Episode 236 – Unstoppable Company Culture and Leadership Revolutionary with Todd Kuckkahn

Posted May 31, 2024

If you ask Todd Kuckkahn about his mission in life he will immediately tell you that he “is on a mission to revolutionize company culture and leadership”. Todd has spent most of his life working to better communications, trust and teamwork. He is a life-long Wisconsin resident. He always wanted to be a teacher and actually taught professionally for several years.

Later, he moved to the nonprofit sector, but he would tell you that actually he continued to teach. He always has felt that we all need to do a better job of communicating which also means that we need to be more open to trusting each other.

At the age of 63 years, some two and a half years ago Todd left what he calls his best job to become a solopreneur. In other words, he went out on his own to further his work. As you will hear, Todd clearly is an excellent communicator. His insights and thoughts are refreshing and do represent ideas we all should consider and find ways to use.

About the Guest:

Todd Kuckkahn is on a mission to revolutionize company culture and leadership. Throughout his career, Todd has done countless presentations, workshops, and seminars at local, state, national and international conferences. Todd annually hosts Live2Lead featuring John Maxwell and other internationally known leadership speakers.

Todd is passionate about sharing his experience and knowledge in communication, leadership, generations, personal growth, and company culture. He writes for numerous publications, including an international publication.

His passion for leadership and culture earned him an independent speaker, coach, teacher, and trainer certification with (John C.) Maxwell Leadership. He is both DISC and DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) certified.

His numerous live and virtual speaking engagements include conferences for: International Economic Development Council Leadership Summit, United Way Great Rivers, State of Wisconsin Chamber of Commerce Executives. State Society of Human Resource Managers, Big Ten Conference Fundraisers, International Maxwell Certification, Special Olympics International Torch Run, New Beginnings Motivation, and UnleashU Now. He has also appeared on numerous podcasts and co-hosts his own, Crushin’ Company Culture.

Todd Kuckkahn’s professional work experiences include non-profits, education, government and small to large businesses. He has taught in four different college settings and three different high schools. His teaching experience includes entrepreneurship, collaborative leadership, international business, supervision, and leadership development.

He has served with numerous non-profits, including the UW Foundation, UW-Platteville Alumni Office, UW-Stevens Point Foundation and Alumni Office, United Way of Dane County, Wisconsin Special Olympics, Madison Children’s Museum, Marshfield Clinic, Girl Scouts of the Northwest Great Lakes, Portage County Business Council, and Pacelli Catholic Schools.

Todd is a proud University of Wisconsin graduate in education and holds a Master of Science degree in education from UW-Platteville. He is willing to travel anywhere in the world to add more value to others than he receives through his faith.

Ways to connect with Roberto:

https://toddkuckkahn.com/ (business website)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddkuckkahn/
https://www.facebook.com/toddkuckkahn/ (personal page)
https://www.facebook.com/toddkspeaking/ (business page)
https://www.instagram.com/toddkuckkahn/
https://twitter.com/buckybuckets
https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/crushincompanyculture (podcast)

About the Host:
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.

Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.

https://michaelhingson.com
https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/
https://twitter.com/mhingson
https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/

accessiBe Links
https://accessibe.com/
https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe
https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/

https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/

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Transcription Notes:

Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.

Michael Hingson ** 01:21
Welcome to unstoppable mindset. Yes, this is another episode, we’re really glad you’re with us. And today we get to chat with Todd Kuckkhan. Todd is on a mission as he talks about it to read full revolutionary, I’m really great at talking today, revolutionize company culture, and leadership. And I’m really interested to hear about that he’s been involved in leadership a lot in his life, as we will hear. And one thing, it’d be great to create a joke about it, but I won’t too much. He has had 17 jobs in his lifetime. And, you know, it’s kind of funny once during the 2016 election. Somebody was talking about all of Hillary Clinton’s qualifications, and they said she was a secretary of state and she was a lawyer, and she was a senator and so on. Oh, I think it was Letterman and he said the woman couldn’t even hold down a job. So I don’t know you’re even worse. But Todd, welcome to unstoppable mindset.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 02:24
Is that a good or bad thing being worse than Hillary Clinton? But it’s great. It’s great. Michael, and, yeah, I have had 17 jobs, some several most of them. I moved on my own volition, but a couple of them, you know, they kind of pushed me out the door. And we can talk about that. But it’s great to be with you. And thanks so much for pronouncing my name. Right. That is, that doesn’t happen very often.

Michael Hingson ** 02:44
Well, it’s an honor to have you on here. And I’m glad I got it. Right. And it cheated that I asked you earlier, but that’s okay. We won’t we won’t tell anybody that right now. We won’t tell him but so forget that, folks. But, but Todd has, has done a lot of things. I’d like to start with kind of the early times. Tell us a little bit about you growing up and all that and then we’ll get into everything else.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 03:05
Sure. Yeah, I’ve lived in Wisconsin my whole life. I left for a week for vacation. That’s it. So but a lot of love that love the state started out in teaching and education, but a lot of work in the nonprofit world. Throughout my career. That’s where a lot of my different jobs were spent a lot of my life coaching basketball at a variety of different ages. And then about two and a half years ago, I got the itch to go out on my own and become a solopreneur. And I really thought that felt a leadership was my calling. So I decided to make that flip and I’m a full time solopreneur as you said revolutionising company, culture and leadership. Wow.

Michael Hingson ** 03:44
Well, kind of really interesting and intriguing as to how you got there and why you did that. I know. You’re a badger. Absolutely. So that’s a that’s a good thing. My wife was a Trojan she only she did her Master’s at USC. I did my bachelor’s and master’s at UC Irvine. So, anteater Zott. And, and we’ve even been to a couple of the March Madness is, although only two and but the last time we got up to 16

Todd Kuckkahn ** 04:17
I think. So I guess I snuck in a couple times. Yeah, we’ve snuck in

Michael Hingson ** 04:21
a couple times. So it’s pretty good. So it’s kind of fun to to have your school represented, at least in some various ways. Well, we’re glad that you are here. So when you were in college, what did you get a degree in, got

Todd Kuckkahn ** 04:35
my degree in Broadfield Social Studies, and I wanted to be a coach. So in order to be a coach, you usually have to be a teacher. So I got I got my teaching degree in Broadfield. Social Studies, the professor that got me into Broadfield social studies actually in sociology. He studied he went into a bar and studied the patrons of the bar and it was the book he wrote was marriage in the family. So how that’ll happen about cheese, if you can get paid to go into a bar, and talk to other people and make money, I’m thinking, I love this. I love his career, but actually, I ended up going into teaching. Well, you know,

Michael Hingson ** 05:12
always another option for you down the line. I remember when I first was approached after September 11, to talk about my experiences, and so on. And people started saying, we want to hire you to come. I thought, this is really interesting. People want to pay me just to come and talk. Why do I want to sell computer hardware? This is a whole lot more fun idea. And go karts. That’s what I did. I ended up deciding that selling life and selling philosophy and educating people about the World Trade Center, and what we should learn from and so on was a whole lot more fun than selling computer hardware. And I found it very rewarding for the last 22 years. Well, it’s

Todd Kuckkahn ** 05:53
a great Yeah, I mean, sharing experiences like that making an impact on people helping them to kind of think through their lives through through your experiences in your life. And you can impact so many more people in that regard to in your world speak. And that’s what I that’s what I enjoy about it too.

Michael Hingson ** 06:07
Well, on the other hand, there is something to be said for going off and spending time in bars course. I don’t know what it would cost you to do that.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 06:18
I got paid. Yeah,

Michael Hingson ** 06:19
pay more than you have to spend. Right, right. There economic issues that go along with it. But that’s okay. So what did you teach?

Todd Kuckkahn ** 06:31
I taught my first teaching job, I taught psychology, sociology and history, I was always at least a half a day, a friend and in front of the students. And first, you know, the textbook and, and all the work it was quite a scramble at that first year, but really enjoy that. And then then the coaching bug bit went off to do some college coaching. But I loved I love the teaching. And I’ve been teaching in a variety of ways, really my whole life, whether it’s college or high school, or on the basketball court, or in a workshop, I

Michael Hingson ** 07:02
got my secondary teaching credential while I was getting my master’s in physics, and I plan on going into teaching professionally as it were. But then job things came along that that changed all that. But what I’ve realized a number of times throughout my career is I’ve always been teaching. And you’re absolutely right. It’s it’s something that in fact, we all do, whether we realize it or not. And those of us who realize it and appreciate it, obviously are the better for it. Yeah,

Todd Kuckkahn ** 07:29
absolutely. I, I, you know, whether I’m, I always feel I’m teaching if on the basketball court, or if I’m in the classroom, or even even a one on one conversation, you know, you and you and I are learning from each other while while we while we talk as well. So I think it’s, you know, I think it’s part of that servant leadership mentality, too, that people have and, you know, giving back giving back more than they receive and trying to help others and impact and like you said before, I think

Michael Hingson ** 07:54
that’s really important to do. And that’s a good thing that you did it. So how long did you stay in teaching?

Todd Kuckkahn ** 08:00
I taught high school was two different stints. One three years didn’t one two year stint. And then as I said, I’ve done some adjunct faculty work with there’s a couple of different colleges in this area. There’s a university here as well. So I have done some some teaching for probably, I don’t know, 1015 years there as well, but not as a full time profession. My full time teaching was about five years. And that was a few years ago.

Michael Hingson ** 08:25
And then what did you do? Well, then I coached

Todd Kuckkahn ** 08:29
college for a few years at university, Wisconsin Platteville actually helped recruit the team that won their first national championship down there, they won for division three national championships. So I was proud to be a part of that, that first one. And then I got into the nonprofit world, actually in athletics, doing fundraising, and then had a number of other jobs with Special Olympics. Children’s Museum, United Way, Girl Scouts, couple different universities doing doing fundraising and raising money for their programs.

Michael Hingson ** 09:02
Wow. So you moved around? Yeah,

Todd Kuckkahn ** 09:06
usually, I mean, I had several different jobs in the same in the Madison area, the capital city, of course. And yeah, you’ve got me around the state a little bit now. We’ve actually been in Stevens Point here in central Wisconsin for almost 20 years, we 20 years in June.

Michael Hingson ** 09:22
So why is it that you chose because clearly you did to not stick with one job, like a lot of people seem to like to be able to do and make that your whole career?

Todd Kuckkahn ** 09:33
Well, I’m most in most cases I was it was a way to advance my career. The career I was in, there was somebody in the you know, in the seat above me and they were well established and they were doing a great job. And I saw some other some other opportunities. There were a couple of times where I was pushed out the door. And now they’re not here to defend themselves, but I would say a lot of it was due to culture. And I like a culture where It’s fun to go to work. And we have teams that are working together and we communicate well share information. Some of my supervisors were a little bit on the micromanagement, kind of the the authoritarian leader, which I don’t really have a lot of time for. So a couple times that didn’t work out for me, but typically it was a better opportunity, or maybe an increase in title or salary.

Michael Hingson ** 10:24
Well, and some of that sphere, so you sort of, in a sense, kept in the same career, just different kinds of jobs. Right.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 10:32
Yeah. In the nonprofit in the nonprofit world with different Yeah, with different programs. So same field, just different businesses, different opportunities. Yeah.

Michael Hingson ** 10:40
Right. So when we talk about 17 jobs, we’re we’re abusing you a little bit, needless to say, but you brought it on. So you’re, you’ve got broad shoulders,

Todd Kuckkahn ** 10:50
I can tell you that that’s I will once in a while I’ll post on social media bought it, my wife kind of goes, Why do you tell people that? And I’m like, well, that’s, that’s who I am. I mean, I want people and all that, you know, you can certainly stay in a job for your entire career, if that’s what you choose. And maybe you move up within one organization, or you can move to different organizations and shift your career that way. And there were some really, you know, some really wonderful experiences, some great friendships that I’ve made that I, I still have to some degree. So, you know, for each person is different, right? How they’re going to handle, they’re probably only going to handle their career, how they’re going to work their career, so that that just worked best for me. Well,

Michael Hingson ** 11:29
that’s fair I, I’ve had a number of jobs. Through my career, I started out working in technology, and did it for the National Federation of the Blind helping to develop the Kurzweil Reading Machine that Ray Kurzweil developed back in the mid 1970s. Ray is an inventor and a futurist and created basically Omni font optical character recognition, which is great. But then I went to work for Ray after a project with the National Federation of the Blind and Ray together. But after about eight months, suddenly, I was called in and said, Well, we gotta lay you off, because you’re not a revenue producer. And we’ve hired too many non revenue producers, unless you want to go into sales. And so there I went, and you know, for me, the issue was, the unemployment rate always has been and continues to be really high for unplayable blind people. And it’s because people think that we can’t work and has nothing to do with whether we really can or not, and people ignore our resumes, but you’re blind, you can’t do this. And so the result is that makes it a challenge. But I went into sales. And in a sense, just like teaching, in reality, most of us are selling all of our lives. And what we really need to do is to understand that concept and understand the value of it.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 12:46
Yeah, look at look at it as a positive because we think of the, the, you know, the underhanded salesperson who tries to you know, you know, get a deal or something or, you know, something under the rug. And but it’s Yeah, so you’re right. I mean, every I mean, I’m married, and I had to sell my wife and I have to sell my kids and grandkids every day that I’m a decent dad and grandpa, and we’re always selling ourself or our business. And that’s why that’s why like leadership so much as well, too, because it’s really that’s about, you know, a authentic way of selling yourself really is what leadership is about. Yeah.

Michael Hingson ** 13:24
And in job interview is nothing but a sales presentation. If you really look at it. Yep, absolutely. Well, so you got very involved in the whole idea and the whole concept of leadership. Tell us a little bit about that.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 13:37
Yeah, it was interesting. I was I was at the Chamber running a chamber of commerce here in central Wisconsin, a gentleman came in and said, Tom, you got this program and you’d like to have the chamber promote it? I said, well, the challenge is you have to be a member in order for us to promote promote this kind of thing. That was our policy. And we figured out that if he would give us six tickets to the event, that was the value of a membership. So we decided to do that. And I was smart enough to take one of the tickets. I gave the other five away to volunteers and board members and things. Went to the event. It was a John Maxwell event called loop to lead. And I was just enamored with John Maxwell and and, Brett if at that point, he was turning 70 very fatherly type figure, grandfatherly type figure. And this really resonated with him and left the event talk to the guy again, they said this guy is interesting. So here’s a book. So he gave me a book to read. And then I got involved with some mastermind groups. And we talked about leadership and different leadership skills. And I went to one of his it’s called International Maxwell certification, and got certified with his with his team. And since then I’ve gone to three others, but that really, that was the impetus of hearing him speak and talking about leadership and other countries and talking about how he had so much he needed to do in his life, even though he’d written 80 books and the on and on and on. And then from there, I just start Building slowly, a part time leadership business doing speaking and workshops and then decided about two years ago that I wanted to do it full time and stepped away from probably one of the best jobs I have. What was the

Michael Hingson ** 15:13
job that you had at the time, that was a cheat, you’re still at the

Todd Kuckkahn ** 15:15
Chamber chamber, actually was there for six over six years longest stint with with any job and but I just you know, you have a job or you have a career or you have a calling. And I felt my calling was working in the leadership and culture arena, I had a good career in the nonprofit world, including the chamber, but I felt my calling was really much like you impacting people in a different way. And, you know, helping them avoid some of the pitfalls that I faced during during my career.

Michael Hingson ** 15:46
What do you think some of those pitfalls were?

Todd Kuckkahn ** 15:49
Well, I think it’s the understanding of truly what leadership is some people think that, you know, you get a title. And that makes you a leader. Well, because you’re president or an organization doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a good leader. It’s a lot about a lot about relationships, authenticity, being vulnerable. And I think leaders sometimes feel they have to put up this, this, this artificial wall, this barrier between them, and their employees and either micromanage them on one extreme, or in some cases, ignore them. So you know, Maxwell Maxwell says leadership is influence nothing more or less, nothing less. And I think that’s very true. Now, now influence not in the manipulative way, but influence in a servant leadership type of way, and really helping people be as successful or even more successful than you are, because that’s only going to elevate the team.

Michael Hingson ** 16:42
I think you brought up a really good point, to rephrase it slightly, or paraphrase it. We have bosses and we have leaders, and sometimes they’re the same, but oftentimes, they’re really not the same at all. Yeah,

Todd Kuckkahn ** 16:55
if you’re, if you’re into management, management is, is very structured. And you know, it’s important. I mean, you’d have managers in an organization, because there are certain things you have to do is particularly in manufacturing, but but leadership is is is above and beyond, and it’s really working on the relationship side, the people side, Marcus Buckingham, I run them to lead down my community, I went to it, now I run that event. And Marcus Buckingham said that love is really critical in the workplace, because human behavior defines what we do. And that’s what love is really all about now to talk about love in the workplace. You know, I hear a lot of phones clicking right now on the podcast, but I mean, it’s, it’s it’s not the kind of love that sometimes we think of in you know, that type of love. But it’s a love and respect for people, and then their human behavior. And we’re all different people, and how do we bring all these different people together to get the best result?

Michael Hingson ** 17:51
Well, and that’s, that’s really it, isn’t it, it’s a matter of learning to, to, to love other people and not look down on people. And the reality is, some of the best leaders in organizations recognize that there are times in the life of a team, when you essentially give up leadership, to let somebody who’s better able to deal with a particular situation, take the lead, and to lead it. And when you really develop that level of trust with your colleagues who you’re leading, it makes for a much better team all the way around. Well,

Todd Kuckkahn ** 18:31
you hit on some of the keywords that I love talking about. And that’s respect and trust, those are, those are so critical to a successful workplace. And if you have respect, if you have the trust, then you have the communication and people and then you’re gonna have constructive conflict, right? Sure. That’s the kind of conflict you want to have, you want to you need to have some conflict, you need to have some of that, that positive tension, because that helps you get even a better idea. And like you say, where you’re bringing all these strings together from all these different people, you’re going to end up with a much better widget or much better service than you would otherwise. One

Michael Hingson ** 19:05
of my favorite books is The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni. And he talks a lot about the fact that it’s appropriate to have real conflict in a team as long as everybody understands that the conflict is not personal, but it’s all about getting the team to a place and the reality is that sometimes when the team adopts a position and if it doesn’t work out, then you all recognize Okay, well that didn’t work out let’s go off and figure out what we do from here but it isn’t an I told you so issue.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 19:38
Well, that yeah, that five dysfunctions is yet another reason I like and respect you, Michael, I can add to the list because I think that’s it. That’s an incredible book and like you say, it starts with the basis of trust and with trust, you’re gonna have that conflict. And then you get then you get to you get to commitment, you get to accountability and you have the results you want but you have to be willing to call out your teammates and you have to be And except when you’re called out, as long as it’s done in a constructive manner, like you said, not, not not not a personal attack, and you shouldn’t take it as a personal attack. Everybody in the room, everybody around the table wants to elevate and come up with the best thing possible. And that has to begin with, with trust. You

Michael Hingson ** 20:17
know, one of the things I talk about a lot are dogs. Because while dogs I do seriously believe love unconditionally, unless something just really horrible has happened to them at the hands of someone, but they love unconditionally, but they don’t trust unconditionally. But the difference between dogs and people, and I think it’s something worth exploring here is dogs are open to trust, you have to earn their trust, but they’re open to it. And humans, especially nowadays, and probably to a degree always have not been nearly as open to trust. Why is that?

Todd Kuckkahn ** 20:53
I think because people are different, which is really, which is really sad. It shouldn’t, it shouldn’t be because people are different that we, we need to you know, like I walk into a room. And and I tend to give people you know, 99% trust until they do something or say something that would that would diminish that. But not not everybody is built and built the same way. And sometimes our personalities get in the way of, of trusting people, because maybe we’ve had an experience with somebody else, or worse, we’ve heard about something else, right. But once you experience people and the differences there’s I was talking about, there’s a billion different people in the world, we’re all different for a variety of different reasons, right? It’s not all about what’s on the exterior, the skin color, or the or the age or the eyesight, or the whatever the case may be. It’s all sorts of different components. And if you look at a kind of going on a rant here, Michael, but if you look at an iceberg, 10% of the iceberg is above the water, you don’t see the 90% that’s below and that’s the same of people that 90% that we don’t see initially, is really who the person is. And they have the same challenges and issues and opportunities and experiences and excitement that that all of us do. And that’s the part we need to get to, to that 90%. We don’t sometimes you don’t give people a chance, which is really unfortunate, I

Michael Hingson ** 22:12
would make the case. So the dogs are different in all dogs are different from each other, and so on, but they’re still more open to trust. And I think part of it has to do with first of all dogs don’t do what is dogs, dogs are in the moment. And dogs know that. Whether they realize it or not, they know that there are a lot of things they can’t control. And they don’t worry about it. They worry about what’s around them that they really can deal with. And we don’t we have to control everything, or we think we do. And it’s the rare person that recognizes that there are a lot of things that we don’t have control over. And that’s okay, let’s just focus on the things that we can. And it makes us better for it. Yeah,

Todd Kuckkahn ** 22:53
because yeah, as I have matured, ie becoming becoming older, I’ve really learned to let go of those things that that I can’t control. You know, when I think when you’re younger, you think you can and you want to try to control everything. And eventually along the way, at some point, hopefully you learn that, you know, I can’t control everything. And I really shouldn’t spend a lot of time worrying about things that I are outside of my control. I can I can think about a once in a while I listen to your show about them. But I want to focus on what I control, and there’s so much you can control. But sometimes you lose sight of

Michael Hingson ** 23:25
that. Yeah, there’s a lot that we can control. But there’s a whole lot that we can’t. And if we focus on the things we have no control over, then we get all the more frustrating because we can’t control them.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 23:38
Right. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, you know, we I have four daughters, my wife and I, and they’re one is going to be graduating with her master’s and may the rest are all off in the work world. And sometimes, and I think it’s part of maybe, you know, this is gonna sound sexist, but part of being a mother and a female is she just has a different relationship and wants to try to really she wants the best for them. But sometimes that best is a little bit is maybe too controlling and I’m fine with with letting my daughter’s, you know, make a mistake, not a serious mistake. But I’m willing, you know, let’s let them make a mistake and let them learn just like with my grandson, I’ll let him you know, do the same thing. Sometimes you have to let them bump up against that, that that comfort zone a little bit and stretch it a little bit, maybe make a mistake so that they can grow and and become better

Michael Hingson ** 24:26
people. There are things about our world today that make it a lot more scary. And it’s a lot harder, I think for people to let children make mistakes, because we got to keep an eye on I mean, there’s just too many predators out there and all that. And I don’t know, but I suspect that most people would probably make the case that we have more of that now than we used to, but at the same time, we do have to let kids grow. I was reading a New York Times article a couple of weeks ago that said that the one basic thing that we could do to help children more mature and more grow up to be better citizens in the world. is to let them make mistakes and not shelter them all the time.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 25:03
Well on the other thing, too, is my daughters and my grandson our had been involved with us sports, basketball, and you’ll go to a tournament and you know, there’ll be 32 teams there and everybody gets a ribbon. Everybody wins. Well, I mean, that’s really nice. But there’s only a difference. There’s only so many different shades of orange you can make out of, and what are the learning right? There, you know, there you have the school of hard knocks is, as you sometimes hear it said, I think you’re right, you have to, you have to fail to succeed and chasing failure will get you farther than chasing success, because he learned you can learn a lot more from failure. And obviously, there’s a point to that. But But basically, yeah, we need to teach our kids to take those risks. And you know, my grandson will come over and pull out a bunch of wood and make make a little bite jump. And I know it’s not going to work right right for him. And but he’s not going to hurt himself by let him fail, because he’ll figure out okay, what’s the right way to do it? So small example. But same thing, like you said, Michael, that let him take that risk, let him fail to get him out of their comfort zone? Well,

Michael Hingson ** 26:08
and what we need to recognize is that failures is I think it is true, it’s an opportunity. It’s a learning experience, it doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing. And that’s what we’ve got to get away from is thinking that failure is bad. Of course, the other part about failure is we can learn that it’s not bad, but a learning experience if we think about it. Alright, so that didn’t work today. Oh, I failed, I screwed up. That’s really bad, as opposed to all right. What happened? Why didn’t it work? What do I do next time and even the good things? How could I have made that better? We we don’t tend to spend a lot of time learning how to or teaching children and others how to be introspective and and look at their days, and analyzing what happens. And what happened.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 26:55
Yeah, and you look, you know, again, I spend a lot of my life in the sports world, you look at a baseball player of a baseball player hits three times out of every 10 300. They’re they’re considered a great hitter. Well, that means they failed. Seven times, if you look at, you know, Michael Jordan, Michael Jordan missed 50% of his shots. Right? If you miss 1000s of shots, you hear the story of Thomas Edison. I think it was his 10,000 Try, he finally invented the light bulb. But one that had been said if he had stopped at 9999 Sure, one more time. So you know, different scale of it. But but it’s the same ideas is like you said, learn from it, grow from it, make the changes and try it again, in a different way.

Michael Hingson ** 27:38
How do we get people to, to spend more time being introspective and analyzing what their day was like, and really learning from it. And, as I as I like to say, I used to say, when I listened to my speeches, because I like to do that. I was my own worst critic. And I realized actually, earlier this year, wrong thing to say, I really should say, I’m my own best teacher, because really, I’m the only one who can teach me teachers can give me information. But until I decide to teach myself and learn from it, then I’m not really going to succeed at it, doing what it is that the teacher would like. And so I’ve learned to say I my own best teacher, which is a whole lot more positive anyway. Well, I think, yeah, I think

Todd Kuckkahn ** 28:23
in the workplace, the way it is, you give you delegate, first of all, which a leader will do is delegate, not every leader likes to do that. And he delegate people, you delegate things to people tasks to people that are, you know, on a smaller scale, see how they’re successful. They are give some feedback both ways. You know, you give them feedback, they give you feedback. And as they continue to gain that confidence, you give them larger and larger projects to work on the first time, you might give them you know, one part of a project. Next time, you might give them half the next time, you might give them the whole project. And along the way, if you’re working with them, instead of waiting once a year at the annual review to give them a score that is meaningless. And you don’t you know, you want to give immediate feedback. So you can help those people grow their confidence while they’re failing along the way. And starting with those with those smaller sorts of things. Sure.

Michael Hingson ** 29:13
Well, I know that I always told every salesperson I ever hired that I’m not here to boss you around. I’m hiring you because you’ve convinced me that you can sell the product. But my job is to add value to what you do. And you and I need to figure out how best to do that. And it’s different for different people as you point out because we’re all different. But the people who really understood that, and we work together to figure out the things that I could do better than them, they could learn some of those things, but the things that I could do right off the bat that were better than they were able to do them meant that we could play off each other and create a stronger team. One of the things that I tended to do was I never asked closed ended questions I hate yes and no questions you what I mean? Oh, no, nevermind, I don’t mean yeah, see you did it anyway. But, but the thing is that what, what I learned was that the people who really got that actually got very creative and they took it to heart. And I’ve had several examples of salespeople who did that. But the people who couldn’t get it just said, Well, you’re my manager. And you know, I’ll come to you when I need something, which is really the wrong way to do it. Because I don’t ask closed ended questions. I also listen, I’m, I have to listen as opposed to looking at people. But that is a whole new dimension that most people would never understand. And again, the people who got that were were much more successful, and helped create a much better team.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 30:50
Yeah, anything. And asking questions of the people that you’d work with, like you said, asking open ended questions. One of the one of my now favorite questions I learned from somebody, I was working with a company creating a company culture team with them. And the person I was working with, she said, here’s, here’s three great words, ask the question, help me understand. So if someone’s struggling through something, say helped me understand what you mean. So get get people to explain things in a different way helped me understand why you’re thinking that way right now, rather than saying, well, that’s the wrong way to do it. Here’s what you should do. That doesn’t help them grow at all? Nope, me explain a different way. ask probing questions. And that’s really what I do. I do some coaching as well as part of my business. And that’s the successful coach isn’t that isn’t like that doesn’t have to be the most knowledgeable person. But they have to be the type of person that will ask questions of the of the individual help them come up with their own solutions. We all have solutions to problems. But we sometimes we need to have, you know, pulled out of us a little bit by the type of questioning, we

Michael Hingson ** 31:51
ask. Well, the other side of it is that the good coach, in saying helped me understand or when a person asked that of a coach, it’s a learning experience all the way around, you never know what else you might think of, or the other person might think of that they will contribute to you. That will help you as as becoming a better coach. And they wouldn’t have done that if you hadn’t established a teaming relationship.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 32:16
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It gets back to relationships again, right.

Michael Hingson ** 32:20
And always gets back to relationships, I love to go into sales presentations when I was selling. For quantum, for example, we sold the products that people would use to backup their computer data over their networks, and then store it off site somewhere. And I love to go into meetings and start asking people, What is it you’re looking for? Tell me what your needs are. Tell me why you’re even having this discussion with us today and other kinds of questions like that. And I learned so much by doing that, and going around a room and talking to people. And when she got them to talk that I could learn pretty quickly whether our products were the best solution for them or not. And if they weren’t the best solution, or if we wouldn’t be able to do anything to really help them with a product at all. Bosses would hate me for it if they really learned that I did it. But I would tell people what worked and what doesn’t work and why this isn’t the best solution. But the result of that usually was we got other calls from the same companies saying have more opportunities here. And we’re just going to order them from you. Because you’ve developed that trust with us. It

Todd Kuckkahn ** 33:31
gets back to that respect, right? You talked about before we talked about for respecting and trusting people and I’ve done the same thing. I have been in situations where I’ve turned on business, because that wasn’t the best fit for them. But then another project would come up down the road, and they come back to me and say, Hey, Todd, you know, really respect what we did the last time and but we’d like to come back with you now and talk to you about this as a possibility. So yeah, just that vulnerability, authenticity, relation, all the things we’ve talked about or just you know, be human, I guess, right, be human. Well,

Michael Hingson ** 34:03
yeah. So what we should do, it’s something that we we certainly don’t see nearly as much as we should today. In the world. We don’t, we don’t see people conversing. And we were talking about being open to trust. Unfortunately, we’re learning in so many ways. Why not to be open to trust, because people are saying, don’t trust this, don’t trust that, or this is somebody else’s fault. And we decide we’re just going to trust them. I’m not picking on anybody from a politic political standpoint. But I’ve heard so many people say, we like Donald Trump, because He speaks to us, we trust him. I can find any number of people who would say not a good idea. But the real issue is how many of us on any side in any of those arenas, really step back and analyze for ourselves? Because no matter what anyone says, We should really learn enough to be intelligent about it.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 34:59
Why’d you hit it? Yeah, you hit it right on the head there. Because we, and and with, you know, with social media and we, you know, we rely the sources we rely on to make decisions. Sometimes I wonder what we’re what we’re thinking about, and we should be doing our own research. Matter of fact, when the last election with with my wife and my four daughters, we have differing political views. And we would say something about our candidate or the other candidate, and somebody else would say, you know, prove your point, right, cite your source. And it’s like, oh, well, I just I heard that, well, that’s not a good source, right? You got you got to pull, you know, where did you hear it from? Was it somebody on social media? Who was just complaining? Or was it a reliable source, and oftentimes, you have to look at multiple sources. But we’ve gotten so lazy, and we rely so much on others viewpoints rather than researching our own. The other thing I tell people, too, is seek out differing viewpoints. So if you’re, if you’re if you’re a right wing, conservative, seek out left wing liberals to listen to her here. If you only watch Fox News, you’re just getting one part of the story, listen to MSNBC, and get it might it may change your viewpoint or may solidify our viewpoint, but at least are getting other feedback and other input to help you make a more more educated decision. But

Michael Hingson ** 36:17
I think the real issue is it’s just as true in the corporate world, it isn’t just listening to the other source or the other opinion. It’s taking some time to analyze it. Why why do you think that why that’s not what I’ve been told, that’s not what I understood. And you got to really need to look at that. But we’ve lost this art of conversation, which is one of the basic fundamentals of what hopefully makes us reasonably intelligent is that we we communicate with each other? We’ve lost

Todd Kuckkahn ** 36:49
that. Yeah. And this is where dogs meat went out, actually, because of beef, we will have to have communication. You know, it’s it’s easiest easier than it’s ever been in the history of the universe to communicate or connect with somebody. Yet there are so many people that are isolated. Yeah. Because they don’t look at other other viewpoints or even or even their own viewpoint for that matter.

Michael Hingson ** 37:08
Yeah. And it’s just, it’s crazy. When, when you’re a person that really does think about those things that’s sort of makes you scratch your head and go, Why is it this way? Which is another thing that we really need to understand if we’re going to change it. Why? Why are people behaving the way they are? Why is it that they’re not conversing? How do we address that kind of issue? So it’s also part of what has to go into the, to the whole mix, but you’re right, we should be listening to all sides, and truly making our own decision. Because in reality, take politics. People have agendas, and it’s okay to have agendas, as long as we understand that. But what we really need to do in making a decision is to understand all the agendas, and understand what’s going on, and then deal with it.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 38:00
I always like it when news agencies talk to protesters, doesn’t matter the new days and see doesn’t matter the protests, but they’ll interview the protesters, about whatever they’re protesting. And many times not just a couple, many times, the protesters don’t even know what they’re protesting about. Yeah, they just want to be out there waving a flag or waving a sign or, or causing, you know, causing issues. And it’s like, Come on people, if you’re gonna protest something, at least know what the heck you’re what, what, what you’re protesting, and what the real, what the real, what the real conversation is about.

Michael Hingson ** 38:37
Yeah, because if you’re not really cognizant of it, you don’t know. And it’s a little different, of course, but one of the reasons I survived being in the World Trade Center is that I spent the time to learn all about the World Trade Center and learn how to travel around and learn all the emergency evacuation procedures. And such, because I wasn’t going to be able to read signs, whereas sighted people rely on just reading signs, and very few people ever truly take the time to know but there’s another aspect of true knowledge, which is, you develop a mindset. And for me, I developed a mindset of knowing what to do in the case of an emergency. And yes, something could have come along, like suddenly the building collapsed around me in that case, I wouldn’t worry about it a whole lot. If I’m going to do it’s going to do but in in dealing with an emergency. I knew what all the rules were, I knew what the procedures were. And I was as afraid as anyone else. But what I realized is that the fear that I had, was a very powerful tool and I used it to help direct me and help make intelligent decisions rather than letting it overwhelm me. That

Todd Kuckkahn ** 39:51
that self awareness, educating yourself be knowledgeable, ask questions, you know, figure out figure out the path Do you need to take and that’s, that’s a girl, that’s really great story. And I’m glad to hear you’re out. I’m sure that’s part of your story or speak about. And I’m glad to hear that you’re out there sharing that because people need to hear that message.

Michael Hingson ** 40:10
Well, and, and I hope we hear from people who need to speak or to come out. And it’s kind of what I do so. So I’ll take my commercial time, it’s if people want to reach out at speaker at Michael hingson.com SPE K er at MI ch AE L H ing s o n.com. So there, we got that out. Beautiful, but it is what I love to do and talking about it. And establishing a relationship is important. I learned a long time ago that I don’t speak to audiences any way I speak with an audience and the only way as a speaker, and I’m sure you would agree, the only way to really work as a speaker is when you establish that relationship. And yeah, you may be doing most of the talking. But you’ve got to establish the rapport and you’ve got to increase and develop that relationship, the more you talk with an audience,

Todd Kuckkahn ** 40:59
and I, you know, part of the what part of my love is speaking is walking around the hallways or walking around the room before I’m going to speak, and just kind of chat with people or you know, say hi, or, you know, let them know, I’m going to be there and to you know, a little teasing. And if I see the better shirt, this is Oklahoma on and I’ll give him a hard time because I’m from Wisconsin, or you know, creating that relationship, and then it makes when you get on stage, it makes it that much easier to and, you know, just just little little things like that, that you can do. But yeah, and you know, everybody has a great message to share. Not everybody’s comfortable doing it. And everybody needs to hear your message. Not necessarily relates to it. But if you don’t share your message, how do you know, and that’s what you’re doing. You’re sharing your message. You won’t connect to 100% of the audience. But whatever percentage you connect to, you’re making a difference for them in their lives, and they’re learning so much more through you.

Michael Hingson ** 41:52
The biggest challenge I ever had at dealing with some of that as a speaker was I was invited to speak at an Ohio State meeting. And while I was there, they gave my guide dog and I’m trying to remember I think it was Roselle. No it wasn’t it was Africa the dog after Roselle. They gave her a bandana. And so she put it on. And almost the next day, suddenly I get a call from the University of Michigan wanting us to come and speak. And I had to say well, I gotta tell you that Africa my who is my seventh guide dog just went to a house state and got a bandana and she loves wearing the bandana. So I don’t know what I’m gonna do when I’m gonna get there. But then they gave me a bad event. And so we we did deal with it.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 42:36
You got it worked out? Yeah. would

Michael Hingson ** 42:39
really have been tough going to Michigan with an Ohio State bandana on a dog

Todd Kuckkahn ** 42:44
would have created some conversation. Oh, yeah.

Michael Hingson ** 42:48
Well, actually, I did take it with me and I just to prove that we had it. So it was fair. There you go. That’s what you want to do. Yeah, yeah. So worked out pretty well. But it really is a lot of fun to interact, interact with people, and get them to recognize that there’s a lot of value in true communication and to true trust. So it’s kind of fun to do. And I just wish more people would recognize the value of making that happen. Yeah, you’re absolutely

Todd Kuckkahn ** 43:21
right. And that’s, you have to have you have to have those conversations, you have to have that communication and so many great things can can develop from that including respect and trust and all the other things we’ve talked about.

Michael Hingson ** 43:31
So why are you on such a mission to revolutionize culture and leadership?

Todd Kuckkahn ** 43:37
I see what it can do in organizations, the organizations that I personally worked with and for and the organizations that I spoken with or worked with I’ve just I’ve seen the changes I’ve seen people you know not that not that shedding tears is a is a measurement I people shed tears and workshops that I’ve done. I see the engagement when I’m up in front of an audience speaking you know, you can you can feel that you can feel that in the in the room, you can feel the feel the mood and the attitude. And I just I love impacting people. And Ohio was impacted. I talked about Linda lead with John Maxwell I was impacted with with him speaking. And while I’m not a John Maxwell yet, I would say that that’s the same kind of impact I want to make. I want to add more value to people and I receive and I can do that through through speaking and coaching and workshops. Faith is important part of my life as well. So for all those reasons, I just love I love getting out and helping people in a particular way.

Michael Hingson ** 44:35
Well, and I’d rather that you’d be a Todd KU con than a John Maxwell. Because you are different, you know, so it’s fair. You don’t want to be the exact same thing. Well, you know, this brings up an interesting thought that just popped in. If you had one place in the world where you could speak what would it be? Wow.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 44:52
I it would have to be someplace warm by the ocean. Kind of extreme. I was talking actually talking to a guy, there may be an opportunity for me to go to Dubai. Now, I don’t know if I want to go to that part of the world right now. But, you know, maybe Sydney, Australia, or I would even take San Diego actually just applied for a speaking gig. And in San Diego, that’s a place in the US I’ve always wanted to go to, but I want to go to a spot where I normally wouldn’t go to but it would help if it’s warm. And if it’s if there’s ocean currents around and honest, even though it’s 61. Today in Wisconsin, you know, typically this time of year, it’s not. So if I can get to a warm place and speak to large groups. That’s what that’s what I love to do. So I’m not too I’m not too picky, Michael. Well,

Michael Hingson ** 45:43
it’s only 63 in San Diego right now. So. But but but you know, having lived in Vista, which is about 3035 miles north of San Diego, I am still of the opinion that San Diego has the best weather in the country. I think you’re in the world for that matter, because it’s so temperate. I wouldn’t mind going to Australia, that would be fun. I’ve been to New Zealand and loved it. Would love to go back. But I haven’t been to Australia. And I’d like to do that.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 46:15
someplace. Yeah, someplace unique. Like, it would be fun. Yeah.

Michael Hingson ** 46:20
I don’t know, I think it would be fun to be able to stand up before Congress and lecture them for a while and see if we could break through. I think that’d be a lot of fun.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 46:28
I’d love the I’d love to have an hour to sit down with five Republicans and five Democrats and just, you know, knock some heads around, you know, whatever, whatever needs to happen there. But there’s something there, right? Every there’s everybody has common ground, even, you know, the differences we talked about, and but we just, I remember, a state legislator would talk about this several, many years ago, you know, they would get on the floor of the Senate. And they would yell and scream and holler and argue and fight and not fight, fight, but fight, you know, for what they believed in. And then the session would be done, they go across the street to the bar, have a beer and you know, have something to eat before they went in for the night, right? The same people. And we’ve lost that. Because we are so sensitive about their viewpoints.

Michael Hingson ** 47:14
We have lost a lot of that. And there’s a reputation that that they had the Tip O’Neill and Ronald Reagan could work together. And they did compromise a lot of things over the years. And I remember once hearing at least the story whether it’s true or not, that they were talking about something the two of them Reagan and O’Neill. And I met Tip O’Neill, I had the opportunity to take some people from the National Federation of blind there during one of our Washington seminars, and we spent time with him. And so I appreciate the charisma and the kind of guy that he was having been able to interact with him firsthand. But one of the things that I heard as a story once that they were arguing, and then suddenly Reagan said to O’Neill, you know, I wish it were four o’clock right now. And O’Neill said why? And he said, because then we could stop. And we could just go off and have a drink together. And I see no reason why that didn’t really occur. They did have vevor, clearly from opposite sides, but they knew how to converse. And they may not agree on everything. But they also both recognize that they may not like decisions, but they had to come to consensus for the benefit of the country. And I don’t see anyone doing that anymore in the hole, or very few people doing it in the whole political structure of things. And so many companies are the same way. It’s again, the difference between being a boss and being a leader, it’s my way or the highway. Well, it’s not or shouldn’t be your way or the highway,

Todd Kuckkahn ** 48:47
you stole my exact thought through the same thing takes place in the company. And you have to, you have to figure out everybody has this different personality, I do a lot of work with disc and disc assessments. And, you know, it shows how people’s personalities are different when different. And when he respect those people’s differences and focus on people’s strengths. So much more can happen. And that’s true in Congress. So if you ever get the opportunity, let’s you and I go in there together and we’ll we’ll take care of business

Michael Hingson ** 49:14
works for me. I bet we could have a lot of fun. And, and maybe hit him upside the head and make them think a little bit differently than they do. Yeah,

Todd Kuckkahn ** 49:23
exactly. I like that.

Michael Hingson ** 49:25
i It’s just crazy. Well, you know, we’ll, we’ll have to figure out a way to do it. Well, likewise, if you ever get the opportunity, let me know I want to go along.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 49:34
I want you to get my side. Absolutely.

Michael Hingson ** 49:36
I will. I will take my current guide dog Alamo and he’ll he’ll go in and deal with him. In 2016. We were at a library well on an event sponsored by a library in Ohio. And so it was me and my guide dog Africa. And about a week before and we had planned this event months in advance but about a week before suddenly Donald Trump decides He’s going to come to the same town and hold an event. So I started spreading the rumor there. Clearly what Trump was trying to do was to steal my audience. And when we got there, it was still standing room only no one left. No one went to apparently his, his rally. Well, it was literally like three blocks away. But I had to have some fun with it. So when I got up to speak, the first thing I said is, I want you to know that this is an important night because I’m here to announce that Africa, my guide dog is running for President of the United States and brings a nose to the ground kind of politics to the, to the whole arena that no other candidate provides.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 50:41
There you go. That’s perfect.

Michael Hingson ** 50:43
We played with it on Facebook for a while, but you know, and then Trump never, ever called a consult. I was very disappointed. But neither. Neither to Hillary Clinton, although Hillary Clinton and Roselle met, because we were on Larry King Live together at the in November of 2001. So she got to meet, meet Roselle, which was, which was kind of fun. Yeah, absolutely. But it is interesting. We’ve just got to really deal with this whole issue of conversing. So I know John Maxwell, but who would you think is probably the leader in your life that’s had the most influence on you? Would it be Maxwell or you have somebody else that you would think of?

Todd Kuckkahn ** 51:23
Well, I think, you know, he would be in the in the, you know, I guess celebrity sense of the world. The gentleman who came into the chamber office to talk to me about limited Lee that I mentioned before, that kind of got me down that journey would be would probably be, you know, of the regular human being he or the non-celebrity, he’s had a lot of influence on me, in my both my leadership journey, and a lot of other my, my journeys as well. He’s one of those people that, you know, we’ll sit down and have lunch, he’s traveling, let’s see his family. But, you know, sitting down having conversations about really anything in our life is open, or our family or our faith, or our businesses or whatever. And just, and he’s that true, you know, true leader, true servant leader, he’s still giving, he helps me with the live delete event that I know, Ron, and doesn’t ask for anything. I still give him some, you know, I still give him some things but, but he’s not out there with his handout. He just he wants to help people like you. And I do as well. And that’s, that’s, you know, I constantly strive to be that kind of person as well. That’s

Michael Hingson ** 52:28
cool. And that’s the kind of person that’s always good to emulate. And I understand exactly what you’re saying, which really makes a lot of sense. Well, you have become certified and diversity, equity and inclusion, why is that important to you? And tell me a little bit more about that.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 52:45
Well, I want to continue to learn ways to bring people around the table. And again, there, you know, there’s 8 billion different people in the world, I’ve had some, I think, good and bad experiences with every kind of person you can imagine. Right? And we all have. So it’s again, it’s not about that 10% that we see it’s about the 90% that’s underneath. And I think that’s what diversity, equity and inclusion is all about is is learning more about that 90% I, shortly after the George Floyd incident happened in Minneapolis, I started a group here we called it uncomfortable conversations. And it was a group of community leaders and trying to figure out what can we do in our community to help in the area of diversity, equity and inclusion and that that kind of, I think at that point, I’d already received my certification. But I’m just I’m a sponge, I like to soak in the knowledge. And that was part of, you know, part of why I felt it was important, just helping you understand more different types of people is only going to help me in my career and what I do

Michael Hingson ** 53:44
well, and the whole concept of diversity is something that that is extremely important. Unfortunately, I find all too often when people get into discussions about Dei, and I asked people to define diversity, they talk about race, sexual orientation, gender, and so on. What they don’t talk about ever is disabilities. Which is why I end this podcast deals with it. When it comes up, it’s unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity in the unexpected meet, because you can’t be inclusive, unless you’re really going to include everyone. And that means you have to really deal with disabilities. And it’s just so unfortunate that so many times when we talk about diversity, the whole world of disabilities is not included. I’m sure a lot of it has to do with fear because we’re afraid Oh, somebody’s going to Well, I might my might be like that someday and I can’t do anything if that happens. And we we aren’t really working to develop a better mindset and a better understanding that a disability doesn’t mean a lack of ability. And you mentioned Thomas Edison, and I’ve said it here before every person on this planet has a disability and for most of you it’s like dependents. And Thomas Edison came along and invented the light bulb to give you light on demand to cover up your disability but it does to mean that it still isn’t there.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 55:02
I love that that’s a great way, a great way to look at it. And I think we all have weaknesses. And all those weaknesses come out, expose themselves are very different, some are internal, some are external. And but we also have equal or better strengths as well. And that’s, that’s what we need to focus on with inclusion is bringing that bringing those strings together for people to come up with a better and more a better solution, not a more better solution, but a better solution. And the more diverse the ideas are, the better solution we’re going to come up with, you know, sometimes, is here, organizations have these, you know, employee resource groups, or whatever they’re called. And they’re a certain, a certain, you know, race or gender. You know, I, you know, it’s like, why are we segmenting people into these groups that we’re trying to integrate? Or include with others? It doesn’t make sense. Why don’t we get, let’s get everybody let’s create, let’s create 10 groups are very different people, rather than 10 groups, okay, your this your A, your B, or C or D and your E that that just makes no sense to me. Let’s get people on the table.

Michael Hingson ** 56:05
Yeah, I’m with you. Well, if you have one thing you’d like people to take away from our time here today, what would it be?

Todd Kuckkahn ** 56:14
Well, it would be work on trust. Trust is my number one core value. You and I have talked about how important trust is in life and in the workplace and in government figured out a way that you can trust people and, and, and really worked hard and focused on it.

Michael Hingson ** 56:33
Can’t do any better than that. Well, if people would like to reach out to you and learn more or engage you in some way. How would they do that?

Todd Kuckkahn ** 56:42
I’m very active on LinkedIn and Facebook. I’ve got my own website. If you do Todd Kuckkahn T o d d K u c k k a h n Todd Kuckkahn.com. You will find my website if you do try to talk google.com You’ll find my email and I would love to have the opportunity to talk to all of your listeners if I can. I know that might not happen. But always love to chat about topics like this. All

Michael Hingson ** 57:10
right, everyone. Let’s invade Todd’s email.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 57:13
Bury me an email. I’d love it. Yeah, very amid email.

Michael Hingson ** 57:17
Well, cool. Well, it has been so much fun having you on here. We should do it again and come up with more things to talk about. But I really appreciate you being here and and I appreciate you listening to us out there. Love to hear your comments please email me You can reach me at Michaelhi at accessibe dot com AccessiBe is A C C E S S I B E. So Michael m i c h a e l h i@accessibe.com. Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. And Michael Hingson is m i c h a e l i n g s o n. So go to Michael hingson.com/podcast love to hear from you. Please give us a five star rating wherever you are listening to us today. We value your ratings, especially love the five star ratings, but we will take any that you want to give us but if you can’t make them five star that’s all the better. And please give us your comments and your thoughts. And I mentioned it again. But I’ll say it. I mentioned it earlier, but I’ll say it again. I travel and speak. So if you’d like to learn more about that, feel free to give me an email at speaker at Michael hingson.com. And again, one more time, Todd, we really appreciate you being here and taking the time to chat with us today.

Todd Kuckkahn ** 58:32
Well Michael, thanks so much and blessings to you and I hope you get inundated with emails and calls and contacts if you want to speak from here. I haven’t heard you speak other than on the podcast but you are awesome. So thanks so much for having

Michael Hingson ** 58:46
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.