Episode 201 – Unstoppable Joyful Leadership and Development Expert with Katya Davydova

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Make no mistake Katya Davydova has her own times of not being joyful and dealing with challenges. However, as you will hear on this episode, Katya works to create and spread joy. How? Well, it starts with a smile. I am going to leave it to her to tell you more.
Katya was born in Uzbekistan and emigrated to America at the age of five. She says she always has been a curious person and became quite fascinated with how people interacted with each other. After obtaining a MS degree with highest honors in organizational development and knowledge management from George Mason University she began to work in earnest to help improve company organizational structures. She relocated to the Los Angeles area just before the advent of Covid.
She not only has her “day job” concerning organizational development, but she also is a coach who is ready to consult with high achieving clients to teach them how to have better strategic thinking and how to create better micro-habits.
Katya offers many positive and thought provoking life lessons we all can find useful. Along the way in our episode she also turns the tables and asks me questions related to our discussions. This episode is quite fun. I hope you enjoy it.

About the Guest:

Katya Davydova’s mission is to create a more joyful world.

She is an organizational and leadership development expert, igniting workplaces like Google, Netflix, and Dropbox, where humans can flourish. As an expert facilitator, she teaches managers, executives, and individual contributors essential skills like strategic thinking, communication, and feedback.

Katya is also a coach for high achievers, empowering them to bridge the gap between best practices and actual follow-through by sustainable, micro-habits. Her first book, Joy in Plain Sight, explores celebrating wonder in the ordinary against the backdrop of our always-on, always-busy world.

A believer in big ideas that can make ours a kinder world, Katya has the honor (and sheer fun!) of speaking to audiences about organizational development, human flourishing, and habit-building (especially on joy!). She’s presented at engagements like The Massachusetts Conference for Women, Chief Learning Officer Exchange, ODinLA, and is a TEDx speaker.

Finally, she loves learning. Katya received her BA in cognitive science and psychology from the University of Virginia (Echols Scholar, Phi Beta Kappa), and her MS with highest honors in organizational development and knowledge management from George Mason University. Her prior expertise is in people operations, learning and development, higher education, and consulting. When she’s not working, you can find her exploring both city streets and especially wild trails, adding to her collection of plants, and learning about people in their everyday moments.

Ways to connect with Katya:

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Other Links/work:

About the Host:
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.

Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.


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Transcription Notes

**Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit
to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.

**Michael Hingson ** 01:21
Well, hi, and guess what? Yes, you’re right. It is time for another episode of unstoppable mindset. We’re inclusion diversity in the unexpected wheat, whatever that may be in whatever we may encounter. Today we get to chat with Katya Davydova. And I love something that Katya Katya has on her bio, which is that she wants to create a more joyful world. And it doesn’t get better than that I like joyful worlds. And all that goes with it. I think we spend too much time grousing and complaining about all the things we don’t have control over anyway. So for me, it’s always don’t worry about what you can’t control focus on the things you can and the rest will take care of themselves, which I think is always true. However, we’ll see what Katya has to say about that. Anyway, welcome to unstoppable mindset.

**Katya Davydova ** 02:08
Thank you so much, Michael. It is truly a joy, a delight and a pleasure. All three of the trifecta to be here. Thanks so much for having me.

**Michael Hingson ** 02:14
Well, I really appreciate you agreeing to do this. And coming on. Why don’t we start with talking about kind of the early Catia growing up and all that stuff?

**Katya Davydova ** 02:23
Sure. Sure. Shall we begin from 13 point 8 billion years ago, the Big Bang?

**Michael Hingson ** 02:28
We can do that? A very long time. How sure are you it was only 13 point 8 billion years. And

**Katya Davydova ** 02:35
now you’re asking the real questions. And are there multiple universes? The Quantum? Right, let’s go there could be definitely good. I think just to keep it like you said what’s within our control? Control? Happy to start at the beginning.

**Michael Hingson ** 02:50
time ago.

**Katya Davydova ** 02:54
Exactly. So the words right out of my mouth, Michael. That’s exactly right. But I’ll give the overall executive summary. And it’s so funny to hear myself say the word executives, I work with executives that just did yesterday and bled over but anyway, was born in Uzbekistan, which was at the time some people have called it a third world country, I think the term now is developing or developed, developing rather country. And it was a time of darkness. And then I came to the States. Happy to happy to carry the conversation, Michael, where you would like for it to go? How do you

**Michael Hingson ** 03:30
go ahead. So tell us about you know, maybe what you remember a little bit about growing up in this Mecca, Stan? And then coming here and what it was like and all that. Sure. Sure. Yeah. So I framework is it were

**Katya Davydova ** 03:41
a framework, I you know, I love a good framework, honestly, what we’ll talk about frameworks and principles in a little bit. But as a kid, I was used to, I guess, I was gonna say I was used to like not having too much, because, you know, we grew up in a little bit of, I don’t call poverty necessarily, but not not having as much abundance as a, quote unquote, traditional American childhood might offer. But we my family, and I were lucky enough to emigrate to the States when I was a kid. And came here not knowing a lick of English except for please, and thank you. And where’s the bathroom?

**Michael Hingson ** 04:18
There are three essential, that’s important one, too. Yeah, of

**Katya Davydova ** 04:21
course, of course, he got to know where the important places are. And there’s a little bit of gratitude and asking for help. And so as a kid here in the States, I landed, McKinley landed in Virginia and just kind of started living. I remember, if you’re talking about pivotal moments, I remember walking into a grocery store, and being absolutely astounded by the selection and the array of things available for purchase. Right. And as Becca Stan, we had to stand in line for food, because that was the reality. And in America, you could buy like 16 Different kinds of apple at your whim. It was incredible.

**Michael Hingson ** 04:56
I was amazed when we moved to New Jersey and lived there for six years. yours went into the store the number of different kinds of loaves of bread, the different kinds of bread. Much different than here in California.

**Katya Davydova ** 05:09
Yes, yes. Would you say that? It’s more in New Jersey in California? Oh, lots more. Yeah. Really? Why do you think that is?

**Michael Hingson ** 05:16
I don’t know. I never could figure it out. But there was a lot more different kinds of bread. And they were all very tasty but different, a lot more different kinds of bread, I think. And maybe it’s the Italian influence. Who knows? Maybe

**Katya Davydova ** 05:27
Maybe New Jersey puts the new and new loaves of bread in New Jersey. Good be? Yes. So similar to that, right? Just the whole bushy tailed, bright eyed person looking at a grocery store store aisle. But as a kid, I just I love to play, you know, as any child would like to play, got good grades went on to do well in school, and was really driven by noticing how people interact and helping to facilitate those kinds of interactions, relationships. In fact, I’ve been a peer mediator since fifth grade. I think that really paved the way for being in the service of other people, right, wanting to help others thrive.

**Michael Hingson ** 06:09
So why do you think that you develop that interest?

**Katya Davydova ** 06:14
Yeah, it’s a good question. I grew up as an older kid. And I think I was an extroverted introvert or an introverted extrovert. But I was definitely very social with a healthy dose of shyness, right? Because I was like, Oh, I don’t want to make too much of a ruckus. And I remember as a kid, I would always interact really well with adults, like at a dinner party. If my parents were having friends over. At school, I would I remember in third grade, I was asked to facilitate a group of adults who were visiting from some Russian speaker Slavic speaking country, I was asked to like, facilitate their visit. I was like, okay, like I can get along with adults. This is easy. Sometimes getting along with fellow kids was sometimes a challenge don’t always, you know, I got bullied just like any, any other kid or most kids, but was able to really dive into exploring conversations. And I think the why is that and not to sound self aggrandizing. But I I am a deeply curious person, and I love understanding how the world works. Which Michael, I know that it is something that you and I share.

**Michael Hingson ** 07:20
We do. And it’s It’s always fascinating to learn more about how the world works and when to make new discoveries and just get more insights to isn’t definitely

**Katya Davydova ** 07:31
definitely for sure. That’s overall synopsis of little little young Katya.

**Michael Hingson ** 07:37
So you went through school, went through high school, cope with all that survived was all that in Virginia.

**Katya Davydova ** 07:42
That was all in Virginia. Yes. Right outside of DC.

**Michael Hingson ** 07:46
What did you do for college?

**Katya Davydova ** 07:48
I went to UVA, go, who is love my bajos? Yeah, and I studied cognitive science, psychology and Russian there. So I had a double major and a minor. And did a thesis, you know, is on a lot of like, a lot of clubs, a lot of committees, a lot of leadership organization. And just really, I really think I maximize my college experience. Now people always ask the coffee, what do you regret most about your college experience? Or what do you what do you wish you’d done more of? And honestly, I wish I partied more like, I probably did enough as it was, especially my first year of college. But I took school very seriously. And, you know, to dwell on it. But I wish I had spent a little bit more time partying. I don’t know, I don’t know if people say that. Typically. I

**Michael Hingson ** 08:33
don’t know that they do. But I I appreciate it and understand what the reality is that that college and the whole social life is part of what we should do. Do you think that you know, I’ve had some people be guests on unstoppable mindset who said that? They didn’t think that college really prepared them for life that it was way too theoretical? What do you think? Interesting concept? I mean,

**Katya Davydova ** 09:00
it is, Michael, before we dive into that, do you have any theories? Or did they share any theories on why it was too theoretical?

**Michael Hingson ** 09:09
They just felt that faculty and so on, we’re not really from the working environment that they they came from a college environment, they didn’t really have a lot of exposure to the rest of the world. Yeah, and I can see that in some kinds of colleges, maybe some of the more advanced theoretical universities, but community colleges, maybe to a little bit lesser degree, the state colleges probably had more people who did spend some time out in the world and maybe they would be different. That’s kind of my perception.

**Katya Davydova ** 09:43
Yeah, that’s that’s a great hypothesis. I can see how, you know, potentially on both sides of the spectrum, there’s that sentiment. I think that UVA actually prepared me really well for school. I will say that the location of it right in Charlottesville, Virginia was very warm. Not very, it was insular to a degree, it felt like a bubble because it was beautiful, blissful place where, of course, you know, bad things, of course happened. But I felt very in community when I was both undergrad there. And also when I came back to Charlottesville as an adult, and I mean, my high school prepared me really well for college though, like I was used to the, to the, to the hard work aspect. But I also did a lot of things besides classes, like I had a bunch of internships, I volunteered, had this amazing volunteer experience with it was for specifically for men with comorbid, schizophrenia and substance use disorders. And it was Psychosocial Rehabilitation. So imagine this, like 21 year old girl who’s just like, rash and really brimming with excitement, coming into the space where there was, there was a lot of pain, and there was a lot of struggles with, with substances with alcohol. And I was like, wow, we can really, we can really see these humans for the human aspect of it. Right, not, not the some of their past stories, necessarily. And it was just such a delightful and expansive time. I remember that as a very crucial part of my last year of college,

**Michael Hingson ** 11:15
you kind of wonder, why is it that some people go that way? Why do they over indulge in alcohol, much less drugs and so on? It’s, it’s a fascinating question, that I’ve, I’ve never experienced any of that. I’ve never been drunk, I have no desire to be drunk. Although I’d love to say that. I feel sorry for people who don’t drink because when they get up in the morning, that’s as good as they’re going to feel for the rest of the day. But I don’t listen to too much Dean Martin, what can I say? But, but seriously, I, I’ve never understood it. But I, I do appreciate that a lot of it has to do with covering up and just trying to hide from, from the world. Yeah.

**Katya Davydova ** 11:58
Could be I mean, there’s, there’s, there’s so many factors, right? There’s the family history, there’s genetics, there’s nature versus nurture. My, my goal is to not not blame because I don’t know, circumstances. And

**Michael Hingson ** 12:15
more understand than blame, I think blaming doesn’t help anyone. Exactly,

**Katya Davydova ** 12:19
exactly. But I think that just opened my eyes to the different ways that people show up and the different kinds of lives that that people have. And it also made me I don’t wanna say realize, because I’ve noticed before, but it also affirms how incredibly privileged I was, and am right to this day that I’m healthy, I’m generally happy. I’ve got a loving support network, a loving system. And I am lucky to have had the opportunities that I’ve had both in education in grad school and work and relationships and the things I do outside of work, like, there’s so much to them, which to be grateful for really,

**Michael Hingson ** 13:00
you know, I think a lot about being blind and not being blind. But one of the blessings that I feel I have is having never really dealt with different color skins. It’s strange to me that people can be so antagonistic toward people who have different skin colors, simply because of the color of their skin for me, I don’t care. I’ve never seen different skin colors. And I and you know, I don’t know what it would have been like if I had been able to see. But I would like to think that I’m a little bit smarter than that, and really don’t think that it really should matter.

**Katya Davydova ** 13:38
Yeah, yeah. Michael, how do you think that’s played out in your relationships? Because you’re literally like, you cannot see color? Right? So like, how has that shown up for you? And what has been the benefit to you and your relationships?

**Michael Hingson ** 13:50
Well, so first of all, intellectually, I understand colors being I have a, I have a master’s degree in physics, so we could talk about wavelengths and all that all day long. And so I understand it. And I appreciate that there are different skin colors, intellectually, but it’s the emotional part. So for me, it has never been an issue. And I’ve been able to walk around New York and places where people say, but you don’t want to go there. Because different racism. And all that night and kind of my position is well, you know, I don’t want to go where somebody’s gonna hate me. But at the same time, I think that a lot of the way that we behave, determines how people behave toward us. And so I’ve just never really been bothered.

**Katya Davydova ** 14:35
Yeah, I’m really struck by what you said, the way that we behave oftentimes reflects on how other people behave towards us. Can I tell you a quick story about that? very recent. Last night I got back from a very, very long day, I was facilitating an off site workshop on feedback scales for an executive team, and just had a whole whole bunch of things. I was out for like almost 12 hours, and then I had to come Hold it like actually start start the work right. So I booked my day job work and my other work. And I remember just sitting there as like I have so depleted I wanted a nap I wanted to eat. But okay, I won’t take a nap. I’ll eat of course. But let me just give give myself the gift of a walk before I dive into work. Because now it took, you know, several decades to know that you should always push your body and your brain to 100% of the time. Yeah, every single day. At the lesson that I still struggle with, we can definitely come back to that. But as I was taking this walk, I remember just being so radiantly happy, just ongoing and marveling at the world by it was golden. Our folks were out and about on their evening walks, I went to the dog park, there was so many puppies there. And it well, several came over and sat down next to me. And as just kind of walking through the streets like galavanting, right? with a huge grin plastered on my face is just genuinely happy to be here be alive in this world. And so many people, mild back waved from their cars, like honk just just like exchanging these little micro moments of connection, I got to talk to somebody from their car, we’re like, looking at those little robot delivery robots are the food delivery robots, and just creating these pockets for micro interaction among strangers, right, that makes you feel or that made me feel a lot more rooted. Yeah, genuinely rooted.

**Michael Hingson ** 16:27
In the very fact that you can do that and going around with a smile, this is always a much better way to to be anyway, and it does affect your outlook. And people will react to that. And they’ll react typically in a positive way, which is so great. Yeah,

**Katya Davydova ** 16:44
yeah, I think there’s just true, I’m leaning more into this now more and more, especially the last couple of months and potentially years is, how do I reflect outward, the best of my experience of the world and the best of myself, so that other people can be, I’m not going to try to make anyone feel any sort of way, but maybe to inspire maybe to put a smile on somebody else’s face. That’s something that I have loved leaning a little bit more into. One of

**Michael Hingson ** 17:14
the lessons that I’ve learned from working with a number of Guide Dogs is that they really take on or are affected by the, their handlers, they’re humans. And if you tend to act very nervous and very stressed all the time, or if you suddenly are walking with them, and when you get lost, or you think you’re lost, and you’re stressed, they’re going to react to that, because guiding is a very stressful job. And people who truly learn to understand the whole aspect of dealing with the dog. Know that, that for the most part, and there are exceptions when a dog is abused or whatever. But so for the most part, they want to please they know they want you to tell them the rules, and they want to be able to, to obey the rules and do the right thing. And if you act positive, if you don’t act panicky and you don’t act stressed, then they’re going to be happier, and they’re going to do better. And I have no better example of that than escaping from the World Trade Center. I could have been very stressed going down the stairs and been very nervous toward Roselle. But I knew that what I needed to do was just continue to tell them what a great job good job keeping what a good dog and, and that, in turn, as I did that, and she detected from me that I was okay. She was okay. So that if something were to suddenly happened in something affected her immediately, I wouldn’t know okay, something’s not right here. But it’s not the dog. There’s something else going on. But otherwise, interacting is such an important thing. And, and I think that’s just as true with the people or person to person interaction. You react positively. And so once you actually Asli for the most part, unless somebody is just really not connected, then they’re going to react possible. You can be too. Yeah,

**Katya Davydova ** 19:04
yeah. Michael, I love that you share the story of you and Roselle. And I also know that your current guide dog is Alamo. Right, right.

**Michael Hingson ** 19:11
Who is over here asleep on the floor? Oh, four.

**Katya Davydova ** 19:14
Oh, my gosh. I’m very curious. Do you feel that? I mean, I think the answer is yes. I was gonna ask the question like, do all of your or have all your different guide dogs have had different personalities? Oh, yeah. And if so, like, how? How do you either build off of that? What did the interactions feel like to you to all your dogs? Can you tell us a little bit more about that I’m still

**Michael Hingson ** 19:37
building a team, right? And working with a guide dog is creating a team. So in every case, it is still they want a team leader and I know that that has to be me. And what I need to learn are the gifts and the strengths of each dog hands and they figure out what works with me as well and the strengths that I have. But if if I am in consistent when I don’t always behave in a good way toward them, then they’re going to be frightened or they’re going to develop a fear on that side a bit thing. Yeah. So So for you, you you prove that last night with your walk?

**Katya Davydova ** 20:13
Yes, yes. proved it over and over again, right? Because the more goodness we put out into the world, the more I think we feel richer on it. Yeah.

**Michael Hingson ** 20:21
So you you went to college down? Did you get an advanced degree or just naturally sort of, I

**Katya Davydova ** 20:27
know, I went to grad school, I have a master’s in organizational development and knowledge management, because to trace the story there, after undergrad. So for the first 22 years of my life, I was convinced I was going to do a PhD in Clinical Psychology and go be a clinical psychologist to help other people with their challenges. And then I did a thesis my last year of college, and I decided that shout out to all my PhD errs, I have a couple of friends who have either just finished or in the middle of PhD programs, I decided that I did not want to spend seven years six, seven years in a windowless basement like I had my last year of college collecting data that is ultimately such a deep dive, but not a broad dive, I saw that that the impact that one piece of research, aka my piece of research, the impact wasn’t going to be as broad or expansive as I would have liked it for it to be. So I decided to xA going to get a PhD in clinical psych, and said sold my soul to consulting, which a lot of people did. I promised myself I wouldn’t, but I did. But in that organization, and in that job, I learned what it means like to feel a cog in a machine and to feel as just a mechanistic part of an organization versus a valued human. Like, of course, I had amazing co workers and I had well, I had amazing co workers. Gonna say things about bosses, co workers. Yeah.

**Michael Hingson ** 22:01
And some bosses can be good if they really understand what it means to be a boss. But that’s a different story.

**Katya Davydova ** 22:05
Yes, I think it is that and I also think it’s the systemic structure of the organization. So the way that that organization was structured was not systemically designed to amplify the individual gifts of people. It was meant to squeeze out all of the labor that they could. But I don’t think like I’m not not trying to badmouth them. I think that’s the the design of a lot of organizations today. Right? Like truly, and I study organization, so I see it in real time. So what’s

**Michael Hingson ** 22:31
the other side of that? Is that that when that’s all they do, they tend not to value nearly as much the human aspect of the companies go toward being a less human oriented and less person oriented organization.

**Katya Davydova ** 22:47
Yes, yes, exactly. And that’s not to say that, like, that experience didn’t give me so many valuable experiences, like I got to be one of the only folks who got to travel internationally, right, I got to do really impactful projects, I gave you a lot of skills that I still use to this day. But what it also opened my mind to was the fact that if we work for the majority of our lives, we should be doing work that feels joyful, meaningful, purposeful, and ultimately, uplifting. Not a nowadays, of course, but for majority of the time, because that’s our livelihood. And so I decided to switch jobs to get referred into a job in higher education. So I mosey back down from DC to Charlottesville, Virginia, but at the same time had applied for grad school in organizational development and knowledge management. So it’s commuting back and forth on the weekends for in person classes while working full time and living full time in the middle of Virginia. So those two years were just two and a half years were an insane flurry of activity of full time work full time grad squads do Toastmasters, which is a public speaking organization with working out with managing like, or navigating a long distance relationship across the country. It was a lot. It was it was a lot and what a bountiful season that was.

**Michael Hingson ** 23:59
Yeah, long distance relationships can be a big challenge. Definitely,

**Katya Davydova ** 24:03
definitely. Yeah, we had started out as, like medium distance and then get moved across the country and was like, Okay, well, that was just okay. Yeah, good lesson. He’s one of my best friends to this day. I love him with all my heart. He’s an amazing human.

**Michael Hingson ** 24:20
He’s he’s still across the country. No, no, we

**Katya Davydova ** 24:23
live in the world. We used to live in the same city. Now he’s in a different city, but we see each other occasionally.

**Michael Hingson ** 24:29
Yeah. Did you ever develop a family or is it still just you?

**Katya Davydova ** 24:34
It’s still just me. I am very blessed by the people that I have in my life, the relationships that I have friendships, but I feel very I

**Michael Hingson ** 24:41
kind of figured out because you talked about taking the walk yesterday and that was my impression, but still, having relationships and having good positive relationships and long term ones are still very important things to happen. And

**Katya Davydova ** 24:55
I agree. I agree. So you

**Michael Hingson ** 24:57
got your you got your masters do write them. What did you do?

**Katya Davydova ** 25:02
Then I realized that, you know, I’ve got my master’s, the work that I was doing in higher education, which was helping high school students and their families build up a good profile, a good set of activities, a good sort of pathway towards competitive college admissions. That was all fine at all, but I needed more impact. And I quit that job after finishing grad school. And I decided to kind of say, eff it. We’re moving across the country because I had visited Los Angeles a couple of times when I was in grad school and working full time, and I just absolutely fell in love with the city. It was something that was so vibrant, so sunny, the people were nice, the mountains were so close by. And I remember I was on a run in Los Angeles in December 2018. And I remember looking at over the think was the five is one of the freeways I remember looking at it over the five is like, I am so darn happy. Like, this is just this moment of elation that this is where I needed to be. And then six months later, I drove across the country to land in LA and have not looked back for a number of years now. It’s been a magical journey since I

**Michael Hingson ** 26:15
wake up to the Hollywood sign every day. Yeah,

**Katya Davydova ** 26:17
that’s my window. No, truly, I really do. I wake up and like, there it is. Hello, Hollywood. Yeah. And I just the reason I’m sharing the story about moving across the country is because there was an ethos in me that was present and that had been building, which perhaps some listeners can resonate with. The ethos was this, she dreamed it. So she did it. Right. It’s kind of like, if I was 111 years old, on my deathbed looking back at my life, what are the things that I wish I would have done? What are the things that I wish I would have said? And, you know, I read a lot about like books on studies on Regrets of the Dying or things that people wish they would have done. And, you know, I wish I worked less. I wish I spend more time with loved ones. I wish I took more risks. So I decided to really lean into that and just said kind of, let’s do it. Let’s just start a new adventure.

**Michael Hingson ** 27:11
isn’t nice and toasty down there today.

**Katya Davydova ** 27:13
You know, today is the perfect day of its thinking that low 80s It’s going to be a scorcher this weekend. Somewhere in the 80s. Yeah, I’ve got Yeah, friends in Sacramento. They’re like, yeah, it’s 108 Sounds like

**Michael Hingson ** 27:24
oh, yeah, yeah, they Well, but they’re hot air comes from the cabin. So it was a different story. But yeah, but I it’s like 93 here in Victorville. Yeah, supposed to get hot too. So we’ll see. Wow,

**Katya Davydova ** 27:38
thank goodness for AC right.

**Michael Hingson ** 27:41
You better believe it? Oh, my goodness,

**Katya Davydova ** 27:43
my I live in a historic building. And it doesn’t have AC in the living room, the dining room, which is where I work from. So lots of fans. So we’re just we’re circulating air here. But well, and fans help a lot. Yes, they do. I am their number one fan, a fan. I get it. Know You’re a huge putter and a joker. So

**Michael Hingson ** 28:05
I get it. So you move down here? And what did you start to do that when you started your own business,

**Katya Davydova ** 28:10
right the systems, the processes to help people thrive at work, because that’s, you know, my degree was very much into that. And I loved it, Michael, like it was such an incredible time to be able to build so I built out an onboarding program, a Learning Development Program, performance development, really helping folks thrive. And months and months later, the pandemic had just arrived in LA was just kind of getting settled, making, you know, friendships and relationships. And then we experienced this huge, like, blow out right of the world. And a month after that, a month after March 2020, my company merged with another company. And so there was layoffs, there was restructuring. It was a pretty dark time, to say the least a very, very dark time.

**Michael Hingson ** 29:00
What did you do?

**Katya Davydova ** 29:02
cried a lot. I think so I think a lot of people did felt the way to the world and realize that. Yes, the world absolutely feels exorbitantly heavy. Yes, I was pulling 15 hours a day working on my own work on side projects on just like trying to run on the wheel of productivity. I remember when we talked about briefly, how I kind of alluded to the fact that it was difficult for me to relax. Still very much the case but during that time, especially in the 2020s 2021 22 very, very difficult to do so because there was always more to do always wanted to be done. Yeah. But I realized that that’s not sustainable. And I was extremely burnt out. So I couldn’t go and we were some of the hiking trails were closed because I would let off steam by hiking running. They were closed. And I was like, Okay, I gotta do something within my locus of control. Again, going back to our initial conversation, and I just began taking walks around my neighborhood before work during work after work, and just noticing all of the ordinary things that were ever present, but really spending delivered a time and attention on them and seeing what I what meaning I could impart from those things. So just today I was thinking about this, I stepped on a really, really crunchy leaf, and it just like, Oh, it is so crunchy like, scent and tingles down my spine, things like that, right? Things that we just like, encounter in everyday life that are so plain so quotidian. What if we could really revel in their in their ordinariness? So

**Michael Hingson ** 30:36
you? You put up with a lot with all of that, and how have you come out of the COVID environment than some of them? Yeah,

**Katya Davydova ** 30:44
I think we came out of it pretty darn well, I, when my company merged with the other organization, that was also a lot of work, because again, went from being a team to being the sole person says, heading learning and development was also doing People Operations. Really good opportunity to develop rogram programmatic, I guess, scale to like, really build a program for a 400 person, international global company, of how to actually build systems, processes and micro habits in place so that people can learn, right, because I think we are nothing if we don’t learn if we don’t stay curious. And during that time, when I was exiting that job to go work elsewhere, I also decided to write a book, because I was approaching a milestone birthday. And I’d wanted to punctuate that period of my life with an exclamation point, versus just our standard ellipsis. Right, one year into the next I was like, No, I want to make this big go out with a bang. And decided to write a book, because that was a very, very hard thing. And never done before I you know, I have written for the majority of my life, but writing a book is different. It’s different. It’s very different. So yeah, and started my new job, started the book and moved in with my then partner all in the span of one month. And that was such a beautiful, expansive, wondrous season. I was very grateful for that time.

**Michael Hingson ** 32:18
And so what exactly are you doing? Yeah. So

**Katya Davydova ** 32:22
right now, I work as a leadership facilitator, where I teach managers and executive executives leadership skills, and I’m also a coach for high achievers to help them get from where they are to either a higher place or however they define that, or to a place of more calm, more peace, especially for my fellow high achievers can be very difficult for us to relax, but really helped them with building out those micro habits sustainably, so that they actually enact behavioural change that they would like

**Michael Hingson ** 32:49
to see. So are you doing this for someone else? Or in your own business now?

**Katya Davydova ** 32:52
For myself? Okay, so

**Michael Hingson ** 32:55
you have now branched off and taken the leap into your own business. You paperwork in all the forms that the California Secretary of State requires?

**Katya Davydova ** 33:06
Well, this is a it’s a to be to be expanded type of deal, because I saw my day job. Yeah. Okay. A lot of effort there.

**Michael Hingson ** 33:16
So what’s your day job?

**Katya Davydova ** 33:19
So I leadership, trader, learning experiences for managers and executives, I teach things like influential communication, feedback, strategic thinking, like yesterday, I taught a I don’t want to say the name but a famous well being health company. And it was just really, really cool to be in a space with the executive team with, you know, the CEO at the helm. And it’s like, wow, we get to talk so meaningfully about things that actually matter. How do you build a sustainable feedback culture at this young organization? How do you as leaders model these behaviors that repple down to the business down to the organization, that’s a deeply deeply meaningful work?

**Michael Hingson ** 34:01
So you you do a lot of different things relating to organization development, your speaker, you’re an author and so on. What’s your core motivator?

**Katya Davydova ** 34:12
I think it goes back to your beautifully articulated beginning sentence Michael of creating a more joyful world. For folks who might be tuning in visually I’m wearing a yellow shirt yellow is my is my color just because it’s the the color of lights, the color of expansion, the color possibility, and I’m some days I’m of sheer optimist. Some days, I’m a nihilistic optimist, happy to dive into what that means as well. But essentially, I really believe in the goodness of people, both as individuals and the collective power to be good and do good. And I think that we each of us, and I do I really say this with so much conviction and not like the try, like everyone’s good, but just a true conviction. that people are so good. And we have the capacity to do amazing things and to affect others in positive ways. That does not mean that we’re always going to be perfect. That does not mean that we’re never going to hurt people’s feelings, or or, you know, potentially even do unsavory things. But what if we could live in a world in which we want to see? Alright, I know that there’s a, there’s a famous quote in there. But I just I, I love the feeling of being able to connect people being able to make them feel like they matter. That’s what it is, at the end of the day, I want people to feel like they matter.

**Michael Hingson ** 35:38
And that helps you achieve.

**Katya Davydova ** 35:40
Yeah, it gives me a deep sense of meaning a deep sense of purpose. Purpose. Yeah. Well,

**Michael Hingson ** 35:50
and personally, from my perspective, I love what you what you’re saying makes perfect sense. You know, I don’t think that people are born bad. I think it’s a learned behavior that oftentimes too many people ascribe to and it’s something that really we we need to deal with and recognize that there’s a lot more power in being good in loving than anything else. Yeah.

**Katya Davydova ** 36:13
Yeah. I mean, Michael, let me let me ask you this question. I’m sure you’ve been asked to ask him before. But I’m curious what your response is, in this moment. What drives you to do the things that you do to spread your message to spread awareness to do you know, hundreds of speaking engagements a year? What motivates you?

**Michael Hingson ** 36:30
Well, I think probably somewhat the same thing that you do, I want to inspire I want to educate people, I want people to learn more about blindness, and that, that our view of disability is totally wrong. disability does not mean a lack of ability, and that every person on this planet has a disability of one sort or another. We could delve into that. But the reality is, I think that anytime that we can contribute to making people have a better outlook is an important and a good thing to do. Yeah.

**Katya Davydova ** 37:03
Is that something that you felt yourself cultivating as a child or something that you grew into,

**Michael Hingson ** 37:09
I always wanted to be a teacher. And my first job out of college took me in a different direction, sort of. But I ultimately realized that being a teacher doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re going to be hired into plant to teach in the classroom or whatever. And then, in fact, most of the jobs that I have had, including what I do today, is all about teaching. And that, that it’s important to teach the right and important things. And that in reality, I can’t teach anyone anything they have to teach themselves. All I can do is show the way.

**Katya Davydova ** 37:49
Yes, yes. I love that. And what’s what is it that keeps you going? Right, because sometimes being a teacher is difficult to continually have to exert some or a lot of ourselves to do so. What keeps you going?

**Michael Hingson ** 38:04
Well, I That’s a fair question. And I’m gonna turn it around in a second and ask you the same thing, but, but for me, look, I believe that that people are doing it. I love life, I love the fact that life is an adventure that we all should share him. I think that there is an absolute relevant world of morals and ethics and so on. And so it’s always frustrating when I see people totally ignoring morals, totally ignoring ethics, doing some of the things that we’re seeing people do in our in our world today. But I ultimately have seen too many examples of life is really composed mostly of good people. And we can be better for it. And we need to really emphasize the good and the love part. I’m with with Henry Drummond love is the most important thing in the world. And it is something that will transcend everything that we deal with. And if we don’t do it, it will destroy anyone who really decides not to truly be a loving individual. So it keeps me going knowing that some of those things are true. Some of those things work. And I want to continue to help motivate people to to do better and be better than they are. And maybe it’s like what you were thinking of the whole Gandhi quote of Be the change you want to see in the morning. Exactly. Yes. How about you?

**Katya Davydova ** 39:33
Yeah, I think about this question as it is interlaced with the topic of burnout, where in today’s as well. Yeah, and I would say in today’s society that folks are more prone to an experience more burnout more than ever. The reason that I contrast that is because at the end of the day, while systems, organizational systems worldwide system, global citizens are like me not designed for necessarily human flourishing, because if you look at the eight hour workday, right, that is an archaic practice from the 50s. From the line of Dr. Work that some people are definitely not working eight hours, some people are working way more, but the human brain and body are not designed to sit in a chair for eight hours a day and look at a screen. Right? That is my soapbox. Wow, I love taking us down this. And I say this because it can get very exhausting to show up over and over and over again. But I think that what it boils down to is that, to your point about making a brighter world, if we have a choice to show up as loving, as kind as caring, why wouldn’t we? Right? It almost seems like the me at least, I mean, I might be biased, but it almost feels like the natural choice. But I also think that this is not something that many of us consciously step into, like I had to get there. I had this really powerful lesson from my prior relationship, where my former partner and I, you know, we were living together had a great relationship. But he’s, again, still one of my best friends different partner than the other one I mentioned. And he told me, he’s like Katya, like, you nag me a lot, right? You like, tell me like, what what you wish I did more of what? What I’m not doing right. Like, you don’t tell me as much the things that I am doing, right? It’s like, Oh, my God, you’re so right. Like, I wasn’t giving him that positive reinforcement that we and research affirms is crucial, or strong relationships. Because according to adult learning theory, adults learn best by positive reinforcement by doubling down on things that they do well. And ever since he said that, to me, I like really took that to heart, because I asked him for feedback, after we broke up was like, Hey, give me some feedback on how I can be a better partner. And it was really, really valuable. And that’s one of the lessons that I carry forth with me. If there’s a way that I can positively amplify someone else’s experience, someone else’s work someone else’s, you know, anything that they do, why wouldn’t I? Yeah, it makes it better for everybody involved. And it feels so good for both

**Michael Hingson ** 42:04
parties. And, and you’re not doing it from the standpoint of arrogance. You’re doing it from the standpoint of love, and because you want to really be a helpful part of humanity.

**Katya Davydova ** 42:16
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it’s sometimes like, yeah, it can take effort, especially when we’ve had a day. It can be very easy to say like, well, the wild is dark, and I’m tired, right? So I’m gonna go like wallow. And of course, like, everyone does, I do that, too. But when we have the choice to show up as our best selves,

**Michael Hingson ** 42:33
I wouldn’t wait. Yeah. So tell me, what do you think having an unstoppable mindset means?

**Katya Davydova ** 42:43
I love this question. You know, I was reflecting a lot about this in preparation for our conversation today, Michael. I think there’s the tangible resilience, skills, the things that we can learn, right, all the coping mechanisms, being aware of how stress shows up in our brains and bodies, you know, employing techniques like deep breathing, or the 200 technique, or, you know, inviting cognitive offload. All of those terms, by the way, are terms that I teach for my day job, which I just love. But essentially, there’s the hard skills, right, like, if you experienced this type of stressor, here’s how you can cope. That’s one way to be unstoppable, so that you have the systems, the mechanistic systems in place to get you through our times. But I think there’s also the flip side of being unstoppable is having the belief that you are able to overcome any challenge that comes in your way. And if not overcome to your ideal, desired level, that there’s lessons that you can take from it. So if you overcome it, amazing, great, you’ve made it through made it past, if it didn’t go quite as planned that there’s takeaways to help guide you on the next iteration, the next chapter. And I think that that sort of intangible that second flavor is the more intangible that limitless belief that instead of a limiting belief, that you are capable, that you are able and that in the end, things will turn out however they turn out.

**Michael Hingson ** 44:17
So I’m sure that you’ve had in your life and you can point to times that you’ve had to face adversity, what’s gotten you through it, how do you do them?

**Katya Davydova ** 44:27
Yeah, I was actually just discussing coping styles, like there’s different types of coping styles of stress. And my typical coping style is just robot mode. I’ll share with you a story that about almost a decade ago, actually now, I was in a near fatal head on collision. And it was a really hard time everybody walked out it was it was all good. Well, all good. I put that in quotes, air quotes. I expected after that, that I would just go back to life and like, you know, maybe take some time to recover maybe like rest and I did not write I just continued pumping out at 100% 150% Just the way I had been before before the accident. And I tell the story, because when I tell my participants about the story, I’m like, you know, I should have learned to take better care of myself, I should have learned to slow down and actually rest. And I did it. But what got me through is that like, okay, like, this is going to be a hard season, I’m going to just go robot do the things that I need to do to stay afloat. But what I’ve been learning recently in the last couple of years is to actually listen to my body. If I’m tired, maybe that’s an indication that I should take a break. Right? What did curiosity what did that though? Just knowing to answer your question more directly, Michael, to get through hard times, knowing that there is going to be a different time, a time that I feel 1% Less bad

**Michael Hingson ** 45:51
tomorrow. So let’s go back to let’s go back to going robot. does that also mean you’re just doing things, if you will, by rote or being a robot, that it gives you your brain time to think and to process? And then of course, you have to listen to what comes out or learn to listen to what comes out. But does that then by giving your brain a chance to process? If you think that is true, then that’s it is it is truly a healing mechanism that that allows you to come out of it stronger and better for what you do.

**Katya Davydova ** 46:30
Yeah, yeah, I really think it’s a way of compartmentalization, where I know that there’s things that quote unquote, have to get done, right in order for me to carry on the way that I’ve been living. But I also think it can be maladaptive because I sometimes may not take enough time to grieve, right or to process, I journal a lot. So that that is my sort of grieving mechanism. And lately, again, as I said, I went through a lot of heavy things this past year, actually allowing myself the time to just like, go on a mountaintop and cry, you know, as a sort of movie like as it sounds, it’s really, really cathartic and healing to say, okay, Kati, like these are the things that are bubbling up, let them out, as opposed to squashing them down and dealing with them never so that they’re unresolved.

**Michael Hingson ** 47:16
Yeah, I think that’s part of the the issue is that if you just push them down, and you don’t pay attention to them, when you don’t deal with issues that come up, then you’re going to come up and get you in the end anyway.

**Katya Davydova ** 47:28
And intensify potentially and intensify. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I think having the sense of community around as well. I’ve I’m curious, Michael, how this shows up for you. But I haven’t been really great at asking for help, especially in my younger years, because I’m like, I can do it on my own. You know, I grew up very independent talking to adults, as I mentioned. And so I was like, I can do everything myself, right. But now I’m like, leaning on my community. I’m like, Hey, friends, like I’m feeling really bad, like helped, you know, and are like, what would you do in this situation, and everyone has shown up and just such the most kind, loving way. And just remembering that there’s people who want to be in your corner.

**Michael Hingson ** 48:05
And people who care, people who care. I, I have learned, especially and talk about it since September 11, that when I think I’ve learned it a long before then especially working with guide dogs, it’s all about teamwork and team development. But I think that there is a lot to always be said for having a team. And we may or may not necessarily recognize it. And sometimes we we may even just want to push the team away. But when we truly interact with the team, interact with the people around us and let them into our lives. It is such a wonderful, very powerful thing to do.

**Katya Davydova ** 48:51
Is there a moment like that that stands out for you and your life?

**Michael Hingson ** 48:54
Well, immediately what I’m thinking of is that that my wife of 40 years passed away last November. And so we we had been married literally 40 years. So suddenly, I was alone, in a sense, because now she wasn’t here. I did have a few months to sort of prepare for it because we knew what was happening. This her body started slowing down. She’s been in a wheelchair, her wife and her buddy just started slowing down and that happened for her. But suddenly, no matter what you think it was suddenly there and now she’s no longer here. Although I’d love to tell people she’s watching somewhere and if I misbehave, I’m going to hear about it. But But still, it’s different now. And one of the things that we did was I decided to have a meeting, kind of a celebration of life, which we did in January the week the shoe We did a service for her in the middle of January where we spread her ashes. And then the next week, we did a celebration of life online. And people came from around the world literally, to participate in that for her. And I realized how much not only she but I had in such a blessing with so many people who wanted to continue to be part of our lives. And, and then it worked out really well. So I, I love to stay in touch with people, but I also now value even more times of flight. So I can I can go through a good period of time and not turn the TV on not turn the radio on or anything and just have a quiet or I’ll just read a book. And that’s okay. Yeah, yeah.

**Katya Davydova ** 50:55
I really appreciate your sharing your story, Michael, that’s, that’s,

**Michael Hingson ** 51:00
I think it is important that we all need to take time to collect our own thoughts, and that we need to value other people. But at the same time, we also need to recognize that we have to value ourselves and in our lives. And ultimately, again, we’re our best teachers, and we have to teach ourselves.

**Katya Davydova ** 51:22
Yes, and teach ourselves not once, not twice, but iteratively, right, like set up potentially even systems or habits to remind ourselves, to spend time with ourselves to check in to journal to write to do whatever it is that makes us feel centered.

**Michael Hingson ** 51:34
I’m a firm believer that people should take some time every day to just think and as I was I talked about introspection. That is something that we we can do when people say I don’t have the time to do that too much do yes, you do. Always have to.

**Katya Davydova ** 51:54
I also used to be one of those people who’s like, I don’t have time I’m literally doing like I’m working 14 hour days. I’m moving from one thing to the next. And what I share people my schedule when I like, let them see my calendar. They’re like, Kati, this is insane. Like, I know, it’s insane. That’s why I don’t have time. But there is always time and micromoments right. Lately, I’ve been finding meditative moments on like, I bike to the gym, or I walk around the neighborhood or like, deliberately, if I can’t sit still, which it’s it is very difficult for me to still sit still. Then I’ll find that stillness as I’m physically moving. Right? And like the mind just comes down. I’m a rock climber. So whenever like I’m on the wall, holding on for dear life. That is such a perfect opportunity to think about like, nothing else matters. Besides this moment. That is it. Right you’re

**Michael Hingson ** 52:37
holding on? And the reality is we always do have time, it’s just that we make the choice not to. And that’s the problem that each of us has to grow out. Mm

**Katya Davydova ** 52:47
hmm. I wouldn’t even view it as a problem, right? Because problem or a challenge? Challenge, somewhat, but it makes it feel like like, you are at fault for

**Michael Hingson ** 52:59
not Yeah, no, no, I hear you.

**Katya Davydova ** 53:02
Yeah, I just I and this is still an unresolved thing for myself, too. And I share this right, even though I coach people on this, it’s, it’s still something that is such a constant work in progress. And that’s why like, I really like thinking about the micro habits, right? How can we design systems in a way that we don’t have to, we don’t have to think about implementing this every day, we’ve already designed the backbone of the system that can carry us

**Michael Hingson ** 53:26
through? How do we get people to do that?

**Katya Davydova ** 53:30
Well, we get to get them to think about their motivations. So starting with a why, like, what is it that ultimately matters to them? And it’s kind of like asking a ladder of lies, right? And why does that matter to you? And why does that matter to you? And what’s at the true core, or like, what is the core of your essence or your being, and then connecting behaviors back onto that. So mapping it to sort of like this giant tree trunk of why we’re all the branches, or the possible behaviors and the possible habits that folks might build. So for example, when my clients wants to build a little bit more structure in their morning schedule, and, you know, schedules are great structure is great, but why does that matter? Right? What will that ultimately give to that person? And so we were able to unpack that a little bit deeply in a way that the outcome was a sustainable, you know, chunk of time every day to connect back with themselves, because that was something that they were truly wanting and desiring

**Michael Hingson ** 54:25
in 30 years, how would you like people to remember you in your life, not that you’ve passed away or anything, but in 30 years, there’s a lot more time for people to develop memories about you. Definitely,

**Katya Davydova ** 54:35
definitely. I love that you asked that question I got I’m gonna marinate on it. But the answer that comes to mind is I would like to be remembered as a source of light, love, joy and liberty for others, and that’s kind of vague and nebulous, but I leave it vague and nebulous to be able to land a To the interpretation of each person, right, so if I can be that person that is able to make someone feel at least 10% better, if I’m that person who can help them craft systems or I can help them craft an environment where they do feel their most powerful, empowered, joyful selves, then I will have lived a great life.

**Michael Hingson ** 55:20
And we would have done something that’s really great. Yes, yes. What advice do you have for for people who are listening to this?

**Katya Davydova ** 55:31
In general, I love I love how to end the big the big hitters show like I love your style.

**Michael Hingson ** 55:41
It’s a sir questions that come to mind. It’s not that they were planned. To be honest, it’s that they’re devotee. Right? Scott talking. But anyway,

**Katya Davydova ** 55:50
I think it’s to continually remind ourselves that we have a choice and how we see the world. And to choose to see it in a way that ultimately is serves us and serves other people best. So my specific personalized version of it is to see the joy in the everyday to find little little treasures, right little moments of joy and wonder in the everyday, that’s my own ethos, yours might be that, you know, you leave the world feeling you leave each day, helping one person feel inspired. Right? Whatever the flavor of it is, the advice that I would impart upon folks, if I could have like a billboard that would shine across the entire universe. Or maybe let’s just keep it to Earth, planet Earth, the universe, in this one is to remember that we have the choice to show up and to try to show up as fully ourselves, and it’s probably our best authentic versions of ourselves. Because that’s all we have.

**Michael Hingson ** 56:47
And I liked the fact that you talk about it as a choice, because it is a choice. And we can choose to do that or not. I think that’s the important part about whatever we do, we we have the choice as to how we want to live, we may not always be able to control some of the things that happen to us, we always have the choice as to how we deal with it. And that’s what’s really important. Yeah.

**Katya Davydova ** 57:12
And also making the space that if we don’t feel like or cannot show up as our best selves that day, to not like get overly hard on ourselves about it, right? Because of course, sometimes we’re gonna have off days off weeks off seasons, and just keep coming back to it with love. As long as we get that word,

**Michael Hingson ** 57:27
give it to ourselves, and don’t get hard on others either.

**Katya Davydova ** 57:30
Yes, yes, exactly. Don’t let that spread. Well,

**Michael Hingson ** 57:34
this has been fun. I know, you’ve got to go off to another meeting, because you’re just so popular. So I do want to thank you again for being here. And I hope that all of you enjoyed this. Please let us know what you think I would appreciate it. If you would reach out to me, you can email me at Michaelhi at accessibe A c c e s s i b e.com. Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. Love Of course, as I always say, but I do mean it. We really would appreciate five star ratings from you, wherever you’re listening to this, but how do you how can people reach out to you and maybe take advantage of some of the things that you do and so on?

**Katya Davydova ** 58:12
Yeah, thank you for asking that. And absolutely plus, plus a million to what you just shared about reaching out to Michael. But if you want to get in touch and honestly do truly mean this to please please reach out. It’s just Katya at KatyaDavydova.com If you’re an Instagram, it’s at joy in plain sight, all one word. And if you want to find me on LinkedIn, it’s Kaya Davydova. If you’re someone who is interested in coaching and want to explore options for building more sustainable habits for life flourishing, I’m in your corner. I’ve got your back. Let’s have a conversation. Again. Katya @KatyaDavydova.com. It’d be amazing to hear from you. Thank you might be on mute Michael

**Michael Hingson ** 58:47
spell spell. Katya Davydova For us?

**Katya Davydova ** 58:49
Sure. Katya is K a t y a. And Davydova is D a v y d o v a Davydova.

**Michael Hingson ** 58:59
And you wrote a book?

**Katya Davydova ** 59:00
I did. I did. Called joy in plain sight. And how can people get that? You’re welcome to either find it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, I believe target all your online retailers. If you want to personalize signed copy, I have a couple of those still left available. So I’m happy to mail you one. Feel free to just email me Katy@KatyaDavydova.com

**Michael Hingson ** 59:22
Well, Katya, I want to thank you once again for being here and for doing this. It’s been a joy, and it’s been a pleasure and we need to do it again. Yes,

**Katya Davydova ** 59:31
Michael, thank you so much for cultivating the space I just feel radiantly connected and extremely grateful for having this opportunity to chat with.

**Michael Hingson ** 59:43
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit
. AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

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