Episode 21 – You Can Be Unstoppable Too! with Conrad Hall
Conrad Hall is an author of a number of successful business and marketing books. He also authors a “Getting Happy” book series. But he was not always so centered on success and moving forward in life.
On our episode today you will have the opportunity to hear his story and see how he turned many life challenges into a tool for moving forward. His experiences and his personal challenges have created a person who is successful and wants to help others be successful and unstoppable as well.
Some directories do not show full show notes. For the complete transcription please visit https://michaelhingson.com/podcast
About my Guest:
Conrad Hall is the bestselling author of six books on marketing (including two international bestsellers), host of Social Media: Cheap and Easy, and the founder of the Getting Happy book series. Conrad’s marketing titles include The Business Owner’s Guide to Social Media, Writing e-Books for Fun and Profit, and The Ultimate Marketing Sin. Inspired by Jack Canfield’s Chicken Soup for the Soul series, Conrad has launched the Getting Happy series. Think Chicken Soup for the 21st century. Each book tells a motivational, inspiring story of encountering a life event, being unhappy about it, and finding your way back to Getting Happy. And with each book in the series goes a workbook for those who need a helping hand with making practical progress. Conrad is also responsible for coaching thousands of local business owners, just like you, to increasing their revenue, their customer count, and their free time. Using Relationships as the foundation for marketing, Conrad has helped business owners implement loyalty programs to foster customer loyalty and retention. He has used local and inter-state joint ventures to make businesses more resilient and diversified. And he built referral programs that required owners to hire new staff, and even open new locations. He has learned from experts like Dan Kennedy, Mark Hall, and John Forde that all marketing comes down to relationships. It is the rapport you build with a person, not a prospect, that opens the door to doing business together.
Share your Personal Story at: https://GettingHappySeries.com/shareyourstory
About the Host:
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.
Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.
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UM Intro/Outro 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.
Michael Hingson 01:21
Welcome to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. And today we get to meet Conrad Hall. Conrad is an author full time now. He retired from doing other work, which I’m sure we’ll get a chance to hear about. He’s has been and is a veteran, and I think has some interesting stories to tell. And clearly has been very flexible and wise as he moves from one thing to another to know what to do and when to do it. So Conrad, welcome to unstoppable mindset.
Conrad Hall 01:52
Thank you, Michael. I’m happy to be here.
Michael Hingson 01:54
Can you tell me a little bit about your early years to start us off?
Conrad Hall 01:59
Um, yeah, cuz that will bring us back around to the book series. Guess the easiest way to phrase it or explain it is? I grew up being the third child in a family with only two kids. And I had parents who never let me forget it.
Michael Hingson 02:22
How did that work?
Conrad Hall 02:24
Well, it was, it was adventuresome. I grew up very much disconnected, grew up very much angry. And, you know, when you talk about unstoppable mindset, by the time I was 28, I had 32 suicide attempts, several of which came very close to succeeding. And in spite of that, something that was always with me was this mindset of, if I really do succeed, then they win. You know, the people telling me that I’m worthless, I’m not lovable, that, you know, or any other negative thing, they end up winning, because I’ve just bailed. And it took me a long time to get past the whole suicidal mindset. It’s like any other pattern of thought, you know, if you, if you grew up learning how to succeed and how to encounter challenges and overcome them, well, that becomes your pattern of thought. If you grew up being told that you’re worthless and unlovable, then that becomes your pattern of thought, especially if you buy into it. Exactly. And, you know, as a kid, you’re getting that fed to you, it’s pretty hard to deal with. And then as a teenager, you know, I just, I found my refuge in anger. And, you know, when I’m working with folks today, and especially when I’m working with kids, you know, I’m honest with them, and if that’s the only refuge you can find, then take it and hold on to it. Get through, just understand, there’s going to be a big price to pay when the time comes that you want to let go of that anger. And understand that it’s always a stopgap. You know, belonging is something that we all require. Genetically, biologically, it’s built into us. Babies who don’t have belonging who aren’t being held and cuddled on a regular basis, wither and suffer poor health and throw your life if you’re in that situation where you are not getting hugs, you’re not getting physical Attention, then it does have a negative effect on both your physical and mental health. And the great thing is, the older you get. And hopefully the sooner you realize that your life is a result of your choices. And so whatever your past was, at any point in time, you can say, You know what, I’m done with that past, I no longer need it. I don’t want to be associated with it. And I want to go out a new direction in life. I want to choose to build a strong positive self image. I want to choose to find good healthy relationships. And I’m going to take responsibility for me, and for my life. And the way you go,
Michael Hingson 05:52
you just said something really interesting. And I want to follow up on on it with a question, you talked about making choices, something that I have felt for a long time. And I believe that doing a lot of self analysis, I can trace how I got to where I am, by the choices I’ve made. I’ve gathered that you are saying you can do sort of the same thing that you can go back and look at the choices that you made and the results that happened from them, and how that led to other choices and so on that got you to where you are.
Conrad Hall 06:25
Absolutely. Now even a really big life event that resulted in the writing of this book, and the launching of the book series is I got divorced in 2012. And it absolutely turned my life upside down. And when I, I worked on writing the book, I got the manuscript finished. I showed it to a friend of mine, who was also an author and a copywriter. And he does a lot of editing. And I asked him what he thought, and he was not non committal. He didn’t want to say, and I’m like, dude, okay, I’m not gonna break now. Tell me what’s going on. And he said, Well, you do a lot of blaming in this manuscript. And we ended up doing two rounds of edits, focused solely on scrubbing out that blaming language. Other because we always get this thing? Well, I only did that because she did this, or I only did that because he did this. And it’s this almost natural thing that rather than say, You know what, I did it. And it was the wrong thing to do. And I’m taking responsibility for it. Which I can tell you from personal experience, that’s really hard to say, you know, I goofed, I got it wrong. And now I need to go make it right. It’s far easier to say, Well, I only did it because he upset me or she took my apple or, you know, finding some reason to blame somebody else. That’s easy to do. But it gets you know, where it lands, you being a victim, instead of being empowered and moving forward and building your life.
Michael Hingson 08:24
Why is that? So easy to do?
Conrad Hall 08:29
Why does dirt roll downhill? Yeah, because we we will live up to or down to expectations. And if we can get away with saying it’s someone else’s fault. We do. And it I am convinced that we get into that pattern. Because it’s what we learn as we’re growing up. You know, our parents let us get away with saying, Well, I did it because you know, my sister did this or my brother did that rather than holding us accountable. And then when we get into adult life it’s really easy when you’re at work to say well, I didn’t get all the welding done because the parts didn’t show up. Which is true. And if you couldn’t do it because that stuff didn’t show up. It’s really easy to carry that over into areas where you absolutely do have control. And like I mentioned a little while ago it’s you know if I love you is a powerful statement. Please forgive me and I’m sorry, while being equally powerful statements are so often much more difficult to say. You know, you can tell your wife You love her might be like pulling teeth. Okay, I love you. But to ever admit you were wrong to apologize. It’s almost as though if you do that you are somehow weaker. When the truth is, you know the person that can admit to being wrong, and say, Okay, let’s find a solution. That’s a very strong person, that is someone who’s very confident in themselves, and who is willing to admit to being wrong, and then look for the solution.
Michael Hingson 10:45
Many years ago, I participated in an accountability group, I was actually part of a Christian program run by the Methodist church called Walk to Emmaus. And we had a pretty close knit group, where we lived in Vista, California, and we met every week. But it was interesting to see those who lived up to the concept of accountability. And those who didn’t really want to be held accountable for what they did, or what they committed to. And it is something that we face a lot. One of my favorite books is The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni. And he talks a lot in the whole concept of team building, about accountability, and using that to help grow and develop trust. Right. And it’s, it is so often that we just don’t want to be held accountable. And I think though, and as you imply it, I think it is a, it is a learned skill, to learn not to be accountable, but it could just as easily go the other way. And nowadays, there’s so much craziness going on and everything that we see in the world, that most people just don’t want to be held accountable. They’re not held accountable, and they they ridicule those who choose to really live up to the whole concept of accountability.
Conrad Hall 12:19
Yes, yeah, it’s, I’m wrong. I want to be free to be wrong. If there are consequences, I want you to clean them up. And I want you to pat me on the back for being wrong. And tell me that I’m a good little boy for being wrong. You know, one of the things that I use because with getting happy series, every book in the series comes with a workbook. So if you want to make practical progress you need you need a helping hand. There’s a workbook so you can work your way back toward getting happy, through whatever life event it is that you’re experiencing. And one of the things that I use is I talk about PAP and poop. And pap is personal empowerment practices. Poop is personally offensive, obstructive practices. And the approach I take is to say, you know, Pap, or poop, which would you like more of in your life? People invariably put their hand up and say, oh, I want more pap. Mm hmm. And then when you talk to them about what they’re actually doing on a day to day basis, they’re filling their lives with poop. They’re lying and saying it’s a good thing to do. They criticize people, instead of caring about them. They complain, they threaten, they nag. They, they just do things that are easier. You know, which is easier to make sure that your child eats good food, or just give in and let them have ice cream and you know, fast food and whatever it is that they want. It’s absolutely a question of which are you going to learn which are you going to put into practice. And I use the analogy regularly about a garden. And so, you know, if you’re going to empower your garden to grow, you need to turn the earth you need to plant your stuff in nice straight rows, you need to weed the weeds. Take those out, you need to water your garden. But you also need a little bit of fertilizer. So you need a little bit of poop to make that garden a really healthy productive garden. And that’s where we fall down. You need a little bit of poop. You don’t need truckloads of poop. You don’t need to fill your life with it.
Michael Hingson 15:01
So, essentially good poop. Yeah. So what’s, what’s an example of good poop?
Conrad Hall 15:10
Well, and it’s one that requires, you know, you and me to listen, and it comes up with kids all the time. So pap is to encourage your kids to do well, you know, to have them do the things that they’re supposed to do. Nagging is when you just, you’re just constantly after them. And the simple example is, you know, you’re encouraging your children to take responsibility. So one of their chores is to take the garbage out. You’re encouraged them to do it. You encourage them again to do it. And then at some point, your child lashes back and says, Would you just quit nagging me about the garbage? Well, there’s the learning opportunity. You know, sweetheart, I love you. I’m trying to encourage you to do what you’re supposed to do. But you haven’t done it. So yes, I am nagging you. And the nagging will stop when you take out the garbage
Michael Hingson 16:13
you got. And hopefully, hopefully, they learn, you know, you said it’s easy to do the bad stuff, and so on. So the question that comes to mind is, is it really harder to do the good stuff? Or is it only harder, because that’s the environment in which we live? In other words, if somebody truly grows up, recognizing and internalizing being accountable, then is it really hard for them to do things that address the issue of incorporating and bringing in more pep?
Conrad Hall 16:56
You are exactly right. You absolutely haven’t grown up in a violent, very negative family environment. It has throughout my life been easy to do, you know, to be criticizing people to be complaining about people to be even threatening and lying. And I have seen other kids. And I’ve seen a dynamic in their home. And I remember it from growing up, where their parents were consistently encouraging. And I remember it, because I remember thinking I’d really like to live here instead of living where I do live. So I remember those examples. And in the same way that I, in my teens, and in my 20s would just veer toward negative behaviors. Those friends of mine who have parents that are consistently encouraging them, and holding them accountable, and who are who are consistent about the rules to so what is a No, today is always enough. And what is a yesterday is always a yes. They just it never would occur to them to do the kinds of things I would do. And I can remember, throughout my teens, having friends who were upset and put off when I would start engaging in those negative behaviors.
Michael Hingson 18:43
So what did you do? Or maybe you didn’t do anything at the time?
Conrad Hall 18:49
Well, I would say most of what I did was retreat further into the negative behaviors. Almost as a way of saying, You know what, I can do this. And I don’t need you to tell me I’m wrong. You know, I have people at home telling me I’m wrong all the time. And it it was a big part of my life where I got into a situation where I would push people away before they would have an opportunity to reject me. Because I grew up in an environment where I was consistently told that I was unlovable that I wasn’t wanted around. And I allowed that to take root. And in my adult years I can remember seeing people would meet me and they would say positive stuff. And very often I would correct them and say yeah, you You just don’t know me very well. Because I had done so many negative things because I so readily engaged in negative behavior. And because for a lot of my life, I was filled with rage, not just anger, but rage. And having grown up in such a crap environment, to be honest. And I had it in mind that if people really knew who I was, they just naturally would not like me. But now I’m now 55. I actually had time of recording, my birthday was yesterday. So I’m now 35 years of age. Thank you. And now when I look back, I think, you know, the natural me, the kid. Everybody loved me, because I was happy. You know, it just enjoyed having fun. I just naturally think well of people. I’m pretty easy to get along with person. It wasn’t until I got into my teens and my early head all years that I was just a flat out jerk. And I was joining the military. I encourage anybody to do it, who that’s what they want to do. For me, it was a bad choice. Because it just was a place that allowed me to be angry. And, you know, kind of rewarded the results that would get.
Michael Hingson 21:52
Youmentioned that by the time you were 28, there had been a significant number of suicides and so on, did something happen when you were 28.
Conrad Hall 22:01
Actually, several weeks before I turned 28, I was involved in a car crash. I was in the military. I was going home to say goodbye to my parents. And I hadn’t spoken to them in five or six years. But I was going home to say goodbye because my unit was going to the former Republic of Yugoslavia. And I had no intention of coming back. Now that would be a very easy place to get involved in a fight and end up dead. So in the process of going home, I goofed on the roadway, and crashing my car at 84 kilometers an hour. And for several minutes was vital signs absent. So it’s now you know, almost 30 years later I can look back and say it’s kind of laughable. It isn’t anywhere near laughable. But it is odd that I had tried so many times to kill myself. And then the thing that convinced me that I wanted to live was ending up dead in a car crash.
Michael Hingson 23:28
Why did it change? Why did your attitude change?
Conrad Hall 23:35
Well, as strange as it may sound in that car crash I had a direct and personal experience with God, the Creator, the being that made all of this and I’ll tell you what, you know what? Meeting him is terrifying. It’s not fun. But maybe we’re Yeah. Yeah made clear. I always believed, you know, God was out there. But then when you come face to face with what I feel is evidence of his existence really changes your mind about throwing away this gift he has given you.
Michael Hingson 24:40
I wrote a book called Thunder dog the story of a blind man his guide dog in the triumph of trust, which was number one New York Times bestseller and is still published. And in that book, I tell specifically about my experience, hearing the voice of God because it did happen on September 11. We were very close to tower two when it began to collapse. And I was with someone who ran off. And I turned and started running away from the tower which needed to do just to survive, right. But I remember thinking to myself, God, I can’t believe that you got us out of the building, we come out of Tower One, I can’t believe he got us out of a building just to have fall on us. And I heard a voice it said, don’t worry about what you can’t control focus on running with Roselle, who is my guide dog. And the rest will take care of itself. And I knew it was the voice of God, I had always believed in God. And I believe that I’ve had many conversations with God, but never with a voice that was that clear and definitive. So I understand exactly what you’re saying. In my case, the voice wasn’t angry. It was just it was very clearly saying just keep going and do what you’re supposed to do. And it will be fine. And don’t worry about what you can’t control. So I think it is. I’m not surprised, or in any way put off by your comment. I think that it is something that all of us should do more of is listening, hear that voice or hear what there is to tell us we would be so much better off if we did.
Conrad Hall 26:23
Yes, I agree. I woke up in the car and could not breathe. Turns out my left lung had collapsed. And somebody from in front of the car or for what felt like in front of me said don’t worry. It’ll be okay. And then I passed out. And then at some point died. And I never really had the impression of anybody being angry with me. I kind of it’s more of an impression of I’m sorry, it took this much to get through to you.
Michael Hingson 27:11
But that was your choice.
Conrad Hall 27:14
Exactly. Yeah, even the car accident was my choice. I was driving home on a road that is locally known as snake road. And it follows the Niagara Escarpment, and it goes up and down the escarpment as well as back and forth along the escarpment. And I know better you don’t drive a road like that, at 80 kilometers an hour. Somewhere in the realm of 5055 miles an hour. And the place that I got into the accident, I didn’t realize where I was. And then I did because I saw a sign for hairpin turn. That is signed for 10 miles an hour, 20 kilometers an hour. And the last time I looked at the speedometer, I was doing 84 And I just I pulled my feet back off the pedals. I crossed my arms over my chest and bowed my head and said if I have to die, you know, I get it. Just please don’t let me go to hell. And I got an answer.
Michael Hingson 28:34
And you came out of it. And what did you do?
Conrad Hall 28:40
Well, in true human fashion, I tried to turn my back on it and say oh, it was nothing, you know, and go back to life in the military. God clearly had different ideas because in a few months, I was medically discharged. They’re saying you can no longer do the job. And I had to look around for something. And by the time I got out of the military I was my mindset was okay. I will start to listen. Clearly you have something to say? Clearly you have something you want me to do. And I will start to listen. And it was about that time that I also started making a shift away from being angry all the time away from pushing people away. And I started experimenting with letting folks into my life and you know, exploring new relationships. And I certainly had my ups and my downs, just like anybody. But I’m now a much happier and more fun to be around guy.
Michael Hingson 30:17
There you go. What kind of work did you get into after the military?
Conrad Hall 30:24
I came out and went into construction. Okay. My father was a carpenter. So I grew up with it. Probably by the time I was seven, six years of age, something like that. During summer break, I would be on construction sites, pulling nails. So you just hammer them back and then pull the nail and because my father was saving lumber to build a new house. And I figured, okay, that’s something I know how to do. I was still at a state where I wanted his approval. And I thought, Okay, I’ll do what he did. He will have to approve of that. Which didn’t work. But I enjoy carpentry, I enjoy woodworking. I really enjoy building things. And so building houses, putting additions on houses, I worked my way up to being a field engineer. I have no degree, never attended university. But worked my way up to being a field engineer. And then in 2007, that summer, I realized I was spending a lot of time at the edge of the building, looking down wondering if it would hurt when I hit the ground. And I just picked up one day and said that’s it. I’m done. I quit. And spent a few months looking around going, what do I do? What should I do? And a couple of folks suggested writing. And I discovered that the average annual income of a Canadian author is $12,500. And that was so attractive. That’s what I decided to do.
Michael Hingson 32:38
Why did they suggest writing?
Conrad Hall 32:42
I’ve been writing since I was a kid. Okay, I’m good with words. I actually know how to spell that’s a good thing, if you’re going to be an author helps. It does. And I have been published several times throughout my life, essays, you know, articles and magazines, that kind of thing. An Anthology of poetry that was published. So what I actually went into was copywriting. I got got involved with some folks, American writers and artists in Delray Beach, Florida. I went down and I listened to the, you know, I listen to them describe copywriting. And I’m sitting in this room with, like, 600 people. And I’m getting progressively more upset. And a couple of folks do what’s wrong. This is crazy. This is the kind of stuff I would do on weekends for friends, just to blow off steam and relax. They would ask me to do a an ad for them or to write a letter that they could send for a referral program or whatever. And I would just do this stuff because it was more fun than the carpentry. And I’ve been doing it for like 20 years for free.
Michael Hingson 34:12
You you missed out, I missed out. What kind of books are you writing now?
Conrad Hall 34:20
Well, the first six, were all about marketing, all about how to sell your stuff. I’ve had my own business since I was 19. And so there’s always even while I was in the military, I would go out and do little renovations on people’s houses and stuff. And then when I came out of the military and I got into high rise construction, I ran a construction business on the side with several crews working in different places. So I’ve always been able to get people to buy into a solution. I don’t quite agree with selling stuff. I think a salesperson a good salesperson is actually just helping you solve a need, you know, whether it’s you need a new car, or you need a new washing machine or, you know, you’re in the store and you need new clothes. A good salesperson just helps you, you know, solve the problem you’re trying to solve? Absolutely. And it just worked out. The first book that I wrote, was a commission by Bob Bly. And he asked me to write a book of all things. The first book I wrote, was a book about how to write books. And it turns out, you know, about 70 to 80% of that manuscript is actually how to sell your book. Because writing it is the easy part, selling it, getting people to see that you have presented them with a solution and getting them to buy into it. That’s, that’s the hard part that requires some effort. So the first six are all about marketing. And then number seven. And for the foreseeable future, these books are about personal development and self help, you know, about encountering a life event, realizing that you’re less than happy about it, and working your way back to getting happy.
Michael Hingson 36:42
In addition to doing the books, do you have any kind of a coaching program or a course? Are you thinking about doing anything like that, so that you not only write about it, but you you guide people directly?
Conrad Hall 36:55
I do I do coaching. And it’s, I’ll be honest, I don’t say yes to everybody. One of the first qualifiers is, you know, do you believe you are responsible for where you are? And if somebody answer’s no, I, you know, I am where I am. Because of this, that the other thing I recognize in myself, I, I do not yet have the strength to deal with that. So I need somebody to at least be at the stage where they’re willing to say, you know, I don’t know if I get it 100%. But I, I understand where you’re coming from, that I’m responsible for the choices I make. And then we can move on with coaching from there. I am looking at several things that I want to build as, sort of do it yourself courses. There, you know, 10 things for self image strengthening three keys to successful achievement. Things that I’ve learned along the way from people like Dr. Maxwell Maltz, who did, he published Psycho Cybernetics back in 1960. John Maxwell and everything that he has put together. Oh, actually, I should mention Jack Canfield, not only because he has been a terrific mentor, but because he has written the foreword to this first book in the series. So I explained to him that the series is actually inspired by his chicken soup series. And, you know, I’m inclined to call it chicken soup for the 21st century, which I think Jack is just okay with, I’m not sure he likes the idea, but he’s okay with it. And it was after I explained that to him, and I said, you know, would you write the foreword for this first book, and he did. So that was terrific. I’m very proud of that.
Michael Hingson 39:17
Well, our time is running short, darn it. So we need to do more of this in the future. And I definitely want to chat with you more and get more insights. But for now, how do people get a hold of you? How can people reach out to you?
Conrad Hall 39:33
Well, there are a couple of ways if you just if you’re, if you’re interested in something like coaching or counseling, you can send me an email. And it’s a nice easy email address. It’s my name email@example.com firstname.lastname@example.org. But maybe more importantly, you If you have a story of encountering a life event, getting unhappy and working your way back to being happy, I would love to hear it. And there’s a webpage. If you go to GettingHappySeries.com/shareyourstory, all one word, all lowercase. That takes you to a form where you can start sharing your story. And I would love to hear what it is, I’d love to read it. And when we get to that point where we’re doing that life event is one of the titles in the series. I’d be happy to come back and ask if we can use your story. Yeah, immortalize it.
Michael Hingson 40:51
Super, and it gives people a way to, to talk and express things. And as we all know, one of the most successful ways we have of moving forward is talking about what we are and who we are, and helping to use that to direct us as to where we want to go.
Conrad Hall 41:13
Michael Hingson 41:15
Well, Conrad, thank you incredibly much for being on unstoppable mindset. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. And as I said, I want to continue this discussion and hope that we’ll be okay with you.
Conrad Hall 41:30
Yes, sir. I’d love to. And I really, truly appreciate the opportunity to be here.
Michael Hingson 41:36
Well, you’ve been wonderful and and I’ve been extremely fascinated by listening to you. And I think there are a lot of ways that we, we, I won’t say always had similar experiences, but we have come to the same decisions and conclusions, which is the important part, I think and how we live our lives on what we do. Yes, sir. Absolutely. Well, everyone who’s listening, thank you again, for joining unstoppable mindset. We hope that you enjoyed it, I would invite you to go to Michael hinkson.com/podcast and subscribe. And also, wherever you’re hearing this podcast, please go give us a five star review. I appreciate it. I and I would hope that you will reach out to Conrad and learn more about his story. And if you have stories to tell, as an author myself, I am a speaker. I believe that it’s all about us telling stories. And I think everyone has a story to tell. So reach out to Conrad and tell him yours. So Conrad again, thanks very much for being here. Thank you, Michael.
UM Intro/Outro 42:41
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