
Exactly, yes.
 
Michael Hingson ** 37:57
What about the whole concept, from your standpoint of Internet access and inclusion, the problem that we see overall is that in our world, maybe 3% of websites have really made an effort to put something on their site to make the website accessible or inclusive, but Most places still haven’t done that. How do we change
 
Freda Uwa ** 38:22
that? I think this is as it’s it’s still the whole package, about 31 step at a time, and I’m very careful, and I caution against tokenism and just wanting to do something because you want to check up the boxes, right? Yeah, what? What’s the intention? Really? Are you really concerned about your consumers, your customers, your clients? Are you really wanting to reach everybody, and everybody, right? So what does that look like for you? So I’m Yeah, it’s concerning, for sure, that we have such low percentage of people of websites who are looking into being more accessible and not just checking off one box, right? So, and it’s broad, it’s really broad because accessibility is it’s not just one thing, right? So internet accessibility for sure, it’s the next big thing. And at our planned AGM coming up here in September, we are, that’s the key, the the main theme of our of our meeting, it’s AI and the future of accessibility for all. So, yeah, so that is a good thing that you asked it, because we are looking to build a future where accessibility is second nature to everybody.
 
Michael Hingson ** 39:51
Someone said something once, and I think is a is a really wonderful thought to have, and that is that we a. All look forward to the day when we are so inclusive that access, or accessibility is a term that we forget and never have to use anymore, because it’s just so automatic.
 
Freda Uwa ** 40:12
I like that. I like that. That’s second nature, right? So we don’t have to think about it like this is what it is. It’s universal. It’s a universal design. This is right. Want to see, right? So, and again, like I said, it’s not you’re not doing it for them. It’s not an us, them conversation. It’s for all of us, because it’s one live event from one disability to the next. So it’s creating a world where everybody can thrive, and I empowered to thrive equally, right? Yeah, and
 
Michael Hingson ** 40:44
I think that is that is so important, and I hope that that day comes sooner than later, but I think it’s still a ways off, but I think it is one of those things to really strive for, because as as you and I have both talked about today, everyone has gifts. We all don’t have the same gifts, and no one should look down on anyone else just because we’re different in some way. And yet, unfortunately, all too often, we do, which is a problem.
 
Freda Uwa ** 41:20
Yeah, that’s right, Michael. And that’s, it’s really sad how the world has turned humans against humans. And that’s, that’s not the world we want to see. You know, I’ll tell you something that’s a renowned writer in Nigeria, Chimamanda dice, she spoke about the evil word for love. IBO is my local dialect, my native tongue, and the evil word for love, love is if unanya And that, what that literally translates to is, I see you, so Michael, if I love you, I see you beyond anything else. I see you beyond your abilities, beyond your color, beyond any other identity marker that defines you. I just see your soul. So sometimes I feel like we African language is not fully the English doesn’t do the English language doesn’t do justice to the weight of our native tongue, right? So that’s love seeing humans, seeing who you are, for who you are, nothing beyond that. So that’s really, that’s, that’s the world I look forward to having, for sure. And
 
Michael Hingson ** 42:36
it is so important that we all look at each other for who we are because one characteristic doesn’t define us, blindness doesn’t define me, your being from Nigeria doesn’t define you. It’s part of your experience, but it doesn’t define you, and it shouldn’t.
 
Freda Uwa ** 42:57
Yeah, right, yeah, absolutely, yeah. Then
 
Michael Hingson ** 43:01
we have politicians, and they’re all defined by what they do when we can pick on them. So it’s okay, that’s a smart move. But, but, but really, you know, it’s one characteristic or whatever doesn’t define us. It is part of our makeup, but it doesn’t define us. And I think that’s very important, that we really understand that we are the sum of everything that we do and that we are, and a lot of what we do and what we are comes from the choices that we make. And that’s why I really like unstoppable mindset, because it’s a podcast that really helps to show people who listen and watch that they are more unstoppable than they think they are, and what we really need to do is to bring that unstoppability out in everyone, and if it comes out in the right way, it also means that we learn how to work more closely with each other. And I think it is important that we start having more of a sense of community throughout the whole world. I
 
Freda Uwa ** 44:04
like that, Michael and I like your tie into the unstoppable mindset, like it’s in the mind. Yeah, the seed is planted in the mind, and that’s where it blossoms, and it’s all the environment you give to that seed. How are you cultivating your thoughts? How are you, what are you feeding your thoughts with, right? So, how are you accepting values and projecting values and all of that? So it’s in the mind. And so once the mindset is unstoppable, you can thrive, you can bloom, you can become, you can be established in every sphere that you choose. So that’s, that’s, that’s the goal, really so, yeah, that’s the unstoppable mindset for sure.
 
Michael Hingson ** 44:45
Yeah, it’s very important. And I think that we all usually underestimate ourselves, and we need to work on not doing that. We need. To demand more of ourselves about what we do, and if we do that, and the more of that that we do, we’ll find that we can go out of our what people call comfort zones, a whole lot more, and we’ll find that we can do a lot more than we think that we can.
 
Freda Uwa ** 45:17
Yeah, and I like that. And to your point, Michael, I also, I also feel like we also need to give ourselves credits for all of what we’ve been through. Yeah, keep yourself the the empathy, like, take time, take a break, recharge and come back right. Like I said, growth isn’t always linear. Sometimes you need to take those pauses and recognize that you need to stop, recharge and then go for it, right? So just give yourself credit for showing up. That’s it. That’s enough, right? You’ve shown up, that’s enough. You’ve done the step one. That’s enough. Show yourself some empathy, show yourself love, and that’s the way it radiates to people around you, for sure,
 
Michael Hingson ** 46:02
I like the idea of showing yourself love you should and and I mean that, and I know that you do as well. Mean it in a positive way. It doesn’t have anything to do with ego and thinking you’re the greatest thing in the world since sliced bread, but it is recognizing who you are and showing yourself as much as anything that that love is also a significant part of or ought to be a significant part of your life.
 
Freda Uwa ** 46:29
Mm, hmm, yeah, absolutely. And show up for yourself. Show up for yourself. Yeah, you can be so many things to so many people, but how about yourself? Right? Don’t show up for yourself and let yourself enjoy you as a person, right?
 
Michael Hingson ** 46:46
Well, I love to say, I used to say I’m my own worst critic, and I’ve learned that’s not the right thing to say. The right thing to say is I’m my own best teacher, because I’m the only one that can really teach me. And I think that’s so important to make things positive. And when something happens, it’s not so positive, figure out what the issue is and how to address it, but you, but you can do that. We all can do that. Yes, right? So I think it’s so important, and you can do that with
 
Freda Uwa ** 47:15
love as well, right? Yes, absolutely.
 
Michael Hingson ** 47:19
That’s a good one. So you do a lot of work in managing projects and so on. So what? How did you how did you get to be a good project manager? Because that’s part of, obviously, what you do. Was it something you were trained to do? You’ve picked up on. You have a natural talent for it?
 
Freda Uwa ** 47:35
Yes. So I’ve got training in project management. And of course, like it’s I did events management back in Nigeria. So it’s all of that, that training, the experience and, of course, natural talents to knowing how to manage people and little programs. So that’s built into the training that I also had. So yeah, it’s all of everything, a bit of everything, I would say,
 
Michael Hingson ** 47:58
What do you think makes a good leader. That’s a toughie, I know. Oh, right, Michael, you
 
Freda Uwa ** 48:05
don’t want to do this.
 
Michael Hingson ** 48:09
This sounds dangerous.
 
Freda Uwa ** 48:10
I know, right? So, yeah. So you know what I used to say? I try, I try to make people happy, right? But it’s a really difficult job to be a leader, really difficult one. But my concept of leadership is showing people how to follow. So my concept is building leaders right modeling the way for people to follow. So a good leader is a servant leader. They are listening. And you’re also wanting to build leaders, and that is giving empowering your following to do as you what you’ve done. So you’re showing them you’re doing it, and you’re ensuring that you’re leaving no one behind. So a good leader is leading and moving her team from behind. That’s my That’s That’s the summary of what I would say. But then that doesn’t always mean you’re making people happy, because I always tell I say this sometimes, that if you want to make everybody happy, you go sell ice cream, you don’t want to take a leadership role, because you you might hurt some people, for sure.
 
Michael Hingson ** 49:27
Well, I think also it’s important to to say that good leaders, and you, you mentioned it, train other people and teach other people how to be leaders. I think one of the most important things, and I always said it to every person I ever hired, was I didn’t hire you so I could boss you around my hiring you because you convinced me you could do the job I’m hiring you to do. But what you and I have to do together is to figure out how I can add value and. And enhance what you do. And that’s really a tricky and challenging thing, because it isn’t necessarily something that, as the official leader, if you will, is is best done by me. It’s oftentimes better done by the people I hire who observe me and observe all that goes on around us. And who will come and say, here’s how I think I can do better with your help, and here’s how I how I think you can add value to what I do. And you know, I’ve hired a lot of people who can’t do that. They can’t go there. They’re just not used to that kind of model. But I do know that the ones who who understand it and who accept it and who follow through on it, those people do really well, because we learn to compliment each other and their skills and my skills, which are different, but can coalesce together to mean that the sum of the parts, or the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, because we work together.
 
Freda Uwa ** 51:13
That’s right, Michael, that’s right. And you’ve said it right there. Like a good leader is only as good you as a leader, you’re only as good as your team, right? So you want to make the team work, right? So, yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s my view on leadership as well. What, what’s my team doing, and how am I supporting them to to thrive and become,
 
Michael Hingson ** 51:36
yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s really important, and I think that’s really a big part of leadership. Certainly, leadership has to motivate and and overall coordinate the efforts of what the team does, but the best leaders also know when to let someone else take the lead because they’ve got better skills in a particular arena or project than someone someone else does
 
Freda Uwa ** 52:05
absolutely, yeah, yeah, for sure. So,
 
Michael Hingson ** 52:09
in addition to being the executive director of independent living Canada, what else do you do? What are your other passions or hobbies, or what other kinds of things do you like to get involved in
 
Freda Uwa ** 52:22
alright, that’s fun. I am a red seal endorsed chef. So I cook. I love to cook. That’s my escape. I cook for family. I cook for friends. I’m involved in my local community here in Saskatoon, and my local cultural community. So all of that are the things I do, and more. So I am just about publishing my first book I started a long time ago. And so, yeah, I’m also an author at night. And yeah, so yeah, I’m excited about my book. It’s called Jollof life, and I’m excited for sure. Yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 53:04
when will it be published?
 
Freda Uwa ** 53:09
I don’t have a date yet, but I will, I will let you know soon enough.
 
Michael Hingson ** 53:14
So roughly, when do you think it will be published? Just, I mean, is it six months away, a year or three months or
 
Freda Uwa ** 53:20
I’m thinking, I’m thinking, six months away. Okay,
 
Michael Hingson ** 53:24
okay, cool. Well, that’s exciting. That’s exciting that you’re, you’re working on a book.
 
Freda Uwa ** 53:32
So do you know what Jollof is? Michael, no, what is that? Tell me. Let me. Let me coach you. So Jollof is it’s a dish in Africa. It’s, it’s a type of rice that is cooked into my tomato, tomato, tomato broth and meat stock. And it’s really, really flavorful. It’s red, it’s rich, and all of that. It’s so good that, like I have, I’m a caterer in Nigeria. I know I need to say that when I was in Nigeria, I was a caterer. So if you go to an event, you must have a stand for Jollof rice. So it’s really, it’s really that good that there is a saying in Nigeria that any party without Jollof rice is just a meeting, right? There you go. It’s, that is that good? So I call Jollof right, the queen of the buffet. So it’s, it has to be there. It just has to be there. And it’s so relevant that there is an online feud amongst African countries of Who makes the best job, right? So it’s, that good, right? So I took that idea and turned that into life. What’s what life that is, what makes you so relevant at what you do, and that’s why I’m I switched that around to Jollof life, right? Just standing out and being the queen of your life, or the. Of your life and owning that space and just being as relevant and and having to dominate your space. So I cooked through a part of the love, right, while writing that book, and I was expressing myself through the Arabs and the flavors and cooking life through that book. So that’s what the book is about.
 
Michael Hingson ** 55:18
Oh, that’s exciting. And it makes sense that that’s the title. And I kind of figured maybe that was sort of what it was when you said jolla life. But it makes, makes perfect sense, what’s your favorite thing to cook?
 
Freda Uwa ** 55:32
And now, now that you now that you know, then it’s Jollof. Of course. It’s chill off.
 
Michael Hingson ** 55:39
What’s your second favorite thing to cook. Oh,
 
Freda Uwa ** 55:42
pasta. Okay. I kind of feel like, I mean, earlier in my blood, right? So I love to cook pasta. That’s
 
Michael Hingson ** 55:52
pretty cool. Do you make your own pasta from scratch or,
 
Freda Uwa ** 55:57
Oh, I do. I do, yes. So I Buy store bought ones, but I also make mine from scratch too. Yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 56:03
I bet it tastes better when you make it from scratch though. Oh,
 
Freda Uwa ** 56:07
it’s so good. Michael,
 
Michael Hingson ** 56:10
that’s exciting. Well, and your book is coming. So what other things do you like to do besides independent living and and cooking or nutrition?
 
Freda Uwa ** 56:22
So, yeah, I’m, I’m involved in my local community, cultural community of women, so we are out dancing sometimes, and, you know, having local events. So that’s something else that keeps me busy in the weekend. And I love, I love that I’m still, I’m able to to connect with the my culture here in Canada as well. So yeah, those are the things I love, family. I love spending time with my family. That’s I’ve got men in my house and like that. I teach sometimes, and I say that I live with four men, right? So three of those are my boys, and one is my husband. So I take some time to have the boy time. So I’m also, I’m also, I suck myself in that as well. So I do some boy activities. So I, yeah, so yeah, that’s my, my downgrade.
 
Michael Hingson ** 57:13
But you gotta do some girl activities too.
 
Freda Uwa ** 57:17
That’s, that’s when I have my me time. Yeah.
 
Michael Hingson ** 57:20
What’s important to do? And the boys probably go off and do their things too. How old are the boys? Yeah, I’ve
 
Freda Uwa ** 57:27
got a 14 year old, an 11 year old and an eight year old.
 
Michael Hingson ** 57:32
Ah, so are boys? No girls, no,
 
Freda Uwa ** 57:37
none. Yet,
 
Michael Hingson ** 57:40
there’s another project for you. Oh, Michael,
 
Freda Uwa ** 57:46
whoopee, yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 57:48
I understand. No, I I appreciate that. It’s, it’s, that’s, it’s something, well, you have, you’ve had a lot of experiences. What do you think, or how do you think your overall life journey has made your mindset what it is.
 
Freda Uwa ** 58:09
Oh, boy, Michael, is I again, I said I spoke about growing and evolving. So that’s the mindset. I am not there yet, like I feel like I’m not there yet. Yeah, I’m still I’m still growing and involved evolving. So it’s just not being satisfied or settling for nothing short of the best. I don’t like to use the word perfection, but I want to keep going and keep pushing and getting better than my just growing and getting better than yesterday. Yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 58:46
going and growing. And that’s that’s important. Well, with that in mind, if you had the opportunity to do it, what would you go back and tell your 10 year old younger self? What would you tell that 10 year old Frida, and what and more important, if you told her, would she listen? But anyway, what would you tell her?
 
Freda Uwa ** 59:08
She was loud. For sure she was loud. I know she’ll be. She was hyperactive, so that I know, so I will let her know one step at a time you have made huge progress. You have made huge progress. I am so proud of you. I am indeed living your dreams, and I’m hoping that I have checked off most of the boxes that you’ve always wanted to do. So that’s what I would say to my 10 year old, Frida, and I hope that she listens to that.
 
Michael Hingson ** 59:46
Yeah, that’s the trick, of course, is with any of us is to to get the younger of us, or younger people in general, to listen all too often we just think we know everything, and it’s so difficult to get people to step back and. It’s one of the things that I think we really, collectively as a society, need to do a lot more of, which is at the end of the day, at the end of every day, step back. Think about what happened. How can you improve what happened? Even the good stuff, but especially the things that didn’t necessarily go as you planned. Step back and look at them and adopt a mindset that you want to teach yourself how to do it better, whatever it is that that is that has got to be a way that we can help get others and ourselves to listen more than we tend to do.
 
Freda Uwa ** 1:00:33
Mm, hmm, yes, for sure, and and looking to give back as well. Like, are you coaching and mentoring people. So, yeah, yeah. So if there are any freedoms out there, you can always reach out to people that would speak and leave seeds in your hearts of greatness, like see the good in every situation. Like I did, see a good in the conversation that I I heard about that lady or that woman at the time. So that is a good in every situation you meet, right? So you pick the seed that you want, you want, and then water it and nurture it to grow and grow, you always find,
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:01:13
yeah, and I think that we, we can do that. We can do a lot more of that than we tend to do, but I think it’s important that we we do our best. And you talked about servant leadership, and it’s as much about serving yourself and your soul as it is about being a servant leader to other people. Absolutely. And the thing that we never, well, I won’t say we never, but the thing that we don’t do nearly as much as we probably could, is listen to our own inner voice that probably has the answers we seek, if we would but learn to listen for them. Mm,
 
Freda Uwa ** 1:01:45
hmm, absolutely, yeah. And I like I like that to your point, serve yourself too, right? So for seven leaders, serve yourself. Listen to yourself, take those pauses, give yourself credit for all your hard work. And you know, sometimes you get that guilt when you want to spoil yourself. I’m like, Okay, this body made this money, right? So I need to take care of this body. So that’s, that’s, yeah, that’s, that’s a way to give yourself some credit, like physical treats, yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:02:17
yeah, physical treats. And not necessarily overdoing it, but physical treats and and mental treats too. This this weekend is a holiday in the United States, and I know that I’m going to take some downtime just to to kind of relax. I think it’s important that we all do that all too often when people go on vacations. I’m sure it’s true up there too, but it’s so true down here, they go on a vacation, they go somewhere, they do a lot of hiking and a lot of work, and when they come back from the vacation, they need a vacation because they work so hard.
 
Freda Uwa ** 1:02:51
Oh yeah, tell me about it.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:02:55
And it’s it’s important for us to learn to rest and let our, let our brains recuperate too. Let our, let our mind recuperate. But, you know, yeah,
 
Freda Uwa ** 1:03:06
it comes I, I needed that. I needed that for sure. It’s a long weekend here in Canada as well. Oh yeah, so I’m just going to unplug and take some downtime and recharge, right? So it’s needed for sure. It
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:03:21
is that’s that’s good. Well, you know this, this has been a lot of fun to do, and I’ve, I’ve enjoyed it, and I want to thank you for being on and I want to thank all of you who are listening to us and watching us. We really appreciate you being here. I hope that you’ve enjoyed what Frida has had to say, if people want to reach out to you and maybe talk with you in some manner or contact you, how do they do that? Hi.
 
Freda Uwa ** 1:03:47
Oh, so I’m on Instagram and I’m on LinkedIn, Freda Owa , and
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:03:53
yeah, is UWA, yes,
 
Freda Uwa ** 1:03:56
UWA, UWA. So that’s Frida or right on LinkedIn. And of course, you can reach out to IO Canada website and ask to speak to me. So, yeah. Well, cool. Well,
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:04:12
I hope people will do that. I hope that everyone has enjoyed all of all of our discussions and your insights today, if you did enjoy it, we would really appreciate you. Wherever you’re listening to us, give us a five star rating. We value your reviews and ratings very highly. If you’d like to reach out to me, you are welcome to do so. I’m easy to find. You can email me at Michael, H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, e.com, so I’d love to hear from you. If you know of anyone who you think would be a guest, that we ought to have an unstoppable mindset. Freda to you as well. If you know anyone who ought to be a guest, we want to hear from you. Just before we started this podcast, I received an email from someone who said, I got a great guest. You said, If. I found anyone that I should reach out, and I’m reaching out. I got this great person. So we hope that all of you will will do that, and that you will stick with us, and you’ll be back next week to listen to more of or our next episode, more of unstoppable mindset. We really appreciate your time and value the fact that you’re here. So once again, Freda, I want to thank you for being here. This has been a lot of fun, and we ought to do it again sometime,
 
Freda Uwa ** 1:05:28
for sure. Thanks for having me, Michael, and good luck, and very well done. Job with the unstoppable mindset.
 
**Michael Hingson ** 1:05:40
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.