Episode 229 – Unstoppable Observer and Team Leader with Gustavo Rodriguez

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Gustavo Rodriguez is all the episode title says. His family moved to La Puente California from Guatemala when he was just five years of age. As he tells me, his family wanted a better life especially for children. Gus says he had a normal childhood and eventually enrolled at the University of California at Riverside. He graduated with a business degree in 2019 and immediately went to work.

Today he serves as a team leader and feels he is well suited for the job. While he is young and has lots of experience years ahead of him, our conversation shows that he has knowledge that does go beyond his years. He credits this to the fact that he spent and still spends much time observing people and activities around him. He believes this comes in large part from his parents influence.

Gus and I talk a great deal about his leadership style and how he successfully serves as a team leader. He rightly points out that one of the most important aspects of what he does is to, as he puts it, “shut up and listen” to his team. He takes a personal and supporting interest in everyone on his team. He has been a leader of a team containing people younger than him up to people who he says could be his grandparents. Listening is one of the things that helps him relate to everyone.

I think Gus Rodriguez has good advice and observations for us all. I hope you agree as you listen to our conversation.

About the Guest:

Gus grew up in La Puente CA after his family moved here from Guatemala. Gus enjoys spending time with his dog Shadow whenever he is not at the gym or enjoying a drink with friends. Gus graduated from UCR in 2019 where he was also the president for LBSA ( Latino Business Student Association) for 2 years. His 4 year career so far has been spent in the roles of Operation supervisor, Sort manager, Inventory control manager and 2 Operation manager roles. Throughout his career and life, Gus continues to apply the principles of taking care of his people and trying to make their lives better.

In all his roles Gus has developed his team as he understands that it is not about him but rather it is all about the team. Gus contributes his success and his own development in each of his roles to the team that trusts him to lead them and get them where they need to be as well. A big difference in Gus as a leader than most leaders today is that he finds ways to ensure that his team doesn’t feel like a number to him but rather a group of individuals making an impact bigger than themselves. The trust that he creates with his team starts with ensuring they are open about their mental health to him.

Gus knows what it’s like to not be ok mentally but still have to work and carry on with his life. Gus is an advocate for mental health as he knows everyone goes through battles they may not speak of. Throughout college and his career he puts himself out there to let others also find their voice and feel more comfortable with not being ok. His goal is to continue to provide that comfortable environment for those around him so that they can also feel supported and be ready to take on whatever else life has for them.

Ways to connect with Gus:


About the Host:
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.

Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.


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Transcription Notes:

Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.
Michael Hingson ** 01:20
Welcome to unstoppable mindset. Thanks for being here and listening to us. Today we get to interview and chat with well I shouldn’t say interview because I really feel these are conversations but we get to talk with Gustavo or Gus Rodriguez. And Gus has a has a really interesting this I think story to tell. He is not too far out of college. And I especially like the fact that he lives about 45 minutes to an hour south of me down the hill, as we say here in California and Riverside. And we’ll we’ll get into more of his story and all that sort of stuff later. But Gus, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We’re really glad you’re here.
Gus Rodriguez ** 02:05
Thank you so much for having me.
Michael Hingson ** 02:09
So here we are. November 1 is when we’re recording this. Did you go out trick or treating last night Gus?
Gus Rodriguez ** 02:15
Actually not just stay Oh, Ma. That’s not some candy. And then Scotch just enjoyed a drink. Yeah,
Michael Hingson ** 02:21
I stayed home too. I, we, there’s a person who works with me, Josie and her family came over and trick or treated in our area, but one of the kids doesn’t really like to go out. So he and I stayed and watched movies and a popcorn and candy and stuff like that. So we had a good time. Well, yeah, so anyway, I’m really glad you’re here. So I know I’m looking at your bio. It said that you grew up in La Fuente. After coming here from Guatemala, when did you move here? How old were you when you moved from Guatemala? Oh, I
Gus Rodriguez ** 02:58
want to say I was about five years old when I say you have
Michael Hingson ** 03:01
a little bit of a memory of Guatemala. Yeah,
Gus Rodriguez ** 03:04
a little vague, but I gotta get him out.
Michael Hingson ** 03:06
So what what brought you to the US what brought the family here as opposed to staying down there?
Gus Rodriguez ** 03:13
Oh, just like many other parents, they just wanted a better education or thing for their kids. So you know, started off going to school. Last let elementary and middle school and then just kind of went from there.
Michael Hingson ** 03:25
Have you been back at all to visit Guatemala since moving up here?
Gus Rodriguez ** 03:30
No, not yet. I plan to one day. Take a little vacation over there. But for now, since you’re in California.
Michael Hingson ** 03:37
Yeah. Well, you have some pretty good weather. You probably have warmer weather than we do up here in Victorville.
Gus Rodriguez ** 03:44
Right now it’s about like the low 80s. I prefer it during the summer. So one thing I don’t like about Riverside is the heat.
Michael Hingson ** 03:52
Well, we get that in the summer, too. We right now at 64 outside so yeah, definitely a little colder here. And then then down the hill, as they say, but we are on the high desert as it’s called. So we are we’re a little bit colder. Well, so tell me about growing up what it was like and that sort of stuff.
Gus Rodriguez ** 04:16
I mean, growing up just like many other other kids in there, your loved one thing you know, you’re very heavy Latino culture. My parents did a good job of even though they didn’t end up together, raising me my sister. So growing up was just kind of seen mature conversations early on and just kind of seeing where I fit in the world so to speak. I always tell people that. I believe I’m a I’m an old soul, my young body just because I’ve seen a lot of mature conversations and how to do a lot of mature things at early age. Usually because of finances or just seeing some similar things that my friends went through as well.
Michael Hingson ** 05:00
So it’s a little bit tough from a financial standpoint. A lot of you’re growing up. Uh huh. Yeah, just kind of what kind of conversations or what kind of things did you have to deal with?
Gus Rodriguez ** 05:13
Oh, go first back to my family and my parents at one point, you know, there are definitely issues such as like eviction possibilities and things like that. So kind of seeing that and, like, come upon it. But finally, on my first job, truly valuing the most simple dollar, the value of money, so to speak, understanding the work, it is so nice to get that. And that’s kind of helped shaped a lot of even back in high school, my mindset of, you know, I don’t want to go to college, where am I going to get this money from? So I definitely didn’t sure I had good grades. I was involved heavily with extracurriculars, sports, anything I could do, organization on campus, that way I could stand out more, and then possibly get more scholarships, so I could go to college. And you know, thankfully, that’s exactly how it worked out. Would you go to college? Oh, newly about three minutes more liberal now, at UC Riverside, UC
Michael Hingson ** 06:11
Riverside, my wife did her undergraduate work at UC Riverside a long time ago. So I’m sorry, I fell Highlander. Yeah. Yep. She was very involved back in the well, early 1970s and late 1960s in accessibility, and helped bring a lot of wheelchair access to the University of California at Riverside and had some, some challenges. And during the International Year of the disabled, she was involved from a local chapter standpoint. So she, she’s very familiar with Riverside, I went to UC Irvine. So I was a little bit further down the road from you.
Gus Rodriguez ** 06:55
I guess. That’s that.
Michael Hingson ** 06:59
Yeah. So when you went to UCR, what did you major in? Or what did you decide to major in?
Gus Rodriguez ** 07:06
Oh, so I was like, most people my age, I’m like, I don’t know what I want to do exactly yet. But let’s play it safe. I was like, I’m gonna go into business. I started his administration, just because businesses everywhere. So did that. And then the concentration was general management, just because I didn’t want to limit myself to just marketing to just supply chain or finance, I wanted to be able to dip my feet to everything, so to speak.
Michael Hingson ** 07:35
So you just didn’t want to be a specialist such pretty
Gus Rodriguez ** 07:38
much I like to be in a spot where I have options.
Michael Hingson ** 07:43
So how did that work out?
Gus Rodriguez ** 07:46
So far, so good, believe it or not, throughout the few jobs, I worked in college, and also, again, the classes I took, I began to realize more of what I wanted to do, so to speak, where, when a when environment I want to be in and a lot of that came from when it comes to customer service, you know, I my patient is good even it’s like my direct team, but my patients only go so far. So I remember doing like for example, I’ve been working in supply chain or logistics after college, and all my teams really don’t want to have to deal with for the most part. And when I say that, it’s like I only got to worry about developing them, coaching them up making sure they’re happy. I don’t want to worry about anybody else. So those those jobs really my career and like I said those classes helped me realize that this is exactly more my cup of tea so to speak.
Michael Hingson ** 08:38
So you when did you graduate? I think what 2019 Was it? Yes, sir. Uh huh. So what did you do when you graduated? Thank
Gus Rodriguez ** 08:49
God I had a job lined up to be an operation supervisor for DHL supply chain pretty much like a week off after I graduated and then just straight into work.
Michael Hingson ** 08:59
So DHL the big shipping organization
Gus Rodriguez ** 09:04
Yes, it’s one DHL supply chain is a third party they deal with a lot of customers. products so to speak. So a lot of people confuse DHL. DHL Express that’s different
Michael Hingson ** 09:17
organization. Okay. Yeah,
Gus Rodriguez ** 09:19
they’re not related. They’re related to just different branches,
Michael Hingson ** 09:23
different Yeah, different branches, but it’s all the same sort of large company. So what does it mean DHL supply chain and what you do and what you did.
Gus Rodriguez ** 09:32
So DHL, though, it was, I believe is an acronym for the founding brothers. I can’t remember the names. I’m being honest. But I know it was. That’s where the DHL came from. And then what I did as an operation supervisor was basically you have a team of between 20 Plus team members, getting them to help us get the work done, whether it’s receiving, picking, putting away product or loading the product. in an efficient and safe manner. So we worked in a warehouse and we do that the customer Campbell’s. So we had to deal with a lot of what Campbell Soup, any smaller companies that they bought like, V eight, Prego sauce and many more.
Michael Hingson ** 10:17
So as a as a supervisor in the process, so what did you do? And is it? Is it still what you do? What did what did you do? And do you do?
Gus Rodriguez ** 10:28
So my job is to make sure, well, the way I explained my job, because I didn’t want to just follow like the standard stuff that I was who I should do, I like to go above and beyond. So my job was first and foremost, at the team was safe, whatever they did, because we worked with heavy, you know, 5000 pieces of equipment, making sure that they’re happy. And if not happy, at least content, because as much as I want to make sure everyone’s happy. I know, you can’t make everybody happy. But they won’t get along, they respect each other. I used to look at our performance metrics, whether it was individually by team member or as a team as a whole, and find ways to coach up team members, take away barriers, make sure they need the proper training, they got it, be able to explain the business, you know, top to bottom, so that we were possibly losing money. And at the same time, taking the feedback of team members like Hey, I think this process is better, and doing the deep dive to continuously improve processes.
Michael Hingson ** 11:26
So clearly, teamwork is a very important concept to you.
Gus Rodriguez ** 11:29
Yes, yeah, without teamwork, a lot of my success from Hobby Lobby here.
Michael Hingson ** 11:35
So what do you do specifically to create a team or build the team and keep the team kind of not only focused from a business standpoint, but also motivated to continue to do their work? Well, first
Gus Rodriguez ** 11:51
and foremost, at least with me, it starts with getting to know all my team members. Again, the operations manager was my first role right out of college. Since then I’ve done Inventory Control Manager, Operations Manager, multiple settings, store manager, area manager. And all those rules are fairly similar in the sense of again, making sure there’s camaraderie. Big thing for me is as I get to know, team members, it’s not just like a checkmark, like, okay, you know, I talk to you, that’s it. It’s like getting to know, little little things about themselves, whatever they feel comfortable sharing, what drives them, what motivates them, what they don’t want to do long term short term, in the most simple thing of how to like to be recognized. And as team members prefer, like a public setting, private setting, just so that way, they’re comfortable. And then as I follow up with many possible coaching conversations, or recognizing for achievements, you know, having those little plugins where I want every conversation to feel like they think their number, I want them to feel like they’re valued their actual people. The other day, I know, they probably have 1000 plus things going on in life, things could be going wrong, and they still find a way to get together and come up with him. So
Michael Hingson ** 13:02
how do you get people to really value opening up and then coalescing, because teamwork is really hard? You know, one of the things that we talked about, at various times, and I talked about on the podcast is the whole concept of trust. And in our world today, we find so many people not overly open to trust, and they’re not trusting, but the biggest thing is they’re not open to trust. How do you deal with that and get people to to change? Because obviously, if you’re going to have a good team, the members have to trust?
Oh, well, a lot of it comes from development conversations where even when I had a team of 150 plus team members, again, I took the time to know every single one. And with those conversations, moreover, again, like it could be a simple follow up, it’s like very next morning, instead of you know, saying, hey, you know, can you help me do this? They’ll say good morning. I was last night. I know, you said you went to do so and so. And then from there. Other follow up conversation that goes back to again, the development, they’re doing all the hard work realistically, in the sense of all the heavy lifting. The least I could do is like, Okay, this guy wants to be a lead supervisor, he was an inventory. I find ways to help develop them, set them up. So that way, they see that I do care, because though at the end of the day, you’re part of my team. I care about you, I care for you to an extent so that we understand that I’m here to help you. It’s not just oh, you know, there’s always more people. There’s always going to be report to me or if you’re part of my team, I want you to know that I haven’t back and then that goes back down to, again, kind of how you mentioned. Sometimes people are less willing to be trust, trusted or don’t want to share as much and I picked up on body language over the years. That’s a big thing for me. You know, someone could tell me one thing but their body says another I’m just being straight up with them as respectful as I can, of course saying, hey, like, I know you’re saying this, but I can tell like you’re not comfortable. Tell me what, you can pull out this conversation later. Or at least try this out. What can we hear and if you really don’t like it’s not for you, we can stop, but at least try it out. And then just overtime to begin to see like, I’m actually there to help or like, interesting to me. The here’s the positive outcome that came out of it. So that way, it’s not just me saying things to tickle the ears. It’s also like, you know, I’m following up, I’m being consistent. If you need something, hey, can you look into this for me? Sure. Because I have so many people asking that I write things down from them. And the other day, I looked at my sticky notes, am I right? Did I do this? Do that? Let me get back to so and so. So that way, they see that they’re doing all this? All these things? For me? The least I could do is have this follow up and just be as consistent as I can. Yeah. How did you
Michael Hingson ** 15:51
learn all that? I mean, I would say you’ve not been in the workforce very long. And that’s okay. But the bottom line is that you clearly have learned a lot as you have been in the workforce. And probably I would think some of that has come from earlier kinds of things as well. How did you how did you pick up all those concepts and start to put them to use? Oh, that’s
Gus Rodriguez ** 16:15
a mixture of things. So even going back to, there was a summer I spent with my dad when I was much younger, and he was a supervisor. And I would just pick up on things that you that, you know, he would tell me like, you know, here’s what made me successful, or even if he didn’t say, I could visually see things again, like the follow ups, checking in with his people, even though it’s like, Hey, can you get this done? You know, while on the way he will say hey, by the way, you know how the kids know things like that, that starts to pick up. And even when I used to be a picker, working as a, as a temporary team member in a warehouse when I was in college, talking to fellow team members, you know, what they liked or disliked about their supervisors managers even experienced it firsthand where I had a supervisor that didn’t even say good morning, they like, remember my name is point say, Hey, can you do this? And lo things about where I would pick them up? Like, you know what, if I’m ever in that position, that’s something I definitely want to do. Or in the most simple thing of when I was back in college, you know, BSA business organization, and I was the president, little things again, where I would assign my fellow board members tasks, but I would follow up, because I want them to feel supported, I wouldn’t give someone a task, if I didn’t feel confident that I could do it myself or find the resource to get it done. So little things like that over time, and then obviously been in the workforce situations are very similar, but that little details, that little detail that makes a different kind of key mental notes. So that way, it happens again, it’s like a trigger and okay, and react to that, so to speak.
Michael Hingson ** 17:51
So when you’ve got a team member who’s maybe not necessarily contributing, like they should, or maybe that you think should be contributing, and they’re not, what do you do about that? Oh,
Gus Rodriguez ** 18:01
well, first and foremost, it starts with simple conversation of what’s going on. But at the same time I, I bounced that conversation with, how can I help you, because I like to give the benefit of the doubt, nine times out of 10, where I believe people don’t wake up and say, I’m gonna start today work, or I’m not gonna do anything in the benefit of a doubt, like they come in, Hey, I see that you’re not being as productive. What barriers are you facing? What can I do to help? Is everything okay? And no, things like that. We’re just gonna have that simple conversation. And sometimes they brush it off at first, like, oh, you know, fine, everything’s good. Now, I’ll pick it up. Later, I’ll tell you what, follow up later, just to make sure that you do look at the follow up happens, they’re either about the same performance or just a slightly better, again, just that follow up where I’ve had team members open up in the past that, hey, I got this actually going on in my life, you know, divorce issues, the kids, etc. And just taking the time to get on time, listen, because, as I mentioned before, so much goes on in everyone’s lives that people often forget that, you know, other people are going through things too. And I think that’s also what contributes to my success early on is recognizing that at the end of day, yes, there’s a job to do. But I’m working with people. I’m leaving people hanging, understand that I need to have empathy and sympathy at the same time. So even if I don’t have kids at the moment, but if someone tells me that they should have kids, or, again, the list goes on, if I haven’t experienced that listing, then I’m saying, Hey, I haven’t gone through that. I appreciate you open up and tell me about that. But I think these suits my hope, or I’ll tell you what, I’m gonna follow up later. I want to make sure that I’m doing everything in my hands or my power to make sure you’re heard that you’re valued. And then again, those things usually help pick it up. Or sometimes they’re not as receptive and they still you know, they’re very closed off with those. I’m gonna start from my open door policy. But I still fall to the part of my job where I go to retraining work instructions, etc, making sure that do an observation so that way they know even if they don’t want to open up or they don’t want to see what’s going on, I’m still there to follow through the process to ensure that at least everything by the standard is being done correctly.
Michael Hingson ** 20:18
Yeah. Well, and that’s, that’s kind of important. It’s a matter of understanding all the way around. And as the leader, and I think there is a big difference between being a leader and being a boss. So that’s why I put it that way. But as the leader, you are the person who is needing to coalesce the team? Well, how would you define the difference between say, a leader and a boss, a
Gus Rodriguez ** 20:45
boss takes credit points, the fingers just tells people what to do and gets mad when results are out there. A leader takes the time to develop this people, listen to his people, lead by example, get his hands dirty, making sure that everyone understands and respects and as well as just overall making sure that when the results are not their leaders, reflecting on what he could have done better to not just be with one person specifically MSW. Okay, what could I have done to help that scenario?
Michael Hingson ** 21:15
Yeah, one of the things that I’ve always felt when I’ve been tasked with leading teams is I say to my colleagues on the team, I’m not here to boss you around your knee, the assumption is, you know what you’re doing. On the other hand, my job is to add value to what you do. So we need to figure out with each individual, how do I add value to you. And I think that’s really important. Because if you’re able to, to enhance and add value, you’re gonna make everyone obviously more successful, which makes you successful as well. But it’s about adding value. And I think that’s really pretty important to really be able to make that happen. So, you, you, you learn to somewhat connect fairly early on in life, didn’t you were doing that by being a good observer. And I think that’s probably the best way to describe it, you observe, and all the things that you did, and you chose to put it into practice, didn’t you? Which is always a really helpful thing. So what’s the really hard part for you in terms of connecting with others?
Gus Rodriguez ** 22:33
I think the hard part is, again, as a leader, as a person, I believe people should know, their leadership style, and not just leadership style, but even just what they’re like, you know, when I just like, What do I like in terms of my crowd of people. So I, for example, I tell people all the time, I’m an omni vert extrovert introvert, I love my longtime I, you know, my small crowd of friends that I like to spend time with, I really honestly like to spend time with people that I enjoy with, you know, I don’t have time for wasting, wasting time, so to speak. So understanding that, and then, when I come across a brand new team member or situation where it’s the most to me, like the total opposite of me, well, this person is the opposite of me, and drains my social battery very quickly. And the hard part is, you know, maybe it’s a long day for everyone, maybe mentally, I’m just right there, like my borderline. So just trying to bring together you know, to have the interaction so that way, even when those long and tough days, I get being consistent as possible with having a simple interaction. What do you think about it might not be that simple. But again, my interactions taking place. And then, at the end of the day, all my team members can say, even if they don’t like my leadership style, or they’re like me, specifically, they respected because again, consistency was there. And they see that I was feeling terribly across the board, I tried to help every across the board. And the other thing, too, is not just with necessarily that personality, so to speak. But certain key factors, of course, like when I first started, it was a little harder to connect with the older crowd, so to speak, because I was fresh out of college. Some of my team members could have been my parents could have been my grandparents. And it comes down to finding that in that respect, without demanding it. So I think that’s the issue that a lot of younger leaders or new leaders face is they demand respect, but they have shown little too early. So again, taking the time to find common common things to talk about. And even though there’s nothing finding ways to still see what they like, and go on from there. Because I guarantee at least there’s one thing that can always be discussed that you have that little small connection with that other team member and then you can you get to build that rapport with them. So eventually, they respect you, but it wasn’t enforced. It was also very transparent across the board.
Michael Hingson ** 24:59
Yeah, bye bosses demand respect rather than commanding respect by what they do, which is I think, again, that’s another maybe way to distinguish between the two do you have? You talked about two things I’m gonna ask you about both of those. You talked about it with some people, it’s easy to train your social battery. And I can appreciate that. How do you deal with that? What do you do?
Gus Rodriguez ** 25:20
Oh, man, work setting, private setting, they’re all very different. But we’re talking about the work setting it when it comes down to before and after, as I call it, I had just talked with a fella, one of my friends the other day, too, when you’re a leader of people, or even in my other roles, leader of leaders, you need time to walk away from the business not talking about like a whole day necessarily, but you know, like 510 15 minutes, whatever it may be to yourself, recharge, do something you enjoy, listen to a song, maybe lunch, maybe get a quick snack, just closed a laptop, step away, and being able to find that little piece in the middle of the day. So being able to do that before and after, especially most when you know, you go into one more that’s going to drain you really quickly, being able to recharge because it’s not fair, or the way I see it. It’s not fair to both parties. It’s not fair to myself, that I’m not taking care of myself. But it’s also not fair to my other team members, my other people that report to me if I’m not in the best, or in one of the best conditions to take care of them, if that makes sense.
Michael Hingson ** 26:26
Yeah, well, and I think that does make a lot of sense. It’s all about the fact that you have to be on your game. And no matter what others might say, it’s your own internal pressure that requires you to be on your game as much as anything. So the very fact that you address that issue and recognize that issue is pretty important to be able to go into situations that can be very draining, you do prepare, and it’s all about preparation, which makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and the other question that comes to mind is you mentioned that you’ve had situations where you as a young person, almost out of college, and were, were tasked with leading teams that had people who were significantly older, as you said, it could be your parents or your grandparents. Do you have a story of how you turned one of those around and made it work?
Gus Rodriguez ** 27:26
Oh, yes, I do, actually. So even going into like previous things we’re discussing, a lot of it comes from, which I’m sure we’re discussing today is the mental health, mental health portion. So one way that I was able to turn around was, again, very connectivity, and interacting with all my team members on a one on one basis, getting to know them. But this specific respect, I won’t say the name, but I don’t
Michael Hingson ** 27:46
know what I remember, I don’t need that domain names.
Gus Rodriguez ** 27:51
Having conversation with him. And everyone was always telling me like prior to like, you know, he’s always been a hot, he’s always been kind of to himself. And I’m just like, to take that time to see why he’s like that. So as I was conversations, besides the simple introduction, you know, Hello, my name is Simon. So I’d be your new supervisor, etc, etc. Just finding down and just being as blunt but as respectful as I, because I like it’s like a bad way to get out of the way. And just straight up, say, Hey, man, I noticed that you literally, you’re in unpleasant mode. And the reason why I’m following up is to make sure that you’re okay. If you’re comfortable sharing what’s going on with you can be a big mental health advocate, it can be the most simple thing that maybe is recent, or some has been around for a while. Here, you’re talking about it, you’re not inclined to but just know you have the option in case someone has ever offered that to you. And you don’t want talk to me, I can provide resources, I can point you in HR, that they can spread resources that maybe they connect to you as well, that will make you feel more comfortable. And it was like a little pause. And he he said some of the you’re the first one to actually ask me anything around that realm. And who knows how long. So what what in my office at the time, and you know, told me, everything was going on with him. We spent I guess, almost 3540 minutes. And the whole time, I was actively listening, making mental notes. And to make sure that he was heard. And we were done. I thanked him and said I appreciate that you were comfortable and open up to explain everything going on with you and why you were in an unpleasant mood or why he was been that way. And he ticked him off spec me for you to actually listen. And I would always have my follow ups with him as well. Okay, you know, just one follow up. I was going with this. Some days are good. Some days not so good. But I’m teaching other people my my better workers. If I needed something, the most simple thing I could be like, Hey, can you get this done? When you’re done? I’ll follow up with us. We’ll make sure that everything back home is still doing okay. You said yes sir. Whatever you need You know, as attention will take care of it. And Tuesday No, I don’t talk to him anymore because I’m no longer at that facility. But I hope he’s doing well. Tom about
Michael Hingson ** 30:08
communications, isn’t it? Nine
Gus Rodriguez ** 30:11
times out said, yeah, yeah,
Michael Hingson ** 30:13
people just don’t work at communicating. And and it’s scary in our world in general today, we, we have gotten to a point where it is so very hard to have any kind of conversations with people, people just don’t want to converse. And I realized that there are subjects that can be sensitive, you know, like politics is a perfect example, that we have gotten to the point where no one can have discussions about it. My opinion is right, yours is wrong. And that’s all there is to it. And we, we don’t, we don’t communicate, we have lost the art of conversation.
Gus Rodriguez ** 30:49
I agree. How do we fix that? Oh, man, I can’t speak for everybody like, but for me, like me and my friends. Because I have some friends that have different, like, for example, political views, religious views. I don’t like to put down anybody and say, like, You’re wrong, I’m right. To me, it’s just like, look, it’s your opinion, it’s valid, because it’s yours. As long as it’s not bring anybody down, by all means, you know, listen to it. I might, I won’t debate unnecessarily, as long as you don’t come from mine either. Or, like if you actually listen and understand why I have my point of view, and I will do my best to do for yours as well.
Michael Hingson ** 31:29
And that’s really the issue, it shouldn’t be debated should be discussed if you’re going to do it. And that’s that’s the big problem that people think you have to debate and my ways the right way and your way isn’t the right way. And we don’t get anywhere when we do that. The reality is that when we really sit down and listen, and have meaningful discussions, we may or may not change someone else’s opinion. But at least we hopefully communicate to the point where they at least have some respect for someone else’s opinion other than their own. Which is, of course, the big problem. All too often, that just doesn’t really go that way.
Gus Rodriguez ** 32:17
So, unfortunately, yeah.
Michael Hingson ** 32:19
So you, you clearly look out for others, who are what helped you really get into that mindset. And I think that’s a good way of expressing it. That it is a mindset that you look out for others and you help others.
Gus Rodriguez ** 32:31
Oh, first of all, most of my parents, like, I’ll start with my dad, again, going back to spending that summer with him. Just you know, he took care of his people, they need something he was basically like, Okay, I’ll get there as soon as I can. And he would. And then I would just again, observing how, how easily they followed him, because he was their boss. But because of those little things that I could tell his team, I was actually happy to be working for him. Another one is my mother. Growing up with a lot of things we went through, I could tell that some days, my mom would just appreciate somebody besides like a myself heard her out, things that she was going through. And that made me again, put myself in the shoes of, you know, my rabbits team and report to me, if their mothers fathers, whatever the case may be, again, they’re going through real life situations. And again, just hearing our providing an ear and possible solutions would go such a long way. But then there was also this went back to when I was a banker as a temp. Finishing my last year of college before I became a supervisor, I started off again, brand new, didn’t know anybody. No one really talked to me besides people that worked near me. Supervisor named a good morning just like get to work. But there was this one guy and to get under respect, I won’t say his name. But he older gentleman, he was the only one that actually went out of his way to Good Morning. How are you doing? I see you’re new here. Give me any help, please let me know. I’ll be over here. And it wasn’t just that one time again. He continued to follow up. He didn’t have to do this. But the fact that you did, it made me feel really good that knowing that you know, somebody noticed, I’m not just getting like another number, just another nobody. And even the days that I missed because you know at classes or things wildlife. The next thing I did show up to work, he’s a MC yesterday. Again, the fact that somebody notices, those are the things that really stuck with me and it made me realize like he’s not even like the supervisor or the boss, but that’s something that would want from my supervisor, boss. So those are things I started to pick up on and he’s no longer with us at rest in peace. But the fact that he took the time is what I’m trying to say and that’s something that whether it was supervisor me is a one of my many manager roles with game that it’s my team members. It’s the supervisor reportedly just taking the time to pull him to the side and say, Hey, work aside all all this BS that we can deal with to the side, what’s going on? Anything? How’s your mental health? And those are the things that just this little simple check in was, that went a long way not just myself, but went a long way for other people that came along for the ride.
Michael Hingson ** 35:25
So you did a lot of work in Business and Business Administration so on, do you think that college helped really prepare you for the kinds of things you’re doing now, when you’re talking about teamwork and all those sorts of things? And not the theory behind what you do? But real preparation and building teams? And, and the kinds of things that we’ve been talking about for gosh, now over a half hour? did? Did college help really prepare you for that? Or did that really come from other kinds of environmental issues?
Gus Rodriguez ** 35:58
It’s a mixture, you know, I’m a big fan of the education system if Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But at the same time, I think it comes down to obviously, whatever your your major your field is, like, for example, you’ve been in business is not just going to classes, because that’s the textbook only teach you so much, right? The textbook might be outdated with math might be there, you’re doing finance, that’s pretty much gonna always be the same, right. But like, in my case, when I’m dealing with when I’m dealing, but I’m working with people, my people were really helped bring that together was join organizations in college where you have to work together, where you become like an officer, like, for example, again, Latino Business Student Association, there’ll be a say, I started as a general member, my freshman year, and throughout the years made my way to be the president, being in that role was so crucial for my leadership development early on, because, again, I was able to apply, as you mentioned, observe and apply previous experiences that I already had, and seeing them how they play out with my peers, so to speak. So people move closer to my age, and then being able to get into the workforce and apply it but then adjust or tweak little portions because now it’s no longer people. My age now, it’s very different. It’s more diverse. It’s very different work that has to get done, so to speak. But still, again, the education system that your job when it came down to, since I was general management, I had my head and everything had given me insight to it. But then also getting involved with organizations on campus was the cherry on top, so to speak.
Michael Hingson ** 37:38
If you could change something in the whole education system, and when what you learned or what you did learn, what would you change? From a college standpoint, a curriculum standpoint,
Gus Rodriguez ** 37:50
oh, probably more like towards the first two years just because like, it wasn’t really towards the last two years that I got to focus more on what I wanted to do. So like the first two years was kind of like when I had like, extra electives that I really like, Okay, I’ve got these classes that I enjoy taking, okay, now I got these other two, you know, what I want to take with like what’s left? That’s not already like taken up by the the higher up, juniors and seniors so to speak. So being able to just have a little more control in the sense of, this is truly what I want to do. Let me expand my horizons in this area, compared to now it’s like, oh, well, I guess I’ll take oceanography because I have this free elective that any credits, but it’s like everything else I want to do is is taken up?
Michael Hingson ** 38:31
Well, how would you change the whole curriculum to make it more practical? Or would you
Gus Rodriguez ** 38:41
not the whole critical village has changed in the part, were truly just taking the classes that were going to benefit you the most, because again, you know, full respect to you to UCR, who respect to the professor, everything, oceanography, I went to that’s like one example. I only took that because, again, I had an elective, I need the credits to graduate and also, everything else is taken up. But we’re kind of forced to take that class. So now, if I could just change that and actually take a class that would have been more beneficial. Again, maybe like people organization skills, or you know, as it became a manager, and now looking back, like a lot more of the debit and credit, the finance portions, things like that, that would actually benefit more in the long term.
Michael Hingson ** 39:25
Do you plan on going back to school and doing any more studies going for more advanced degree?
Gus Rodriguez ** 39:31
Oh, the NBA is always in the back of my mind, but uh, it’s expensive. So with all the companies I’ve worked for, they all do provide tuition reimbursement to an extent, but it’s also trying to find the time right now. As mentioned earlier, on being on time, you know, it’s not just the trade off of the money but also the trade off of on my days off, do I really want to be spending more time even though it’s an investment in me that we want Spend time taken away from you enjoying the little thing is relaxing. So it’s always like a back and forth where maybe maybe who knows? I’ll go, I’ll go back. But if not, you know, I’m not gonna I like to say my experience for itself speaks so far for getting to those higher positions that I can go for.
Michael Hingson ** 40:17
Do you do much reading about different subjects relating to what you do management theory team building and any of that sort of stuff? Do you? Do you still study that in some way? Yeah, I
Gus Rodriguez ** 40:31
read a couple books here and there. A lot of my previous jobs, and even though I’m one of them, I provide books on leadership, like, actually, I’m on this on my phone, but it’s been balanced by a book right now, the question behind the question. So basically, you know, what, to really ask yourself, to eliminate victim thinking, complaining and procrastination. So little things like that, that I follow up with just so that way. It’s not just for myself, but then how can I get that concept and possibly use it on a team member that might need it one day, one of my leads, one of my supervisors, etc.
Michael Hingson ** 41:05
You’ve talked about mental health in various ways, and during our time, and and when we talked before, what prompts your great interest in the whole idea of mental health? Oh,
Gus Rodriguez ** 41:17
I mean, like many other, I won’t even say meters, this point, people. I’ve had my fair share of struggles with mental health, stepping back from college, and not necessarily from the stress college, but just life in general, you know, so, you know, things like that, that, you know, there was times when I wasn’t in the best headspace didn’t want to be closed off, just getting just a lot, a lot of like, 1000s of things going through my head. And just being able to, thankfully, now I’m in a much better, better headspace. But getting the help that I needed. And that goes into kind of what we’ve been talking about, as I get to know, my, my people, so to speak, letting them know that yes, you know, we got a job to do, we got things to take care of, it’s a business, but I want to make sure I’m also taking care of you. If you’re in a good mental health space right now. Great, fantastic. And I’m here to discuss it, you know, I know, maybe my had been a little different compared to the mental health issue they’re going through, but at least I know what it’s like to, to not be okay. And just remember, that’s fine, too. But it’s a matter of speaking, okay, in the hope, and ensuring that they always have an outlet for it. So
Michael Hingson ** 42:31
a lot of your mental health discussions are really arranged around stress.
Gus Rodriguez ** 42:39
I mean, stress of the things, it’s, it’s funny, it’s like the things that I can’t handle. And then once I do, it’s a great, that’s gone. But it’s also like the things that are out of my control to where, like many people I’m sure, like, you know, involves us, we try to kind of like, forget about it, because like, look, it’s out of my hands, how much I can do, it is what it is, but at the same time, it’s always lingering there, you know. So being able to, again, you know, make sure I’m still okay, taking the time, I need to make sure I can take care of others as well. But being able to find ways to limit that, that stress that lingers in the back of somebody’s mind.
Michael Hingson ** 43:13
So what would you advise to someone who’s maybe going through some sort of stress or mental health issue? And and that’s a such a general question, because there’s so many different kinds of mental health issues. But what what kind of advice would you give to someone or maybe someone who’s listening who may be having a hard time with something?
Gus Rodriguez ** 43:36
Easier said than done, but definitely figuring out two things. First one, maybe what, what triggers the most most of it, or what’s the main thing that you’re thinking of, and again, divide it to kind of what I said, which control you can control, and the other just gain an outlet. Again, if it’s my team at some time, if you’re comfortable, romantic at the time, you want to speak to me about it, I can have that conversation you about it, or the most simple thing is I can just shut up and listen, sometimes it’s what’s the one month just for someone to know what’s going on, to let them know that, you know, the world might not come crashing down right away, but at least someone heard him out. And then the other thing is ultimately, when you gain that lesson mentioned, or to gain help is once you figured out what it is, again, whether it’s a friend or family member, even just therapy, ensuring that someone is there for you. Because a lot of times I feel we have that mindset of it is what it is which you know, I’m guilty of it too. And we just kind of like let things ride out, things build up and eventually it comes out very nasty, or it continues to get built up and then you know, you’re in a much worse state than you would have ever been able to just talk to somebody about it.
Michael Hingson ** 44:48
You know, you said something that really is so important. It more often than not makes perfect sense to as you put it shut up and listen. We spent so much time Talking, and not listening and observing. And I love the fact that you are very much an observer. And you’re willing to listen, because a lot of times, really not a lot, you can say, it really is going to be best if somebody can just talk something through. I’ve talked to a lot of people who are coaches and talk to some people who are therapists. And of course, what, what, what most people would say is that it’s all about self discovery, or it very well can be that you have to figure out what is really bothering you. And good listeners can ask questions. But we really have to figure out most things for ourselves. And all we can do is be guided down the right path. Yep.
Gus Rodriguez ** 45:48
I’m big believer that, again, I don’t have all the answers. Even if I tell you, like, you know, let me get the right resources. But sometimes the most simple thing with working with others is just being an active listener, or just like being an active listener, but being able to understand that the situation that someone’s providing, or speaking to you about is something that you’ve never gone through, or you know, God will never go through. But the fact that you can be sympathetic and empathetic, relate as much as possible, at the same time, be as quiet as possible, so that when they just have their moment to be as vulnerable as they can with you. It’s such a such a huge thing that not many people I feel, see the value and until they’ve gone through it, or they see someone else go through it.
Michael Hingson ** 46:38
Have you ever had any examples where what you do as a team leader, and and an observer hasn’t worked, and that something just didn’t work out in terms of dealing with someone.
Gus Rodriguez ** 46:54
One of my roles, I would probably say there was like a, because what I observe is not just people’s actions by body language, or what they do. But it’s also like,
Gus Rodriguez ** 47:06
when they say certain things, I think about certain cues that the body does, again, kind of makes your body language too. But there was one time called a teammate with my office. It’s okay to let out whatever was going on. They were just, for a moment just quiet, trying to try and get the words because sometimes, and I’ve gone through this where it’s it’s hard to put into words, right? And it’s a little hard for me to listen or help if they themselves can explain it. So in that situation, that sounds like look, I understand. So I’m not forcing you, I’m not expecting you to be able to put in words, either. It’s like that sometimes. And get just a moment of silence where, at least for myself, I don’t judge, I don’t question it. To me, it’s like, you know, maybe this moment of silence, still them just trying to get everything together in there. And then ultimately, I cannot directly right away. But what I was able to do, I was like, Look, I kind of put you on the spot by asking that. So I apologize, that’s only, but at the same time, I also don’t want you to beat yourself up for not being able to explain how you feel because that’s valid. Sometimes you can’t, sometimes it’s it’s a mixture of so many things that we just don’t do it justice, right. So I was able to at least partner them with HR and they get to go to therapy. And unfortunately, at least with me, they they stop working after like a month after just because they need to take care of themselves and do what they had to do. But at least for me, it was it was a winning loss. It was a it was one because I would love to keep them on to let them know that you’re there. And I would have been nice or to feel that I could have done more. But it’s also a loss because again, I didn’t I can only do so much. And that goes back to being sympathetic, empathetic. Knowing where your where your life is. Also, don’t worry, like, as much as I would love to, here’s where I can’t. So I haven’t heard from them ever again. I hope they’re doing well. That’s what they do look back on and I’m just like, little guilty, but at the same time, it’s like, again, it’s only so much I could do you know, because I wish it was it would be more but sometimes it’s just out of out of my expertise, so to speak.
Michael Hingson ** 49:15
Well, you know, and you can’t teach people things and they really have to teach themselves all you can do is guide the way and there’s only so much you can do. Yeah. So do you spend much time like at the end of the day or at the beginning of the day doing any kind of self analysis or introspection? What worked yesterday or earlier today? What didn’t work? Even something that worked what could I do to improve it or what could I do to have addressed the situation differently? You know, may come pretty natural to you but do you do you do much self analysis?
Gus Rodriguez ** 49:53
Oh every day. I love my positions are the ones I worked in. ask the President now just because I know I tell people I know when I won, and I know when I lost, so to speak that day. And when I say that, it’s like I can kind of like you mentioned, go back and say, Hey, this didn’t work. What could I have done? What? At what point in the day should I have done this or being able to kind of, it’s like a, like a, like a football game or basketball? Look at the highlights. Okay, this was good. This is good. Okay, who’s where this went wrong? What could I have done there? So being able to replay that in my head, but also what I took the what’s on his head in that short term memory, we’re like, Okay, once you know, I figured it out. It’s done. Days, done, stop linger on it. Because I can change anything we look at tomorrow. Remember what I’m gonna do, or what’s gonna be done different. But in terms of the failure, so to speak, now, it’s like, forget it, it’s a new day, all you can do is get better, right? So, you know, the day I do that, in comparison to a previous state, what I went wrong, what went good. And even the days where everything, let’s say, you know, market already went perfectly smooth, can ask more. I still think back and look back. Right? I did this for the team with the this facility, the operation looks good. What could I have done for myself, though? Because at the end of the day, I think that’s the balance to where it’s not just a servant leader, and I just take care of my team and the business, but it’s also making sure that if I’m wanting to repeat that same performance, possibly, am I still in a position to take care of myself to take care of others and go from there? As
Michael Hingson ** 51:30
part of your leadership style? Do you regard yourself more of a servant than anything else? Many
Gus Rodriguez ** 51:38
times, yes. Because, as mentioned before, you know, a lot of the positions I’ve worked in, whether it’s supervisor or manager, the people that report to me, bless their souls, you know, they they do all the heavy lifting, I’m just blessed to be in a position where they trust my thinking, they trust my direction, the big picture that I want to go towards, and they follow Me, and they see that I want to step and get my hands dirty, too. But ultimately, I’m there to put them in positions to also succeed. Because, you know, a lot of my success, probably 90% of my success, even though I can look back and say no, well, I did this way. So why did this to set people up? Yes. But if no one is there to help steer the ship with me or help help move the ship. It’s just me by myself, and I’m gonna get you nowhere.
Michael Hingson ** 52:26
Yeah. Yeah, it’s still all about the team. And should be about the team. Yeah. So if you could, is there anything that you would change about your journey, your personal journey and your journey as a leader as well?
Gus Rodriguez ** 52:47
Oh, looking back.
Michael Hingson ** 52:50
Yeah, retrospective, a little here. Yeah.
Gus Rodriguez ** 52:55
personal journey, probably, my, it’s always weird to say this, because, you know, I’m only 26. I, my career’s only been about like, four to five years already, but I’m probably like, in my much younger port, or my mature started my career is looking back in, again, as a man advocate for mental health. Now, being a bigger advocate back then for myself to feel would have spoken up sooner or didn’t try and brush it off. So you know, I got this just, it’s whenever it is, what it is the other day, but I would have done that sooner, I would have probably avoided a lot more mental health damage or stress to myself. And I would have put myself in position for even earlier success, or just earlier moments of peace, so to speak. But in terms of professional, I would probably keep everything the same, you know, I’ve learned a lot. failures, pains, losses, it’s it’s all part of growing, then one thing I probably will change is going back to, again that you know, blessed so that when I was an attempt picker, they looked after me and he checked on me. I wish I had more conversation with them. Because I feel like those are the kind of people that we need in this world. And I feel like as much as he was checking up on me, I could have done better to also you check up on him and make sure he was good. Yeah. Well,
Michael Hingson ** 54:19
you’ll have I’m sure other opportunities with people to do that very same thing. And you know, more than you did before. Yeah. One of the biggest things that I talk about a lot on the podcast, and you’ve alluded to it, and I think it’s extremely important is we really need to not worry about the things that we don’t have control over because as you’ve pointed out, really stresses us out. And we really should focus on the things we can control because the rest will have to take care of itself and it will take care of itself. But we’re not going to be able to do anything to address it directly. And
Gus Rodriguez ** 54:55
you know, that’s something that even now I still it’s an ongoing battle because there’s you know, because it’s always gonna be a thing. There’s always things that come up where it’s out of my hands. But it’s like, oh, you know, you tend to just think so much about it. And I tell people that’s like one of the main killers or joys, just worrying about things that are out of control, which can easier said than done. But taking the time to just find those little things in life. Get your mind off of that, so that we can just enjoy yourself. Yeah, there
Michael Hingson ** 55:24
are too many forces that try to make us think about all the things that we don’t have control over. And it’s a tough discipline to just focus on the things over which we really have control, and to not stress and bother so much about everything else. But it’s a it’s a tough lesson to learn, but one that hopefully more of us will catch on to as we go forward, what’s the biggest thing you would take away from everything that you’ve done or has happened to you so far? Oh,
Gus Rodriguez ** 55:54
let me know. Thanks. Thankfully, I can say I’m applying it. But the biggest thing I could take away, not just for myself, but as I spoken to multiple student orgs and classes without going back being a guest speaker. And even just in telling my leads, and my supervisors that I’m trying to develop, the biggest thing I can always take away is, is a mixture of two things is one, take care of people, and they’ll take care of you. I believe that all aspects of life, you know, your family, your friends, your team members, take care of them, make sure they’re good, their mental health is good. You’re developing them, you’re helping them in any way, shape, or form to get better. So that way, they understand the impact that they’re doing impact that you’re doing in life, and even doing direct impact, because I believe that, you know, I might help this person, they eventually help somebody else the same way I help them. It’s a domino effect. And then the other mixture is just the end of the day. You know, life is life, things are gonna happen. Just make sure you’re taking care of not just your body physically, but mentally because I feel the mental points overlooked so many times. And that’s usually what leads to our, our own demise. So to speak.
Michael Hingson ** 57:07
You Yeah, certainly good sage advice to, to give to other people take care of yourself and watch out for others. Yep. Well, this has been fun, enjoyable, and I really appreciate your time. Can people reach out to you and talk with you in any way? How would they do that?
Gus Rodriguez ** 57:29
Oh, yeah, by all means, I believe you have my LinkedIn, you also my email, I think you reach out either one.
Michael Hingson ** 57:36
Once you go ahead and say why don’t you go ahead and say those if he wouldn’t and spill, anything that’s relevant to spell?
Gus Rodriguez ** 57:43
Well, the email is g r o d r 025@gmail.com. I’ll say that one more time. Gmail is g r o d r 025@gmail.com. As far as the LinkedIn and so it’s very long to say but just look up, Gustavoe. with a period, Rodriguez. And you should be able to find me the title of my position that was operations leader, that was a little easier. Sort of trying to find like operations manager, supervisor, etc.
Michael Hingson ** 58:14
And people can call you Gus. I would prefer it
Gus Rodriguez ** 58:17
just because it’s so cliche becoming unstoppable. It’s like it’s talking to my dad. There
Michael Hingson ** 58:21
you go. And it gets you to the point quicker also. Well, I want to really thank you for being here. And I want to thank you for listening to us. Hopefully you found our conversation useful and relevant in some way. I’d love to hear from you and would really appreciate you emailing me You can reach me at Michaelhi , m i c h a e l h i at accessibe A c c e s s i b e.com. Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. And Michael Hingson  m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. So Michael hingson.com/podcast. And wherever you’re listening, please give us a five star rating. We really value those ratings and your reviews. Hopefully, you really liked what you’re hearing. And if you you do we want to know it. And if you have any thoughts, suggestions, or ideas of other people who want to come on unstoppable mindset as guests and guests the same for you love to hear any ideas. We are always looking for people to come on unstoppable mindset. So one last time though, Gus, I want to thank you for being here. And we really appreciate your time and value all the things that you said. So thanks very much.
Gus Rodriguez ** 59:35
Thank you very much for having me. It was a pleasure.
Michael Hingson ** 59:42
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

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