Episode 20 – Indefatigable and Unstoppable with Tammy Gross

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Here is my second interview from the Podapalooza event last December 18. As you will see, my interview here with Tammy Gross is shorter than other podcast episodes due to a last-minute schedule change. Talk about the unexpected! Tammy was not originally slated to be my guest and could only stay for a half hour. Unfortunately, I didn’t know this until she said she had to leave. Hey, aren’t live interviews fun?
Tammy describes herself as indefatigable and I whole heartedly agree. You will hear about her life challenges, how she overcame them and how she has become an expert in helping entrepreneurs gain a foothold in the Hollywood entertainment scene. Tammy is engaging, inspiring and someone I think we should have on again. What do you think? Please email me at michaelhi@accessibe.com and give me your thoughts.

Some directories do not show full show notes. For the complete transcription please visit https://michaelhingson.com/podcast

About My Guest:
Produced, multi-award-winning, optioned screenwriter & best-selling author Tammy Gross offers a path to turn your story into a $77,000-minimum money machine with her exclusive WIN-WIN SCENARIO coaching intensive.

For over 10 years, Tammy Gross has been writing, editing and producing screenplays for writers of all skill levels. With Tammy’s help, A-Lister Shia LaBeouf’s long, disjointed autobiographical script was transformed into the compelling story that is now the award-winning film, Honeyboy.

After her own screenplay-turned-novel became a bestseller, she began working with authors to turn their novels and life stories into professional screenplays (& vice versa – turn screenplays into bestselling novels).

About the Host:
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.
Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.
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Transcription Notes
Michael Hingson  00:04
Hi, I’m Michael Hingson. And before we begin our podcast today, I have some really exciting news that I wanted to share. Something I never expected would happen. But here we are. Podcast magazine has just named Unstoppable Mindset as it’s February Editor’s Choice podcast for 2022. Is that cool or what? First of all, thanks very much to podcast magazine, for your faith in us and for all of your support. I discovered Podcast Magazine through a program that I entered in June of 2020, called Icon Maker, sponsored by Steve Olsher, who is also the creator of podcast magazine. I learned a lot from Steve. And I thank him for all that he has given me and all that I’m sure I learned from him in the future. But even more important than what I learned from Steve, is the support I have received from all of you. You are really the ones who made Podcast Magazines choice possible. Thank you very much for your support for your listening, for your comments, for your feedback, and all of the interests that you have expressed in unstoppable mindset. I look forward to continuing the podcast and trying to live up to the expectations that you have. I hope that you’ll continue to reach out. And again, thanks Podcast Magazine for your endorsement, and your support. As we now can say that we are the Podcast Magazine Editor’s Choice for February 2022. Thanks again. 
Michael Hingson  01:39
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.
Michael Hingson  03:02
Welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. We have a very interesting person today who clearly I would say is unstoppable. Do we say that about a lot of people but it’s true. I want you all to meet Tammy gross. Cami is a screenwriter. She’s an award winning screenwriter. She’s written books, and we’re gonna find out what else Tammy Welcome to unstoppable mindset.
Tammy Gross  03:27
Hi, there. I am so glad to be here. Thank you.
Michael Hingson  03:30
Well, gee, how did you get into screenwriting? Tell us a little bit about you? Well, just a
Tammy Gross  03:36
really brief story about how I got in screenwriting is that I was a singer. And I took a break from singing, and went on vacation and and went to a Pirate Museum learned about these women who really lived 300 years ago, and were pirates. And I couldn’t believe that nobody had ever made a movie about them. And so I set off on a journey to do exactly that. And, and so I I went around the world and research and figured out everything I could about this story. And then I realized I didn’t know how to write a screenplay to turn it into a movie and and I started getting into the screenwriting world and I’ve been actually editing screenplays for other people for over 12 Or about 12 years now. And along the way, I’ve written my own screenplays, won some awards and have had a couple of little things made and and one of them is being made into a movie right now.
Michael Hingson  04:28
Well, how did the pirate women screenplay go?
Tammy Gross  04:32
Oh, like everybody, like every screenplay is screenwriter and you have that thing that you really want to write and that’s why you become a screenwriter and it never gets done. But mine is actually done. The prequel to it is actually done. It’s actually a best selling book as well as a screenplay. It’s just a big budget so it’s not in the works yet.
Michael Hingson  04:51
What’s the book called?
Tammy Gross  04:53
It’s called the treasure galleons.
Michael Hingson  04:56
Whoo. Okay. And And like most pirates did all the women’s Say things like car and all that. Checking.
Tammy Gross  05:04
No, it’s actually a little bit more like Master and Commander, I guess you could say.
Michael Hingson  05:10
Well, you know, I’m if you’re gonna be a pirate, you got to talk like a pirate. So they say,
Tammy Gross  05:14
yeah, definitely. I’m not sure.
Michael Hingson  05:20
Well, so that’s pretty cool. So you say your book was a best selling book, which is and is a best selling book? Or is it still in printer?
Tammy Gross  05:29
It is, it was a best selling book. And it actually and has been in print. I think it’s out of print right now. But you could I think you could get it like on demand, you know, at Amazon. So it’s the treasure galleons. And it’s at Amazon. But it’s also it’s going to become a bestseller again, in February, I’m going to be doing a big campaign and working really hard to, to keep it going. You know, I’m learning I’m in that learning stage. You know, how to,
Michael Hingson  05:55
of how to do that. And that one is that the one that’s being made into a movie.
Tammy Gross  06:00
Now, the one that’s being made into a movie is more of a ghost story. It’s based on a true story, but it’s about a girl who, who thinks she’s seeing a ghost who wants her to solve her murder. And so it’s, it’s a little bit of a horror, but it’s really more like a psychological thriller.
Michael Hingson  06:16
Cool. I am hoping being the eternal optimist that she does solve the murder.
Tammy Gross  06:23
Yeah, well, I can. I can tell you this, I can tell you this. Okay, having talked about having like, an unstoppable mindset, there are policemen who got on the real murder. And it had been unsolved for 27 years, a month before I published the book version, they solved the actual murder. So that is really cool. In my fictionalized version, yes, of course, the the girl is able to solve the murder.
Michael Hingson  06:49
But they actually solved it, which is great.
Tammy Gross  06:53
Actually caught the guy who actually did it to the real victim,
Michael Hingson  06:56
did your book or researching your book stimulate part of that? Or did that have any effect?
Tammy Gross  07:03
I wish I could say it did. But no, it did. And I really based it very loosely on that, because I didn’t want to really hurt the family because I was it. You know, it was an unsolved murder. But there were people that were claiming that they could speak to her spirit, and that they could solve the murder. And of course, in 2728 years, they did that. So that’s what that’s what kind of prompted the idea of for the story.
Michael Hingson  07:27
Wow. But you continue to write screenplays and so on.
Tammy Gross  07:31
I do write screenplays and I now I’m working with entrepreneurs and helping them get their story straight. And, and, and get some grit, so that they can, so they can have the mindset to to realize that their story can make a big difference, even if they think it’s a small story.
Michael Hingson  07:50
Well, tell me about that. Yeah, well, I
Tammy Gross  07:53
had to I had to go through it myself. I had to go through a little bit of that, finding my grit myself and, and when 2020 hit my, my screenplay, editing business started to tank a bit for a couple of for several reasons. One being Google Analytics had changed and all of a sudden, I wasn’t getting people to me as much, I became sick and was in and out of the hospital with pancreas, pancreatitis, issues start started from a gallstone or something. And, and was dealing with that for quite a while. And then of course, then COVID hit everybody. And and I realized I was feeling very sorry for myself. So I had to, I had to pull myself out of it. And, and it was entrepreneurs who helped me it was people like Pete, Pete Vargas, and Russell Brunson and, and Tony Robbins, you know, all the all the names in the intro, entrepreneurial world, and I found a word for myself through them. And it was grit. I needed to build some grit and stop feeling sorry for myself and I even gave it you know, it’s basically an acronym, I guess, where you have to have gumption resilience and be indefatigable, which is a very good pirate word, indefatigable person and have tenacity. And so that’s exactly what I did for all of 2020. That was my word. And that’s, that really made me turn the corner and I came out of 2020. Totally different.
Michael Hingson  09:22
So, how did you? How did you get into a mindset to do all of it? I mean, obviously, you read what these people said, you listen to their words, and so on, but how did you then translate that to you?
Tammy Gross  09:37
Well, basically, by the next year, I realized, okay, I know what how I need to be thinking more, but now I need to do things I need to do what I’ve been learning. And so really, my word for 2021 has been doo doo doo doo, you know, take action. And, and so I’ve been following a lot of great advice, and I’ve been, you know, disturbed. and figuring out what doesn’t work and what does work. And it’s been, it’s been quite a journey, it’s been great because it’s made me self reliant, while I’m also, you know, reaching out for, for anybody who has a helping hand to help me step up, you know, so it’s been collaborative, and it’s been personal at the same time.
Michael Hingson  10:19
Well, of course, making it personal, tends to make us work harder, because we then take us more seriously. You know, I talk to a lot of people about disabilities and of course, blindness. And when I discover people who say how much they’ve learned, or they’ve even read my book, Thunder dog, and they’ve said, Well, we’ve learned so much. The issue, though, is, it’s easy to say that, but do you truly emotionally buy into it? So for example, I talk a lot about the fact that blindness isn’t the problem, societal attitudes are the problem, and blind people can do whatever they choose to. And the reality is that blindness doesn’t need to be the barrier that we face. But people say that, but they don’t buy into it. And that’s why it’s so important to make everything sort of personal to you if you’re going to accomplish it.
Tammy Gross  11:15
Oh, absolutely. That that is, that’s a great way of putting it and I would never say that I’m disabled. But there was a time when I was in the hospital when I thought I might be in hospital, like for the rest of my life, and it might might be a short life. And, and so there was an attitude that was developing, even before that, and, and I had severe depression. And it wasn’t until I got some help with that, that, you know, I realized, it’s me, it’s me, it’s not everybody else. It’s me. And I and I have work to do. And so you’re right, the personal is, it’s just everything.
Michael Hingson  11:51
It’s unfortunate that we use this word disability, mainly because I’m, well, first of all, I don’t know what other word to use things like differently abled don’t work. So, you know, we talk about words and so on. Disability, however, doesn’t need to be a lack of ability. It can just be a thing, where we haven’t made it a thing yet, we haven’t taken that leap. To really recognize that a person has a disability, it doesn’t mean that they don’t have ability, they’re just going to do things in a different way. It’s like diversity, diversity was supposed to be this inclusive thing for everyone. Diversity does very rarely include disabilities, we’ve warped the term and morphed it.
Tammy Gross  12:35
Yeah, yeah, in Hollywood to they’re, they’re actually trying very hard to, to make it something that is, is much more inclusive, and I’m proud of the people who are doing that it’s still hard, you know, it’s still being done. It’s, there’s still a lot of work to be do.
Michael Hingson  12:50
We don’t tend to see still a lot of disabilities, people with disabilities in Hollywood in major well roles or in major positions. And I know part of that has to do with the fact that people with disabilities haven’t been trained. They don’t. They’re starting to learn to be actors. I mean, we have Marlee Matlin and some others, but mostly, we don’t have people who know how to do it, although I think more learning it. But what we also don’t have are people in the industry, who are open and inclusive to the point where they will give people a chance. And most of the time, when you see somebody with a so called Disability in a movie, there’s not really an actor with a disability who’s playing that person.
Tammy Gross  13:41
Oh, absolutely. And the, like I said, the good news is, is that I think you’re going to be seeing things pretty soon that do have that, that, because I’ve just been in a lot of meetings with a with producers and directors who are very aware and who are doing everything they can to be much more inclusive on that. So hopefully, it’s gonna be a very exciting 2022, where we will be seeing a lot more, a lot more people who are trained, and who are playing somebody who may be in a wheelchair or is blind or deaf or whatever. But also, you know, they’re they’re playing that person sometimes as that with that disability and other times not even paying attention to to it at all, you know, so that’s kind of neat.
Michael Hingson  14:29
Yeah, but the reality is that there’s no reason why a blind person can’t play the President of the United States in a movie. It doesn’t have to be that they focus on blindness or that that has to be a blind president. And the time will come when hopefully that will happen, which will be great.
Tammy Gross  14:45
Yes, for sure. I agree. So how are you
Michael Hingson  14:49
doing the and what’s happening? How did you get into the whole business of helping entrepreneurs? What’s the program? Tell us all about that?
Tammy Gross  14:57
Well, I call it Wow, Hollywood, and it’s because because I have been an entrepreneur since 22,000, actually, officially, at least on the online, and because I was arranging music for churches all over the globe, and then I started, and then that kind of transition so that I was helping screenwriters, and I was editing for them. But I also I became such a format expert that a lot of people were turning to me, I’ve had a listers, like Shaila buff, and I’ve had newbies people who’ve never written anything. And so I realized that I needed to scale up. And I needed to become much more of an actual entrepreneur and not just somebody who’s helping other people. And you know, what, one on one for hours for dollars kind of thing. So that so I needed to step up. And then as I did, that’s when I learned, oh, wait a minute, so do all these other people I work with, and all the people who’ve helped me can really benefit from telling their story better and more often and in a bigger way.
Michael Hingson  15:56
So is that mainly been Hollywood related or in general,
Tammy Gross  16:01
it’s just been in general. In fact, it’s been people just taking their transformation story, their their signature story, and how they got to where they are as an entrepreneur, and turning that into a story that can be told in in many, many different ways. And that can reach more people.
Michael Hingson  16:17
Can you tell us a couple stories about people who have been successful because of what you’ve done? And what happened?
Tammy Gross  16:22
Well, it’s really it’s it? Well, I’m at the beginning of my thing, so I can tell you people who I’ve helped in the past, and who, who, because of my help, they were able to move forward. Shyla buff is actually an interesting example. He, he came to me needed some, some editing and a little bit of story help with a story that had a really weird name to it. And it was basically his own life story, talking about his parents. And when I was done with it, I was able to help him get it so that I mean, he had connections, he didn’t need my he didn’t need my help with connections, and he didn’t need to be perfect, but the story was kind of a mess. And, and I’m like, You need to chop off the whole last half, you just need to chop off the whole last half, you need to concentrate on this, that this that. And within a couple of years, he came out with honey boy where he played his own father. And he kept a concentrated on his life, and how it related to his father, his mother wasn’t really a part of it, because that’s exactly the story that he needed to tell. And so that you can go and watch honey, boy, it’s great. And I feel so proud that he took some of my advice, or actually all of my advice. Did he give you credit? No. You know, he paid me and it was off the books typing, you know, is considered in India at the time. Yeah, okay. Exactly. But I can credit myself because I know what I did.
Michael Hingson  17:51
Well, yeah. And, you know, the fact is that you know, what you did, and you use that to help build you, which is a family.
Tammy Gross  18:00
Yeah. And I’ve seen others that have gone on, you know, using just some of my basic stuff, and and they’ve just gone on to start having a career, getting their movies made and feeling much more confident in all their writing as a screenwriter.
Michael Hingson  18:15
Well, that’s, that’s cool. Do you find it there are a lot of people in the Hollywood world, who, when you really dig down, don’t have a lot of confidence. And they, they may be successful, but they like to boss people around or they just do what they do. But they don’t really have the competence that they should have that would make them a whole lot better at what they do or better individuals,
Tammy Gross  18:40
the people who are kind of embedded I guess, you embedded you would say that they are Hollywood insiders. I don’t see that that often. Until you get really one on one with them. And they can be very nice, very humble. And then when you work with them, you might have a different a different, you know, vibe from them. But people who are getting into it are all like they’re Yeah, they’re they they think that they just don’t have anything to offer at all. Well, well, there might be a few major egos. And they’re the ones who really shoot themselves in the foot, you know, because they think that everything they write is gold, and it isn’t.
Michael Hingson  19:22
Well, we all have to start somewhere. Exactly. I remember. Now, it has to be something like well, it would have been about 1983 or 84. Yeah, be 1983 I think so that would be what 38 years ago. I was selling a product for a company that was then later bought by Xerox was a high end brand new optical character recognition technology and at the time, was the only machine that would read any number of types. on the same page, I met him by Ray Kurzweil. And he had two versions up at the reading machine for the blind, which is the first machine he developed, but then the data entry machine and the intent was that anyone could use it to scan high volume of material to put it into electronic form for whatever purpose. And one day, we got a call from a reasonably unknown guy. You’ve never heard of him, I’m sure Francis Ford Coppola who’s whose Godfather I’ve watched several times anyway. And he said, I would like to explore using your machine to read scripts and then take the data electronically and format it or read books or read data and format it into scripts. So I got to meet him. What a What a nice guy, and we met at zoetrope studios, it was just before he moved up to Rutherford and went to the winery and started the winery. But I found him to be a person who is clearly very competent. Actually, the first time I met him, it was like three in the afternoon and he was just getting up and having breakfast. I went off typical Hollywood, they sleep late. But then I did meet him also up at at the at the winery, and I found him to be just a wonderful person. And wish we had been able to spend more time together. But you know, everybody’s busy. And he had other things. We were just the sales guy. But he bought a product. So it’s okay.
Tammy Gross  21:27
Oh, yeah, definitely. Oh, that’s great.
Michael Hingson  21:32
But But Hollywood is, is an interesting place. And I do hope that, that people truly will find that there is a lot of value and more authenticity and using actual, in our case, persons with disabilities to play parts, whether it’s really playing a disabled person or person with a disability or not. There’s no reason not to expand horizons like that.
Tammy Gross  21:57
Right? Exactly. And, and things will be changing, like I said, and, and there’s already like kind of a movement, they’re calling it New Hollywood, to change, you know, get rid of some of the bad and bring in more of the good to all of Hollywood. And it’s great to it’s it would it, this is a great time to be a part of that.
Michael Hingson  22:18
That sounds really exciting. I’m looking forward to seeing how it goes. Well tell me more about the program and so on with what you’re doing. So you’re you’re basically coaching people, do you have set a formal process? How do people find you, you know, how do they even know you exist? All that stuff?
Tammy Gross  22:37
Well, I’ll just give this to you. Right now it’s a if you go to scriptpreneur.com. And for some reason, the S doesn’t work. So it’s http, colon, slash slash, scriptpreneur. So script S C R I P T, preneur, P R E N E U R.com. You can book a time with me and we can talk about it. But also, you can email me at Tammy@scriptpreneur.com. And, and I’m still getting a website together on the Wow, Hollywood but while hollywood.com is up and running, it’s just you’ll see it’s sort of improv process. And, and what it is is is that basically I can help people at whatever stage they’re at, of wanting to tell their story, however big they want to get to, you know, I will encourage them to go big. And, and go all the way from getting your script for your speaking. So not a screenplay, but a script so that you can speak in like two minutes, or maybe in 40 minutes, or maybe in two hours, whatever time you need on stage to tell your story. That is your transformation story. That is part of how you help other people. So that’s how it works for, for entrepreneurs, as we all know, since 2020, you know, screen I mean screen. Being on screen is part of the whole speaking world now, and you kind of can’t get away from it. And then from there, I help people write a screenplay. It’s very, you know, specific kind of story format, and turn that into a book from that into a best seller win awards as you’re going along. And then I can introduce you to some producers, people who will, you know, look at it, and we’ll take it seriously now that it’s been through all of this, you know, vetting and has won some awards, as well as helping you get a trailer made, you know, so I can take you all the way from idea all the way to getting a sizzle reel, as they call it but get basically a trailer of your story.
Michael Hingson  24:35
Have you so what have you done with with entrepreneurs outside of Hollywood?
Tammy Gross  24:41
Yeah, so this is all this. This is where I met the beginning stage of helping people who are completely outside the Hollywood loop. And, and I’m, I’m working to become a connector to the point where by mid 2022 I plan to have a full network where entrepreneurs can find writers writers can find work, and they can, you know, marry their, their amazing skills and abilities and, and, and can move forward that way they can move forward with me where I keep putting them together with people along that path. There’s lots of different ways.
Michael Hingson  25:21
And that’s where well, Hollywood comes in.
Tammy Gross  25:25
Yep. Oh hollywood.com
Michael Hingson  25:27
Yep. I am of the opinion that most everyone really has a story to tell them people ask me often. What about writing a book? It’s, it’s gotta be hard and so on? And the answer is, it’s only as hard as you make it. Yes, we all do need help. But everyone has a story that they can tell. And I wish more people would tell the story. And people ask me a lot about speaking because I’ve been speaking now for 20 years ever since escaping from the World Trade Center on September 11. And I, I began doing it actually, my first speaking opportunity came two weeks after September 11. It was on the 18th, the 25th, the 26th. It was Wednesday. And I had been called like the week before by a pastor who said we’re putting together a service for people in New Jersey, to recognize the people in New Jersey that we lost because we were living in New Jersey at the time. And he said, would you come and speak. I’ve done some church things and so on, but never at all regarded myself as a public speaker. But I said sure. And then I made the mistake of asking him how many people are going to probably be at the service because the church knows how many people go to church services in the middle of the weekend. He said, we expect between five and 6000 I went oh cool, didn’t bother me a bit, you know, and that was the kind of my first clue. So I went and did that and it was it was actually a wonderful time and it was a good time of remembrance where a lot of people got to share Lisa beamer whose husband Todd was the guy from flight 93 She was there and and Lisa is not an animal lover, but she and my guide dog Roselle, the the dog in the picture behind me here. She and Roselle hit it off which surprised her. And Roselle and she were were actually together on some other things. We were on a Larry King broadcast together. And they they got to commiserate and they have a thing for each other, which was really great. But the bottom line is it really is all about telling a story. And obviously
Tammy Gross  27:41
incredible. You have a very why ignores a movie yet?
Michael Hingson  27:45
Well, I you know I’m what I actually want to talk with you about that we’ve been working on it. I’m working with some people who approached me from the Christian community community and they want to make it into a movie but they haven’t had a lot of success or, or whatever with it. I’m what I want to get you in touch with them and see if we can move this forward. But it should be now my agent who helped us write thunder dog. There were two of us who wrote to Susie Florrie who’s a writer, contacted me about another book and decided she wanted to help me write the book, her agent who else became my agent ship McGregor. So Chip said that when they make it into a movie, he wants Brad Pitt to play him. Yeah, it’s gonna be such a major part, right? He wants Brad Pitt to play him. And I said, that’s fine. I’ll vote for that. But but it should be a movie and I would like to see it happen. I think there’s a story to tell because it’s not really about the World Trade Center. It’s about growing up blind. And how I got to the World Trade Center. That is the whole point of the story of learning to be unstoppable. Learning to establish that I could do whatever I chose to do. And there’s a lot behind that. So if you haven’t read thunder Doc, I hope you’ll go find it. Oh, definitely. And then we’re gonna talk about we’d love to talk about that. But, you know, it sounds like you have a story that ought to be told. And it’s a story in progress. But SOS keep in mind, but you should, you should work on yours.
Tammy Gross  29:16
That’s true. That’s actually that is that’s a 2022 goal of mine. Because you know, my my word for 2021 was do and my word for 2022 is B and I’m being exactly what it is that that I have been working toward becoming. And whether I fully reach things or not, I am being it. So that is definitely a big part of of the goal. For 2022
Michael Hingson  29:43
you can test out your screenwriting skills for your own. Exactly. Yeah. What I would really appreciate is you exploring Let’s do more of this and find more things to talk about. I would like to have you back on unstoppable mindset. So if anyone want to talk about this podcast, feel free to email me It’s MichaelHi M I C H A E L H I at accessiBe A C C E S S I B E.com says to me is a company that makes products that help the internet become accessible and inclusive to all it’s a long story. It’s also fun to tell feel free to write. Let us know what you think. And Tammy, I want to thank you again for being on the stoppable mindset and hopefully we will get to do this again really soon.
Tammy Gross  30:32
I look forward to it. This has been wonderful. So
Michael Hingson  30:35
it has been fun.
Tammy Gross  30:38
Thank you,
Michael Hingson  30:39
thank you
Michael Hingson  30:49
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

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