Episode 316 – Unstoppable Freelancer Writer and Disability Advocate with Tyler Mills

Posted March 7, 2025

Tyler Mills grew up and lives in what he calls “rural America”. His home is about an hour outside Iowa City and is indeed by any standard not an urban environment. Tyler also happens to be a person with a disability: he has Cerebral Palsy and uses a wheelchair. He has a degree in Human Resources Management from Bellevue University.

Tyler, through his company Mills Marketing Services has spent his adult life working to advocate on behalf of persons with disabilities especially in the rural portions of America. Tyler and I talk quite a bit about Rural America which he points out is dying right in front of us. He feels that a significant part of the challenges faced throughout America, especially in the less populated areas, comes from our move away from politically moderate leaders. He points out that this is not a partisan situation. He writes about his beliefs in his book “Death of the Blue Dogs”. The book discusses the political changes we are facing in this country and how those changes are severely impacting the economic fortunes of people in rural America. Of course, he also ties in the ways political changes are negatively effecting persons with disabilities again especially in rural environments. “Blue Dogs” were and still are politicians with relatively moderate views who put community over personal gain. You will hear all about them during our conversation.

My discussion with Tyler is fascinating and far ranging as you can imagine. I think this episode will be quite thought provoking and I hope you enjoy listening to it.

About the Guest:

I am a freelancer writer, the owner of Mills Marketing Services and a 2022 graduate of Bellevue University with a degree in Human Resources Management, I have also worked in numerous national and local political campaigns. Political consulting is something that I am passionate about. I want to try to bring more people together o fix problems, instead of emphasizing our differences.

I am the author of the essay “Death of the Blue Dogs.” The book talks about the impact of the political changes in rural America, and how those recent changes have impacted the economic fortunes of the people that live there. Rural America has to get a realistic chance to win some of the venture capital resources that are out there to compete for economic development projects on a global scale.

I seek to be a voice for people with disabilities, particularly in the area of employment. There are still far too many barriers for the disabled when they seek employment, some of those barriers may have been unintentional when they were first proposed.

Ways to connect with Tyler:

https://www.lulu.com/shop/tyler-mills/death-of-the-blue-dogs-how-the-demise-of-the-blue-dogs-harmed-the-country-created-qanon-voters/paperback/product-42n9wy.html?q=Blue+Dogs&page=1&pageSize=4

Also available on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Death-Blue-Dogs-Explaining-Politics/dp/1312517646/ref=sr_1_14?crid=178TODTDMZ3TR&keywords=Blue+Dogs&qid=1690048552&s=books&sprefix=blue+dogs%2Cstripbooks%2C324&sr=1-14

Abe Books:

https://www.abebooks.com/9781312517646/Death-Blue-Dogs-Demise-Harmed-1312517646/plp

Locally at Burlington by the Book:

https://www.midwestbooksellers.org/independent-bookstore-directory/burlington-by-the-book

Mills Marketing Services Contact Page:

https://www.facebook.com/p/Mills-Marketing-Services-100063553481698/?_rdr

Twitter Account:

https://twitter.com/tmills43

LinkedIn Profile:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tyler-mills-93b14a24/

About the Host:

Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.

Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.

https://michaelhingson.com
https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/
https://twitter.com/mhingson
https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/

accessiBe Links
https://accessibe.com/
https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe
https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/

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Transcription Notes:

Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.

Well, hi everyone. I am your host, Mike hingson, and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset. We’re glad you’re here with us. We really appreciate you coming and spending a little bit of time with us. And today we get to chat with Tyler Mills, who I find to be an interesting soul. Why do I say that? Well, he is a writer, among other things, and I’m really interested to hear about his his book that he’s written. He’s a freelancer writer. He is also the owner of Bill’s marketing services, and he’s worked on a whole bunch of political campaigns and in the political world, and I’m really interested in talking about that. I’ve done some things around Washington in the past, and had a lot of fun doing it, and met some interesting legislators and Congress people and so on. But sounds like he’s done a whole lot more than I have, and I’m really interested to to get into that and and I know he’s very interested in talking about rural America, and we’re going to do that as well. So with all that in the background, Tyler, welcome to unstoppable mindset. How are you? Thank you, Michael. I’m doing great. Well. We really appreciate you being here with us. Why don’t we start as I love to do? Why don’t you tell us about kind of the early Tyler, growing up and some of that stuff? Yeah,

Tyler Mills ** 02:39
basically, I’ve grown up here in southeastern Iowa. It’s, I’m about an hour away from Iowa City, the University of Iowa, and it’s a really great community to grow up in. I actually live in Keokuk, Iowa. We’re right on the Mississippi River. Our main, our main industry, is a, you know, high fructose corn syrup. So it’s a, it’s not necessarily everyone’s favorite topic or favorite industry out there, but that’s what we mainly do in Keokuk, Iowa. And I’ve actually done a little bit of, you know, work with people that have developed websites for them and in the past. And that’s part of what I’ve done with Mills marketing. And then I’ve also, you know, lobbied for different causes regarding disability rights and disability employment issues around Southeast Iowa. So what got

Michael Hingson ** 03:37
you interested in dealing with disability rights and advocating as you do.

Tyler Mills ** 03:41
I I realized as I got into the workforce, so many people that are in similar situations as I am, they’re they’re either not getting the opportunities that or they’re afraid to break out and take those opportunities. I think it’s a situation where the system is not always as conducive to employment as it should be. I think that, I think that there are a lot of employers who would be willing to employ more people with disabilities, but they don’t know how to navigate the different barriers and parameters themselves. And I think they’re, I think they’re scared. I think they’re afraid that, you know, there’s going to be a liability on their on their in their facility, I you know there’s, there’s a lot of different

Michael Hingson ** 04:32
elements there, yeah. Do you have a disability yourself, a cerebral palsy? Okay, so that’s, are you and are you in a wheelchair? Or do you have that much CP? Or, yeah, I could

Tyler Mills ** 04:47
find a wheelchair. You are okay.

Michael Hingson ** 04:51
Well, my wife, for her whole life, was in a wheelchair. She didn’t have cerebral palsy. She had scar tissue on her spinal cord at the t3 level. So she was a t3 para, and we lost her in 2022 we were married 40 years. So as I tell people, and I will always say, no matter what anyone says, She’s monitoring somewhere. And if I’m not a good kid, I’m going to hear about it. So I gotta try to make sure I’m a good kid. Yeah, don’t want to get in trouble with her, you know. But anyway, and,

Tyler Mills ** 05:26
yeah, go ahead, I was just gonna say, I, I really, I in the in the last few years, I really started to look at the statistics dealing with employment amongst the disability community, and we’ve really made a lot of progress. And I don’t want to imply that we we haven’t made a lot of progress, because we have, but we’re still at around 23% of people with what’s classified as a disability under the ADA employment, which is not bad, 23% a lot better than I, better than I had previously been. But we really didn’t even start charting those statistics until 2008

Michael Hingson ** 06:02
right? So yeah, and I know the unemployment rate among employable blind people is still much higher than that, but still it is progress, and it’s not at the 70% where it was when I was growing up and in college and just going from college to the workforce. So we’re better, but we’re we’ve got a long way to go. And you know, why do you think that is? Why do you think that we still aren’t really in anywhere near the norm, like for people who don’t have traditional disabilities, people,

Tyler Mills ** 06:35
people are scared that they’re going to lose their health insurance by going out into the workforce. That’s that, I think, is the main barrier. And I think employers are scared to offer a full, certainly, a full health insurance package to someone that is disabled, and then if you make a certain amount of money, you no longer become eligible for the program. Or SSI, right? That you need to survive,

Michael Hingson ** 07:01
yeah, well, but the other side of that is that, typically, in a group health environment, disabilities aren’t supposed to be a factor.

Tyler Mills ** 07:12
You would like to think so. Well,

Michael Hingson ** 07:15
yeah, as I say, supposed to be what I guess. What I’m getting at is, if you look at the paperwork and you look at the rules of typical group insurance, disabilities aren’t included, that doesn’t they’re not an issue, but that doesn’t mean that they’re not but group insurance doesn’t measure directly whether you happen to have a disability or Not. Yeah,

Tyler Mills ** 07:40
it’s really, it’s really bad, because I find it, at least, I found in most states, we’re down to basically one giant insurer for almost every single state, at least it seems to be in, at least in my research. Maybe I’m wrong about that, but, you know, I do wish there were more options just anyone it was seeking private insurance so they could be, you know, as as self sufficient as they would like to be, yeah, basically we, you know, as as great as the Affordable Care Act is, in many ways, it’s still, it really hasn’t challenged the monopoly that we still have in the private insurance market. So,

Michael Hingson ** 08:19
yeah, yeah, yeah, and that’s why I was real specific in saying the insurance I’m talking about is company group insurance, which is a little bit different in a lot of ways than typical private insurance and life insurance, although none of us could get life insurance policies until the early to mid 1980s because insurance companies plane said we were a higher risk. And it took a major effort and enough consumers rising up to get state legislatures to pass a law that said that you can’t discriminate against persons based on a disability unless you can show actuarial statistics or evidentiary data. And nobody’s been able to do that yet,

Tyler Mills ** 09:07
which is wonderful, yeah,

Michael Hingson ** 09:09
yeah. Well, there’s a whole story I was very much involved in that. I actually led that fight. I was living at the time in Massachusetts, so I led that fight. But there, you know, there are other aspects of insurance that are still issues in a lot of the kinds of other insurance, other than life insurance that we would like, like health insurance and so on. You’re right. It’s, it’s, it’s still a major challenge, and it’s all really based on prejudice, though.

Tyler Mills ** 09:40
Well, I and I think that some employers also automatically assume that they could only get a half day out of us when we go to work. And depending upon how, you know, physically or mentally straining the work is, they automatically say, Well, I can only get a half day out of them, or maybe three hours. A day out of them, and what I think that we have a well, I mean, obligation is not the right word, but we, I am, during my time in the workforce, I’ve tried to prove some of these people wrong, that we that we can do a full day’s work, at least I and I’ve been blessed to be able to have that opportunity. So many people that would like to have that opportunity, I’m not, do not have the chance because, yeah, they face a lot deeper challenges than I do, right? Well,

Michael Hingson ** 10:30
and when I asked the question before about why is the unemployment rate so high, another part of the answer that I would give is, and it gets back to part of what you’re saying in a different way, but we’re not included in the conversation. We are left out. And you’re right. Employers and so many people make assumptions, and we’ve had things like sheltered workshops that have contributed to that, and a number of agencies around the country, so called rehabilitation agencies have contributed to that by not really being strong advocates. And the bottom line is though, that we really can work a full day, and for those people who physically may not be able to to do as much as other people would be able to do, it also may mean that what we really need to do is to look at what the right job for them would be, so that they could do as much work as anyone else. And that’s also a big part of it.

Tyler Mills ** 11:29
And we were struggling with my internet and we probably still are. That’s that’s another issue here in rural America. If you want to be able to work from home, you’re still going to be struggling your internet connection a lot of the time. So we’ve, we that was, Well, part of my book is about, uh, death of the Blue Dogs. I want to to people to understand what, what, regardless of your, whatever your politics happen to be, you should want access to the internet so people can can be, you know, working and be productive and be taxpayers, and, you know, feel good about their day. And there may be some people that don’t want to work, but in my, in my experience, I’ve always felt like work and the dignity of work has given me a purpose, as, you know, as made me just feel better about my day. And I I’m not that may not be for everyone, but it certainly has helped me. Well,

Michael Hingson ** 12:24
I would also point out or submit that maybe for some of those people who don’t want to work again, even there they may be prejudice and thinking they can’t work and so they don’t want to, and I’m sure there are some who just want to use the system, but I think there, there are a lot of people who haven’t learned to have the confidence to stand up and really fight for for their right To be in the workforce and in the system.

Tyler Mills ** 13:02
And another aspect of this is, I think at least within rural America, I think right now, our and within the country at large, I think the venture capital dollars are getting spent in they’re being too concentrated to one part of the country or the other. And if there was a way that we could convince people to spread that opportunity around a little bit better. I think that would be helpful as well. Yeah, I’m

Michael Hingson ** 13:27
sure, I’m sure that it would be helpful. Well, you mentioned the book. Tell me what? What are Blue Dogs?

Tyler Mills ** 13:34
Blue Dogs are a group of moderate to conservative Democrats, and I didn’t really want to write this as a partisan book. What I wanted to do is write this as a book saying rule America needs to elect legislators that care about their constituencies. They go out there and use and appropriate tax dollars to make sure that our roads are functional, to make sure that we have access to internet, clean water, you know, schools with top notch technology so we can learn everything that we need to learn about it with to be able to be competitive in a global economy. Because basically what happened the Blue Dog Democrats were started in the early 1990s as a response to what many people viewed as, you know, Bill Clinton being too liberal. And Bill Bill Clinton did. He did race raise some taxes on some people at the beginning of his administration. So basically, the there was a group of about 30 or 40 Democratic legislators who said, We’ve got to kind of create our own group, and it could sort of like find the middle ground between what they consider to be too liberal. And Bill Clinton and yet too conservative to to jump to the Republican caucus. So, so they basically said, we’re in the middle and we’re being squeezed blue. So that’s kind of where that term comes from.

Michael Hingson ** 15:13
Got it. You know? It’s interesting. I I grew up, went to college in the 1970s and so on. And I’ve been a member of the National Federation of the Blind since 1972 and I remember going to several national conventions and also being very involved in dealing with things in Washington. And while one party is more conservative than the other, what’s really interesting is that the emphasis on disabilities and supporting disabilities, at least to a degree, has shifted from the Republicans, who really were more champions earlier, but are much less so now, just because they’ve taken a completely different position about spending money and so on, but they’re not the champions in general. That is that that the Democrats are,

Tyler Mills ** 16:14
and I would like to see the Republican Party get back to that, because if they if they believe in self reliance and independence and making people feel good about having something to do in their lives and being as functional as they can be. This should. This is a non partisan issue. Yeah, not non ideological, because all you’re doing is you’re creating you’re creating jobs if, if someone with a disability can go out and become an entrepreneur and, let’s say, hire three to four people. You know that that really, it may not seem like much on paper, but it can make a big difference in a community. It really can. So I, I and I, I think that you can still have a sense of community and still be, you know, be a rugged individualist at the same time, and I unfortunately, maybe within the Republican Party, they kind of, right now, only want that rugged individualism. And I think in order to have a functional society, you have to have some sort of a sense of community as well.

Michael Hingson ** 17:17
Well, I I agree. I think there’s we’re losing a lot of of our sense of community, and we become so fractured as a society that it’s really difficult to talk and form community. And how do we get back to to that? How do we get back to people being able to share ideas, to have legitimate discourse? And also have different opinions, and people respect that, so we can discuss it and discuss them, but at the same time, we don’t just blast everyone because they’re different than we are. We get back.

Tyler Mills ** 17:58
We have to realize that our children go to the same public schools together. We still, we still go to the same churches. There’s still some people who still go to the bowling allies together. I social media and social media marketing is great. I’ve been in that industry for quite a while myself, but we’ve kind of used that technology to go into our own little corners, and we just kind of follow the road we want to follow, instead of considering other points of view, considering what other people in the community might think we just we kind of, at this point, want to hear what we want to hear, and I don’t know if we always consider it the other, someone else’s perspective. And many of the legislators that were defeated that I write about in my book death of the Blue Dogs, they were kind of those people that were, you know, kind of the cooling saucers of the Congress, and they would kind of consider those different perspectives, and that’s what I’d like to see us get back to as a society, not just as, you know, From a legislative, congressional perspective, but as a society, get, get, get that broader sense of community back, talk to each other again, because really, we still go to those same schools, churches, wherever you might line up, and hopefully we can start have that conversation again.

Michael Hingson ** 19:14
How do we get there? Though,

Tyler Mills ** 19:19
you have to realize that we’re all just human beings. And I think, I think we, in some ways, we’ve kind of like going, Oh, that that person listens to different music than I do. I must not like them. Just I don’t know where, I don’t know where we got off base to where it’s good where we go. Oh, that person has a different opinion than I do. I must hate them, I or I must at least dislike them, or not want to communicate with them. I think, I think, I think we just need to really we, we the society and media accentuate the differences. When I think. That even, even though you, Michael, have spent most of your time out in California, and I’ve spent my most of my time out in the Midwest, I think we’d find out probably quite a few things, regardless of politics or whatever, we’d have a lot of things just to communist, basic human beings. You know, well,

Michael Hingson ** 20:16
I’ve been fortunate enough to actually have lived in several places around the country and traveled to many more, and I love the richness of this country, and I appreciate the different environments, the different areas and the different points of view. And I think it is extremely important that we recognize that and that we respect it. But that sure breaks down in in our times right now, at least when it comes to politics, you can’t have a political discussion at all without somebody just flying off the deep end somewhere.

Tyler Mills ** 20:59
Well, yeah. I mean, if you, if you go to the cable news networks, they reward the people that are saying the most outlandish things, regardless of where one stands. The person that gets the most media attention is the person that says the, you know, the most sometimes unproven thing. And when you reward non factual behavior, or just straight up dishonest behavior that I think that encourages society as a whole to go in that direction. You know,

Michael Hingson ** 21:31
unfortunately we live in a country where, well, I won’t say unfortunately we live in a country that provides and allows for free free speech, but unfortunately, we do sometimes see that carried to an extreme, as you’re pointing out,

Tyler Mills ** 21:45
well, and I think, I think that they that for some reason we consider, right now we’ve got people, if you fact check someone, they consider it a form of censorship, yeah, and I don’t, I don’t think, I don’t think fact checking someone and saying, Hey, I have a different I have my research says differently than this. I’m offering this point of view. I don’t think that’s a form of censorship, but unfortunately, we’ve kind of gotten to that point where people think that that’s censorship

Michael Hingson ** 22:11
well, and it is unfortunate that we’ve seen a lot of that, and we we do see the whole idea of of fact checking, and some people just totally resent it. But the problem is they don’t want to do anything other than do as I say, not as I do. And that’s unfortunate too, exactly, exactly. Yeah. So it does make it quite a, quite a pain to deal with, needless to say. Well, so what do we need to do? I know you’ve sort of alluded to it a little bit, but what do we need to do to kind of bring rural America economically back more into the fold and than it is. You’ve you’ve

Tyler Mills ** 22:59
got to have people that don’t automatically assume that we don’t have the skills to get things done. I think, unfortunately, there’s a lot of stereotypes out there about people that then so these stereotypes are true, and we there. Life is about constant improvement, and if you’re not willing to make changes and see how you need to improve yourself, how you need to improve your community, then you’re not going to progress. But I think that there are a lot of people out there that look at rural America as you know well, they just they don’t understand their flyover country. They’re not willing to learn. And I think in my in my community, I think we are willing to learn. I think we are willing to get better, but we have to prove ourselves back. We have to prove that to other people. I was watching the Daily Show one night with Jon Stewart, and a lot of people enjoy Jon Stewart. Of course, he’s a very funny comedian, regardless of what your politics are. And he was making, he I, he was making fun of the state of West Virginia far too much. And if you know it was like, you know, he’s making fun of how they don’t, you know, their their teeth, and they don’t read enough. And it was just kind of like John, you you consider yourself someone who likes to highlight the plight of the working class from time to time, and then here you are, you know, kind of going off on these people who clearly need help, clearly need assistance, and they need jobs in their communities. And I wish that we would get rid of some of those stereotypes and stop saying some of those hateful things about each other, yeah,

Michael Hingson ** 24:42
yeah. And it’s and it is so true. Well, if you take West Virginia, for example, and I’ve read that, you know, there’s people there will drink a lot of soft drinks and so on, and their teeth aren’t great and all that. Um. And there are, there are issues like that, but there are also other factors that really cause some of that to be the case. Aren’t there? There

Tyler Mills ** 25:07
are, there are. I wish that that people would actually go to some of these communities more often. I wish that, you know people were able to travel more and to learn more about why, if you look at the history of West Virginia, Was it really the best place to even put a state you know that that’s that’s worthwhile to be so can you really blame that on the people that live there now, as far as economic development, as far as you know that, and we’re in a lot of these communities, smaller communities. They’re They’re controlled by one employer. You know, what a what? Once one, one employer gets locked into a community, they kind of dictate whether another employer can come in, because they’re afraid that their workforce, they’re going to lose their workforce if this other employer comes in and that that’s another the monopolistic practices or the, you know, I I’m not sure what the exact wording of it would be, but it’s certainly a controlling process for a lot of these communities, because they’re afraid to lose that One major employer, and then what do they have?

Michael Hingson ** 26:22
And they’re afraid to lose or they think they would lose their identity,

Tyler Mills ** 26:27
absolutely. And I I think work. And some people would disagree with me this. They would say, well, Tyler, you should just find more leisure time. Find more things with your leisure time, and not worry so much about work, but I think that the people that are encouraging a society without work are often some of the most successful people in society that don’t have to worry about it anyway. I worry that people, regardless of their politics, they figured the game out, they figured the world out. They know how to make money. They know how to, you know, pretty much get anything they want. And then they’re going to say, well, you know, just sort of Pat us on our head, right? And just sort of say, Well, you shouldn’t have to work anymore, or you shouldn’t worry about that stress anymore. And in some ways that would be a good thing, but in some ways, I need that stress. I need that challenge well,

Michael Hingson ** 27:23
and I think that’s the real operative part of it, it’s challenge. We as a as a race, tend to like challenge, whether we always admit it or not, we do. We like challenge, and we like to have things that we have to overcome. And for those people who have, quote, made it, that’s real lovely, but the problem is they tend to forget along the way what it took to get there. And the result, ultimately, is that they don’t really help people like they can to get other people to maybe work like they did, and get there as well. Yeah,

Tyler Mills ** 28:02
and AI and all these different forms of technology are going to be absolutely wonderful for so many people with disabilities. But we’ve also got to consider, you know, if you’ve got a bit of a cognitive disability, are you going to be able to catch on to this AI technology as quickly as you should? And are these and are these programs going to be, are there going to be funding for the, you know, to go to the community college in a smaller community where someone could learn how to use this technology better? I think that some of the some of the people that are creating the technology are not thinking of me in rural America, or other people in rural America that have disabilities, it may take us a little bit longer, and that it’s going to be, you know, might, we might pick it up four or five years down the road, but those four or five years are going to be rough, you know?

Michael Hingson ** 28:53
Well, yeah, and AI in general is so new that we really miss out on thinking in the more long term approach of what it will and can become. Of course, now we’ve got so many people who are going, Oh, it’s horrible. It’s going to take all of our jobs away. Kids are just going to use it to create all their papers and so on at school, so they’re not going to learn anything. And from my perspective, hearing those kinds of comments tells me you’re really missing it, and you’re you’re not recognizing the value that AI really brings to the world. So for example, for for for the classroom, if children are writing their papers and just letting ai do all the work, you may or may not be able to tell it when you’re grading the paper, but the thing to do is to maybe get creative and think about a little. Bit different way of teaching. For example, when you assign students to do a paper, and especially you’re concerned that they just may be letting AI write it, chat, GPT or something, write it, the easy thing to do is take one period of your class and have all of your students individually come up and take a minute and defend your paper, and you’ll know very quickly who really understood it and who used it all the right way or not.

Tyler Mills ** 30:34
Yeah. I mean, I mean, when I, when I was going through school, we would, you know, the teacher would kind of read the whole book to us, and instead of having us read out loud, and then, and then you, and then you graduate high school, and then you’re like, some of these kids can’t read. And then it’s like, well, where, where were you in the seventh grade checking to make sure that they could read?

Michael Hingson ** 30:56
Well, yeah, yeah, um, and I think there, yeah, I’ve had some teachers that all they did was parrot the book, which is not what a good lecturer should do at all. The book is the book, and the teacher needs to really add value to that process. And and that’s something that you don’t always see, which is also the case. My belief is that a good boss, if they’re really exercising leadership skills, a good boss, has to work with each person in their team and figure out how the boss can add value to make them more successful, rather than just focusing and telling them what to do and and not not being involved anymore. That’s not leadership Exactly,

31:46
exactly.

Michael Hingson ** 31:49
So I think it is important that you know we need to, again, look at all of that well. So it is. It is pretty clear to me that what you would really like to see us do is shift some of what we’re doing in our priorities, like in the political spectrum and so on, to be a little bit more moderate and not be one side or the other necessarily. How do we do that? We how do we convince people that we got to go back to a more moderate environment? We

Tyler Mills ** 32:20
look we look at people’s resumes. We look at we look at people who actually consider it different points of view. I back in 20, 2015 2016 I worked for a guy named us, Senator Jim Webb. He was from the Virginia and he was a Vietnam veteran, he ran as a Democrat for president, but he also served in the Reagan administration. And thing about Jim is, when I first met him, you know, basically in the past, so some candidates that I’d met were a little bit hesitant to work with me because of my disability, but because of Jim’s background as a veteran, and he dealt with people with disabilities before, he was very, very inclusive, very, very receptive to not only me, but also all points of view. And I think that if people honestly just want to take the time and listen to good, moderate people, regardless of whether they have an RD or anything else behind their name. Part of it is, I think, is our attention span. I don’t mean to be insulting the people by saying it’s an attention span issue, but I don’t think that they take the time to listen and say, Hey, this this individual is considering more than one side of the coin, more than one point of view? Yeah?

Michael Hingson ** 33:46
Well, yeah, it really gets down to you. Got to spend time thinking and strategizing and not just reacting and recognizing there’s more to life than just one opinion,

Tyler Mills ** 34:03
exactly i and that’s the thing about the the people in this book, they were, they, these were these were people that you know were getting votes from people that didn’t necessarily agree with them ideologically. But what they would do is they would take the time to listen to other people and to help people with their social security matters, or help people with, you know, making sure that their son was able to apply for that Pell Grant, or their daughter was able to apply for that Pell Grant. And so even though you didn’t necessarily line up with everyone on an ideological basis, a lot of people would still cast their ballot for them, and because they would actually do the work what a congress person is supposed to do, in my opinion, and like we were talking about earlier on Fox News or on any of the cable networks, I think that people again, are rewarded for being loud instead of doing the work of what a member of Congress is supposed to do. I.

Michael Hingson ** 35:00
Yeah, yeah. And it’s, it’s tough to get enough people together to to deal with that kind of vision. And so the result is that when you get, as you pointed out, people who may be a little bit more moderate, or people who want to really make contributions to society as a whole. They drop out because they feel like they’ve got just too many things stacked against them, and they’re just too many people who don’t want to listen.

Tyler Mills ** 35:31
Yeah. I mean, there’s a part of my book during the CNN debate and Anderson Cooper was questioning Jim Webb and some of the other candidates about the Americans with Disabilities, act and Senator Webb and made the point in the past about affirmative action, possibly not considering income enough as far as making sure that people had opportunities well. Anderson Cooper implied during that debate that Jim Webb was anti Ada and I kind of went I highly doubt many of these other presidential candidates have people on in wheelchairs, on their in wheelchairs and dealing with a lot of other disability related issues on their steps right now, working on their campaigns. And here’s Anderson Cooper telling me that my candidate might be anti Ada, and I was that just kind of it took me back, because I again, I think that it’s the responsibility of a journalist to actually dig deeper into someone’s writing, their what their public statements, everything about their as much as they can before they make some outlandish question or comment like that. And again, I think it’s, it’s just some of it is a lack of responsible journalism because you’re trying to get ratings. You’re trying to, you know, get the headlines there, instead of actually digging into the issues that people are going to need in order to be able to survive.

Michael Hingson ** 37:04
So you’ve talked about the Blue Dogs being involved in rural America on the question that comes to mind is, aren’t they just as important for the big city and non rural America? Yeah,

Tyler Mills ** 37:16
yeah. And that’s the thing is, back in the 70s, when, you know, when we people were trying to get the farm bill done, they would make sure that provisions were in there to, you know, create more farming opportunities in urban America. So there weren’t food deserts. There are food deserts in urban America too. And I think that when, when you elect people that don’t care about a farm bill, that don’t want to, they don’t want to earmark resources to a community, you know, they want to act like they’re just going to save money on this or that, when really, I don’t think there’s that much savings going on, because I think a lot, a lot of a lot of Countries are running debt. They’ve always been running debt. And I think it’s not that debt doesn’t matter. Debt absolutely does matter. But at the end of the day, if, if your people are living in a food desert, because the farm bill is not, you know, the resources there are not properly, you know, allocated, that’s an issue that’s far deeper than a than a structural, you know, spending deficit,

Michael Hingson ** 38:28
yeah, yeah. And we, well, we’ve, we’ve got to figure out a way to bring a little bit more sanity to the process. I guess we’ve, we’ve seen these kinds of cycles before, though, and the hope, and the hope is, over time, we’ll be able to see maybe the the cycle shift, and we bring a little bit more sanity into the whole structure. But it’s going to take somebody who’s a really strong leader, who understands that, who can make it happen? And I’m not sure that we are seeing any of that even today in society, we have two political candidates, and I think one is closer to that ideal than the other, but I’m not sure whether we have anyone who really is strong enough or sophisticated enough to outsmart and bring about the kind of changes that we’re talking about.

Tyler Mills ** 39:26
Well, the thing that frustrates me, and one of the things that frustrates me, is that some, some of these people that that were that were elected to Congress, are now seeing their communities die out. That they’re, they’re they’re losing population. You can, you can look at the statistics. These are not made up statistics. These are proven statistics that that all a lot of these rural communities are losing population and alarming rates, and yet, you these people are continually getting rewarded by getting elected again and again. Wouldn’t they want to see their community? Grow? That’s my question. Maybe I don’t want it seems like a false way of thinking here, because a lot of these communities are dying out, and yet you’re getting rewarded by getting re elected or given a higher position in some sort of organization. And I’m like, You are losing population in your community at an alarming rate, and yet you’re bragging about getting, you know, whatever you think done to me, you would want your community to grow and prosper? Well,

Michael Hingson ** 40:31
I would think so. But again, what we find is people’s priorities are a little bit different than than I think what we would believe would be the ideal, yeah,

Tyler Mills ** 40:44
and it’s, it’s, it’s frightening, because, you know, I the goal of of any, any society, it should be to help as many people as you can reach their full potential. Yeah? And if, and if rural America and in parts of urban America, absolutely, if they’re not getting resources allocated to them, there’s always so much you can do completely on your own in this world, in my opinion, and without that sense of community, I think a lot of people are being left behind, and it’s just it’s extremely unfortunate.

Michael Hingson ** 41:18
Do you think that we’ll be able to see a shift, and we’ll find more moderates coming back at some point,

Tyler Mills ** 41:25
we have to find a way to punish the media for what they do. They they encourage just out. They want people to start yelling. They want people to start yelling at each other. It’s like, it’s like a professional wrestling match. Michael, it’s not like, you know, we basically got talk radio on in the halls of Congress now. Instead of, instead of saying, Hey, you’re a human being, I’m a human being, I have constituents. You have constituents. We literally have members of the United States Senate, you know, threatening union leaders saying you want to fight, you want to have a fist fight, you know, yeah.

Michael Hingson ** 42:09
And well again, what do we do to change all of that? And you’re right, the media is certainly a part of it. One of the things that really frustrates me is that we have these things. When candidates for president, for example, get together, they call them debates, but they’re not debates. No, I’m not sure. I don’t remember the Kennedy Nixon debate, and so I don’t remember whether it really was a debate, but I bet it was closer to a debate than anything that we see today, because we’re not really seeing any kind of good, real, legitimate debate discourse. No,

Tyler Mills ** 42:54
it’s, it’s sound bite after sound bite and attack line after attack run, and the questioning, the questioning is set up that way, and it’s and I understand why they do it, because they want viewership. They want people to be talking about, oh, this candidate said this tan. And now we’re going to talk about it for the 24 hour news cycle, and then we’re going to move on to the next news cycle. Instead of having a substantive debate where people can discuss issues and actually solve, you know, internet connectivity in rural or parts of urban America, we end up with a debate over I, you know, whatever the you know, space lasers or whatever you know so well.

Michael Hingson ** 43:40
And the other part about it is that, I think, in reality, with a legitimate, real debate, you would have just as much to talk about, and would still allow for all of that to happen. Yeah,

Tyler Mills ** 43:52
yeah. So maybe, again, maybe it’s maybe they need to give more air time to it. But again, that attention span that I think partly, personally, because of technology and the way things have changed. For better or worse, people don’t have that attention span anymore, and I’m just as guilty as anybody so

Michael Hingson ** 44:13
they don’t have that attention span. I hear people talking all the time about making videos to put up on YouTube or whatever, and I am told constantly it’s got to be 30 seconds, because people won’t pay attention for any longer than that. Yet, what content can you really do in 30 seconds?

44:33
Nothing, nothing,

Michael Hingson ** 44:37
or very little of any substance anyway, which isn’t to say that you want to have a video that’s 15 minutes or a half hour. It’s got to be something that that makes sense. You got to keep people’s attention, but I have yet to see if you do it the right way, where you can have a five minute video that keeps. That doesn’t keep people’s attention, if you do it, right?

Tyler Mills ** 45:03
Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I all listen to a good podcast. I mean, you know, like, just like we’re doing right here, and you know, if it really gets my attention, I’m gonna, I know, and then I’m gonna come back for more, you know. And I think people hopefully, you know, hopefully they enjoy that sort of thing still, and, you know, really embrace it. I hope, I certainly hope so.

Michael Hingson ** 45:23
We have typically made these podcasts an hour long, and I’ve had the opportunity to be interviewed on a variety of different kinds of podcasts, and I’ve been lectured not about mine so much as other people say, Well, no one’s going to listen to a podcast if it’s an hour long. That’s why we only make ours 15 minutes, or 20 minutes, or at most, a half hour, and yet, when they ask questions, they they don’t really ask questions, much less do it in a way that creates content and does does what they really ought to do, even If it’s only a half hour long.

Tyler Mills ** 46:00
Yeah, I, I, I think, I, I wish that content could be more substantive. I think, I think you’re spot on about that. No doubt about it. So, yeah,

Michael Hingson ** 46:16
so what we have, we have seen changes come about, although sometimes it isn’t, perhaps in the ways that we ought to I mentioned earlier sheltered workshops, and there’s been a big battle in the blindness system about the fact that all too many rehabilitation agencies and other entities push so many blind people into sheltered workshops, and those workshops have a way where they don’t have to pay even minimum wage, and they’ve played some really strong games with that, but there’s been a lot of visibility about that, and so a number of those shops have actually changed their model. But what do we do again to get the Congress to really deal with it? Or, you know, or is that asking the same question we’ve asked so many times already during this conversation? You know,

Tyler Mills ** 47:15
I think, I think it’s up to the private sector. I think the private Congress right now is at a standstill, and I think that they prefer their permanent stand. So I, I’ve spoken to HR professionals, and my degree is actually in the human resources. And a lot of these HR professionals are not aware of the different programs that are out there, and then they’re not aware of the tax credits. Yeah, it’s not, it’s not that they’re not well, it says they’re not willing to learn. I just don’t think that was part of their program. I’ve worked at a call center now. You know, for over eight years, I’m still, obviously, there are all kinds of disabilities out there, but I’m still the only person in a wheelchair out after over eight years. And I don’t know if I hope it hasn’t been my own performance that has discouraged them from hiring other people with disabilities, but because that really would upset me, but it would, it would, but I, I You would think that someone else would have come across the line during the time I’ve been out there, because, Like, even when I got out there, they’re like, they’re like, you’re the only person in wheelchair I’ve ever ain’t out, you know? And they, they’d been working for other call centers before, and I was like, this is call center work. This is one of the most obvious things that people like me can do, yeah, and

Michael Hingson ** 48:35
it’s and it’s easy, it doesn’t require an incredible amount of physical labor. And there are actually some good technological ways that a blind person could do that. It does take, it does take some some additional kinds of things, given the typical call center software, but the technology is there to do that today.

Tyler Mills ** 48:58
Yeah, I, I don’t know if you’ve ever had the chance to work with different call centers about that kind of technology, but apparently some of them still need to help. So

Michael Hingson ** 49:07
oh, they do. I know of some mine, and I’ve I’ve dealt with some that actually have put the effort into it, but still, I know what you’re saying. But then it gets back again to the whole idea of we’re not included in the conversation. And I think that mostly when it comes down to dealing with people with disabilities, we don’t think about it that way. We don’t think about we’re not included in the conversation, and we don’t necessarily really deal with that. And when I’m talking about the conversation, why isn’t the President every time he, or possibly in the future, she, is talking about one thing or another that they don’t just talk about race and gender, they also automatically include people with disabilities and. Use examples. We’re not included in any of those conversations.

Tyler Mills ** 50:04
Well, I think, unfortunately, we’re, we’re given absolutely necessary social programs there, you know, disability benefits, Medicaid, different things are absolutely necessary for survival. But I think people just sort of like, make sure that their tax dollars go to that, and then they don’t think, they think, well, we it’s not that they think we’ve done enough, but they think that, you know, well, we are making sure that these people are able to stay alive, and maybe in their minds, that is enough. But for for you and me and other people that think about this on a deeper level, we want more, and are we being selfish? I don’t think so. You know, yeah,

Michael Hingson ** 50:47
well, so we’ve talked a lot about work. Does society value work? Is that changing?

Tyler Mills ** 50:53
I don’t, I don’t think so. And as much as I embrace new forms of technology, I think that there’s some. I think a lot of our drug problem, and particularly in rural America, is because you don’t, you don’t have some of those. You’re not giving some of those menial labor jobs to the regular working class anymore. You’re letting the technology do which is fine if you want to let the technology do it. That’s completely your prerogative and your perspective, do you know to just sort of move, you know, the self checkout thing, and that’s that’s fine if companies want to go that route. But I think at the same point, there’s a value to getting that person who may have been struggling in life, to get them to add a local grocery store, be at a Costco, or whatever the case may be, instead of, you know, having a self checkout, you know, it does, it does it hurt a company’s bottom line? Absolutely, in many ways it does. But I think that we’ve lost a sense of that. Yeah, no purpose of work,

Michael Hingson ** 51:55
yeah, well, um, and you, you, you cut out a little bit. So maybe you can repeat some of that, because you cut out for a few seconds.

Tyler Mills ** 52:04
Yeah, the internet’s going out, like we were talking about earlier, just again about how I think, I think it’s important to still have part of that is the loss of the sense of the community is because we don’t we use the technology now that it can be very, very helpful. But at the same time, if you give that job to a person who was previously struggling and not able to make find their way in life, maybe struggling with a fentanyl or struggling with some sort of drug related issue, now that they can have a job, they feel better about themselves, they can get a paycheck and be it be a larger part of society. Obviously, we’d rather have them, you know, getting an advanced degree and moving on to that larger scale to scale job. And hopefully they would be able to do that in the future. But I think society doesn’t value, you know, having a someone to check out your groceries or someone to, you know, wash your car or mow your grass, or some of the menial jobs that are going to be eliminated here in the future, and in many cases, have been eliminated now. So we’re as beautiful. Technology is going to be great for us. It’s going to work in so many great ways. But we also don’t look at the other side of the coin enough either. Well,

Michael Hingson ** 53:30
the other side of that, though, is let’s take self checkout here in California, for example, when you talk about if you have to hire somebody, does that affect the bottom line, it does. But what we’re also discovering is that self checkout is affecting the bottom line because there are too many people who cheat that system, and the result is that they they’re able to get out without paying for everything or whatever. So their their challenges, all around and again, what I’m hearing you say, and I think there’s merit to it, is that what we’re really not doing is representing enough the value of giving people the opportunity to have jobs and encouraging them. And the companies aren’t tending nearly to be as loyal as they used to be for people and working. And you’re right. They’re going to technology and everything else, and they’re not being loyal like they used to be. You don’t see the same loyalty. Hence, people move so often from one job and one company to another job and another company.

Tyler Mills ** 54:45
Yeah, when you have people in the investing in your company, they’re just looking at the profit at the end of the quarter. They don’t look at the you know, they see that profit in their stock portfolio, which is fantastic, because, well, anybody should be able to play the stock. Could do whatever they want, but again, if Walmart turns a massive profit by eliminating 1520, jobs, if they’re different operations, what kind of larger impact does that have on a local community? And that’s that’s a question that should be asked. Now we might come to the conclusion that that’s overall a good thing. I I don’t come to that conclusion necessarily, but I think, I think it’s a conversation that needs to be had

Michael Hingson ** 55:29
all the time, and it’s like anything else. How do we get that conversation to occur more often?

Tyler Mills ** 55:36
Well, I think, again, I think we’ve kind of lost our sense of I don’t, but when I, when I was growing up, I think that people were just nicer to each other. I and I, I don’t know if it’s because people just think they can say whatever they want to each to each other, yeah, now, now that we’re behind the keyboard, or we can just be agree or disagree. We should never be as just unkind and be calling each other stupid and uninformed? And you know, we need to consider all different perspectives as much as we can. Yeah,

Michael Hingson ** 56:09
you know, we we should, and I really would love to see a world where we could have a lot more discussion without somebody becoming offended, because discussion is always valuable if we really have a discussion, and can if going back to using that term debate something. But you know, so do you think more people with disabilities ought to move and be involved in more rural America? Would that be a beneficial thing?

Tyler Mills ** 56:50
I think would be beneficial. I think if we there are a lot of extremely compassionate people here. I think that just because they people assume, just because a certain community starts to vote a certain way, that they’ve lost their compassion. I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. I think you’ve got a lot of compassionate people here who who love, who love, to help other people. They’re not necessarily voting the way. They’re not actually voting their values. They’re extremely compassionate people, but they’re not voting that way. So then people who are voting the opposite way assume that they don’t care. I think it’s a lack of information. I think we’ve got we’ve got as much information as we’ve ever had at our fingertips. I don’t know if we’re actually on a search for knowledge within that information, you know? So, yeah,

Michael Hingson ** 57:47
we, we don’t know how to search. We don’t know how to or, oftentimes it seems like we don’t want to get that information, because it, it, it’s the the usual, don’t bother me with the facts, and that’s unfortunate.

Tyler Mills ** 58:06
And I also worry about, you know, a lot of these bigger banks and bigger companies are able to swallow up the smaller banks in the smaller communities, and so the, again, the capital dries up. The that’s that’s really important. I I don’t understand completely why, why some people who would consider themselves more conservative aren’t worried about anti trust laws if they truly want those rural communities that they represent to survive. The reason why I wrote this book is because I see, again, I see a lot of people who are who are elected to represent rural America, are letting it die out, and I do not understand why that’s and that’s what I tried to explore in the book. And it just it. It boggles my mind. And I could write 15 books on it, and it would still make me go, Hmm,

Michael Hingson ** 59:00
well, your voice still needs to be heard out there, and people need to hear I think what you’re saying, it’s, it certainly isn’t a very relevant and valuable viewpoint. And we’ve, we’ve got to get to the point where we can have good discussion and good interaction with each other. We’ve lost the art of conversation all the way around.

Tyler Mills ** 59:26
Yeah, it’s, it’s because we we text each other and we message each other and and shorthand, and we don’t really, I don’t think we have those same kind of full length conversations that we used to have.

Michael Hingson ** 59:37
One of the things that I do regularly when I’m looking for speaking opportunities, and I’ve looked at some databases, and I will send out emails and talk to people about becoming or hiring me to be a speaker. I love it when somebody responds to me, and even if they say I’m the. Right person. We’re not doing anything right now, but they leave a phone number because I think it’s so important to be able to reach out to people on the phone. Email is so insensitive, and texting, of course, is there’s nothing like communicating with someone on the phone. And I know that a lot of times I’ve been able to get speaking engagements because I was able to actually have a phone conversation. And some people have gone so far as to say, most people don’t call me. I really appreciate the fact that you called me and took the time to to let me get to know you better, and whether we have anything right now or not, isn’t the issue, but thanks for at least initiating the phone call.

Tyler Mills ** 1:00:47
Yeah, you you can talk about why you care about a project more. You can really go into detail as to why you know this. Do you think that this particular situation, whatever you’re working on, would would really help benefit everyone involved in a text message. I don’t think you can necessarily lay out that kind of emotion, you know, you

Michael Hingson ** 1:01:09
certainly can’t lay out the emotion. Yeah, yes, it is just, isn’t there? Well, Tyler, this is really been a lot of fun. We have spent an hour doing it, and I have no problem with that, just okay. So I really appreciate your time, and I think I really thank you for being here, and I want to thank you all for listening. This has been a lot of fun, and I hope that you’ve enjoyed it, everyone out there listening and watching us, I hope you’ve enjoyed it, and that you will let us know what you think. Please feel free to email me. Michael, H, I m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, e.com, and we’d love to hear from you. We’d love if you whenever you’re listening or wherever you’re listening. If you give us a five star rating, please rate us Tyler. If people want to reach out to you and interact with you more, how do they do that? They

Tyler Mills ** 1:02:07
can find me on LinkedIn, Tyler mills. Type in Tyler Mills, Mills, marketing services. You also my book is on lulu.com that’s where I get the most money for it, to be honest, amazon.com wonderful site if you want to get it there, but I only get 37 cents on Amazon. But so if, if you can go to lulu.com death of the Blue Dogs, Tyler Mills, if you want to learn more about my book, any, any of the projects that I have to do with Mills marketing services, you could find me on LinkedIn. You can find me on Facebook. Mills marketing services. I’m I’m available. I got my phone number, email everything, so I’m good to go. Cool.

Michael Hingson ** 1:02:46
Well, we put links in the cover notes as well, so the show notes, so they’ll be there. So again, I want to thank you all. I really appreciate you, Tyler, taking the time. And if you know of anyone else who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset. And for all of you out there, if you know anyone who you think ought to be a guest or might be a good guest, I want to hear about it. We’re always looking for people who want to come on and tell their story and talk about what they do. So please, by all means, refer people to us. I think it would be great. And we would love to talk with them and explore them coming on the show. So once again, I want to thank you, though all for being here. Tyler, I want to thank you for being here. This has been fun.

Tyler Mills ** 1:03:29
Thank you for the opportunity. Michael, I really enjoyed it. Thank you for letting me speak to your viewers.

**Michael Hingson ** 1:03:40
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.