Episode 310 – Unstoppable Network Expert with Daniel Andrews

I met Daniel Andrews through someone who has been monitoring Unstoppable Mindset and who told me that Daniel would be an interesting guest. How true it was. Daniel is a South Carolina guy born and bred. He makes his home in Columbia South Carolina. While in college he took a summer job with Cutco Cutlery after his sophomore year. I guess he liked the position because he stayed with Cutco for 15 years in sales positions.
 
While at Cutco his mentors introduced him to the concept of personal development. As you will see, he is widely read on the subject and he also learned to put his book learning to good use.
 
In 2013 he made the move to becoming his own boss and developed a true entrepreneurial spirit that still drives him today. He helps clients grow their businesses by seeking real quality contacts. He tells us that his goal is to introduce clients to 72 or 120 clients per year. As Daniel points out, a network of thousands of people is not nearly as effective as a smaller network of persons with whom you develop real credible relationships.
 
Daniel offers many wonderful and relevant tips on relationship and network building that I believe you will find useful. And, if you want more, Daniel provides his phone number at the end of this episode so you can reach out to him.
 
 
 
About the Guest:
 
Daniel grew up in Columbia, South Carolina after his dad moved from active duty USAF to reservice duty, in 1976. He attended college in Atlanta Georgia, where he took a summer job with Cutco Cutlery after his sophomore year, in 1988. His mentors, Ray Arrona, Ken Schmidt (RIP), Earl Small, and Don Freda introduced him to the concept of personal development, and his early career (the “summer job” lasted 15 years) was influenced by the writings of Zig Ziglar, Og Mandino, and Dale Carnegie.
 
He moved to St. Louis, Missouri in 2003 with his first wife, and switched careers.
In his second career, a mix of B2B and B2C, he was influenced by  the writings of John Addison, Harland Stonecipher, and Jeff Olsen, encouraged by his mentor Frank Aucoin.
 
After his move to Houston, Texas, in 2013, he decided to become a true entrepreneur, and not just an independent contractor. The E-Myth Revisited, by Michael Gerber, Quench Your Own Thirst, by Jim Koch, and Profit First by  Mike Michalowicz were instrumental in making this jump, and he’s currently engrossed in Super Connector by Scott Gerber and Give & Take by Adam Grant, as he builds a business based around showing people how to identify, find, meet, and grow relationships with a handful of key referral partners, to make sure there is a steady pipeline of 72-120 warm introductions to ideal client prospects every year.
 
He’s been married to Adina Maynard since July 5th, 2019, after he returned to his hometown in the fall of 2016.
 
 
Ways to connect with Daniel:
 
Other handles:
DanielPAndrews@outlook.com
Pinterest link:
https://www.pinterest.com/danielpandrews/
 
Daniel Andrews’ personal FB link:
https://facebook.com/danthemanwiththeplan1967
 
Daniel Andrews LinkedIn URL:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/niasoutheast/
 
FB link – business page
https://facebook.com/danandrewsnia
 
My video platform
https://events.revnt.io/cutting-edge-business-coaching-llc
 
About the Host:
 
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.
 
Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.
 
https://michaelhingson.com
https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/
https://twitter.com/mhingson
https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/
 
accessiBe Links
https://accessibe.com/
https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe
https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/
 
https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/
 
 
 
Thanks for listening!
 
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Transcription Notes:
 
Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.
 
 
Michael Hingson ** 01:21
Well and hello everyone. This is Michael Hingson, your host for unstoppable mindset. We’re glad you’re with us today, and really glad to have the opportunity once again to be with you and talk about all sorts of different sorts different kinds of things, as we do every week. That’s why we call it an unstoppable mindset, where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet, because unexpected is much more fun. Keeps us all on our toes. Our guest today is Daniel, and would like to welcome you to unstoppable mindset, and we really appreciate you being here. Yeah,
 
Daniel Andrews ** 01:58
it’s good to be here. Happy to participate. And really, I’m honored by the fact that you invited me to be here. So thank you for that. Well, we
 
Michael Hingson ** 02:05
made it. It’s It’s been fun, and we, we got introduced through Noah, who, I guess, does publicity for you.
 
Daniel Andrews ** 02:19
He and I have talked about that at some point. I’m trying to remember the entire chain that got me to you. You know, the person introduced me to him, to her, to him, to her, to him, to her, to you, right? I need a family tree of an introductory tree on my wall over here. I just keep up with all the connections. Yeah?
 
Michael Hingson ** 02:38
Keeps you alert and keeps you alert, you know, yeah, for sure. Well, I really am glad that you’re here. And Daniel has a, I think, a great story to tell. He lives in Columbia, South Carolina, which he’s really mostly called home, although he was born elsewhere, but sort of since roughly a fair, well, a fairly short time, he moved to Columbia and has been there. So I won’t go into all those details. We don’t need to worry about him, unless he wants to tell them, but Columbia has been home most all of his life. He did live a little ways, a little while away from Columbia, and on that, I’m sure we’re going to talk about, but nevertheless, Columbia is home. I’ve been to Columbia and enjoy it, and I miss South Carolina sausage biscuits. So I don’t know what to say, but nevertheless, one of these days, I’m sure I’ll get back down there, and the people I know will make some more. But meanwhile, meanwhile, here we are. So why don’t you start by telling us a little bit about kind of the early Daniel, growing up and, you know, all that, just to give people little flavor for you, sure,
 
Daniel Andrews ** 03:46
older brother two years older than me, exactly. I mean, within a couple days of two years, we’re the only two no other siblings. Dad was an Air Force fighter pilot, and people think that must be pretty cool, and at some level, it is. But to help frame it better and give you a better detail of the experience of being the son of a fighter pilot, I encourage people that I talk to to remember the movie Top Gun. Not the second one where everybody was a good guy, they were older and more mature and, you know, but in the first one where there was the good guy that was a jerk and the bad guy that was a jerk, but they were, they were both jerks. And you know, it’s a weird environment to grow up in when the biggest compliment one man can pay another is you don’t suck that bad, right? That’s literally the biggest compliment they’re allowed to pay each other. So I grew up always thinking like I was coming up short, which has got some positive and some negative attributes. My clients love it because I tend to over deliver for what I charge them, but it kills my coach because he thinks I’m not I’m not fairly pricing myself in the marketplace, but I it made me want to be an entrepreneur, because the benchmarks are clear, right? You? In a sales environment, you know whether you’re ahead or behind. You know what you got to do to catch the number one guy or gal if you’re trying to beat the competition, you know how big your paycheck is going to be if you’re working on, you know, commission or base, plus commission and and I really enjoyed the environment of being, I don’t want to say competitive, but knowing that, you know, I was competing with myself. So many of my friends are employed by academia or small companies or big corporations, and even when they benchmark really good results, the pay, the compensation, the time off, the rewards, the advancements aren’t necessarily there. So I really like the idea of having a very specific set of objectives. If I do this, then that happens. If I work this hard, I get this much money. If I achieve these results, I get, you know, moved up into into more authority and more responsibility, and that really made a world of difference for me, so that that has a lot to do with it. And as a result of that, I’ve opted for the self employment
 
Michael Hingson ** 05:54
certainly gives you lots of life experiences, doesn’t it?
 
Daniel Andrews ** 05:58
It does. And I think, I think that people that work for other people is certainly learn, learn a lot as well. Meaning, I’ve not had to have extended co worker relationships or manage those over time. My first wife was fond of saying that Daniel’s good in small doses, right?
 
Michael Hingson ** 06:15
So here we are, Ayan, so you’re, you’re telling us a little bit about you and growing up,
 
Daniel Andrews ** 06:22
sure it just you know, father is fighter pilot, right? And always pushing me to do more, be more. And that led me to choose a route of self employment, usually as a in the early parts of my career, independent contractor for other people. So I still had a structure to work in, but I knew what my objectives were. I knew how much money I would earn if I produced X result. I knew what it meant to get more responsibility, and that worked well for me. And then about eight years ago now, I decided to become a full fledged entrepreneur and really do my own thing and create some fun stuff. And it’s been a fun ride in that regard, but I do love the freedom that comes from setting my own objectives on a daily basis. Yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 07:07
there’s a lot to be said for that, and then not everyone can do that, because it does take a lot of discipline to be an entrepreneur, to do the things that you need to do, and know that you need to be structured to do the things that that have to be done at the same time. You do need to be able to take time off when that becomes relevant. But still, it does take a lot of discipline to be an entrepreneur and make it work successfully,
 
Daniel Andrews ** 07:35
right? And I don’t know that I’ve mastered the discipline for it, but at least I’m working on my objectives and not somebody else’s. The only person I’m letting down is me. You know, when I, when I, when I miss a deadline or don’t execute, so that feels better to me than having the weight of somebody else’s expectations on me
 
Michael Hingson ** 07:52
counts for something, doesn’t it? I think so well. So you, you grew up in Columbia, but then you went off to college. Where’d you go to college?
 
Daniel Andrews ** 08:02
Down in Atlanta, Georgia, small school there. But I had a choice of three places, and each of them had offered me scholarship funds that equaled the same cost to me. IE, the packages were different, but the net cost to me in each case was going to be about the same. So rather than pick based on the financial aid or the scholarships are being offered, I picked on which city it was in. And I figured being a college kid in Atlanta, Georgia was a good move. And it turned out it was a good move. There was lots to see and do in Atlanta, Georgia, only about four hours from home. And it just it worked out to be pretty good that my other choices were Athens, Georgia, which is strictly a college town. And you know, when the summer rolls around, the place is empty. It goes down, and the other was a school and Farmville, Virginia, excuse me, the closest town is Farmville, Virginia, where the 711 closed at six. And I’m not exaggerating when I say that, yeah, not too sure. I want to be that far out in the sticks right as a 19 year old away from home for the first time, I wanted. I wanted. I wanted to have something to do with my freedom, meaning, if I was free to do what I wanted to do, I wanted to have something to do with that so and not not sit around Farmville, Virginia, wonder what was going to happen next. Yeah. Well,
 
Michael Hingson ** 09:19
so what did you major in in college?
 
Daniel Andrews ** 09:23
That question always comes up, and I’m always hesitant to answer that, because people think it has something to do with what I do today, and it does not in any way shape or stretch. I got a BS in psychology, which I tell people was heavy on the BS and light on the psychology, but at
 
Michael Hingson ** 09:38
the same time. And so my master’s degree is in physics, although I ended up not going into physics, although I did a little bit of science work. But do you would you say, though, that even though you got a BS in psychology and you went off and you’re clearly doing other things, did you learn stuff, or did that degree benefit you? And do you still. I have skills and things that you learned from that that you use today. I
 
Daniel Andrews ** 10:04
used to tell people that I had three facts that I used in college, that I learned in college, that I used on a daily basis, and for the longest time, I could recite all three. But nobody asked me what they were for the longest time, and I’m sure I still use all three of them, but I can only recall one, so the answer is, for the most part, no. But I think I went to college for a piece of paper. Someone else was paying for it. In this case, the school, not my parents. It was a scholarship, and I went to school not to learn anything. I went to school to get a piece of paper. I started off as a physics major, by the way, and when I got to the semester where they were trying to teach me that light is both a particle and a wave, I’m like, Yeah, we’re going to need a different major, because I did not get my head around that at all. And and the degree that was had the least hurdles to get to switch majors and finish at that moment in time with psychology. So that’s the route I took. I was just there for the piece of paper.
 
Michael Hingson ** 11:05
Physics wasn’t what you wanted to do, huh?
 
Daniel Andrews ** 11:08
I did. But if the textbook had said light has attributes of both a particle and a wave, I might have been able to grasp it a little bit quicker. But it said light is both a particle and a wave, and it was the week of finals, and I was struggling with the intro in chapter one for the textbook, and I’m like, yep, might be time for different major at this point,
 
Michael Hingson ** 11:29
my master, my master’s is in physics, and you mentioned and I enjoyed it, and I and I still have memories and concepts that I learned, that I use today, probably the biggest one is paying attention to detail and physics. It isn’t enough to get the numeric right answer, you got to make the units work as well, which is more of a detail issue than just getting the numbers, because you can use a calculator and get numbers, but that doesn’t get you the units. And so I found that skill to be extremely important and valuable as I worked through physics and went through and I actually got a master’s and also a secondary teaching credential, and I thought I was going to teach, but life did take different directions, and so that’s okay.
 
Daniel Andrews ** 12:18
Well, when you frame it that way, I will say that there is something that I learned that I that I use, maybe not in my work, but in my field of vision, and that’s this, you know, lab and experimental methods taught me to ask the question, how did they ask the questions? Right? What was the structure of the test, the experiment, the the data collection right? Because you can do an awful lot of things. For example, they have found that if a doctor says to a patient, we have a chance to do surgery, there’s a 10% chance of success, meaning that you’ll live, they get a better up to uptake than if they say there’s a 90% chance that you’ll die. Yeah, it’s the same information, but you always have to look at the way the questions are framed. Polls are notorious for this right data collection from my days in Cutco, I read a study and I put quotes around it right? A study that said that wooden cutting boards retain less bacteria than plastic cutting boards or polypropylene polyurethane, which is clearly blatantly wrong if you’re treating your cutting boards correctly. And I looked into it, and they simply wiped the surface and then waited a day and measured bacteria count? Well, if you don’t put it what you can dishwasher a plastic cutting board and sterilize it, right? Why would you simply wipe the surface? In the case of the wood, the bacteria was no longer at the surface. It had sunk into the woods. So there’s not as much on the surface. I’m like, oh, but it’s still there. It’s just down in the wood. You have to literally look at the way these tests are done. And I guess the wooden cutting board industry paid for that study, because I can’t imagine anybody else that would would a care and B make the argument that a wooden cutting board was better than a plastic one for sanitation reasons,
 
Michael Hingson ** 14:13
because it’s clearly all it’s all sales. And of course, that brings up the fact that you get that kind of knowledge honestly, because when you were a sophomore, you got a summer job with Cutco.
 
Daniel Andrews ** 14:24
I did, yeah, and I remember 3030, what is that? 36 years ago, now having to explain what Cutco was, but Cutco has been around for so long in America that most American households have at least some Cutco on them at this point. So I find most people already know and understand, but it was a direct sales job. It was not structured the way an MLM or a network marketing company has, but my job is to literally take, you know, a kit full of samples, right? Some some regular, normal, standard products that we would use and sell, and take them into people’s homes and sit at the kitchen table and demonstrate. Right? The usefulness. Go over the guarantee, go over the pricing options, and you know what choices they could pick stuff out, and it turned out to be a lot of fun. Turned out to be more lucrative than most people imagine. I don’t want to brag too much about how much reps make doing that, because then customers get upset we’re being overpaid, but yeah, that’s not true either. But it was a blast to to do that and the learning environment, right? What I learned about setting my own goals, discipline, awareness of the way communication landed on other people. I don’t the psychology of communication, being around people, helping them understand what I knew to be true, finding ways to address concerns, issues, objections, without making them feel wrong or awkward. You know, it was a good environment, and that’s why I stayed for 15 years. For
 
Michael Hingson ** 15:52
me, after college, I went to work with an organization that had developed a relationship with Dr Ray Kurzweil, the futurist and who now talks a lot about the singularity. And at that time, he had developed a machine that would read print out loud. Well, it would read print, and he chose, for the first application of that machine to be a machine that would read print out loud so that blind people could read print in books, because his technology didn’t care about what type styles or print fonts were on the page anyway. After the job was over, I went to work for Ray, and after about eight or nine months, I was confronted with a situation where I was called into the office of the VP of Marketing, who said, your work is great. We love what you do, but you’re not doing anything that produces revenue for us, because I was doing Human Factors work helping to enhance the machine, and so we’re going to have to lay you off, he said. And I said, lay me off. And he said, again, your work is great, but we don’t have enough revenue producers. We’re, like a lot of startup engineering companies, we’ve hired way too many non revenue producers. So we got to let people go, and that includes you, unless you’ll go into sales. And not only go into sales, but not selling the reading machine for the blind, but there’s a commercial version that had just come out. So I ended up doing that, and took a Dale Carnegie sales course, a 10 week course, which I enjoyed very much. Learned a lot, and have been selling professionally ever since, of course, my story of being in the World Trade Center and escaping on September 11 after that, I still continue to sell. What I tell people is I love to view my life as now selling life and philosophy. Rather than selling computer hardware and managing a hardware team, it really is about selling life and philosophy and getting people to understand. You can learn to control fear. You can learn to function in environments that you don’t expect, and you can go out of your comfort zone. And there’s nothing wrong with that, you know. So that’s it’s been a lot of fun for the last 23 years to do that.
 
Daniel Andrews ** 18:00
Okay? Now you got me curious. What’s the commercial application of a machine that will take a printed book and read it out loud? What I can clearly see why people with various and sundry?
 
Michael Hingson ** 18:12
Well, for people who are blind and low vision, well, so let’s, let’s deal with it. The commercial application for that particular machine is that people will buy it and use it. Of course, today it’s an app on a smartphone, so it’s a whole lot different than it was as a $50,000 machine back in 1978 1979 but the idea behind the machine was that libraries or agencies or organizations could purchase them, have them centrally located, so people who never could read print out loud before could actually go get a book, put it on the machine and read it.
 
Daniel Andrews ** 18:46
Okay? So this would make sense libraries and institutions of public knowledge, okay. But then, as I could see, where someone would want one in their home if they had need of it. But I was just curious about the commercial application well.
 
Michael Hingson ** 18:57
But then over time, as the technology advanced. As more were produced, the price went down. And it went from $50,000 down to $20,000 and you started to see some in people’s homes. And then, of course, it got less and less and less and eventually, before it became almost a free app on a smartphone today, it used the Symbian operating system and Nokia phones, and the the technology, in total, was about $1,800 and then, of course, it became an app on a smartphone, and a lot of OCR today is free, but the other side of it was the machine I sold was a version that banks would use, lawyers would use, other people would use to be able to take printed documents and get them into computer readable form, because people saw pretty early on that was an important thing to be able to do so they could peruse databases and so on and so the bottom line is that it was very relevant to do. Yeah, and so there was commercial value, but now OCR has gotten to be such a regular mainstay of society. You know, we think of it differently than we did then, very
 
Daniel Andrews ** 20:10
much. But yeah, we still have one that can read my handwriting
 
Michael Hingson ** 20:15
that is coming. You know, they’re my handwriting. I wanted to be a doctor, and I passed the handwriting course, but that’s as far as I got. But, and as I love to tell people, the problem was I didn’t have any patients, but, you know, oh boy. But the the bottom line is that there were applications for it, and and it worked, and it was great technology. So it taught me a lot to be able to be involved in taking the Dale Carnegie sales course, and I know he’s one of the people that influenced you in various ways. Very much, very important to recognize for me that good sales people are really teachers and advisors and counselors. Absolutely you can. You can probably talk people into buying stuff, which may or may not be a good thing to do, but if we’ve really got something that they need, they’ll figure it out and they’ll want to buy
 
Daniel Andrews ** 21:11
it. Yeah, the way it was summarized to me, and this particularly relates around, you know, the Cutco product or another tangible you know, selling is just a transference of enthusiasm, meaning, if they knew and understood it the way I did, it would make perfect sense. So the question was, how do I find a way to convey my enthusiasm for what I knew about the product? And as simple, I don’t wanna say simple, it sounds condescending in as few words as possible, in ways that made it easy for them to digest, right? Because some people are, are tactile, and they want to hold it, look at it. Others are, you know, knowledge oriented. They want to read the testimonials and a guarantee and, you know, things like that. So just, how do you, how do you kind of figure out who’s looking for what? Yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 21:56
and the reality is, everybody is a little bit different in that arena. And as you said, conveying enthusiasm, you’ll either be able to do it or you’ll find that what you have isn’t really what’s going to make them enthusiastic, which can be okay too. Yep, the important thing is to know that and to use that information. And when necessary, you move on and you don’t worry about it, correct? We have cut CO knives. We’re we, we’re happy. But anyway, I think the the issue is that we all have to grow, and we all have to learn to to do those things that we find are relevant. And if we we put our minds to it, we can be very productive people. And as you pointed out, it’s all about transmitting enthusiasm, and that’s the way it really ought to be.
 
22:54
Yeah, I think so.
 
Michael Hingson ** 22:55
So you talk about, well, so let’s, let’s go back. So you went to work for Cutco, and you did that for 15 years. What would you say the most important thing you learned as a as a salesperson, in working at Cutco really came down to,
 
Daniel Andrews ** 23:16
there’s so many fundamental lessons in the direct sales industry, right? It’s why, you know, so many people got their start with Encyclopedia Britannica or Southwestern books or Cutco knives, right? There’s a, there’s a, I mean, in the 90s, CentOS, the uniform people and sprint when cell phones were new and actually had to actively be sold because people had to be talked into it, yeah. You know, they ran whole recruiting ads that said, Did you used to sell knives, entry level work, starting at base, you know, salary plus commission, right? Because it was so foundational. So it’s hard to say the most important thing, but I would say the ability to take control of my own schedule, and therefore my own actions, right, was a huge part of it. But then the ability to really know what, understand the people that I was working with as customers. As my time at ketco matured, and even after I left working with them full time, I still had a database of customers that wanted to deal strictly with me and the fact that they were happy to see me right? That when I was again, after I’d moved away, if I came back to town, that my customers would be like, Oh, I heard you’re in town when you come to our house and have dinner, right? And just the way, I was able to move from business relationship into one where I really connected with them. And you know that many years, seeing that many customers give me some really cool stories too, which I’m not going to eat up most of this, but I’ve just got some fun stories of the way people responded to my pleasant persistence, follow through, follow up, knowing that I could run into any one of them anywhere at any moment in time. And not feel that I had oversold them, or I had been pushy, right, that they would be happy and what they bought. And as a matter of fact, I’ve only ever had one customer tell me that they bought too much Cutco. And she said that to me when I was there sharpening her Cutco and selling her more. And she said she had bought more than she needed for her kitchen. Initially, I’m selling her more for a gift, let me be clear. And I paused, and I said, Do you remember how the this is like five or six years later? I said, you remember how the conversation went? Because I use the story of that demo when I’m talking to other people and to other reps. She said, Oh yeah, no, no. She goes, I will 100% own that I chose to buy more than I needed. She goes, I was not trying to pin that on you. I was just trying to tell you that that’s what I did. I said, Oh, okay, because I wanted to be clear, I remember very clearly that I offered you the small set, and you chose the big set. And she goes, that is exactly what happened. I made the choice to over buy, and that’s on me, and that level of confidence of knowing I could go through time and space, that I could meet my customers here, you know, when I came back to town, or now that I moved back to town, and I don’t have to flinch, right? But I’m not that I did it in a way that left them and me feeling good about the way I sold them. That’s pretty it’s pretty important,
 
Michael Hingson ** 26:15
and it is important, and it’s, it’s vital to do that. You know, a lot of people in sales talk all about networking and so on. You, don’t you? You really do talk about what I believe is the most important part about sales, and that’s relationship building, correct?
 
Daniel Andrews ** 26:34
I took, took my theme from The subtitle of a book called Super connector, and the subtitle is, stop networking and start building relationships that matter. And I’m, I’m comfortable using that, by the way, there’s another book titled networking isn’t working, and it’s really hitting the same theme, which is, whatever people are calling networking is, is not really, truly building a network and relationships that make a difference. It’s social selling. I call it sometimes. It’s being practiced as speed prospecting, right? Or marketing by hand. There’s, there’s, there’s a bunch of ways that I can articulate why it’s not literally not networking. It’s simply meeting people and treating them very one dimensionally. Will you buy my thing? Or do you know somebody That’ll buy my thing right? And those are very short sighted questions that have limited value and keeps people on a treadmill of thinking they need to do more networking or meet the right people. I get this all the time, if I can just find the right people, or if I could just be in the right rooms, right at the right events, and I’m like, or you could just be the person that knows how to build the right relationships, no matter what room you’re in. Now, having said that, are there some events, some rooms, some communities, that have a higher likelihood of high value? Sure, I don’t want to discourage people from being intentional about where they go, but that’s only probably 10 to 20% of the equation. 80 to 90% of the equation is, do you know what to do with the people that you meet when you meet them? Because anybody that’s the wrong person, and I simply mean that in the context of they’re not a prospect. Knows people that could be a prospect, but you can’t just go, Oh, you’re not going to buy my thing. Michael Hinkson, do you know, anybody that’s going to buy my thing that’s no good, because you’re not going to put your reputation on the line and refer me somewhere, right until you have some trust in me, whatever that looks like.
 
Michael Hingson ** 28:30
And that’s the real issue, right? It’s all about trust right down the line. You know, network is meeting more people, meeting more people. That’s great. I love to meet people, but I personally like to establish relationships. I like to get to know people, and have probably longer and more conversations than some of my bosses would have liked. But the result and the success of establishing the relationships can’t be ignored
 
Daniel Andrews ** 29:05
correct. And I think that you kind of threw in a word there that I think some people will internalize, or it will reinforce some of their preconceptions. And I think it’s worth addressing. And I’ll just give you a quick example. Six, six weeks ago, four weeks ago, I had a conversation with somebody I was introduced to. His name happens to be Michael as well. Michael, Mike Whitmore. He was impressed with the quality of our first well, it went 45 it was scheduled for 25 and I went 45 because we really gelled. And he invited me to come to a cocktail party that was being hosted by a company he was affiliated with three hour event, and we spoke again later to make sure you know everything was in order, because it involved me flying to Salt Lake City for a cocktail party I did. He was there. We spoke briefly. We both mingled with other. People. I had breakfast with him the next day. This is yesterday that I had breakfast with him. And as we’re talking, he’s like, Okay, I have 80 people that need what you’ve got. He’s, he’s basically, after a few conversations, gonna refer about $400,000 for the business to me, right? And I’m like, Okay, and so what people miss is that you can build that relationship quickly if you’re intentional about building the relationship. And where I see the mistake most people make. And God bless Dale Carnegie, and Dale’s Carnegie sales training course, right? But that that the model, what I call the cocktail party model, or the How to Win Friends and Influence People, model of getting to know somebody you know. How about that ball team? You know? Did your sports club win? Right? How’s the weather up there? Did you hear about the you know, how’s your mom, right? When’s the last time you were camping with the fam? All legitimate questions, but none of them moved the business conversation forward. And so the ability to build a productive business relationship faster by focusing on the mutual shared value that you have between each other and the business aspects, and including the personal as the icing on the cake is a much better way to do it, and that’s why I was very particular about the fact that, you know, when I was talking about my experience with ketco, that it was over time that the personal aspects, that the friendship looking aspects, evolved On top of the business relationship, because it is way easier to mix the ingredients, to put the icing or friendship on the cake of business than it is to establish a friendship and then go, by the way, it’s time for us to talk business, right? You need to our client, or you need to let me sell what I’m offering that can get become jarring to people, and it can call into question the whole reason you got to know them to start with, right? So I much prefer the other route. And just one other brief example, speaking with a woman in a in what I, you know, a first paired interview, Quick Connect, 25 minutes long, and she’s like, understand, you know, relationships, it’s the, you know, it’s the way to do it, right? It’s the long play, but it pays off over time. And you know, as long as you stay at it, and I’m like, Why do you keep saying it’s the long play? Well, because relationships take time. And I’m like, You say so. And we started to run long and realized we had more value, so we booked it. Ended up being about four or five weeks later, because my calendar stays pretty full, and she’s so we’ve been in 125 minute phone call. We start the second zoom with her, with Peggy asking me who’s your target market again. And I gave her the description for a $25,000 client. And she said, I have three people that I can refer you to in that space that might might want to be clients. And then she started to try and tell me how relationships are the long play? Again, I’m like, thank you. Hold up. We spent 25 minutes together a month ago, and you started this conversation by referring $75,000 worth of revenue to me. What makes you think relationships are the long play? I think you can make them last if you want them to last, but it doesn’t take a long time to build those I said I knew what I was doing with those first 25 minutes. That’s why, at this stage of the game, you’re looking to refer business to me. Yeah, right, yeah. And so I don’t think it’s a long you’re not establishing a marriage relationship, right? You’re not deciding who your new best friend is going to be, right? You’re trying to establish a mutually beneficial business relationship and see what it takes you right with the right set of questions, it goes so much faster
 
Michael Hingson ** 33:49
and and that’s really a key. And for me, one of the things that I learned in sales, that I really value a lot is never answer or ask close ended questions. I hate yes and no questions, because I learned a long time ago. I don’t learn much if I just ask somebody. Oh, so you, you tell me you need a tape library, right? Yes, and you, you ask other questions, but you don’t ask the questions like, What do you want to use it for? Why do you really need a tape library today? What? What is it that you you value or that you want to see increased in your world, or whatever the case happens to be, right? But I hate closed ended questions. I love to engage in conversations, and I have lots of stories where my sales teams. When I manage teams, at first, didn’t understand that, and they asked the wrong questions. But when I would ask questions, I would get people talking. And I was I went into a room of Solomon brothers one day back in like, 2000 or so, or 2000 early 2001 and I was with. My best sales guy who understood a lot of this, but at the same time, he wanted me to come along, because they wanted to meet a sales manager, and he said, I didn’t tell him you were blind, because we’re going to really hit him with that. And that was fine. I understood what he what he meant, but also he knew that my style was different and that I liked to get more information. And so when we went in and I started trying to talk to the people, I turned to one guy and I said, tell me what’s your name. And it took me three times to get him to say his name, and finally I had to say I heard you as I walked by. You know, I know you’re there, what’s your name? And then we started talking, and by the time all was said and done. I got everyone in that room talking, which is great, because they understood that I was really interested in knowing what they were all about, which is important,
 
Daniel Andrews ** 35:53
correct? And I mean part of it right, particularly if you’re problem solving, right? If you’re there with a solution, a sales environment, open ended questions, predominantly the way to go. There’s always going to have to be some closed ended right? What’s the budget for this? Who are the decision makers in the process? But, and I certainly think a lot of the same ones apply in decision making. Meaning, it’s probably an 8020 split. 80% of the questions should be open ended. 20% you know, you know, you just need some data from the other person, right? Because, as I’m meeting people, I need to decide who to refer them to, right? I know I can think off the top of my head of three different resume coaches, right? People that help people get the resume, their cover letter and their interview skills together. And one charges, you know, four to 5000 for the effort, right, depending on the package, right? One charges between 2030 500 depending on one guy charges, you know, his Deluxe is 1200 bucks, right? And the deliverable is roughly the same. Meaning, I’ve never looked for a job using these people, because I’ve been self employed forever, but I would imagine the deliverable is probably not three times as or four times as good at 5k at 1200 Right, right? But I need to know the answer, what you charge, because the rooms I will put people in are going to differentiate, right? I actually said it to the guy that was charging 1200 I said, Where’d you get the number? And he told me. And I said, Do you realize that you’re losing business because you’re not charging enough, right? And he said, Yes, some prospects have told me that. And I said, I’m sorry. Plural. I said, How many? How many are going to tell you before I before you raise your rates? And I said, here’s the thing, there’s communities, networks that I can introduce you to at that price point, but the networks that I run in won’t take you seriously if you’re not quoting 5000 for the job. Yeah? And he just couldn’t get his head around it. And I’m like, Okay, well, then you’re stuck there until you figure out that you need to triple or quadruple your price to hang out in the rooms I hang out in to be taken seriously.
 
Michael Hingson ** 37:57
Yeah? And it is tough for a lot of people, by the way, with that Solomon story, by the time I was done, and we had planned on doing a PowerPoint show describing our products, which I did, but even before we did that, I knew our product wasn’t going to do what they needed. But went through the presentation, and then I said, and as you can see, what we have won’t work. Here’s why, but here’s what will work. And after it was all said and done, one of the people from near the back of the room came up and he said, we’re mad at you. And I said, why? He said, Oh, your presentation was great. You You gave us an interesting presentation. We didn’t get bored at all. The problem was, we forgot you were blind, and we didn’t dare fall asleep, because you’d see us. And I said, well, well, the bottom line is, my dog was down here taking notes, and we would have got you anyway, but, but, you know, he was he we had a lot of fun with that. Two weeks later, we got a proposal request from them, and they said, just tell us what we’re what we’re going to have to pay. We got another project, and we’re going to do it with you. And that was
 
Daniel Andrews ** 39:02
it, yeah, and because the credibility that you’d established credibility,
 
Michael Hingson ** 39:07
and that is a great thing,
 
Daniel Andrews ** 39:09
that was part of the discussion I have with some of my clients today when I hold a weekly office hours to see what comes up. And I said, it’s just important to be able to refer people to resources or vendors, as it is to refer them to a prospect, right? If you don’t have the solution, or if your solution isn’t the best fit for them, the level of credibility you gain to go, you know what you need to do? You need to go hang out over there. Yeah, right. You need to talk to that guy or gal about what they have to offer. And the credibility goes through the roof. Well,
 
Michael Hingson ** 39:39
we’ve been talking about networking, and I think that’s everything we’ve talked about. I think really makes a lot of sense, but at the same time, it doesn’t mean that you don’t build a network. It’s just that networking and building a network are really two different sorts of things. What are some of the most important things that you’ve learned about building. That
 
Daniel Andrews ** 40:00
works. Sure, there’s several, and some of them come as a bit of a shock to people. And I always say it’s okay if it’s a shock to you, because it was a shock to me. But I don’t take I don’t have opinions. I have positions based on data. Right? You know that from your from your days as a scientist, what you think ought to be true absolutely irrelevant in the face of what the data tells us is true. But I think one of the important things is that it’s possible to give wrong. Adam Grant says in the first chapter of his book, give and take. That if you look at people’s networking styles, and I’ll use the common vernacular networking styles, you have givers, people that tend to give more than they, you know, receive takers, people whose objective is to always be on the plus side of the equation. And then matchers, people that practice the degree of reciprocity. And I would even argue that that reciprocity and matching is a bad mentality, just so you know. But if you look at the lifetime of success, a career is worth of success. In the top levels of success, you find more givers than takers and matchers, which makes a lot of sense. In the lowest levels of success, you find more givers than takers and matchers. They’re giving wrong. They tend to polarize. They tend to either be high achieving or very low achieving, because they’re giving wrong. And so I and Michael, let me use his name. We had breakfast yesterday morning after the happy hour, and I said, Mike, are you open for coaching? And he said, You know I am. He said, I didn’t have you flat here in Salt Lake City, because I don’t respect you. What do you got for me? I said, Josh kept thanking you yesterday for the things you’ve done for him in his world lately, you know, over the last several years. And he kept saying, What can I do for you? And you said, Oh, no, I just love giving. I love giving, right? You know, it’s not a problem. You know, I’m in a great position. I don’t need to have a lot of need of resources. And I said, and you’re missing the fact that he was explicitly telling you this relationship feels uneven. I said it takes longer to kill it, but you will kill a relationship just as quickly by consistently over giving as you will by taking too much. And it’s a little more subconscious, although in Josh’s case, it was very conscious. He was actively trying to get Mike to tell him, what can I do for you so I don’t feel like I’m powerless in this relationship. And Mike was like, Oh my gosh, I never thought of that. Said, Look, I said, I don’t know how your kids are. He said, well, two of them are married. And I said, my grown daughter argues with me over who’s going to buy dinner. But I get it because I used to argue with my dad, who was going to buy dinner. Yeah, dinner together, right? It feels weird for someone, even somebody, that loves you, right? And, of course, the only way I can do it with my daughter is to explain, it’s her money anyway. I’m just spending her inheritance on her now, it’s the only way she’ll let me buy dinner every time we meet, and she still insists that she pays the debt, because over giving will get in the way of what we’re trying to accomplish, right? That’s fair, yeah. And so people miss that, right? I get this law of reciprocity. If I just give and give and give to the world, it’ll all come back to me. No, ma’am. We have 6000 years of recorded history that says that’s not
 
Michael Hingson ** 43:18
how it works. There’s there’s something to be said forgiving, but there’s also receiving. And in a sense, receiving can be a gift too. So you’re mentioning Michael and Josh. Josh would have loved, as you’re pointing out, Michael to tell him some things that he could do for Michael, and that would have been a great gift. So the reality is, it’s how people view giving, which is oftentimes such a problem. I know, for me as a public speaker, I love dealing with organizations that are willing to pay a decent wage to bring a speaker in, because they understand it, and they know they’re going to get their money’s worth out of it. And I’ve gone and spoken at some places where they say, well, we can’t pay you a lot of money. We’re going to have to pay just this little, tiny amount. And invariably, they’re the organizations that take the most work, because they’re the ones that are demanding the most, even though they’re not giving nearly as much in return. And and for me, I will always tell anyone, especially when we’re clearly establishing a good relationship, I’m here as your guest. I want to do whatever you need me to do, so please tell me how best I can help you, but I know I’m going to add value, and we explore that together, and it’s all about communication.
 
Daniel Andrews ** 44:48
I think so well. And in the case, you know, just go back to the mike and Josh story real quick, right? There’s, there’s number one, there’s a sense of fairness. And I don’t like the word reciprocity or magic, right? I like the word. Mutuality, but there’s a sense of fairness. Number one. Number two, it’s a little bit belittling to Josh, for Mike to act like Josh doesn’t have anything to offer him, right? It’s a little bit condescending, or it could be, Mike doesn’t mean it that way, right? No, what he means is my relationship with you, Josh is not predicated on us keeping a scoreboard on the wall and that we make sure we come out even at the end of every quarter, right? But, but. And then the third part is, you know, I said, Mike, think of how good you feel when you give. He says, I love it. It’s great. That’s why I said, so you’re robbing Josh of the feeling of giving when you don’t give him a chance to give. I said, you’re telling him that your joy is more important than his joy, and he’s like I never thought of over giving or not asking as robbing people of joy. I said, You need to give the gift to Josh and the people around you to feel the joy that comes from being of use, of being helpful, of having and I said, even if you have to make something up or overstate the value of a of a task that he could do for you, I said, if you literally don’t need anything in your world, Mike, find some job Hunter that’s looking for work. And say, Josh, as a courtesy to me, would you meet with Billy Bob and see if you can help him find work somehow give Josh the sense that he’s contributing to the betterment of your world, even
 
Michael Hingson ** 46:26
if it may not work out that this person, Billy Bob would would get a job, but it’s still you’re you’re helping to further the relationship between the two of you, correct, right? You’re
 
Daniel Andrews ** 46:38
helping him feel like he’s an equal in that relationship. And that’s an important part of it. It really is. It’s now I do an important part. I do believe we absolutely should tithe. We should give of our time. We should be at the homeless shelter on Thanksgiving. If that’s what we’re called to do, we should be, you know, you know, aid to the poor, you know, mentoring junior people who don’t have a lot to offer us. I absolutely believe that’s true. So when I say give strategically or given a sense of mutuality, but we need clear delineations on you know what we’re doing, because if we give indiscriminately, then we find out that we’re like the people in chapter one of Adam Grant’s book that are in the lower quartile of success, even though we’re quote, doing all the right things. And the best way to make you know, the example I give on that, and I’ll articulate this little bit, I’m holding my hands apart and moving them closer together in stages, just because the visual will help you here too. But I tell people, right? I hold my hands apart and I say, you know, we’re going to spend this much time on the planet alive, right? And this much time on the planet awake, right, and this much time on the planet at work. And then I’ll pause and go, these are approximations right, because clearly they are right, and this much time on the planet dealing with other people. So if, if it’s true that we only have a limited or finite resource of time to spend building a network with other people, then why wouldn’t we choose people whose message is worth amplifying and who we’re well positioned to amplify and vice versa? And to make that even more clear for people, if you’re a real estate agent, you could find a lot of people that would refer business to you, but you could find a few people that would refer a lot
 
Michael Hingson ** 48:25
of business, a lot of business. Yeah,
 
Daniel Andrews ** 48:27
you could find a mortgage lender, a divorce attorney, a moving company, a funeral home director, a nursing home director, right? And and if you’re going to spend time building relationships with people, why wouldn’t you find the people who are positioned to touch more people that you need to touch, particularly if there is some mutuality, meaning, as a real estate agent, I would be just as likely to be able to help a mortgage lender, a moving company, a funeral loan director, etc, etc, etc, right? All those things can come into play. And you know, the John gates, the salary negotiation coach, right? And Amanda Val bear, the resume writing coach, anybody can refer business to Amanda, but John’s going to refer a lot more business to Amanda. Anybody can refer business to John, but Amanda’s going to refer a lot more business to John. And and, you know, given that we’ve only got a finite number of conversations we’re able to hold in our lifetime, why wouldn’t Amanda and John be spending time with each other rather than spending time with me, who might occasionally meet somebody who needs them, but not on a daily basis the way Amanda meets John’s clients? John meets Amanda’s potential clients.
 
Michael Hingson ** 49:32
So here’s the other way to spin. May not be the right word, but I’ll use it. Frame it. Frame it. So you’ve got somebody who you’re not giving a lot of, let’s say a real estate agent. You’re not giving that person a lot, but you’re giving Elmo Schwartz, the real estate agent down the street, a lot more referrals and so on. Then the real estate agent who you’re not referring a lot of people to, comes along and says, You. You know, I know you’re really working with this other guy, but you know you and I have have had some conversations, and so how come I can’t take advantage of the many opportunities that you’re that you’re offering? And I, for me, I always rejoice when I hear somebody ask that question, because at least they’re opening up and they’re saying, What do I need to do? At least, that’s what I assume they’re asking,
 
Daniel Andrews ** 50:24
yes, yeah, and that’s a question that I teach people to ask, under what conditions would you feel comfortable referring business to me, right? Right? And you know, they may go, well, we don’t share the same last name, but all my referrals go to, you know, Billy Bob, because he’s my brother in law, and Thanksgiving gets weird, right? If he realizes I’ve been given leads to you, right? You know, it may never happen. Now, in my case, I believe in having multiple referral partners in every industry, right? Yeah, I don’t just pick one, because personality plays part of it, right? I mean, and we can go back to real estate just because you say you’re a real estate agent, I’m a real estate agent. I mean, we’re calling on the same market. Same market at all, right, right? You could be a buyer’s agent. I could be a seller’s agent. You could be calling on, you know, what’s a probate and estate issues? I could be dealing with first time homebuyers and young people, right? And therefore, and a lot of times it’s personality, meaning, I personally, is not even the right word approach to business, meaning, there’s some people that I would send to Ann Thomason, and there’s some people I would send to Kim Lawson, and there’s some people I would send to Elaine Gillespie, and some people I’d send to Taco Beals, right? Because I know what each of their strengths are, and I also know what sort of person they want to work with, right? Right? That’s 1/3 person would appreciate them.
 
Michael Hingson ** 51:42
And that’s the important part that that when somebody comes along and says, How come such and such, you can answer that, and you can do it in a way that helps them understand where they can truly fit into what you’re offering, and that you can find a way to make it work, and that’s really important. I’ve always maintained the best salespeople or teachers, pure and simple, in almost everything, and preachers, but but listening preachers. So it is, it is important to, yeah, well,
 
Daniel Andrews ** 52:16
and I bring this up in the context because we have a Bible college here in our town. So when I was a manager for Cutco, right? We get the college kids, right? Some of these seminary students, you know, looking for summer work and right? And they’re like, you know, how does sales relate to, you know, being in the ministry later, I said, man. I said, Are you kidding? You kidding? I said, it’s the purest. I said, you’ve got the hardest sales down on the roll. You ask people to pay the price now, and the payoff is at the end of their life. That’s not sales. I don’t know what is. At least, when people give me money, I give them something for it within a couple of days, you know, I said, I said, You better be good at sales if you’re going to be your preacher eventually. Because you the, you know, the payment, the cost comes now, and the payoff, the reward comes later. I said, Man, those are the same but teachers the same way, right? You’ve got to invest the kids, the kids or the student, no matter how you know and what they’re learning and why it’s going to be relevant down the
 
Michael Hingson ** 53:06
road, right? Yeah, well, you You clearly have, have accepted all of this. When did you realize that maybe you were doing it wrong and that you re evaluated what you do?
 
Daniel Andrews ** 53:17
That’s a great story, and there was a light bulb moment for me, right? I think the kids these days call it the origin story, right? You know. And and to tell the story correctly, but I have to give labels to the other two people involved, because their names are so similar that when I tell the story, I managed to confuse myself who was who. So I was in St Louis, Missouri, which, for reasons I won’t go into for this podcast, is a weird town to be involved in B to B business in. They literally would prefer to do business with somebody they went to high school with. It’s just a It’s strange, but true. And I can go into the background of why it’s true. It just is. It’s accepted by people that have sold in towns other than St Louis. It’s they know that St Louis is weird. Okay, so I’m having trouble not getting the traction I want. Who’s in my industry, he agrees that we’re going to partner and we’re going to have a revenue share. I don’t believe in finder’s fees, but if you’re going to co create the value with me, that’s a different thing altogether, right? Writing a name on a piece of paper, I’m not paying for that. But if you’re going to go with me on the appointment and help me get the job done. Yeah. Okay, back to the point. So my wingman, right? My partner, I call him wingman for the version this story, local, been around forever, prospect, business owner, right? We’ve got a B to B offered that’s going to be fairly lucrative, because he’s part of a family that owns a family businesses quite, quite a large there in St Louis. And we had met with the CFO because that was the real touch point on the business. As far as the value proposition over lunch, the four of us have been there prospect wingman CFO, of the prospect of myself, and it went reasonably well. Out they wanted to follow up to make the decision, which is not, not atypical. So we’re back there standing in the parking lot of the prospects business, and the prospect points at me and says, Who is this guy? And my partner says, he’s my guy. And the prospect points at me and goes, but I don’t know this guy, and my partner says, but I know this guy, and the prospect points me and says, Well, what happens if something happens to this guy? And my partner says, I’ll find another guy. And that was the purest, simplest form of what’s truly happening when you’re building a network. See, my days at Cutco were predicated on some of the same things. I go to Michael’s house. I asked the name of your neighbors, your best friends, your pastor, your doctor, whoever you think, and then I would call them Hey, your buddy Michael insen said you’d help me out. So I’m borrowing a little bit of credibility, but the sale was made in the product, right? I’m only asking for a moment of your time, but I expected to show up, meaning I was only borrowing someone else’s credibility to get a moment of your time. But I expected to show up and let the product and my Sterling personalities, I like to think of it, shine through and make the sale. There you go. And I realized, because when the prospect pointed me and said, Who is this guy, I thought my partner would say, he’s my guy. Daniel, here’s your chance to rise and shine, bring it, do that song and dance that you do, right? And he didn’t. He kept the focus on the real point, which was that the prospect had credibility with my partner, and my partner had credibility with me. Yeah, right. And, and, and in that moment where he refused to put the spotlight on me, my partner kept it on himself, and he said, Mr. Prospect, don’t worry about him. I’m not asking you to trust him. I’m asking you to trust me. And that was the light bulb where I said, Oh, what we’re building is not introductions. We’re building endorsements. When I get to the prospects door. I have the all the credibility that came from Bert, who referred me right, whatever credibility my partner, Bert, had with the prospect Butch. I show up on Butch is doorstep with that credibility. And when Butch starts to question it, the prospect starts to question it, my partner goes, What do you question? You’re going to question him. We’re not talking about him. We’re talking about you and me, and we’ve known each other 30 years. What are you doing here? And I’m like, oh, that’s why we’re doing this. That’s the point. I’m not asking to borrow your Rolodex. I’m asking to borrow your credibility.
 
Michael Hingson ** 57:38
And the other part of that question that comes to mind is, did the credibility that Bert and Butch have with each other ever get to the point where it transferred to you, at least in part? Oh, yeah,
 
Daniel Andrews ** 57:55
yeah, we got the sale. Yeah. I mean, that was the conversation where he’s like, All right, we’re going to do this. I’m like, because it was a big deal. It was a very large deal. And, yeah, but in
 
Michael Hingson ** 58:04
general, you know, I hear what you’re saying, and in general, somewhere along the line, the prospect has to say, has to hopefully recognize this other guy really is part of the process and has value, and so I’m going to like him too, correct,
 
Daniel Andrews ** 58:23
and you can drop the ball. It’s possible to screw it up, but I’m starting at a level 10 in the case of this particular pair of people, and it’s mine to lose, as opposed to starting from zero and trying to get up to five or six or eight or whatever it takes to make the sale, and that’s the biggest difference, right? It will, it will transfer to me, but then it’s up to me to drop the ball and lose it, meaning, if I don’t do anything stupid, it’s going to stay there. And you know what was great about my partner was he didn’t even not that I would have but he didn’t give me any room to say anything stupid. He’s like, he’s like, let’s not even talk. Put the spotlight on Daniel. Let’s keep the spotlight on the two of us, and the fact that I’ve never let you down in 30 years. Why would you think this is going to be a bad introduction
 
Michael Hingson ** 59:09
now? Right? Right? One of, one of the questions that that I keep thinking about, and I’ve thought about it a fair amount here, people are interesting. What can I say? So many people always say that they believe and absolutely support the idea of quality over quantity, but when it really comes down to it, they don’t pay attention to that.
 
Daniel Andrews ** 59:30
Yeah, and here’s why, why. I think that’s true. Their their notion of quality over quantity refers to the people that they meet, not the relationships that they establish, meaning they think the quality is found out there. And the reality is, if you know how to build a relationship, then you can choose to build it with the right people. And. That’s your quality over quantity. I can absolutely make people’s heads explode when I sit down with a pen and paper and a calculator, and can prove to them all the clients that they ever need from now until the end of their career, all the ideal clients, most highly profitable clients that they need from now until the end of their career, is accessible to them, right now, today, inside the next 12 hours, as accessible to them through the current network that they have. Yeah, and the reason that breaks down is because people are primarily visual. Those of us with ADHD, even more so, but we only see the people that we see, and we forget that everybody that we know and loves us and trusts us and would make a recommendation for us has their own role of people that trust them, and their own role of people that trust them, right and and we lose, but that’s literally the definition of network. A network is not your first degree. That’s first degree. That’s not a network. Those are your friends in connection. And connections. Yeah, your network is the people that trust you and the people that trust them and the people that trust them. And when you sit down and do the math, everybody you need is out there. So the key is not the quality is not found in meeting more people and sifting for quality. The quality is found in knowing how to build the relationship, selecting the people that could be quality in your world, and then building with them, meaning, quit looking for the unicorn be the unicorn, right? And that’s where people miss it. They still think that the externality of a quality connection is somewhere outside of them, and it’s not, it’s it’s internal to their skill set. If they don’t have it, they can learn it from me, and it’s internal to the network that they already have, that already exists. And
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:01:49
let’s go into that briefly. If we could learn from you, what do you do today, and and how can people take advantage of that? As it were cool, I primarily, certainly had to get there, you know?
 
Daniel Andrews ** 1:02:01
Yeah, I know well, and I only say that because I love bringing content, right? I mean, my best, you know, sales pitch is, I understand there’s more where that came from, right? That’s, that’s how I tend to wrap things up. If you think there’s any value in anything I said over the last, you know, 60 minutes, there’s more where that came from. But I will say this, I primarily serve three sorts of people, people that don’t have the time to build a network, people that don’t want to they would want to focus on other parts of their job, or people that enjoy it and do it, but they have not figured out how to make it consistently profitable to them. Got it. The output of working with me on either short or long term basis is to produce 72 to 120 and yes, those are specific numbers for reason, 72 to 120 warm introductions to ideal prospects per year. 72 to 120 warm introductions to ideal prospects year in and year out, and they I tend to have higher value, meaning my price makes sense for people who have a higher ticket or where trust is a higher factor, right? I could teach skills to somebody in direct sales or network marketing, they’re never going to earn enough money off what I teach them to make my price make sense. But if they’re in real estate where a transaction is worth 1000s of dollars, or financial services where a transaction is, you know, lifetime value that client could be 10s of 1000s and commissions and revenues, or a B to B sale, where the commissions and revenues could be in the 10s or hundreds or millions. Then my number makes a lot more sense, right? But I can show people over a 90 day period how to build a network of fewer, not more fewer, and produce 72 to 120 warm introductions to ideal prospects on less than five hours a month.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:03:54
There you go. So if people want to reach out to you and explore all of this. How do they do that? 803-361-6825
 
Daniel Andrews ** 1:04:05
I’m very comfortable giving out my phone number. If you want to text me, you can just say Michael hankson’s podcast, and I’ll know where you came from. 803-361-6825 for those of you that are afraid of actually speaking to me or getting into a conversation before you research me. The The irony is that my full name is the name of a bombastic Australian parliamentarian, so you cannot Google search me and find me. I’m buried under a couple million search returns that are not me. But I did buy my full name as my URL. I have a website that is my full name. Daniel Patrick andrews.com, the way Daniel is normally spelled. The way Patrick is normally spelled. The way Andrews, with an S on the end is normally spelled Daniel Patrick andrews.com or my phone number, 803-361-6825,
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:04:58
you. And I hope people will reach out. We need more and better good sales people, and more and better people who understand a lot about building relationships. But we could spend a lot of time talking about that with politicians, but we won’t go there. That’s that’s another whole story. They’re
 
Daniel Andrews ** 1:05:15
not that. Yeah, this well, and the short version there is the skills, and it’s been proven in western democracies, the skills and the personality traits successful that are required to successfully get elected are the antithesis of the skills and personality traits required to govern effectively. We’ve reached a point where we cannot elect somebody capable of doing the job, because people capable of doing the job can’t get elected, and people can get elected aren’t capable of doing the job. So it’s its own tragedy. My
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:05:43
only addition to that would be, or who don’t want to to to stoop to what you have to do to get elected. So the the either can’t or or know that they just don’t want to step down that that road, the
 
Daniel Andrews ** 1:05:58
the skills are actually not. It’s not like sales and management, where it’s unlikely to have both, but you can find a person that’s got both, they’ve literally found that they’re the opposite, meaning you cannot find a candidate who’s got the personality to get elected that also has the personality government, meaning they literally don’t exist in the same person. Yeah, that’s the frustrating part. It’s not that you we’re looking for the unicorn. They don’t exist. They are diametrically opposed. And that’s so tragic. It’s tragic for us at this point. So
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:06:28
one last time, phone number and web address and yeah, yeah.
 
Daniel Andrews ** 1:06:32
Daniel Patrick andrews.com, phone number, 803-361-6825, I haven’t changed it in 25 years. I’m not going to change it for change it for the next 25 803, for you, 361. 6825
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:06:47
Well, Daniel, I want to thank you for being here. This has been really fun. I always love to talk to people about sales and with people about sales, because it’s nice to find people who have kind of like minded attitudes about that sort of stuff. So I want to thank you for thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening and watching and whatever. We really appreciate your time. We value it. I hope that this has been helpful and interesting and useful for you. Love to hear your comments. Please feel free to email me. Michael H, i@accessibe.com that’s m, I C H, A, E, L, H i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I b, e.com, or go to our podcast page, which is w, w, w, dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, Michael hingson is m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, S o, n.com/podcast, but wherever you are doing The podcast with us today and enjoying this episode. I hope please give us a five star rating. We value your ratings. We value your input. We value anything that you want to tell us. If you know of a guest and Daniel you as well. If you know of people who ought to be a guest anyway, on unstoppable mindset and who you think would carry on a great conversation with us. Love to meet them, always people. I would really appreciate that, and I appreciate that from all of you listening. So with that, I want to thank you, Daniel, one last time for being here. This has been a whole lot of fun.
 
Daniel Andrews ** 1:08:13
It was fun for me too. Thank you, Michael.
 
**Michael Hingson ** 1:08:20
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.