Episode 215 – Unstoppable Wealth Therapist and Business Coach with Djuradj Caranovic

Posted March 19, 2024

“True prosperity lies beyond material wealth.” This statement begins the biography of our guest this time, Djuradj Caranovic. Djuradj is from Belgrade so we caught him fairly late one evening his time. He is a wealth therapist and a business coach. While you may ponder what the two have in common, Djuradj explains and shows why the two work well to offer him a way to help many wealthy people to discover how to be happier persons.

Djuradj Caranovic studied business and also later he began to learn about Psychotherapy. He melds the two interests in his successful business which works to help many of the world’s wealthiest people become better human beings.

Our discussion covers many topics such as Trust, Introspection, the true meaning of success and so many other relevant topics related to living a better life. This episode is well worth checking out. I hope you like it.

About the Guest:

True prosperity lies beyond material wealth. In my role as a Wealth Therapist and Business Coach, I guide clients to uncover their unique inner abundance. This distinctive approach marries business acumen with a profound understanding of human behavior and psychology, offering insightful and transformative guidance.

My 11-year professional journey reflects an evolving interest in human decision-making. Starting in finance, I was drawn to behavioral economics, seeking to unravel the psychological factors influencing financial decisions. This exploration led me to change management, where I facilitated in-house training and executive coaching, helping corporate clients implement effective change strategies and navigate organizational transformations.

These experiences naturally progressed to my current roles as a business coach and psychotherapist. Here, I blend my knowledge in finance, business strategies, change management, and behavioral insights to provide a holistic approach to personal and professional development.

In my practice, I assist clients in understanding the multifaceted aspects of their lives, focusing on both emotional well-being and life abundance. I guide them through the complex interplay between thoughts, emotions, and life decisions, teaching them to embrace their authenticity and navigate life’s challenges with resilience and insight.

My upcoming book, "The Book That Changed Me," is a testament to my professional journey and the wisdom I’ve gathered. More than just a collection of words, it’s a narrative of introspection and discovery, shedding light on how to find and nurture one’s inner richness. It embodies my philosophy of integrating diverse knowledge areas to enhance the lives of individuals and their dynamic environments.
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Ways to connect with Barbara:

Linkedin:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/djuradj/

About the Host:
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.

Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.

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https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/

accessiBe Links
https://accessibe.com/
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https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/

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Transcription Notes

Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.

Michael Hingson ** 01:20
Well, Hi, and welcome to unstoppable mindset. Welcome wherever you happen to be. I hope you’re having a good day. And that all is going well. Today, we get to chat with Djuradj Caranovic, and Djuradj is in actually Belgrade. And I love one of the things that he said to me in his bio. He said true prosperity lies beyond material wealth. And I’m really anxious to talk about that some. But I really appreciate the opportunity to have someone that gives that kind of thinking to what, what they’re doing. He’s a wealth therapist and business coach. And we’re going to learn all about that as well. So Djuradj I want to welcome to unstoppable mindset. And thank you very much for taking part of your evening and being here with us. Thank

Djuradj Caranovic ** 02:12
you, thank you. Thank you for invitation. And thank you for having me. It’s really honored to be part of such excitement projects you’re dealing with. Well,

Michael Hingson ** 02:21
thank you. And we’re glad you’re here with us. So let’s start, as I always like to do by kind of going back a little bit, tell me if you would sum about the early jurists show, you know, growing up, and so on, let’s start there. From

Djuradj Caranovic ** 02:36
the childhood I was very amazed about human nature, and how should they perceive the social awareness of it. And I was always dealing in trying more to understand why someone is doing something good or bad. And as well to see how I can relate to it. And in early days, I was a lot of learning through play, and how to get more creative with my brands, and, and my surroundings. And basically, that was dealt with, I don’t know, high school. And then after high school, I was totally amazed and to be totally transparent about the material things of the life, and started with the economy and the behavioral economist, actually, I became the behavioral economist. It is something which combined the psychology and the economy, which means I’m analyzing the behavior of the consumers, and then basically time creating marketing and sales strategies. And after some time, in my corporate career, I became more and more close to the people and please, and I was more and more passionate about the way they’re making their decisions and how they’re actually trying to bring their life experience to the work and as well to their lives. And this is actually my second life. Because this is the for me the breakthrough that I really want to more deal with the people than the corporates and processes and everything else. And yes, no, go ahead. And for me, it was very, you know, when you everybody’s telling you that you need to love what you are working and to have that added value. And then you will have the feeling that you’re not actually working but that you are producing some value which you can share and bring to others. And actually the first time I found that field is when I started my journey as a psychotherapist, and actually learning how to help people, and how more to understand the functional part of their lives. And now today, I’m dealing with very by accident actually is I was wealth therapist is very niche of everything, because it’s a niche that is focused on the ultra high net worth people and their specific way of thinking and their specific lives. And it’s very niche not because everyone else think of their wealth, it’s very specific, because they are combining the time management very well. And they have a lot of regret regrets regarding how the they are prioritizing their time. So it’s very difficult, different way and difficult way of the therapy, because they can argument by success, everything they are doing doing currently, but as well, they are not so happy with their life. So it’s very, by by logic, it’s very difficult to understand. And then you need to bring these, let’s say, feelings and, and a way of thinking that you need to understand why they are living that way. So basically, this is the short version. Yeah,

Michael Hingson ** 06:40
I understand. So why is it that you think a lot of the people who are very wealthy and who so many people would say, well, they’re successful, because they’re wealthy? But why do you think they’re not happy? And do you think that they view themselves as being successful? Um,

Djuradj Caranovic ** 06:57
yes, they are very aware of their success. And actually, they are utilizing the success very successful in their lives. And this is the biggest challenge for them, because they can get with some things through their influence or through their status. And then actually, they want to deal with as some kind of personal development. For from them the business part of their lives and the private part of their lives. It’s very complicated, and it’s very difficult to separate it. So they’re actually not perceiving themselves as I don’t know, too much successful. They are more perceiving those cells as they can manage time and value time and better way than others. And basically, this is the biggest difference. What is specifical for them, is that they’re doing that in private life as well. So they can prioritize their responsibilities, let’s say, regarding their families, regarding their child, regarding their wives regarding their friends, so they are practicing their free time with everyone. And this is when it comes to the challenge. Did I did it well, and sometimes I need to make a decision, which is not beneficial for others.

Michael Hingson ** 08:37
So you had mentioned that a lot of times they they know, they’re wealthy and so on, but they’re not necessarily happy? How do you how do you? How do they deal with that? Or how to how do you help them deal with that?

Djuradj Caranovic ** 08:50
The best way of dealing is to understanding what they can control and what they cannot control. And then what they cannot control to leave it as is and then focus on what they can control. Usually, the things are that they are closely involved in their everyday life with business stuff, and then it’s very challenging to organize personal life and not to reflect on their business part of the life. So, in practice, we are trying now to utilize all the resources they have, and is it delegating? Is it now AI is the technology is it finding some other ways and trying to combine as much as possible personal time for them, so they can control their personal time in a way they can schedule more with their families and they can focus more or the children or something, what they want to do with their time. And it’s very long term agenda from one part and they are not so patient. So we need to create micro motivations with them, which means we need to utilize, it’s not like days or hours is basically minutes. And it’s very special to them that you need to utilize every minute in your day, how to focus on what actually want to do in that particular time. So it’s very challenging to understand their way of thinking and what is suitable for them, and not as a traditional therapy, to have some tools or to have some known structure and then put it on that path. So you need to customize the path and you need to customize the way of doing things with them. And you need to fully understand that they are not leaving challenging life and not leaving. They’re having a feeling of abundance all the time. But they need abundance of the time for their loving ones. And this is the focus we what we are now creating is feeling of abundance with their Lovings.

Michael Hingson ** 11:22
So a lot of happiness issue comes when they’re able to recognize Yeah, I’m very good at earning money, I make a lot of money. And that’s wonderful. But there’s more to life than that, and working with family, and spending more time with family and taking control of personal time and recognizing the value that that brings. That’s, that’s a lot of what will make them better people, I would would think you’re saying yes.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 11:55
And additional on top of it. Many of the decisions for them are difficult decisions. Let’s say that, I need to prioritize my work beside of my children, which means I will see less my children, and I will be more on the work, which is not so usual, and it’s not. So let’s say in the real world, you will have a lot of judgments to dealing with that. But not everybody understand the amount of responsibility they have towards the world. They’re living, let’s say, some of them are hiring, like 20,000 people. So they’re responsible for the 20,000 people. And it’s not easy decision to privatize 20,000 employees in one way, or to privatize, I don’t know, spending half an hour with my child. How do they deal with that? badly? Badly. And actually, they’re trying somehow to steal the time, you know, they’re pushing to have 25th hour in a day. And they’re trying to combine things and they’re trying to be as close as possible to the families physically at least. And then they will pick a time for their children or wives or family matters, not just the work related stuff. Because their day is planned not like today, usually some of them they have planned like two years ahead. So so it’s not like I can relate my schedule in one or two months is just BS, you know, it’s upfront one or two years. So you need to schedule a lot upfront and to understand that their way of living and responsibilities are long term, not the short term one.

Michael Hingson ** 13:56
Can they deal with things like hiring 20,000 people? Can they deal with that better if they do a better job of delegating responsibility and find people they can trust to do a lot of it so that they can really devote time to the other things that are going to make them happy as well? Exactly.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 14:17
Trust is a big part of them. Trust is a big part of them, and they need to be there. It’s very difficult to gain the trust from that kind of people because you’re used to

Michael Hingson ** 14:30
it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. They’re not used to trust. And I like something else that you said, which is all about learning to focus on the things that you can control also, and not worrying about the things that you can’t. I know having survived the World Trade Center and afterward, I’m beginning to talk about it. That was one of the common things that I began to discuss a lot because we are so afraid of some Any things and most of the time, we have absolutely no control over them. And we really ought to learn not to worry about those things because we don’t have control over them, we’re not going to have an effect on them. And, and it’s time that we learn to let those things go and focus on the things that we can, because it will make us a lot happier, and will really be able to deal with the control.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 15:23
Yes, exactly. And what actually I’m dealing with is, today, the average point of view is from some sort of perfection. So either it’s good or bad. And to get to that point that you are aware of what you can or cannot control. And that’s transition from putting some things that okay, I’m fine with that I cannot control and putting some things fine, I can control this. It’s a long journey. And it’s very difficult one. And there is many attempting challenges regarding every individual that I have on my sessions, and they need a lot of time to find their own authentic path, how to deal with it. So basically, they are having gone that path, a lot of mistakes as well. And they have a lot of trains, how to do it. And my job actually is to support them that they endure during that process.

Michael Hingson ** 16:27
How do you teach people to be more open to trusting and creating trusting relationships? Actually,

Djuradj Caranovic ** 16:36
it’s a practical way to teach people for that. So I currently, the best way how to do it, is to have this micro macro a micro motivation, which is some kind of homework. And then to start with the things that it’s not so dependable or not, so have high value impact in your life, let’s say in the store, to gain the recommendation from unknown people, or you are asking advice for someone you need online from some expert or something like that. And then you’re trying to prove that he is right, or actually that his advice or her advice is beneficial for you. And this kind of small steps, steps actually building trust with you and your system to recognize what is trustworthy for you and what is not. So I’m actually pointing out that this calibration and the system is if something trustworthy or not, it’s with you or not with them, basically, because first people want to see and somehow are 14 the trust with outsiders and not with themselves, and then putting that system back on them. The best thing or the most responsible thing for that is to have the ownership of your mistakes and your decisions. And this is the difficult part so you can own your mistakes first, then you can gain trust from others, at least in your

Michael Hingson ** 18:19
life. Yeah, I know, I talk a lot about working with dogs. I’ve had eight guide dogs in my life starting back in 1964. So it’s a long time ago. But one of the things that I learned a lot of people talk about dogs saying that dogs love unconditionally. And I think that there’s a lot of truth to that I think that dogs do. But what dogs don’t do is trust unconditionally. But the difference between people and dogs, I believe, is that dogs are unless something incredibly horrible traumatizes them, dogs tend to be a whole lot more open to trust, then people do people are always going well, what’s the agenda, you’ve got a hidden agenda or whatever, and they are very suspicious. Dogs are more open to trust. And I think there’s a lot that we could learn from them about that. Because if they’re if they if they convey the message to you, they’re hoping to trust which they do. And you’re wise enough to experience that and see that, that you can establish an incredible bond, which is what I and other blind people do with with guide dogs when we really understand the whole idea of trust. But it starts with the dogs being open to trust, which is something that’s very hard for us to do, especially nowadays where there’s so many crazy things happening in the world and we’ve got to get over that.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 19:45
Yes, actually, the dogs are a very good example because the dogs are teaching us how to love by actions and not by words because I have a dog as well as Second of all, the dogs are teaching us how to cherish the now moment. So not the past, not the future, I will do it later, it doesn’t function well with the dogs. And as well, they are teaching us because most of the dogs we will outlive, then it’s teaching us how to cherish the time we have with them and to have these rich experiences during the day with them. So it’s, it’s similar with people. If you have the awareness of your time, and that it’s not given it, you need to experience the gain experience through your day as long as possible. Because through them, you’ll be learning a lot. And this is what people currently use forgiving, or forgetting that they have very little amount of time freely. Most of them are on the work, then we have eight hours asleep, then we have some agenda regarding if you have family, surround the kids, and then you have one or two hour basically for yourself. And we are so easily giving away that watching TV or having some passive things to do, and not actually starting to building that control part of our lives, which we can control at least couple of hours or half an hour at least.

Michael Hingson ** 21:42
Yeah, and I, I hear exactly what you’re saying. And they’re the dogs are great teachers, even though they may or may not think so. And one of the things that I think dogs are great at teaching us if we choose to understand them, and observe them and work with them is they’re great at teaching us how to build teams. Because like with with me and my guide dogs, the dog has a job to do and I have a job to do the dogs job is to make sure that I walk safely. And of course, that means the dog has to walk safely. But it’s not the dog’s job to know where to go and how to get there. And I don’t want the dog to know that it’s really important that we each respect each other’s job. And dogs. Dogs teach us that which is so wonderful.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 22:33
Yes, yes, yes. Well, I think if we allow people or animals around us, we can learn a lot. But we are so focused on on some what’s next, and not on now. And this is the issue.

Michael Hingson ** 22:54
I had the pleasure of interviewing someone fairly recently. And we were talking about this whole idea of personal time, work time, and so on. And what she said was that she is very specific and volitional about making sure that she deals with her personal time she deals with her children and her husband, and she has made that a priority. And I think that’s part of the issue is that she has worked so hard at it, that it has become a habit to to do the things that allow her to spend time with children with husband, her personal time, and at the same time still be able to do the things that she might have to do and so far as work is concerned. But she has made that decision to make that happen.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 23:48
Yes, exactly. We need to be a little brave to make the decision because for every decision, there is a price. And we just need to have the awareness what the price and what will impact on us. And that’s it. Right.

Michael Hingson ** 24:14
Well, you went to college, right? Yeah, yeah. Right. And when you got out of college, what did you do?

Djuradj Caranovic ** 24:22
I started as in the financial department, and I was financial controller. And that allowed me to learn everything about budgeting, PNL and financial side of the business. After that, I was project and Product Manager. And for that, that allowed me how to understand the business actually is building the market side of the business and how they are building the products and how they’re organizing the processes regarding the products. And after that I was a change manager, which means I was dealing more on the people side regarding the cultural change and organizational change. And that bring me closer to the people to understand how they are gaining, or pushing the resilience, taller the innovation and some new processes, some change, because the natural way of the people is too afraid to be afraid of the change. And to be a little bit more aware what will happen because we are creatures of the routines. And that’s actually corporate part of my life allowed me to be a business coach, because I fully understand the business side and fully understand what is what the what are the needs and components to have a successful business. However, I believed as well that not so many people organizations are dealing enough with the people side, so I trust myself and focus more on the people side. And then my psychotherapy education was actually encasing me how to understand their thinking and how to actually create the tools that better help those in place. And after that, I was starting to have these in house trainings, and to deal more with the corporations. But I was understanding that it’s, I’m sharing my knowledge or impacting only them. And then after a while, then I was starting to deal with CEOs and with higher management, because then through one session, you can influence a lot of other direct people. And you can influence the way of thinking on the top. And it was very faster way in the corporate environment to have the influence immediately of some changes. Well,

Michael Hingson ** 27:09
you have, you have a lot of background in finance, and as you say, behavioral economics, which is an interesting blend of skills and knowledge. Yes,

Djuradj Caranovic ** 27:20
yes. Because I was always thinking to myself, and I know that when I was searching for my therapist, I was searching someone who will understand that I want to work and I like my job. However, I need to a little bit help to balance it, not to be more focused on the job and not to be focused on my personal life and emotional life, however, to be realistic about it, so it not to be in a way that you know, it’s you should be working less and more focused on your emotional life because you will be happier. Because in that point of time, I didn’t know how and I wasn’t aware how exactly it will influence my life. And then because of that fear, I was not fully, let’s say, motivated to go that path. And that’s one of the things why I started to go in some different direction, because I’m starting with feeling and I’m starting with understanding that the in the real life, we need to work, the financial freedom is very challenging to help as well. We have a lot of decisions in the past that influence influence that our now as well. We have currently some decisions we cannot do immediately, we need a little bit to build ourselves, to change the job to change the environment. To focus more on ourselves, we need to create this space for that. And my way of therapy actually is more realistic one, I want to say it more pro practice one, which means I’m more focusing on functional way of living than how it should be in some perfect environment.

Michael Hingson ** 29:27
Well, you you make it very clear that it is important for us to find ways no matter who we are, no matter how wealthy we are, we need to find ways to have time for ourselves or for the things that are important to us or should be important to us outside of work. Work is great, but that’s not all there is in the world and and I know that there are so many people that think that well, I’ll work and I’ll deal with things later on and it doesn’t it does. That’s not the way to do it. It doesn’t work that What

Djuradj Caranovic ** 30:00
exactly? Yeah, exactly. But as well, we need to understand them why they are thinking that way? Because there is there is reasonable arguments why, who is focusing more on the work, because he has a loan to pay, he has installments for the easy because the family, he wants to provide the best for his family. So it’s not like just to judge them because of their decisions or to say, Yes, you are currently more focused on your work, you should be more focused on your emotional side or the family side. And then let’s do it right away. No, you need to understand what is in real life possible to do it, and then create an environment or the frame, which he will not lose himself in that transition.

Michael Hingson ** 30:52
It’s a balance, and it will, it will always be a balance, but we need to balance it is a unique balance. Yes. It’s the unique balance for everyone. You said something a little while ago, I want to go back to I love to talk about it. You said that. We in life, the natural thing is to resist change. And we need to learn about that. Is that do you think a natural thing that we’re that is hardwired into us? Or is that something that we learned? Because everybody keeps talking about? I hate to change? Is it a learned behavior? Or is it really natural to the point of view that what we have to do is to rewire our brains from a natural thing of resisting change.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 31:37
Actually, it’s called cough, because our cells are built that way to preserve energy. And every change every creating some other neuro parts in our brain actually are using more energy than it should be. And then our body resist it, because the body is built to save the energy. This is the biology biological part. And regarding the learning the change, of course, it’s not just the learning is our past experience regarding how we communicate with ourselves. So if we was consistent with ourselves, in the past experience, it’s easier for us to change. If you weren’t not, it’s difficult for us because our mind knows that, let’s say if he said, I will now walk a dog. And I don’t do it. My brain is registering that, that I thought to myself that I will do something and I didn’t do. So this past micro experiences are a little bit blocking us how to do it and and how to change and to be willing to change as fast as we want.

Michael Hingson ** 32:55
Yeah, it is something that we can learn to do. Yes. So. So given your expertise in finance, and the other things that you do behavioral economics, for example. So how is all of that affected? How you work? And how does that make you function better as a wealth therapist, and I want to really talk about the whole concept of wealth therapy. And what is that? Exactly? Yeah.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 33:33
First thing, how it goes. Most of those ultra wealth, people are sharing this many of their stuff. And then you cannot immediately talk with them. You have a couple of people first to talk with. And then they’re like filtering, are you suitable for them or not? And basically, the first thing is you need to understand their business side, you need to understand what they’re doing, why they’re doing that. And from let’s say, from which way their wealth is coming from, is it generational wealth, is it something they build their ourselves? Is there something that is family wise? So you need first to understand that the second thing you need to understand is their schedule, why their schedule is such a busy schedule and why they’re not having so free time for something they would want to and not to perceive them as successful people not perceive them as people who has wealth, but to perceive and understand why their schedule and why they routines are the way they are. And from that point, you need a little bit more understanding on the business side on the base. His processes of the how actually the company is functioning in why they are the crucial part of it. This is the first part. The second part is when you are dealing with them, you are having, let’s say, one hour in one month. So you need to utilize that one hour fully. It’s not like every week, we will have a session and then he will talk. No, you need to be very practical with them. And to understand this fixation of the now they have, you need to understand every part surrounding them and their environment. So that’s why you need to have this understanding of behavior of the consumers and the customers, you need to understand the business processes, you need to do understand the decision of the human making. And then you need as well to understand what they want to accomplish. And they’re usually not so patient people. So you need to have like, step by step guidance, exactly what you’re expecting for them. So they can behave and put in their schedule, and all of it to combine into one, you don’t have to learn just as a psychotherapist, and you don’t have to learn you’re just the behavioral economist, you need actually to have the experience intense parts of the puzzles. So you can be most effective. You

Michael Hingson ** 36:38
have to relate to them, and they have to recognize that you really relate to them. Yes,

Djuradj Caranovic ** 36:43
you need, they need to trust you that you exactly know why they are doing something.

Michael Hingson ** 36:50
Yeah. Well, the it does get back to trust and in every sense of the word. Well, so how long have you been out of the corporate world as such, and and, and running and operating your own business as well therapist and business coach.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 37:09
Regarding business coach, I’m I having like 11 years of experience and and I’m, I’m probably combine that with my corporate work. Regarding therapist, I’m not so experienced in it, I have two years of experience. And I’m trying now to comprehensive it with additional learnings and additional knowledge that I can conquer through some, let’s say supervisions. And through some modalities, they are more focused on wealth therapist and that part of the world, let’s say. But however, I don’t believe that they don’t need just another one therapist, they are not searching for that they’re searching for the person who can somehow walk along them. So they call it they have a saying they want high level partner. This is the same game in their environment. And they want someone who will walk alongside them and understand the business side, the private side, the family side, and their personal personal deep personal site, like a character site. And for that, you need a lot of focus. And you need a lot to researches because it’s not common. When they ask a question you need to find the solution and not to offer them some generalization or explanation. They don’t want that they want the solution. So you need to customize the solution especially for them. And then you need to utilize all the resources you have, like one professional one, emotional one. Learning from other clients, learning from my colleagues, I’m utilizing it all reading the books, whatever I can combine, and they actually want to debt that you stamp cow, build yourself enough that you can influence and they can trust you of your influence to their everyday life.

Michael Hingson ** 39:31
It you have an interesting road that you have to walk because as a coach, typically, your job isn’t to give them the answers but to guide them to discovering the answers for themselves. But as a therapist, you’re more involved in in helping them with answers. So it is an interesting challenge to balance those two.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 39:53
Exactly. So they don’t want the therapist to ask them questions and then they think of it because they don’t have free time in their mind from that. They want a quick solutions. And he wants how what I can do now to be a little bit better. This is it. So they don’t want some perfect solutions. They don’t want some Yes, you can narratives. They don’t want some emotional support to guide them through the process. They want a quick solutions. But

Michael Hingson ** 40:25
it doesn’t work that way.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 40:29
Yes and no, you okay have a quick fixes. And you can ensure to feel better, and you can in short, or fix some things. But you are not fixing the core issues, and you are not fixing the big picture, actually. However, you need to be a little bit tricky with them. And you need a little bit to have ability to manipulate them. So you’re offering a short term solutions, but actually what you’re doing, you’re building a big picture. So after a while, they understand why they did it in that way. So you need to be a little bit to outsmart them and still be in every quarter be before them. So they can be very trustful regarding the final outcome.

Michael Hingson ** 41:20
Yeah. That’s an interesting and probably probably a really good way to put it. Well, how about for you, you? You’re you’re doing a lot of work? Is there a story you can tell us or some pivotal moment that really cause you to operate the way you do today? I mean, something probably was happened that that gave you the inspiration to do what you do.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 41:47
Yeah, actually, in my life, I was first not so satisfied with myself. And I try the first step is to be better through learning and then I went to NLP, then I went for the coaching then for the psychotherapist. And only in second year of my training regarding the psychotherapist with personal development, which is a little bit different from the therapy because you’re focusing on the issues more they can really reflect others, then you combine to understand that some part of me cannot be changed. And I need to learn how to live with it. And some part of me can be changed. And this is actually the first thing of me that I understood that I will not be as a perfect imagination that you will be better better and better. No, you will be better better and better than yourself yesterday, but not in this general public view as it is advertised. This is the first thing the second thing I really I am as a man, very practical. And I really wanted to find for me, the therapist who is practically and who can help me with my self and my personal development, how to gain it more step by step and not to ask my myself only the questions, and then to wait for the answer. This is the part of it I was waiting for. And I had a difficulty to find one. And I found a woman could help me a lot. And actually what I was striving in that point of time is when you are thinking like small percentage people really change and you’re listening that only, I don’t know, 1% of the people who are going to therapy really changed. And you have the talk like that. And I was some sort of narcissistic way to be that part of the people. However, I learned that I don’t need to be that part of items, no 1% I can be very general just to be aware of what I can do and what I cannot. And what I’m not feeling that it’s good for the others to be aware of it and to control it. And basically that point of view I was very cherished about because I think it’s very realistic. Because now in the days you have too many judgment is it not cystic? Is it like this? So is it toxic? Is it I don’t know what they’re using on the social networks now, and it’s not so simple that you are good or bad, actually is the space between what you should deal with and every day is day four for itself and you can choose in that day. Should you be good or bad for You, how do you feel about it? Because many of the people now understand through many clients are not feeling good because of their bad decisions. They’re feeling bad of it, but they did it anyway. So I am learning them, how to be aware that in the next situation that they’re feeling eager to do something bad and to have the bad decision, to be aware of it and to stop it. And it’s not that he can change or she can change not to have this feeling to go that way. Or everybody’s perfect. So actually, the therapy is lowering or hiring the probability of doing something good or bad.

Michael Hingson ** 45:41
So I hear what you’re saying. And there has to be a lot that went into you getting to the point where you are able to articulate that do you do a lot of and do you currently encourage people to do introspection that is taking time every day to think about what they did that day? And what they could have done better? Or even in the successful things? Could they have done some of those things better? Do you do really encourage people to no matter what is going on take some time at some point it during the day to think about what they’re doing and why it works or doesn’t work?

Djuradj Caranovic ** 46:24
Exactly. So basically, the first step, at least the clients who are coming to me, is they’re having the feeling that they’re not drinking enough. So my day is not so let’s say interesting, I know she has so much enjoyable experiences, I’m wake up going to work then coming home than I thought or watching TV or doing something going to gym at least. And they have these routines, and they are not happy about it. And actually, the first thing is to first step for them is to accept that it’s okay not to feel you know, everyday that should be like Disneyland, this is the first step. The second step is that you understand why it is like that, what is the behind it, and how you can introduce some interesting things and to be more brave about searching what what is interesting for them. And on that journey, they will make a lot of bad decisions, they will make bad plans. But at least in a bad plan, you can focus on mistakes, and not focus on yourself. And basically, this is the shortcut. And then after a while, three or six months, it depends on the issues. They are then willing to accept now I’m satisfied how I organize my day. And now I need to enhance myself to have more richer experience in my life. And this is the general path. Yeah.

Michael Hingson ** 48:04
Well, it’s it’s interesting. Do you do you find that people resist introspection, especially the more wealthy they are, the more money they have, and and all that the harder it is to get them to recognize that there’s a need to do that introspection? Yes,

Djuradj Caranovic ** 48:24
because they have a really good arguments that they’re right. So basically, I had the client and he said, I’m such a good people. And actually, he was manipulating people with money, because they understand the needs of those people. And then he buy the solution. Is it the new house? Is it helping with their shelter needs? Is it helping with their families or something like that, but they’re buying the solution to that people? And they didn’t recognize that as a manipulation. They recognize that as good man. And it took a really bold, you need to be very brave and bold to to push an influence that kind of people to understand that that kind of manipulation may be outside is perceived as a good man, but because they’re not feeling it for for them. It’s not being a good man. And this is what it comes. When

Michael Hingson ** 49:31
are you able to go ahead?

Djuradj Caranovic ** 49:33
Yes. Okay. So they need to understand first to listen their inner self, and to understand what for them is a good man and not for others. And because of their status and influences. They are taught from young years how to be good in the public, but not so much taught how to stay good with themselves. Were

Michael Hingson ** 49:59
you successful in getting him to recognize that and getting him to step back. And then

Djuradj Caranovic ** 50:05
it was very funny story because it took us four months for that. And after four months, he finally didn’t do something. And he was feeling awful. And he was feeling like, but why I didn’t do that. And I said, because he was honest to yourself. And in from that point of time, actually, we gain trust. Until now he was testing me a lot. And he was arguing that he his way of doing things is better for himself. But after a while, we gain back to helping others, but to be honest about it. So I’m helping others because I can, and not because I’m a good man, I’m this is totally different things.

Michael Hingson ** 50:57
I’m curious, he, you said he was testing you a lot, and so on, why did he even consider working with you as a therapist, and as a coach, if he was that way, because

Djuradj Caranovic ** 51:08
my modality of therapy is very direct. And I am not allowing anyone to talk something in which he doesn’t believe. And I don’t allow my clients on session to talk something which I don’t see relevant for the issue they come came from. So I’m really narrowing the frame, and putting them in the corner, as they said. So they cannot get out with arguments and as much intellectual people is he can combine Vegas, why he’s doing this as the way he’s doing. So this is what he liked. This is the first thing. And the second thing is because I was understanding his business way of life, let’s say, and business part of how the business is influencing influencing Kim, and what will be without the business part. And he really, he told me that not everybody understood in that rough way roadway of things. And he likes it because usually are trying to because of his status, I’m trying to be a little bit more softer and polite and a little bit more understanding of their behavior. And I’m trying not to be I’m trying to mirror indeed, and to be raw as possible. What

Michael Hingson ** 52:45
was it that made him decide to even talk to you in the first place?

Djuradj Caranovic ** 52:52
Actually, it was quite a coincidence, because some of their staff Googled me on the LinkedIn. And they found me on the LinkedIn. And then first interview was with him. And he really liked that I wasn’t selling humanity, I was actually talking to him like, he is the client, not his boss. And I was very affirmed what I can offer and what they cannot. And he really liked this practical and simple way of doing things. This is the first thing then the second thing was, he was really amazed about my understanding exactly. Of his organization of the lives and his priorities. And then after I had the first interview with him, I was very direct with him. And I said, Look, you this is the questions what you’re asking me is wrong. You should ask these questions if you want the answers. But again, I don’t know. Do you want the answer or you want to listen what you expected me to say. And, and he was very honored about my directness, and at the same time. And he was actually shutting me off because we talked over the phone. And he was I cannot talk with you now I’m very angry by and I was actually feeling that I lost the client because of it. But one week later, he called me and he said nobody talked to me like this. I want to cry.

Michael Hingson ** 54:34
So he finally decided to take a step back and think about it and probably there might be a little bit of he was really looking for what you offered all along. He just wasn’t ready to admit it. Yes,

Djuradj Caranovic ** 54:47
exactly. So that’s why you need to be very transparent about what you can offer and you can you must be very direct and it’s very difficult because even I have this are fighting me? Because I’m aware of his rage. And

Michael Hingson ** 55:06
tell me about your book. You’re you’re writing a book, it’s about to be published. Yes, they’ll tell me all about that. And what is it going to be about? And what do you want people to take away from it?

Djuradj Caranovic ** 55:16
Actually the book, everybody around me, my friends and family. And when I was talking with people, they said, You should write a book with your experiences in life, it’s very interesting. And I was not so sure that I’m able to write the book that I will be good at it. And I wrote, I think now, it took me three years to write it almost three years. And for me, it was very rare, some sort of retrospective of my life. However, I as well input, how should be done and not how I did it. So they have like a cheat sheet regarding some situations in my life. The book is called the book that changed me. And actually, it should be like personal development, guidance, with not my experience and thoughts, but my awareness that there is something that that is bigger than me. And this is the sharing the knowledge. And with sharing my experience, with my professional combining with my professional knowledge, I was able to combine the both, you know, like their biography from one side, and then some solutions and some behavior from the professional side. And after the three years, I went to some publishers, and I was rejected, and to be totally transparent, I was feeling really hurt and vulnerable because of it. And then after a while, I talked with my supervision, and the institution, when I finished my education, and they said, Come on, it can be too bad to me to read it. And I said to them, and after two weeks, or three of them say, Look, this is perfect. This is so original, we really liked it, we would like to publish it. And they said, Okay, let’s go with that. And what I really liked about it, the way how they review it, they send it to the sticks. outers have some similar topics. And then they got the feedback. And they said, if the four of them said, this is a good one we will publish. And if not, then you need to change something. And actually, they I put it in my book as well, the all six videos, four of them was very, let’s say, I really cherish the words they put it. And it was very beneficial for me. And two of them was no throw, because it was my first book. And they told me that maybe I should first start with ebook or something less than a fully book. But again, I said, Look, I have this in front of me. Yeah, so basically, it will be published first week of February, something like that. It will be on Amazon. It will be mostly there will be audio and digital copy as well. Oh, good. And I

Michael Hingson ** 58:45
sorry, I say good. It’ll be audio as well. I’m looking

Djuradj Caranovic ** 58:49
forward to Yeah. And And actually, what I’m trying now to feel what will be the reaction from the public. So I’m eager to have the second edition which will be incorporated with the feedback because I think the books will be something live and so be a little bit non biased. Damaged by outer but as well influenced by others who read it. So this is my way of thinking.

Michael Hingson ** 59:20
It’s interesting. It’s an interesting title of the book that changed me. What did you learn? What did you learn and discover it by yourself while writing it?

Djuradj Caranovic ** 59:29
I discovered that I was very lucky to go through some experiences which are very hard, like changing my relationship with my parents, like changing and gaining awareness of myself. Like understanding for me, what is love? What is emotion? In which way I like our bond to love in betray, I want to be loved this is totally different. I as well understand in which way I can influence people, but not because of my ego. But because I want to share myself, and not to be the guy who helped. But to share myself. This is totally different. And as well in somehow structured my experiences, so I can now pull it and use it as resources for my sessions and with my clients.

Michael Hingson ** 1:00:33
Well, it’s a testimony to self examination and introspection by any standard since you, you wrote the book. And obviously, you had to give a lot of thought to it. So that’s pretty, that’s pretty good. Yes,

Djuradj Caranovic ** 1:00:47
yes, I hope everybody will like it, because there is a practical examples of everyday life and everyday situations we all have, especially in conflict wise, especially in what questions to ask myself, especially how to support myself. So there is a tricky question of understanding and not judging. And as well, it’s a practical way of understanding not to have like a perfect model, you shouldn’t be like this. And you should be gaining your parts over that. No, you should be as you want. And you should have your own paths. Because I, I want us to gain awareness that actually in your life, you are not going on your path, you’re actually building your path, and that you have this ability to build your path.

Michael Hingson ** 1:01:47
What do you see, as far as trends in the future for wealth therapy and personal development?

Djuradj Caranovic ** 1:01:54
I see many help from the technology part, especially artificial intelligence, because you can automate it some questions, and you can automate it in a way that you immediately have some correspondence regarding, usually the that kind of people are wanting the solution now. So after the sessions, or between the sessions, they like to call you or to send you a text message, or something. And then artificial intelligence helped me to prioritize their needs, because I cannot be available all the time. This is the first thing. The second thing is actually many of them are now understanding that their role model of their children’s, and they’re asking questions about how can it cause the secession? How can the the success proceed and stressor to the children not the same way they deal with it. So they are now more aware and focused about the parenting, they’re now more of a and focused about how to perceive their own emotions. And what I really like is they are now more focused about the same kinds of spiritual development, or I call it spiritual intelligence means something greater than them, which is very crucial for them. And

Michael Hingson ** 1:03:29
it’s important for them to recognize that and for all of us to recognize that that spiritual intelligence and spiritual growth is definitely a part of our lives. Yeah, so So very quickly, tell me a little bit more about this idea of artificial intelligence and how it’s helping you.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 1:03:46
Currently, I’m recording or the sessions, and I’m creating, like summary of the average bullet points. And it helped them because he can relate to them as the notes. And then if he doesn’t remember something, or he can, he can recall, I don’t know, some set sessions before, let’s say three months ago, so it’s faster to them to gain that. The second thing is, I’m now starting to develop a little bit of behavior analysis, which means when you have a session, I’m focusing more how it’s nonverbal communication he’s doing or she’s doing, and then focusing to show them through the video and to argument them with the notes. What is influencing that and how it’s perceiving their way of doing things or their nonverbal communication? Because most of them are not aware of nonverbal communication. Usually they’re only aware of the verbal one.

Michael Hingson ** 1:04:50
And AI is helping you create the notes and create a

Djuradj Caranovic ** 1:04:53
friendly blink automatically and I’m a human, and I cannot perceive everything thing, but AI can receive, like 60 points. 64 points in a second. Yes. Which means it’s, I don’t know, triple me

Michael Hingson ** 1:05:14
allows you to spread yourself around a little more. Yeah, yeah. Well, well, George, I want to thank you for taking the time with this if people want to reach out to you and and talk with you maybe learn more about you as a coach or a therapist, and so on. How do they do that? Then

Djuradj Caranovic ** 1:05:30
find me on LinkedIn, this is the best and the fastest way to find me on LinkedIn. I have other social networks, but I’m not so frequent on them.

Michael Hingson ** 1:05:40
So what is your LinkedIn name? How do they find you on LinkedIn?

Djuradj Caranovic ** 1:05:44
Djuradj Caranovic, he calls basically they can dress type, wealth therapist time, there is only a couple of guys with that title so they can find me very easily.

Michael Hingson ** 1:05:57
Can you spell that for me? Well, therapist, therapist, okay. I was thinking Djuradj Caranovic

Djuradj Caranovic ** 1:06:04
Djuradj is D j u r a d j C a r a n o v i c

Michael Hingson ** 1:06:13
Okay. Well, I hope people will reach out. And I really appreciate all of your time, and the insights that you’ve given us. So thank you very much for being here. And also to you listening, wherever you are. Thanks for listening as well. I think that Djuradj has given us a lot.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 1:06:33
I’m very honored to be part of this.

Michael Hingson ** 1:06:36
Well, if any of you would like to reach out, please do so to church. And if you’d like to reach out to me, I’d love to hear from you. You can reach me at Michaelhi , m i c h a e l h i at accessibe A C C E S I B E.com. Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. Michael Hingson is m i c h a e l h i n g s o n love to hear from you and Djuradj for you. And for you listening. If any of you know of anyone else who you think ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, I would really appreciate you letting us know. And we will, we will get them on. So that would be great. And wherever you’re listening, please give us a five star rating. We appreciate that a great deal. Thank you very much for doing

Djuradj Caranovic ** 1:07:26
something for your audience as well. Whoever contact me from your audience and say that he learned from it from the podcast. I he will have first session free.

Michael Hingson ** 1:07:40
There you go. So if you’d like a session, just say you heard about Djuradj from unstoppable mindset. Super, I appreciate you doing that and I hope people will reach out. Well, Djuradj thank you once more for being here and for taking all the time to be with us today.

Djuradj Caranovic ** 1:07:58
Thank you very much.

Michael Hingson ** 1:08:06
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.