Episode 214 – Unstoppable Solutions Navigator and Servant Leader with Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills

I would like to introduce you to Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills. She had a decent childhood, for the most part. She was raped and also gang raped, but as she learned to be unstoppable and gained strength from these experiences, she grew into a fierce advocate for women and then later for other marginalized groups. Her story is quite amazing. To me, the most amazing thing is that she is quite willing to share her story if it will help others. She will tell us all about her philosophy on the subject.
 
For a time she worked in the insurance arena and then went into other endeavors. Over the past 20 years she has been a coach, trainer and consultant to over 2,000 companies and, as she says, she has assisted countless more in various ways.
 
Barbara’s story and life lessons demonstrate how someone can make the choice to be unstoppable. She lives in Mount Loral, NJ with her family. If you ever meet her, don’t mess with her as she is quite proficient in various martial arts styles as you can read in her bio. I hope you gain wisdom and knowledge from our conversation. Barbara Anne is a gem and a wonderful person to talk with. I hope you feel the same.
 
About the Guest:
 
Barbara Anne is a “Solutions Navigator” and servant leader who has directly assisted over 2,000 businesses in the past two decades and provided training, coaching, and technical assistance to countless more companies, teams, entrepreneurs, and individuals throughout her career. She is the founder and owner of Purpose-Filled Solutions and Evolutions LLC, a business consulting and leadership coaching company that partners with people, leaders, companies, and agencies to find their "why" (core purpose), identify resources, navigate challenges, change mindsets, and develop and implement plans to achieve their visions of success, with an emphasis on civility, inclusion, equity, and diversity (CIED), her unique alternative to current DEI approaches.
Barbara Anne also serves as Director of Compliance & Engagement for Cooperative Business Assistance Corporation (CBAC) in Camden, NJ, and hosts “What The Why?!? with Barbara Anne,” a weekly talk show on RVN Television, Roku, and more. Before her current roles, she served as the Management Analyst and Community Liaison for the U.S. White House Promise Zone Initiative in Camden, NJ, stationed at the U.S. Department of Housing & Urban Development (HUD), and as Supervisor of Lender Relations and Economic Development/Women’s Business Ownership Representative for the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA) New Jersey District Office, and in other leadership roles in the corporate, non-profit, and municipal government arenas.
Barbara Anne holds an M.S. in Executive Leadership, a B.A. in Political Science/ Honors with concentrations in Pre-Law and Women’s Studies, and an A.A. in Liberal Arts with a concentration in Business Communications. She has completed multiple professional designations and adult continuing education certificates, including her Professional Certified Coach (PCC) certification with the International Coaching Federation (ICF), Certified Professional Coach in Executive Coaching from RCSJ, and certifications in talent optimization and implementing Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) in the workplace.
Barbara Anne serves in volunteer leadership capacities with ICF’s NJ Charter Chapter and Braven, and she is a member of ICF Global, the Association of Talent Development (ATD), CDFI Women’s Network, and other professional and civic organizations. The National Association of Women’s Business Owners (NAWBO) – South Jersey Chapter honored her with their 2016 “Women’s Advocate of the Year” award.  She is also a Second-Degree Black Belt and member of the Okinawa Goju-Ryu Kenshi-Kai Karate-Jutsu Kobu-Jutsu Association and trains in multiple other martial arts styles.
 
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Ways to connect with Barbara:
 
Email: info@Purposefilledsolutionsandevolutions.com
Phone: 856-313-0609
Website: https://www.purposefilledsolutionsandevolutions.com/ 
Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bgardenhiremills/
Purpose-Filled Solutions & Evolutions’ Social Media Links Through LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/purposefilledcoach
"What The Why?!? with Barbara Anne" On-Demand: https://rvntelevision.com/tv-show/what-the-why/ 
 
 
 
About the Host:
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.
 
Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.
 
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/
 
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https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/
 
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Transcription Notes

Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.
 
Michael Hingson ** 01:21
Well, and hello, once again. Welcome to unstoppable mindset. I’m your host, Michael Hingson. Or you can call me Mike, it’s okay. Just Oh, I hate to do the joke, just not late for dinner. But anyway, here we are. And today we get to talk with Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills. Barbara Ann is in New Jersey has an interesting story and things that she’s doing as a coach and other work that she is doing. And also, I’m going to give it away and she’ll talk about it anyway. Barbara has had a couple of bouts with COVID. And actually just got through with one but she has a lot of wisdom about long COVID And actually already and just talking with her before we started this I learned some things I didn’t know. And knowledge is always useful thing to have. So Barbara Anne welcome to unstoppable mindset.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 02:12
Thank you so much. I am super happy and honored to be asked to be your guest today. I’m really looking forward to our conversation.
 
Michael Hingson ** 02:23
Well, then we ought to have one right. So tell me about maybe the the younger barber and growing up and all that let’s start there. It’s always good as they say to start at the beginning somewhere.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 02:34
Yes. Start at the beginning. So younger Pribram was born in the late 60s to Maryland and Joseph, a biracial couple. So when my parents got married, still wasn’t even legal in some states. And I was born right here in New Jersey, Jersey girl my whole life. And my my five foot three Caucasian mom and my six foot three. Black dad, African American reef. Yeah, they met when they were in college. And while my mother’s family was very, very not in any way any color in the family tree has recently improved by one to three me my father’s family was always very integrated. And I was the first of four children. My mother and dad had me and my sister exactly 16 months apart on purpose. I think that’s insane. I can’t even imagine doing that these days. And, and then there was three other siblings that would come along the way. One of whom died shortly after birth because of complications. And it was interesting. I grew up in an apartment complex that wasn’t then but is now officially designated as what you would call affordable housing. And a small little, I never thought of it as rural growing up, but they call it rural. It was Vineland, New Jersey. Ah, and it actually is the biggest city in the state of New Jersey in terms of land size, all 69 square miles of it. And but definitely in southern New Jersey. And this is at a time when a lot of the highways and systems that exist now didn’t even exist in its parts of South Jersey. And it was like its own whole other world. Anybody who has any familiarity with North and South Jersey knows how vastly different the two are the right down to the accents. And you know, we you know, had a good upbringing, the Things were going well, when it’s time for me to go to school, because of the time that it was was you talking about early 70s, I was bussed as part of a program to make sure that they were, you know, equally distributing children aka schools. Which was really interesting. When back in the days before there was cell phones, in fact, my parents had a party line. They accidentally put me on the wrong bus. That was fun when you’re in kindergarten. Yeah. But probably one of the earliest tragic things that would happen to me what happened when I was seven. And it’s interesting, because I, my mom said, I’ve always been a forward planner, I’ve always been very rational, but also very even tempered. And she likes to tell stories about how you know, at a time when I was 14 months, I spilled a bowl of popcorn and I sat there at 14 months old, individually picking up each piece of kernel of corn and putting it back in the bowl. And when I was when I started walking it at nine months, and around 1112 months, we were out walking, and I saw a dandy line and I bent over and I pulled it up, I had no idea that would kill it. I picked it up and I sniffed it, and proceeded to put it right back in its exact place where it was. And so all these years later, she still loves to tell that story because I was very methodical and particular and had my routines and my processes. And then 10 days before Christmas, just after my seventh birthday, my father was killed in a car accident. And here was my mother, at the age of 28, widowed with four biracial children, the oldest of whom was seven and the youngest of whom was only had just been born on October 27. And that would be one of many pivots, in terms of that would define my future going forward. Okay, how
 
Michael Hingson ** 07:09
did you how did your parents, your, your grandparents deal with you? Maybe at the beginning, you said that they on your mom’s side, we’re not really oriented toward having biracial or any color in the family did that mollify at all especially towards you as you grow older,
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 07:30
not till I was much older. In fact, when my dad died, my grandfather, who was an Episcopal priest, refused to let my grandmother even can be with my mother, her grieving daughter, because as far as he was concerned, she was dead to him.
 
Michael Hingson ** 07:51
I have just never comprehended, of course, I’ve been blind my whole life, baby. And I regard it as a blessing. But I’ve just never understood this whole issue of color, and skin color having any significance to anything. It’s just crazy. But
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 08:09
for the most part, it wasn’t even a thing until the mid 1800s. In terms of, you know, I can’t think of his name right now, because I’m coming off of my long COVID relapse, but a British scientist, was the one who kind of artificially constructed and classified race. Yeah. And there were a number of people, including Alexander Graham Bell, who bought into some of those theories. Yeah. And but before that, it really was just more of a familial designation, in terms of what country you are from and royalty was royalty. So they intermixed all the time. You know, there was how we understand things now really, are an artificial construct, which is one of the foundational pieces of what I do in my work as it relates to civility, inclusion and equity and diversity. But in that time, my grandmother didn’t come my aunt didn’t come they were in Florida. My dad’s family. My dad was the youngest of six and he was a sports person he had played for the Eagles, arm team and he played basketball and everybody knew who he was. And his family stepped up and stepped in by her family was non existent. I would finally meet her sister a few years after that, and we have a good relationship. I only ever met my one uncle on her side once and I have a necklace that’s handed down to my mother was. Her maiden name was aptly As in former Prime Minister Attlee of England, and so they were very particular, he was very much. Interestingly, it was almost bad that he married my grandmother. He was very much a white Anglo Saxon Protestant male, who married my mother’s mother, my grandmother, credibly beautiful woman, her name was Ruth Fogarty. And like, parents off the boat Irish, her dad was an Irish house in New Orleans. And, and they had three children, and my mother was the oldest of them. And so dad wasn’t so thrilled and dad ruled the household. And I finally met my grandmother right before I turned 12, because there’s a family necklace that’s handed down through the Fogarty family line to the to the oldest female on their 12th birthday. And so she was permitted to come see us and, and transfer that to me. And then right around the time I turned 16, my grandfather decided to have a change of heart, and that he was wrong. And I would meet him a couple of times between 16 and 19. And then when I was 19, he passed us was very awkward, I agreed to go to the funeral for my mother. But that was probably actually one of the biggest fights we ever had to because I had very strong feelings about being forced to go and mourn someone that had done, what I now understood had been the things that he had done over the course of her life in mind. But I, you know, she she said, incredible person. So my mother, who I’m I’ve ever been, I don’t know who it is, but I don’t like she tends to be much more private. She watches everything I do. But I don’t usually name her for her own privacy reasons. You know, she would raise all four of us on her own, she never remarried, she went back to school, because she dropped out when she married my dad, and then had me, you know, urina. She got married in February of 67. They had me in mid November of 68. So she decided to go back to school, she completed her associate’s then her Bachelor’s than her Master’s. And she went on to teach at the college where she got her nursing degree. And all of that joined the military before age 40, to become a nurse. And for the US Army, reserve corps, so she did a lot of really amazing things on her own, with me, helping out along the way, as the oldest child. So I learned to do a lot of things very young, that I probably wouldn’t really be able to do now, in terms of watching siblings, cooking and cleaning, and things like that, but things that were otherwise really common at the time. And another big part of our lives was the church that we raised in. And because the whole family, my dad’s family, was involved on both sides, my family were involved in the clergy, but the brother and cousins that we were most close to, went to the church where we went to and so they became a huge support system for my mom. And in a very interesting indoctrination process for me, that I would spend the better part of my teens and early 20s trying to undo. So that’s the very early I, you know, we went to a private Christian school on scholarship. And when my mom graduated, they said no more scholarships. So I went to public high school, and did really well. You know, but I felt like I had been kind of thrown into this weird alternative universe where I had been used to being one of the only children of color in an entire school. And now I was in a school that was pseudo integrated. Different kids tended to be tracked based on their intelligence, but also, in part based on their socioeconomic status and, and race. And on my very first day, when I went to go in with the few kids that I didn’t know, into the school cafeteria, I was stopped at the door and I was told that only the white kids ate in there, I had to go to the other cafeteria with the black and Spanish kids. And I was like, what, what are you talking about? And they were like, You eaten here. And that that was not something that my high school fixed for almost another 15 years when they finally decided to assign cafeterias, and eliminate a lot of staff. But other than that, I did choir, I did drama, I did all the things that I loved to learn, had its really great friends. And then couldn’t afford to go to college. Now that my mom was working, I didn’t get enough aid, and I wanted to be a doctor. And so I ended up getting just enough grants to go to community college. And then I went to work full time, and we went to school full time at nights. I went to work for Prudential insurance company, and they paid 90% tuition reimbursement. And I worked there in policyholder services, answering questions for agents for 10 states. Here I was, you know, the ages of 1819 20 ensiling complex insurance questions back when everything was in these little books, we would have to pull the pages out. And to replace them to update them. We covered all of New England and most of the East Coast with the exception of New Jersey and Massachusetts along scope
 
Michael Hingson ** 16:36
guard. So this was like 1987 88. Yes, exactly.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 16:40
8788 89. And, and then one of the next major pivotal things in my life happens. Having been raised in a very fundamentalist religion, I had never been involved in any kind of a sexual relationship. And I got raped. And what was interesting about it, other than the fact that it was pretty bad and it was somebody I knew, I got angry. And that’s, that pivoted me into advocacy. And I became a speaker. I spoke on college campuses, I spoke at my high school. I was like, oh, no, no, no, this is never going to happen to another woman. Right? Yeah. This is just not okay. And, and then I had this whole world of advocacy opened up for me. And it’s funny, I’ll never forget, I ended up changing my major. Because my political science class and my sophomore year of college, the professor has put a list of all of these different characteristics. He said, Well, what describes a typical politician and he was what in New Jersey, we now call commissioners, but back then we called them freeholders freeholders held land. And we put all these characteristics on a board of what a typical politician is. And he said, Georgia class, he said, Okay, everybody, if you aren’t, at least, almost all of them, if not all of these, you never, ever, ever have a chance of holding any kind of high office or elected office in government. And I looked at him in my stereotypical, defiant way, when somebody says I can’t do something, and said, Oh, really. And I changed my major to political science that week. And I would later tell him after I graduated from political science honors from what is now Rowan University, with concentrations in pre law and Women’s Studies. I would eventually tell him go back and tell him that he was the reason why I changed my major. And he was just so blown away. He’s like, Oh, wow, I’m so odd. Really told him why. And guess what, like many politicians, he ended up having an affair with a staffer and losing his his seat and his wife in the process. So I guess he was so much more like, far too many prostitutions back then, than what was listed on the board.
 
Michael Hingson ** 19:31
Do as I say, not as I do.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 19:35
When I go ahead, no, go ahead. I was gonna say when I finished college, though, my first job right out of college. As I had left Prudential to go back full time to finish, which was good because by the time I got done Prudential no longer existed. They had moved their job offices to Jacksonville and have the office that I would have worked at had I stayed there like so many people said I should. Of course they He told me he really shouldn’t leave this great job. And I said, Okay, really well watch me. And so again, I answered an ad in the newspaper. And I ended up going to work for the city of Bridgeton, in my field, actually working for the city in a new role for called the Community Development Block Grant sub recipient monitor. And my job was to create the infrastructure for monitoring funds from a community development block grants that were distributed to organizations in the community as a whole host of other things. And that was the beginning in 1992, of my 31 year career, other than one, brief six year return to insurance after having my son, my otherwise 31 year career in community and economic development.
 
Michael Hingson ** 20:59
So you got married along the way?
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 21:02
I did, but not yet. I stayed for a while. Yeah. Which is a really great question. I, I just wasn’t ready. Yeah, I, I was in this I was in this weird world of, I was too white for most black boys. I was too dark for most white boys. I was not Latina. But that was what I was most often mistaken for, because of my skin tone and where I grew up. And, and I was often just a novelty, somebody wanted to be able to say that they had tried being with a black girl. And in 2012, when I was 23 years old, that culminated actually, in a second, much more serious rape scenario with a guy that I had been seeing. Who knew about the first one, we’d had conversations about the fact that his sister had been through something similar. And then myself and a friend went to a party at his house, and they, I didn’t even drink, because I didn’t want to be in that situation. And yet, I felt like I was drunk. And it didn’t. We didn’t talk about things like being date rape drugs, and things like that. But yeah, it was, it was bad. And I remember bits and pieces, and they were just kind of joking that they all wanted to know what it was like to be with a black girl. And, um, so I was very protective of myself in many ways for many years. And when I met my husband, I was in a, I was long distance seeing someone he was seeing somebody else, we could care less. And then we would be reintroduced a couple years later. And I was at a point where I was like, I just not I can’t get involved with. I’ve had all these bad experiences with white guys and black guys. I just know, I was seeing a guy from Puerto Rico at the time. And as my husband likes to say, he just had to convince me that he was the only thing missing from my life. So he did what every other guy who wants to be with somebody does, he became a really good friend. And then we would end up finally getting married three years after our first date, which was a disaster, by the way, because our first date was literally the day of the very first Million Man March. Oh, and I said to him, What were you thinking we had ended up getting into a political conversation and realized we were about as diametrically opposed as one could be. And that’s what he thought about. What was he thinking when he asked out a young black urban professional, he said he didn’t know because he didn’t realize I was black. He thought I was lucky not then. And then one of the jokes of that evening that still gets repeated to this day, I said, oh, and I suppose you haven’t marched? And I suppose you’ve marched in a militia too. And he says, well, not lately. Now he was he had been on the north on a Civil War reenactment militia militia, but my husband would really appreciate your sense of humor. So no, in spite of that disastrous first date, next month, we will have been married for 25 years and together for 28. Any he was so everything I was not looking for at the time, which is probably exactly why it worked because I after all of those other experiences I had decided to find out. And we did, we got married. And, in fact, I was executive director of a nonprofit housing organization at the time, and it was selling, it’s celebrating its 25th anniversary. So we postponed our talk about understanding guy, he’s always supported me and said, You go be you. We actually postponed our honeymoon, so that we could get the anniversary banquet and celebration out of the way, and then go on our honeymoon without having that hanging over our heads. So he knew what kind of person he was getting together with. And he was he was fine with that. And so yeah, and we would go on, and I would have, we would have one son. And that was another pivot. This year, I was, at this point, I’m now running an organization that the nonprofit that I was with helped start, I’m used to like going around the country, and conducting training classes in housing counseling, and homeownership education for housing counselor is for the federal government on going all these great places. And then along comes this son, who God purposefully gave me to prove I have absolutely no control over anything. I remember Oh, my gosh, it was it was something else. And remember, and of course, you know, being a slightly older mom, at this point, I’m 33. Having a geriatric pregnancy just didn’t sound right. At all, I’m like, Oh, my God, I’ve I’ve tested I’m sitting there in tears one day, like, how is it that I could testify and in front of the state legislature and congressional hearings that I can’t get this kid to go to sleep? What is wrong?
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 27:10
got through it. I went back to the insurance industry. took a pause. 911 happened. I remember you. I remember seeing interviews with you on Larry King. And you know, one of the reasons why we chose our son’s name, Colin, which is, the original Greek word for courage was after that happened, because we had, as you probably I know, you can relate based on having heard your story. I worked in Trenton and so there were people, a lot of people would commute by train. So someone I grew up with was lost. Very, very close friend of ours, his cousin was lost. But then there were other people that were actually supposed to be there that I was friends with, for various reasons that, like interviews were cancelled. A friend of mine who worked in Jersey City was supposed to cross over to work for Wall Street Journal, he was supposed to be there that morning, it got postponed to that afternoon. So many people that had so many close brushes. And so Colin seemed like a really good name. And, but it also drastically affected our funding as a nonprofit, because all the organizations where we were basically redirected already committed funds to World Trade Center efforts. And which is why to this day, I’m still firmly believe in cash accounting, and not the cruel accounting. And I went back into the insurance industry for six years. And it was fun. And I was underwriting manager for a company here in New Jersey. And and then, we unmerged with our parent company merged with another company and a whole bunch of changes started happening. And I ended up going through my next major pivot. I decided to leave a role where I was having a lot of difficulty with someone who was actively sabotaging my work. And so I decided to take a lateral move left a team of 19, several of whom were in extreme tears to help go create another department. And that behavior continued constant, what we would now call bullying but there was no such thing as bullying in the workplace. Right? And that would culminate in him. physically assaulting me on the job in a conference room full of leaders in front of witnesses. And he herniated all the discs in my neck. And what was really interesting about that is all of the other things that I had been through. They were emotional, and it was easy to recover. But the physical injury that I went in for a while I, my neck got everything swelled up so much I couldn’t walk, I couldn’t feel my feet. I couldn’t function it was was incredibly painful. All of my C spine discs, were either damaged or bulged. And you would think, with so many people having witnessed it, it would be a no brainer, he would get fired. That’s not what happened. Yeah, I was gonna ask. Yeah. That’s not what happened at all. I would later find out through notes that he was giving a an a one time final warning, but this person had had a history of inappropriate behavior. And everybody would just chalk it up as to being that person. And so he had been there 20 years I had been there, three, and they decided that I was the one that needed to go. And they did what we used to call an insurance terms and other corporate terms called circle the wagons, protect their jobs. And that got ugly, very, very ugly. And Lisa Halloran was my hero. She was my, she taking the job was supposed to be a director was downgraded to a manager, which then downgraded me from management to consultant. And so she had only been there six months when this happened, she had transferred from another office. And in full integrity, she stood by me. Even when she personally was threatened, she stood by me. One point, she was told by the Vice President, I’m trying to save our jobs, you need to get in line. And she said, I would rather lose my job and be able to sleep at night, and do what you’re asking me to do. And fortunately, for me, even though that left knee permanently partially disabled, I was able to find specialists, they did pay for one disc to be replaced. I did, New Jersey has binding arbitration, and the company pays for it. So there’s not really much of an incentive for a binding arbitrator to actually rule in the favor of an employee. And they had argued in court that assaults were not not considered eligible for arbitration, but then tried to argue, in arbitration, that assaults belonged in court and the judge saw right through it and sent them all and joined everybody together, inviting arbitration and what was interesting is they lost. Wow, they lost and what what the ruling basically was was that the assault aside the way I was treated, including having ignored blatantly and openly admitted to ignoring their own grievance procedures process, that they had made a bad situation worse. And the funny thing is, then they then filed an appeal. At which point the arbitrator scathingly said, what part of binding arbitration Didn’t you understand when you asked for binding arbitration? And they would eventually shut down all New Jersey operations. I, there’s lots of rumors, I won’t speculate. But yeah, almost everybody lost their jobs, all the way up to the top, including the New Jersey president. And I went back into government nonprofit work, and that’s where I’ve been ever since.
 
Michael Hingson ** 34:26
You know, it’s the insurance industry is a fascinating place. The reason I said early on that you joined in the insurance world in 1987 1988. Something like seven years before around 1980, maybe 1979. Probably 1980. Somebody in the National Federation of the Blind, which is the largest consumer organization of blind people, was at a meeting of insurance people Sitting next to a person from Prudential and said to this person, I think it also had to do with the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, but anyway said, you know, insurance companies won’t provide life insurance for people who are blind. And this guy said, Yeah. And the person who I knew said, Well, why don’t you do everything that you do based on evidence to actuarial statistics and evidentiary data? And you have mathematical models for everything? And the guy said, Well, absolutely. That’s how we make all of our decisions. And my friends said, Well, can we see the evidence that says that blind people are a higher risk? And the guy said, Sure, no problem. Six months went by, without any indication that there was anything. And finally my friend said, so where’s the evidence? And the guy from Prudential said, Well, we were working on it. We haven’t found it yet, but it’s there. And my friend said, you don’t have any do you? You have been discriminating against blind people and other persons with disabilities is it eventually expanded. But you’ve been doing that simply based on prejudice, and a mistaken belief that we’re a higher risk without any evidence to show for it. And on the other end, we as blind people know, we’re not a higher risk. Well, what that eventually led to was a campaign in every State of the Union at the time, I was living in Massachusetts. So I ran the effort for the state of Massachusetts for the National Federation of blind in Massachusetts. But to get every state to pass a law that said, you can’t discriminate against blind or other persons with physical disabilities, unless you can provide actuarial statistics or or evidentiary data. And to this day, of course, no one’s been able to because it doesn’t exist. Yeah. It wasn’t scientific at all. It was prejudice. Yep.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 37:00
Absolutely. Absolutely. And my husband had worked in that industry for a while. And yeah, and it both in the life insurance, but also in health and also in property and casualty. To be honest, at one point from in 95, and 96, I had gone back to insurance company, because I was recruited from a nonprofit specifically to help with a pilot program where they were reentering the urban environment to because they had stopped insuring in most cities, urban environments, because of flat roofs, and the fire risk that they support that they had. And my boss, an amazing person, his name was, Andre Howell had conceived of this idea that if we worked with people to help mitigate risk, we think that they’ll actually perform well. And he was right. And we worked in a very specific target targeted neighborhood of Philadelphia, and offered like free inspections, and all kinds of things. And, and part of my job was to track the performance of that. Now, this was for all state at the time, and I will name them because at that time, they had lost more money in Hurricane Andrew than they had made in the history of the company. Yeah. And this is a program that they would eventually roll out across all the states. And I had been serving on the National Insurance Task Force which dealt with access, availability, and affordability, affordability of insurance and regional or in a metropolitan as well as rural areas, because there’s a big issue with rural areas too. But interestingly, a division of theirs decided not long after I got there that they were going to start mass canceling and a non renewing policies in the state of New Jersey. And the actuarial logic behind it was they looked at all of the people who had had not an accident, apparently you get an accident every five years, they looked at all the people who had not had an accident within a five year period determined that they were due and decided that they were going to use a loophole in a tooth what was called the two for one law. For every two g non renewed you could take one new customer and they just started, guess what group hasn’t had a car accident within a five year timeframe. Disabled people, seniors and those who only use vehicles for pleasure use. So here I was in the government relations divisions of a company whose state subsidiary was mass, non renewing disabled and non working individuals. We had agents that were losing clients like 90 a week, and of course, those individuals were taking other business with them, I’ve never. And this is on the heels of them having gotten in trouble because somebody had made a very inappropriate comment about why they wouldn’t cover repairs to a property for a same sex couple. So it was a rough period for them that they would eventually overcome. But really just, that was some of the eye opening for me in terms of why my advocacy needed to be so much broader than just around women. So
 
Michael Hingson ** 40:28
is that what sort of really led you into dealing with the whole issue of inclusion and equity and so on?
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 40:36
Yes, because I had now at this point, I had worked. in Bridgeton, I had worked in Cherry Hill Township, I had worked in Camden, I had worked in Philadelphia, looking at all of this, I’m seeing all this happening, I’m looking at people use numbers in ways that they should never have to use them because they had their own proprietary insurance score. And I had to know that model. So I had to know what went into it, so I could teach it. And I realized that the problem was so much bigger than even the different things that I had in my life that were intersectional in terms of being a female being a woman of color, you know, I wasn’t even dealing with the disability yet at that point. And, but just other things, and, and hearing the way people would talk about people, as groups and status as individual human beings.
 
Michael Hingson ** 41:34
You know, it’s, oh, go ahead.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 41:36
No, go ahead.
 
Michael Hingson ** 41:37
It’s amazing, just how, as I said, Before, people do as I say, not as I do, how people behave, you know, and most people don’t think about their own disabilities, all of you who have eyesight, and I’ve said it several times on this podcast, have a disability as well, your light dependent, just wait till the power goes out in the building, and you got to go off and try to scrounge for a flashlight or a smartphone. The thing is that, because so many people think that eyesight is really the only game in town, our society collectively, has worked really hard to make light on demand, a fact of life everywhere. And so we’ve spent basically 145 years developing this technology to make light on demand available, pretty much in a ubiquitous sort of way. So most of the time, you have light on demand until you don’t like when I was in a hotel in March. And I’ve seen it other times since then, before being a building and settling, the power goes out and people start to scream and they don’t know what to do. And the fear comes in, and I’m sitting there going so what’s the problem? The the issue is, you guys are light dependent. And the reality is disability should not mean a lack of ability, because it’s not. Disability is a characteristic that every single person on the planet has. And what we need to truly understand and do is to recognize that the characteristic manifests itself in different ways for different people. It doesn’t mean it’s not there. So let light cover up your disability, but you still have it. And you can say all day long, you don’t. But you do. But but we’re too arrogant sometimes to really address that and deal with it. And it’s so unfortunate, when that happens so much in our world today. But but the fact is, that’s that’s the way it is. And so I talk about it, probably more than some people would like on the podcast, because I want the message to be heard by everyone. That disability does not mean lack of ability, and everyone has that characteristic in one way or another. For my part.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 43:51
Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, no, I was gonna say AB so lute Li and I loved hearing you talk about it, on the podcast that I listened to in the speeches that I listened to. Because disability disabled individuals are among some of the most discriminated individuals in this country. And that’s planet. And, you know, when you were talking about what happened to you as a child in terms of what the doctors told your parents, you know, a lot of people don’t realize that in this country in this country, till as recently as 1979. They were sterilizing women to keep certain women from being able to reproduce, because it will pollute the gene pool with disabled disability character, and
 
Michael Hingson ** 44:37
there were courts who backed that up. Yes. And supported eugenics like that. Yes, exactly.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 44:43
And so, you know, I mean, depending on it had I didn’t born in a different state, God knows what would have happened. Yeah. But you know, in California was one of the biggest ones. And, you know, a lot of people don’t know that because we don’t talk About those parts of our history, but whether I was paying attention, I’m really good at listening. And I realized that it’s naturally human beings tend to want to group things. They all want to be seen as individuals, but they want to put everybody else in groups. And you could say, you know, people talk about, you know, different immigrants being stupid. I’m sorry, How many languages do you speak? Because they may be struggling in English. But most, most people I know, who have immigrated here know at least one if not five, or six. My Spanish is terrible got Mexico, to for my honeymoon. I mean, people who have all these diverse people, we are all wonderfully and perfectly made, depending on whether or not you believe in God, we’ve written to flee imperfectly made in God’s image. Yeah. And if the Bible says God makes no mistakes, who are we to think that any one else is any less? More superior, less, less superior? Or that we’re more superior than anyone else?
 
Michael Hingson ** 46:19
Well, except that in Oh God, George Burns said that he made a mistake, because he made avocado pits too large. Yeah. Oh, my God to sneak that one in.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 46:34
Which is funny, though, only. But
 
Michael Hingson ** 46:37
I hear exactly what you’re saying. The fact of the matter is, and kids especially I was talking with someone earlier today. And we were we were doing another interview, and we were talking about children and growing up and how kids are, are fun loving, they are full of adventure. And they don’t have all of these agendas. And it’s so unfortunate that we teach this in so many ways to children, and they grow up with these these horrible attitudes to a large degree, and there’s no need for it. Children aren’t evil. But we make them that way.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 47:17
Well, we could say that about a lot of things, right? I mean, a thing is a thing. It’s, it’s how we use it. Now, children are born a blank slate, it’s what we write on it. Right. And the younger, we can undo that the better. And which is a huge part of you know, you know, like I said, my third pivot was was my most recent pivot after going to grad school. Because I was determined, I was going to get that master’s degree before I turned 50. And then getting long COVID. I was like, Okay, you’re still here. What are you going to do with this? And I said, well, since grad school, I’ve been talking about it, because here I am this black female who’s been, you know, the first list the first you know, first black female here at first black female there because I was lighter skin, I was palpable, which gets into a whole other issue. And I didn’t say quote, unquote, sound black or growing up, the black kids would say your family talks white. Half of my family is white, all my cousins are all interracial. That was my way my dad’s family was three possible shade. So it was just normal to me. But then in the post Obama era, it was a little bit more normalized. For a while, oh, if I had $1 for every time somebody said, Oh, she speaks so well. I’d be very, very rich. Well,
 
Michael Hingson ** 48:45
if I had $1, for every time somebody said, you’re amazing. And of course, what they’re really saying is, especially for a blind person, you know.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 48:53
And so after getting COVID, and realizing I was still here, and seeing the spotlight shine on all things that were broken with our health care system, and then some, for anybody who was a person of color, who had an existing disability. Some of the things that I experienced. I actually had to I was like, Mom, you deal with the hospital, you’re a nursing professor, you’re Caucasian. They’re not listening to me. You just deal with it, because they’re not listening to me. Because there’s so many of us continue to have to deal with ongoing symptoms before anybody would acknowledge that that was a real thing. The and so many people who are in the disability community, we’re right in there with us. We’re all in there together finding each other and social media and Facebook groups, because no one would listen to us. Mm. That’s when I was like, Okay, it’s, you’re still here, you’re here for a reason, it’s time to get vocal about everything that’s broken in this country about how we treat each other in general. And as the person of color in many organizations back when it was still called affirmative action. And having been part of integrating teams and corporate and government agencies, and seeing the narrative shift. Over the years, I was already getting concerned. And then when everybody was exposed to what so many of us knew, in the death of George Floyd and others, while everybody else said, Okay, stand up, this is a time for celebration, people are finally going to live, learn, change is going to happen, companies are issuing pledges everywhere, we’re finally going to get the change that’s been coming. And me, I’m on a webinar, still in very deep throes of long COVID with massive cognitive issues. And I said, here’s my concern. And I meant to say backlash. I said, the black lashes coming. And that stuck. I see, I see, give it time. People know, when things aren’t authentic. People know, when change is being shoved down their throat, people don’t like being told that they’re responsible for things that they didn’t have happen. And saying, Now, you know, how it feels to be me is not the right response for that. And people started reading books about anti racism and all these things I said, I’m telling you, and then I repeat it, I said, I’m gonna keep using the word the black lashes coming since 2021, on record in a webinar. And now we have what we’re seeing in Florida, and other states, and book burnings, and Supreme Court decisions. And all of these things as the pendulum swings back from one side to the other. And companies are eliminating diversity, equity inclusion programs, and people are leaving this fairly new kind of practice, for lack of better words. I mean, they’ve been, it’s been slowly been evolving from diversity, diversity, inclusion, diversity, equity. And, and I’ve been saying for eight years, we’re doing it all wrong. doing it all wrong. At no point, in over 20 years, if I ever brought a new hire into a situation without first addressing what needed to be addressed in house to create the environment that would make it possible for them to succeed, we should be doing it differently. And then, of course, after my assault, I was like, we have a serious civility issue. Just in terms of me, you can only legislate how people treat each other so much. But we have serious civility issues going on in workplaces that aren’t being addressed, for all of the wrong reasons, across different groups. And it’s time that we get our houses in order in terms of civility, then focus on creating the inclusive environment that it should be, then look at the equity issues within that environment, then you bring in the diversity hires that you want to bring in to help your company capitalize on the 30% return on investment that most companies that are diverse actually experience when they are run properly. In a truly, you know, culture add way, and then everybody can succeed. Otherwise, they’re just hiring somebody that person comes in, they can’t function, they quit. Everybody throws up their hands and says, Oh, well, we tried it didn’t work, move on.
 
Michael Hingson ** 53:46
Tell me about purpose, build solutions and evolutions, if you would.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 53:49
Sure. It’s a purpose built solutions and evolutions while I was in grad school, and I’ve been doing coaching internally and externally, since 1997. And I was asked, in grad schools, what as part of one of my classes to come up with a two or three word way to describe what I am from a professional standpoint. And I described myself as a Resource Navigator. And because so many of my roles involved, either giving the answers or putting people into the direction where they could find the answers. And so I had been doing everything that you’re not supposed to do as a business as a side hustle. And Maryam with long COVID I go ahead, I finally get my international coaching Federation certification that I’ve been putting off for 12 years. And my coach says, When you get to start a business, you’ve helped like 1000s of others when you can actually do it yourself. And I figured, okay, so put was filled solutions and evolutions was originally going to be purpose filled solutions and evolutions navigators. But I’ve refiled the service mark to drop the the navigators, even though I still use it. Solutions navigator was already taken. So I was like, well, everything I do is coaching around the purpose. Once your why what is your core purpose? I know mine, mine is helping others figure out theirs, and then achieve it. And after about three weeks of analysis, paralysis, and finally settled on purpose built solutions, and evolutions, a company that would offer the coaching that I had been doing, but also capitalize on my years of experience in various leadership roles, from supervisor up to Executive Director, as well as my Masters of Science and executive leadership and all that I had learned in grad school with a big focus on fixing what I felt was broken with what I call civility, inclusion, equity and diversity. And my company’s turned to in June. And I have a team of consultants that support me, and a young woman that I hired from a program that I served as a leadership coach in breathe and shout out to Braven, which is a fellowship program for college students. I brought her in as an intern, and then hired her as my team. And she was a young woman who came here at the age of three, as part of her parents trying to escape Mexico. And she’s DACA. And she’s going through the citizenship process. And she couldn’t find a job in the DEI space. And so we after a number of things, I asked her apologize for the parking. After a number of meetings, I asked her, Okay, we’ve had all these conversations about what I feel is wrong with the tape all of the information that I gave you, and then I want you to go and I want you to research and I want you to come back and tell me how you would redo my inclusion, equity and diversity program. And she came back. And she said, I think we need to start with mental health and physical disabilities. So this young woman who herself was an immigrant, who had was given carte blanche to look at everything that we should be looking at as part of a program that focuses on inclusion, equity and diversity, had every reason to throughout her life to come back with any number of options. And that’s what she came back with. And I said, Okay, would you like a job as consultant? And how would you like to help me take take the lead and developing this program, and that’s how paving the way to civility, inclusion, equity and diversity was born. Wow.
 
Michael Hingson ** 58:09
Well, that is pretty cool. And, and you’re even making enough to pay her and everything, huh?
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 58:14
I am. That’s a blessing. Unfortunately, it works out she’s she’s part time consultant. She just had her and her husband just had their second baby. And she’s on maternity leave right now. But we did our first official full public offering of the program in June, it was very well received, people were blown away. They learned things, of course, that they were never taught and about everything from how the messages are even being manipulated to you know, you know why it’s so important to see every person as an individual being and someone who I love Louis Brandeis Griggs was the one who I stole the spelling of it from because I would always say people want to be human beings. And he would always capitalize the B E. In being and so paving the way to civility, inclusion, equity and diversity, a new way of be in, in workplace and in life is our our most comprehensive flagship training program, who
 
Michael Hingson ** 59:24
have been some of the people who had the most influence on you as you’re going through life.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 59:31
My mom obviously has been one. I mentioned a couple of Lisa Halloran who stood by me when she had everything to risk. I have to ride or die. Best Friend’s one. Unfortunately. Kathy Jagger passed actually. It’ll be here next week. She was also a rape survivor and we met when I was 19. She was a little bit older too. She was 32. And we bonded and she was my best friend and mentor in so many different ways. She was the reason I went to work at Prudential. We went through all kinds of things together. And you know, she will she I referred to her as one of the greatest loves of my life. And the other one, her name is Maria Callahan, Cassidy, who she relocated to an amazing new position at Richmond University only weeks before Kathy passed. So I lost I fortunately didn’t lose Maria, it’s, it’s hard because she’s not here. But these are both people that I’ve known since my teens and have definitely shaped who I am. My son, actually, I’ve learned so much from him. My son is neurodiverse. He likes to say he’s not on the spectrum. He broke the spectrum. Well, that’s can and and, and he is hysterical and funny and incredibly talented and incredibly brilliant. And helping navigate the public schools where we live. And watching him continue to still get back up even when he was pushed down. Because in our school district, if you are not in the box, you’re basically out of luck. So we had to get an attorney for our son when he was only in third grade, to fight for his rights, and the he knows himself. And really, his biggest challenge is he has something called dysgraphia. He can recite things verbatim, but you could give him that same thing to copy, and he struggles to copy it. And that was a very difficult educational experience for him. But now he’s a mechanic, he’s training to be a mechanic, he wants to own his own mechanic shop, he has a lovely girlfriend, Collins girlfriend is Ariel, they’ve been together since they were 14 and 16. And now they are 19 and 21. Going on 20 and 22. And she is the daughter I would have chosen. I call her the daughter I got to choose. And I’ve learned so much because of her a lot of her upbringing is very similar to mine, they say we’ve we’re very careful to make sure it doesn’t get weird. But they say you end up with somebody very similar to your parent. Ariel and I have definitely have a lot in common and and then I would be remiss if I didn’t say my husband because even though we have a definitely have our different political beliefs. He has really just unleashed me. He, one thing he stands very firm on is equal pay for women after watching some of the experiences that I go through and he is constantly up, go do it. You got to do this, you got to speak up up, you’ve been offered a show. I should mention Joe Cole, Antonio, my coach, she is the one who did push me off the cliff to get my show by saying I’m booking you on a local talk show. So that you have two weeks, you have a couple of weeks to get ready to go announced your business is finally open. That’s the other reason why purpose filled solutions and evolutions came in. But these are some really all unique but very interesting teachers in my life. So
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:03:36
tell me really quickly if you would about your talk show.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:03:39
My talk show was an offshoot of Joe pushing me off the cliff, ironically, and we joke because Joe is my husband. But Joe is my coach and also probably one of my closest friends at this point. To Joe to Joe’s once God wants J O. And Jo booked me on this talk show called Morning Coffee and gave me a couple of weeks. She said I know you can incorporate a business within 72 hours. I’ve seen you do it. You’re going to do it. And so sure enough, on July 2 of 2021, I went in there. My business was two weeks old. And I announced and introduced myself and my one intern to the world. Somebody else who my son’s girlfriend and told them about what I was looking to do and how I was going to change the world and the narrative and be a coach and offer services that I couldn’t offer in my day job. And they came back to me and said the response to your episode was so amazing. Do you want to do a show? I was like, I was like I’ve always been the person on answering the questions or writing for government officials who are answering the questions. I’ve never been on that side of the mic. They said, Well, what do you think I said, Let me think about it. And I was originally going to call my blog, what the why? Kind of like instead of WTF, WT w. And I said, I have an idea. If you give me full control over who my guests are, would you be interested in doing a show called What the Why, and it would be conversations with diverse leaders from all walks of life, all races, genders, disabilities, ages, and I would interview them about what their purpose in life was and how they figured it out. And the station manager said, huh, yeah, let’s do it. And so right now I’m on a brief hiatus because the station is in the middle of a move, but I’m in my second season. Of what the why with barber and and I have, I’m hoping to have you on in like, third season because you are so friggin awesome. And not because you’re blind. You’re just freaking awesome. Period. You just amazing. I’m completely and utterly amazing. But I have interviewed the smallest of businesses. My oldest guests had been in their 80s. My youngest recently was eight. He is a he’s a math genius who video of him doing complex math at the age of three went viral. He was invited to join MENSA fours. Mom submitted it and he was accepted at age five. He and She both have long COVID Cynthia, shout out to Cynthia ad Nagin her brilliant son, Aiden. They’re both brilliant. And she founded a health equity agency. And he is officially the paediatric spokesperson. He does not know he does not know his IQ. So cute. He had literally just turned eight a couple of weeks before I interviewed him in August. And one second, he’s telling me what I need to understand about quantum singularities. And then the next second is holding up pieces of clay saying look at the ribbon I made. And he’s what’s funny about the interview we did is all three of us were having a level of a COVID flare up. So all three of us were having cognitive challenges. So
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:07:24
it was like a fun show.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:07:25
It was fun. But you know, when you’re with an eight year old, you roll with it. Yep. And we just kind of laugh with but he’s, he’s amazing. He is training to be a chess champion, because COVID has affected his ability to do outdoor sports. And he’s homeschooled with a pod of other little young geniuses like Kim. And but I got to talk with the Sunni meet. One of the people I got to interview was the biker from the village people, ah, and the first woman to be the president of the National Association of government guaranteed lenders and, you know, some local elected officials. But then like, I found out a whole side to my hairdresser. And, and his story as a small business owner who’s getting ready to hand it off to his daughter, now that he’s in his 60s and I know what his journey was like and how his grandparents stood behind him as a black straight male wanting to do hair.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:08:28
There you go. So you have lots of lots of people. I have one more question for you. This is a very crucial question. How tall are you?
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:08:38
five foot six.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:08:40
And how tall is your husband?
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:08:42
five foot eight.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:08:44
Ha we did not follow in our parents footsteps. Okay, I just wanted to check that out.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:08:49
But here’s the flip side to that though. Yeah, they were both named Joe. My dad was a Joseph. My husband is a Joseph.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:08:57
There you go. And what’s your son’s name?
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:09:00
Colin
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:09:01
Cartwright. You said that Yeah. Well Colin Joseph. Okay. So there’s a Joseph in
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:09:05
all of them in my dad was was rather dark for a mixed race man. All three of them are avid outdoorsman. In my husband’s not into the same kind of football basketball. My dad was but all three of them were hunters. Okay. married to former vegetarian. Yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:09:24
there you are. If people want to reach out to you maybe learn about your coaching and and get in touch. How do they do that?
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:09:31
They can find me on LinkedIn. BGardenhiremills. And you spell it sure it’s B G A R D E N H I R E. Mills. I’m on all forms of social media. And honestly, if they can get Barbara Anne garden Hire Mills if you Google that and What the Why it pops up the show airs on RVN R V N television.com as well as roku. And then I believe I forwarded you some some other links to the website. I’m not going to spell out our whole ridiculously long website because I’m actually I actually bought the URLs to shorten it. So
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:10:26
how do I find it on Roku?
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:10:28
I believe rvn because I don’t have Roku that’s why it’s there. Yeah. But if you go on Roku you should be able to find the channel for RV and television is supposed to be on the Roku channels are and I’ll check out under the Roku channels otherwise, RV and television or there’s access to it directly from my website, which is my entire name spelled out a moment of weakness. It when I was having COVID Happy hypoxia which is really not happy. But I thought somebody said to me, Oh, let it you just name your website, your company and I thought, Oh, sure. Yeah, well, yeah, well, as if my name isn’t long enough purpose built solutions and evolutions because you can’t have an ampersand and a website.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:11:08
No, that’s okay. I’m gonna go hunted down on Roku though. That’ll be kind of fun. Awesome. Well, I want to thank you for being here. And I want to thank you for listening. I love to hear your thoughts about today. This has been a lot of fun and firebrands, life and lessons are definitely worth paying attention to and I really value the time that we got to spend. I’d love to hear your thoughts, please feel free to email me Michaelhi m i c h a e l h i at accessibe A C C E S S I B E.com. Or go to www dot Michael Hingson H i n g s o n.com/podcast. To listen to more podcasts. But you can also find us wherever Podcasts can be found. And wherever you listen, please give us a five star rating. We appreciate it. We appreciate your insights and your comments and value them greatly. Now, of course, both Barbara Anne for you and for you listening. If you know of anyone who want to be a guest on our podcast, please let us know. We’re always looking for more people to come on our podcast. I’m sure that Barbara Anne could talk to you about talk shows and in finding guests. So whatever. We’d love to hear from you and we really value your time and that you took the time to be with us today. And Barbara Anne one last time. Thank you very much for being here with us.
 
Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:12:33
That an honor thank you so much for inviting me on.
 
**Michael Hingson ** 1:12:40
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.