Episode 197 – Unstoppable Coach and Business Development Expert with Derek Healy

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Derek Healy was born in Ireland where he grew up, went to school and, as he would point out, learned a lot about life. After college he entered the world of finance by selling credit card serves for Bank Of America in Ireland. He honestly talks about his mindset and inner attitudes which, as you will hear, were not so good for some time. He later sold other financial products.

After the world financial collapse, as he calls it, of 2008 he traveled around Europe for a bit until he finally decided to make a bold move in 2010. Derek moved to Australia where his brother was living. Again, he worked in finance.

Now, he owns his own businesses and has started the hummingbird sales academy. He teaches not only sales, but he also teaches mental attitudes and he shows/leads his clients and students by example to develop better mindsets and life perceptions. Derek also is the creator of the S.T.O.I.C code, a transformative framework, empowering individuals and entrepreneurs, to achieve unparalleled success. You will get to learn all about both the academy and this innovative code by the time our time ends.

By any standard, Derek is unstoppable, and he will tell you why this is so. My time with Derek flew by, for me, surprisingly fast. I hope you will treasure Derek’s words and lessons as much as I.

About the Guest:

Derek Healy is a business development expert, investor, speaking and coach.

Derek is an Irish Australian immigrant, who has travelled the world trying to find his purpose,

He is the founder of the hummingbird sales academy and creator of the S.T.O.I.C code, a transformative framework, empowering individuals and entrepreneurs, to achieve unparalleled success. He is involved in many exciting start ups and is soon to be wed.

Derek philosophy centres around core values of integrity, empathy, neuroscience, stoicism and a commitment to lifelong learning. His message if infused with inspiring stories, positivity, gratitude and overcoming adversity

Ways to connect with Derek:

Instagram: d_real_derekhealy
Website: hummingbirdsalesacademy.com

About the Host:
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.

Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.


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Transcription Notes

**Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit
to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.

**Michael Hingson ** 01:20
Well, hello, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to chat with Derek Healy. Derek has an interesting story to tell a wicked sense of humor. But if we were to really talk about there, he’s a business development expert, investor, speaker and coach, my gosh, yeah. But you know, I don’t know what he does in his spare time. We’re really glad to have him though to be with us today. He’s got I know a lot of interesting and relevant things to talk about. So we’re gonna get to all of it. So let me just say, Derek, welcome to unstoppable mindset. How are you?

**Derek Healy ** 01:57
I am wonderful, Michael. And thank you very much. What a warm introduction. And I really appreciate your time looking forward to having a conversation. Me

**Michael Hingson ** 02:06
to will tell me a little bit about maybe the early. Derek, let’s start out and get the early part out of the way so we can find out all your early secrets. Absolutely.

**Derek Healy ** 02:15
Well, I’ll try and keep this as clean as possible. I know that I want to keep this kid friendly. So I will. What Irish, Irish originally, I’m not you can I’m sure you can hear that in the accent. I’ve been over here in Australia for 1314 years. And as the locks are fading, it seems the accent is getting slightly, slightly stronger again. But started off in Ireland. Relative relatively simple Irish upbringing, surrounded by sport, surrounded by humor, surrounded by bad weather. And then obviously, a pint or two in between. And it brought me over to this wonderful land traveled all over the world. Of course, like most Irish, like most Irish, we invade many countries, but we do it with a sleeping bag and a lunchbox.

**Michael Hingson ** 03:08
Did the bad weather get better when you had a pint? Say again? Say again? Did the bad weather get better when you had a pint?

**Derek Healy ** 03:17
Well, I think I honestly think that’s nearly Irish. The Irish are known for the weather, and they’re known for their drink. And I think if it weren’t disappeared, Ireland would disappear. They come hand in hand. It’s a package deal. So yeah, it’s a package deal. But one of my first football teams is down that down the country football teams. And our dressing room was in the back of a pub. It was the old storehouse of a pub. So that’s how integrated alcohol and into the Irish community if you like,

**Michael Hingson ** 03:51
understand, I’ve been to Ireland. I’ve only been once but I was there for about 12 days. As I recall, we were promoting my book vendor dog. And so I was invited over by the Irish guide dog school. And so we did a number of speeches that they had planned for us thoroughly enjoyed the time love the music, of course. Needless to say, as we talked about earlier on the way over on our flight, I was tuning around the various airplane music channels and I heard this Irish music and I was listening to it and heard it was a group called the Mary plough boys. And I learned about them they performed at the castle rockin we were in Dublin a bit and I was hoping to go hear them but unfortunately the one night we had available they weren’t performing that that night so I didn’t get to go hear them so I have to contend myself with my CDs.

**Derek Healy ** 04:45
There you go. What I’m sure that it the door is not closed, the door is not closed, it will be open and they will present themselves soon enough I presume. One

**Michael Hingson ** 04:55
way or another we will definitely work it out. So II. So you you were in Ireland, Ireland for a long time. When did you leave Ireland? I

**Derek Healy ** 05:05
left Ireland. It. It must have been around it actually it was it was around the global financial crisis, the global financial crisis. And that hit everyone, as you know. And it’s interesting. When I look back at it the similarities to now, if you like, from an economic standpoint, and especially in Australia, right now, there’s a lot of how would you say, there’s a lot of talk in the corridors about how bad things are. And if I think back in Ireland, I don’t even think the global financial crisis was as bad for everyone. I think it was more. Everyone was saying it. So people would just get on board and say, yeah, things really are bad. Like, so

**Michael Hingson ** 05:46
what mindset what year was that?

**Derek Healy ** 05:48
That was 2008 to 2010. So we were we were in Ireland, and the usual stuff, a lot of employers would make their would use that, that opportunity to get rid of a lot of people called Cass. But then obviously, at the same time, a lot of those people would increase the crisis price of living. So things were different things were relatively hard on the surface for a lot of Irish people. But to be honest with you, that that year, that two years that are all that was happening, myself and my friends have never traveled as much we traveled all over Europe. Again, none of us were working. But we found a way to do it. So as you can sort of adjust to the way of life even though things are tough. You actually can do more, when you have less than when you have more than you’re doing appreciate us.

**Michael Hingson ** 06:36
Yeah. There. There are, of course, lots of hostels and other things around Europe that made it a little bit easier for people who didn’t have a lot of money to be able to travel hostels,

**Derek Healy ** 06:46
and we weren’t quite one thing about the Irish, we’re able to talk our way into trouble and out of it at the same time, there you go. So there was times that we were over there traveling Europe, we weren’t going to stay, we had no money, myself and a friend of mine, we were nearly going to have to sleep at a train station in Romania somewhere. And then we found these two ladies. And they said right, you can come back with us. And they they let us stay with them for a while like it was it was just an adventure. It was beautiful. But all all all good things must come to an end. So I needed to get my foot down and start earning some money, build a bit of a life. And here Australia opened the opportunity for me. How did

**Michael Hingson ** 07:24
that happen? So what brought you to Australia? What made that all happen?

**Derek Healy ** 07:28
It’s interesting. I’ve never really been in my younger years, I was never really a planner. Like I never looked at a book and said, I’m interested in going here, here, here, here here. I suppose if I if I take a back step, I think one of the worst things that you can have is almost talent. Because if you’re talented, it doesn’t push you to the next level, you sort of rest on your laurels a bit. And that was the same with all my travel adventures. I’ve traveled all over the world. And it was never worth planning. It was always worth let’s see where this takes me. And with Australia was much the same. I had a brother out here. And he was doing quite well. That was all the invitation I needed. And I said I wasn’t going out necessarily to be with him. But I said, Australia that will do. It was like Tron it was like throwing a dart at a dartboard. And I said, Australia, but I could have very well ended up in Arizona or Nevada, or even California and I could be having this live with you if the if the if the star is aligned differently. But I’m in Australia,

**Michael Hingson ** 08:26
what were you doing before you encountered the world financial crisis in 2008? Well,

**Derek Healy ** 08:34
funnily enough, I was in the financial industry. So I was with my first ever, how would you say a job out of college was with Bank of America, which was an amazing learning experience water company to work for, I have to say, I don’t know what it’s like now. But when I was there in Ireland, it was an amazing adventure. Sober was always corporate sales, whether it be property recruitment, or even the financial side of things.

**Michael Hingson ** 09:04
Right. Right.

**Derek Healy ** 09:05
So a good solid background in corporate selling, if you like, How long were you there? In Bank of America. It was my fault. That was my first. That was my first real job if you like, and it was I accom I had just left college. And through a number of bad decisions in college, I had my mind almost went snap and that was from drug or alcohol or just over enjoyment. So about three or four years of just over enjoying oneself. My mind had gone snap so I was suffering from a little bit of depression. And my mother, I remember my mother had promised the interview and I was driving across country. This is only about 20 years old. 1920 years old. I was driving across country 7am Ice called winter’s morning in Ireland. And I pulled up I didn’t even know what Bank of America was I pulled up to this complex housing nearly 1000 people. And it was quite intimidating. But look before it before I was about to leave the car I was there, I looked back at her looking for some sympathy, please don’t make me come in here, I got the raise of an Irish mother’s hand was like, Get get in there. So I went. So I went, I went in, had initial training with the guys. It was my first you’re in this environment, you’re coming from college and Bank of America is very corporate, you’ve got the suit, you’ve got the tie, you’ve got all of that. So I learned from that, even dressing up. It’s like getting into it getting ready for a football game, you get in you get involved, you get ready. And it’s like gore time. So even that was a beautiful learning experience. For me just even entering that building for the first time. What year was that? That would have been maybe 2004 2005 something. So

**Michael Hingson ** 11:03
yeah, I understand exactly what you’re saying it’s a whole different environment, then we’re, you know, we tend to be used to when we’re students, and suddenly you’re, you’re thrown into this whole different thing that unfortunately, college doesn’t help prepare you for necessarily.

**Derek Healy ** 11:22
No, it doesn’t. It doesn’t, it doesn’t. And it’s it’s folly. If you look at leadership’s the beauty of mentorship or leadership is you’re being mentored or you’re being led by people that have done it before. And they can give you real life examples of what to look out for and what to expect. And perhaps the people in certain universities, they’re training you for something that isn’t real, if that makes sense in training you from from books or from other people’s experiences, and they’re not able to articulate it or paint the picture correctly. And that, that opens up a lot of uncertainty when people enter the working world. So yeah, it is quite a big culture shock. I’m yet to find someone actually, that can say that college or university prepared them for the real world, I’m yet to meet someone, I’m not sure if you can actually introduce me to someone that can that can attest that. Well, I

**Michael Hingson ** 12:22
think something a little different. I think with light here, I went to the University of California at Irvine, which is a research institution, it was a it was a new campus at the time when I went there, but one of the things that generally, we were told was that the junior college or community colleges, and even the Cal State system, which were four year colleges tended to be much more teaching oriented, and I think tended to probably have more people who were a little bit closer to what you would find in a lot of industry and so on. And some of the people came from there, as opposed to most people at the universities, and it isn’t a criticism, it’s a different world. But most people from the universities are in a much more theoretical world, or maybe in a scientific environment experimental but still, you’re right. They don’t come from an environment where they think about teaching people to be prepared with for what comes outside of the university, and all those other kinds of things.

**Derek Healy ** 13:40
And I think, again, I’m not sure of the university systems right now. But there’s a lot of talk about, like safe places, if you like or even even censoring the way people talk or the way people debate. And I think debate is such a beautiful, beautiful thing. And in the years that I’ve worked 20 years in the corporate space, and I’ve trained and mentored hundreds of people. But the one thing I’ve learned with the people that are unsuccessful is the people that are unable to deal with adversity, and they’re unable to bounce back from disappointment, or they’re unwilling to push themselves into uncomfortable states situations and stay there. That’s the difference between success and failure. I think and, unfortunately, what seems to me the trend is universities are sheltering people specifically from those areas of growth.

**Michael Hingson ** 14:36
And even there’s probably some merit to that. Yeah.

**Derek Healy ** 14:40
Which is, so it’ll be interesting to see. It’s all a big experiment. It’s all a big game. So we’ll see in 1015 years, what the what the results are,

**Michael Hingson ** 14:48
and whether anyone makes a real change. Or the other side of it is the universities do what they do and that’s okay. For one one group of people, but still I hear what you We’re saying that If college is really supposed to prepare us for life, then there are certainly other things that need to be brought into the curriculum somehow

**Derek Healy ** 15:09
into it. That’s so true. That’s so true. But another thing actually did Jesus on the university side of things. In Ireland, we’ve got relatively free education system, which is an amazing that we are doing that because education is so so important. But the problem with that is it becomes it, whether it be an industry or not. The problem with that is, when you’re unsure of what to do, you’re nearly pushed towards University. So even when a lot of my friends were going to university, no one knew what they wanted to do, and very few are doing what they went to university for. But it seems like it’s like the next logical step to go towards. And that’s not always right, either. It’s more following. I don’t think university should be going where you don’t know what you want to do, you should you should, you should need to have a vision you should need to have because as we know, if you make a decision, whether it be right or wrong, at least you’ve made a decision. So when you make a bad decision, you can recollect and then turn that into a good decision. And that’s even a learning process. But if you’re just literally going to university, because everyone else is I don’t think that’s necessarily your decision. And therefore I don’t think the results can be achieved.

**Michael Hingson ** 16:21
I think, I think there are too many people probably who, putting it in quotes, go to find themselves. And that’s unfortunate if they really feel that they have to do that. They haven’t been prepared or maybe haven’t gotten what they need from their parents. And I will say there are some who do find themselves. But there are a lot of people who still come out with with a lot of challenges. And it’s very unfortunate that it isn’t just the academic knowledge, I would like to see people get from college university, but rather some of the other life knowledge that people could bring. And I wish there were more of that. I think you’re right.

**Derek Healy ** 17:03
I think so too. I think so. But the problem is, though, Michael, if you are lost, you might, you’re going to find yourself. But sometimes someone might find you and then you are literally, they’ll find you before you find yourself and then you just become their train of thoughts. We’re all programmed at the end of the day, but we need to make sure the programming is correct. And it’s in our best interest.

**Michael Hingson ** 17:26
I know that when I went to university, I wanted to be a teacher, I always wanted to teach, I wanted to do something in the science world. But the other side of all of this discussion is that something happened along the way that caused me to need to shift well not need to but shift exactly what I was doing instead of going toward teaching and I had a secondary teaching credential. But I had been offered an opportunity to work to help make a new piece of technology available to blind people. And I was hired to coordinate a project for 18 months where literally, we put product around the country for people to use. So I was the person who would literally live out of suitcases in hotels for 18 months writing curriculum, writing procedures, teaching people to use the technology and eventually writing a final report. And I suppose you could say that as a result of that like writing training curriculum, I really did start to teach, although it was a little different than what I thought. And then it’s and then I went to work for that same company. And after about eight months, I instead of doing the kind of work that I had been doing, was told that I had to be laid off because I wasn’t a revenue producer, unless I was willing to go into sales. And what I what I learned, so you’ll appreciate this. What I learned though, I took a Dale Carnegie sales course, and what I learned and still believe absolutely firmly today that the best real salespeople are teachers. You’re teaching people about your product, you don’t you, you can’t force somebody to buy unless they really want to, and you might be able to break down their will. But that isn’t the best way to sell. The best way to sell is to teach advice and counsel. And when you do that, it will reward you in so many ways. And I saw so many examples of that over time. So I ended up teaching anyway.

**Derek Healy ** 19:30
That was Wow. Wow. And you hit the nail on the head the best. When I went into leadership first similar story it was it forced me I was always able to do bring in generate revenue. But when I had to teach people how to generate revenue, it made me a better revenue generator. Yep. Because you need to articulate in a different way you need to influence the people that you’re surrounded by. It’s a different cell if you like it But yeah, Michael, I hit the data, you are in sales. In the end, you are in sales. You so there you go. Well,

**Michael Hingson ** 20:07
the other. The other side of it is that the more you teach people, and you leave it open for them to be able to ask questions and explore with you, the more you’re forced to learn, because invariably, they’re going to ask you questions you hadn’t thought of Exactly. Which is so much fun. And I learned early on when I was getting my teaching credential, that when people ask you questions that you don’t know the answer to, don’t try to fake them out. Be honest, be honest answer. I don’t know. And then go find the answer. I had that happen to me when I was teaching a freshman algebra class, and there was an eighth grader who was accelerated and he was in the class. And he asked the question, I don’t even remember what it was. But it was a simple question. I just couldn’t think of the answer. And I thought for a second, I said, you know, Marty, I don’t know. But I’m gonna go find out and we will get the answer all up on the board tomorrow, and you’re gonna write it on the blackboard? Well, when I came in, and he came in, he said, Mr. Hanson, I got the answer. I said, I do too. Let’s compare notes. And we did. And he wrote it up on the board. And, and 10 years later, I met him at a fair, and his, now he wasn’t an eighth grader anymore. He had this deep bass voice. And he said, Hey, Mr. Harrison, do you know me? And I said, No, I’m Marty, that guy with the question. 810 years ago, this just amazing. But isn’t that amazing? It’s such a lesson.

**Derek Healy ** 21:42
Wow, that that’s it’s amazing. The things that make such a big difference is small things that, yeah, it’s the small things, but it makes a big difference.

**Michael Hingson ** 21:51
They make such a big difference. And after I did that, and told him, I didn’t know my master teacher, who was also the football coach for the high school came up and Mr. Redmond said, you know, you told him Do you didn’t know. And that was the best thing you could do. Because if you tried to blow smoke, they would have caught you. They would never have respect for you, you’re gonna have their respect from now on. And you know, that was so true. And it’s the only way to do it.

**Derek Healy ** 22:17
Absolutely. But I think apart from the fact that you went on the journey with him to find the answer, and you, you didn’t, as you said, try and blow smoke, but you’re shown vulnerability. And by showing some sort of vulnerability, we can nearly make a connection to that. Even it was funny, I was in a meeting there recently with a another friend, a business partner of mine, if you like, and we bought at the meeting. And I came in, had the meeting. And in my opinion, everything was perfect. Like the appearance was perfect. The way I spoke, nothing was out a turn, every answer was given perfectly coherently, etc. And my friend, his body language was a little bit off, he was slightly slumped. He wasn’t looking at the person I was looking dead in the eyes. He was when I observed what he was doing. It didn’t look perfect. But before the end of the meeting, the two guys that were sitting across the room, the question came up like what what’s your thoughts? The guys directed to my friend? And they said, I’m feeling exactly he’s, it’s like he’s inside my mind. They totally resonated with him. And I had to assess it. At the end of it. I was there. I was perfect in that meeting. Why were they why did they resonate with my friend who wasn’t perfect, and they resonated with it, that didn’t resonate with me. And I assessed it was that the guys we were talking to Warren perfect. And the fact that I was trying to be perfect, it not annuity alienated them. And they connected on an emotional level with my friend because he wasn’t trying to be perfect. Nothing about him was perfect, but they resonated better with them. So sometimes, when we try to be that perfect individual, it’s almost create a suspicion to the counterpart. And Shawn vulnerability is more human.

**Michael Hingson ** 24:08
And it shows you for what you really are not trying to be something that you’re not necessarily at all. I when I speak. I love to speak in person when I can, I will speak virtually, but when I speak in person, I get to hear the audience. And I know there there are a lot of people who say, Well, you can’t see the audience. I don’t need see the audience. I can hear the audience. And one of the things that I have learned to do when I speak is to put different phrases or different things in sometimes a joke, sometimes just a comment, or sometimes a question that I want people to just somehow respond to. And I listened for the reactions and that has taught me over the years and now tells me how well I’m doing really connecting with the audience. And if I decide that I’m not really connecting, I will change something to connect, because I want to be with them. And I want them to be with me. I believe that as a speaker, I never talk to an audience, I talk with an audience. And it has to be that way, for the best speeches. And so I don’t read speeches I customize. And sometimes I’ve had to do it as I go, I’ve got great stories about that. But the bottom line is that it’s all about connecting. And when you can connect, it makes a whole huge difference.

**Derek Healy ** 25:36
That’s amazing. So you’re putting out little feelers if you like, just get the energy from the audience. And you, you can almost gauge that what type of audience you are going to be speaking to just by the prompts that you put out, if you’re like, oh,

**Michael Hingson ** 25:51
absolutely can Yes, that’s it. Now, having said that, they’re all going to try to fool me from now on, but nevertheless, you know,

**Derek Healy ** 26:00
the, I recently heard a story, something about I can’t remember that term, but it’s you may have even heard of us. It was many, about 100 years ago, there used to be a horse, and it was a job as a German trainer, and he had a horse. And he used to go around to fairs. And the whole thing was that he claimed that the horse could speak could understand language. So he used to bring the horse into the fair, and they’d be surrounded by people. And then he would, he would get the horse to spell out certain names, certain words. So he’d asked the question to the audience. And the question could be, what color is this apple, and then the horse would go over and eat spell out red apple, like going over to the thing, he was able to do multiplication tables, he was able to do division. He was it was world famous this horse. So then a couple of scientists came over and they were they’re trying to find obviously, some holes in the story. And they wanted to see if it was, if the horse could actually do that. So they went to the guy, they got the guy out of the room, so that they thought that was it. They whispered to the horse, what they need, what they need, what they go to multiply seven by seven as an example. And all the stadium was there, the guy would whisper into his ear, and then the horse, walk over and do 49. But then, by the end of it, they were there. How could it be? So what they did is they got rid of the audience. And then the horse was no longer able to spell multiply or divide. And it turned out that the horse when that question was presented to the audience, and the horse would be going over to the number or the letter, the audience anticipation, the horse would feel the anticipation, the horse would anticipate, he would anticipate, and it was by the feeling that the audience was given that the horse was able to hone in on this. So Michael, you are that horse? So you are a bit better than that is that is what you’re doing. You’re and you’re getting the full feeling from the audience.

**Michael Hingson ** 28:05
Yeah, I hear a lot of information which makes which makes it amazing. That is amazing. So what was your first job with Bank of America? What did you start doing?

**Derek Healy ** 28:16
Oh, my word. So we went in no

**Michael Hingson ** 28:18
keeping besides being a closed model.

**Derek Healy ** 28:20
Yeah. The keep in mind, when I got my first job in Bank of America, I was I was leaving college and I was suffering severely from depression severity from depression. Now, if anyone is whether it be yourself or anyone else that knows anything about depression, it doesn’t just remove all of your confidence, but it literally shakes you to the core. It’s it’s a terrible affliction, or anyone. And my first job was actually working in Bank of America in the credit card division. So when I had just finished my train, and I walked into that sales floor, there was about 300 Absolute lunatics. There was I walked in there, the energy in that place. There was over on the left hand side when I walked in, there was two girls running down the full length of the corridor having an egg and spoon race for money. There was someone over the other side throwing darts at balloons that were filled with money like it was, this place was just insanity. It was it was craziness. And there was so much confidence in the place and that was my first job with those and I remember being brought straight to my cubicle. And just so I didn’t have to make eye contact with anyone and speak to anyone over straight on the phone, making making cold calls cold call cold call and push that as pushed out as literally banging out 100 Maybe 150 calls a day and that’s no joke. This is I hear you 15 years ago is a lot different than it is now in terms of outposts in terms of whatever on a dialer. But as I started as the skill started developing, and as the conversations I started having with these individually was every conversation every sale I made. It was like it was rebuilding a stone wall of confidence that I had knocked down through the years before. And it was an amazing just almost metamorphosis of someone that came in with the most own confidence on the shell, I probably looked okay. But internally, I was broken. But through that through dealing with that adversity, and through learning those new skills, it, it changed who I was, it changed who I was. And I still have those same skills today. But and learned a lot from that experience. But call center finance, called credit card, the hardest thing you could ever do in the situation I was in, and I loved every second of it, loved every second of it,

**Michael Hingson ** 30:48
I worked my first job. Well wasn’t my first job. But in late 1980s into 1990, I went to work for a company. And they’re the ones that eventually asked me to go to New York to open an office because I was selling from the west coast to the financial markets, Wall Street. And we were doing it all by phone. So I think my record was about 120 calls a day. Normally, it wasn’t that high because I spent time with customers explaining things about products. So for me, when I had 120 calls a day, I knew that in some senses, maybe I planted seeds, but wasn’t as productive at getting sales as I was when I had fewer calls because fewer calls meant I was actually interacting more with customers, which is the way I looked at it. Our bosses wanted as many calls a day as possible. And that wasn’t as practical as it should have been. But we over achieve goals. So it was okay.

**Derek Healy ** 31:47
Yeah, and I think that, that that is a train of thought in sales is it’s a numbers game. And to a certain extent that is true, but it’s about the value you’re having with the customers. That’s where the true change can happen. Yeah,

**Michael Hingson ** 32:02
a lot of people didn’t have anywhere near the number of calls, even on a good day, if you will, from a sales standpoint. Because people tended to be way too distracted. spend too much time talking and, and not on the phone. And I love being on the phone. It was a lot of fun. Yep, exactly,

**Derek Healy ** 32:21
exactly. I wonder. You say that’s a lot of fun, you can easily convince yourself that it’s a lot of fun. And that’s that’s the trick as well, you need to it’s a lot of people avoid getting on the phone, because they’re, I don’t know, it’s it’s their mindset of I don’t want to get on the phone. So I

**Michael Hingson ** 32:39
don’t want to talk to people, I’m afraid to talk to people, they might ask me something to show me up, which is of course getting back then to our whole discussion. From before, it’s okay, if you get a question you don’t know. And that happened to me a number of times, which also helped me learn a lot, technically. But when people ask questions, if I didn’t know, I would just say, Look, you know, I am not sure. Let’s finish this conversation and with other things that we have to do. Tell me when I can call you back, I’ll have an answer. And I worked always to have an answer that was so important. And I do that today.

**Derek Healy ** 33:16
I like yeah, it’s important.

**Michael Hingson ** 33:20
So how long would you do credit card stuff,

**Derek Healy ** 33:24
did it for two years, you know, a year, give or take, give or take, give or take two years, which is it can be a long time. But I found while I was there. Obviously you’ve you’ve I went from severely depressed, a broken individual to be one of the top performing executives right across Europe for Bank of America in terms of the outputs and the close rate, revenue I was generating. So I was riding high. But I always wanted that success. But I didn’t even know what what really was successful. What I found during that whole, I suppose year and a half, two years that I was doing that I was still displaying the same sort of habits that brought me Depression years before, the only difference was, now I had a lot more money to partake in certain things. So you’ve you’ve you’ve still got the same How would you put them internal behaviors that bring you back down. And even though used on a on a on a conscious or an intellectual level, you may want that success, so to speak. But on an emotional level, you begin and continue to display behaviors that just brings you straight back down. You’re not so Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And that’s another thing I suppose in universities what they could teach you. They teach you skills, they teach you skills, but they don’t teach you correct habits. And if a day to day and a life style in a lifetime, in a day to day, and even in an hour, your life is just made up of tiny little miniscule habits and thoughts. And people focus on the big things, I’m gonna have this house, or I’m gonna have this money, or I’m gonna have this life, but they take their eye off the ball on the tiny little miniscule things. And that’s what makes all the difference. And I did that for two years. But again, all my tiny little decisions were combinated to poor outcomes. Whereas, and I think that’s, that’s something I learned, it took me a long time to implement certain changes that removed bad habits. Because again, talent sometimes is, is a man or a woman’s biggest curse. And you can learn that no matter how bad things are, I can bounce back from us. And that nearly is one of your worst enemies. Whereas if you focus on just the small things you can control and the small habits, it allows for long lasting success.

**Michael Hingson ** 36:01
So what did you do after credit cards, property,

**Derek Healy ** 36:04
there’s a bit of property. It was, this was pre GFC. So property was all the rage, and it was all where the revenue was. That was fun as well. That’s when I first moved to the fine city of Dublin, Ireland. So I spent a number of years up there. And we were selling property in Spain. So it was all golf course, beautiful properties. I don’t think many of them survived the global financial crisis. So there’s a lot of green open land over there. I don’t think many survived. But it’s, yeah, it’s funny. There’s, there’s always, if you want to go, if you want to make money, just just that money is raining everywhere. And if you want to make it, you just have to go and stand under where it’s raining most. And at that time, it was property. But the rain eventually stops. So you need to know when to get out. So yeah, it was it was an interesting, great learning experience there as well.

**Michael Hingson ** 37:08
Well, you have, but you have been doing work in the financial industry. And yeah, I’d love to hear more of the other things that you’ve done since but you’ve been in this business for almost 20 years. How? Let’s say you’ve dealt with chinzy, you’ve done with millennials and Gen X and even baby boomers. What are the different groups? Like? How are how is how’s all that evolved? And has it evolved in a good way from Boomers to Gen Zers?

**Derek Healy ** 37:37
Yeah, wow. The like, in Australia now, when we first came to Australia, how we integrated so well, was our commitment to just and it wasn’t even our commitment, how we generate, how we integrated so well, much like most immigrants, you just get stuck in, you just try and do your best. Sometimes it’s just a poor food on your table. So you’ve got that mindset of pushing, pushing forward, that allows you immediately just one of the laws of the universe by pushing forward and doing your very best as much as you can, you’re gonna get certain results from it. And we’re, we were greeted with open arms by the Australians, what seems to happen with a lot of the younger generation that’s coming through, they don’t have that hunger to succeed, it’s more of a they’re entering a safe place. And it’s, they’re not prepared to step outside that safe place to to succeed. That’s why I do I do believe travel does implement certain behaviors that can be so valuable to people. As long as you’re not supported by your parents on your trip, you need to be there needs to be an opportunity for you to go very, very hungry. And that’s going to be a lot of learning from that. So with that with a lot of the Gen z’s. For the last 10 years, when I’ve been working in this industry in Australia, the feedback from the market is these people are a jellyfish generation, there’s not as much they just no one just wants to get stuck in no one wants to do this. And I’ve heard that so often. But why doesn’t someone do something about it then? Like why do we accept those certain things by people? Or why do we? Why? Yeah, why do we accept those certain behaviors from individuals? And a lot of times people will. People will do what they see. I think as leaders, we’re leading Gen Z if you like, we need to be living a life that inspires those individuals that they want to follow. So if you’ve got a lot of people that aren’t, you know, will say that jellyfish generation Gen Z’s aren’t, they don’t want to make us well perhaps that we need to as leaders, we need to be living lives that they want to emulate. They want to follow because there is a lot of people that they just don’t dare look, no one wants To do nothing, people want to be inspired, once they’re inspired, they will push true. And I think what’s lacking with Gen Z is inspiration, there is not enough people to inspire them to on a path that they want to follow, or they need to follow. So with Gen z’s, I’ve worked a lot with them. It is challenging, because as I said, a lot of them don’t want to step outside their comfort zone. And what I found to help them with that was for me to live from, from a leader and from a mentor, to live the best possible life I can with the best possible habits with the best possible mindset. And, and, but And of course, by leading from the front, and if you can do all of those things, no, you’re not going to get 100% of the Gen Z’s if you like. But what you are going to get, you’re going to get the people that want to change, and you can’t change people that don’t want to change. But when you’ve got the opportunity to inspire certain individuals, you need to do it right. So do you think that

**Michael Hingson ** 40:59
a lot of them feel more entitled, or they want to feel that they’re entitled as opposed to have to earn?

**Derek Healy ** 41:07
Well, there is that of course, like, yes, there’s a certain level of entitlement that is a really entitlement, because again, a lot of times, they’ll want to fool, okay, well, this is what it is to change yourself. Okay. So as an example, from a diet standpoint, it’s not hard to have the perfect physique. To eat perfect to do things as close to perfect as you can. That’s not hard. Conceptually, that’s not hard. But to implement that, and to actually stand by your diet, to stand by your exercise routine, something as simple as this. It’s a lot easier to not do that. The simple things are easy to do. But the simple things are easy not to do. That’s the problem. And it’s a lot easier to focus on external matters, as opposed to internal matters. And I think that’s what it is, a lot of the Gen Z’s if you like, it’s easier to focus on things that are outside their control, and focus all their attention on that or even use that as a leverage than it is to focus on the simple things of the internal because that’s, that’s the easiest to do. And it’s the easiest to not to do. And I think that’s where the thing is, but I think that comes back to inspiration. When I’ve worked with individuals. They see the work ethic, they see the true desire to help these individuals. And that can inspire people. So I think as leaders, I think the Gen Z’s yes, there might be entitled, but what about the leaders? What are the leaders do about that?

**Michael Hingson ** 42:43
So course always the question, Well, what about the millennials and the Gen X’s?

**Derek Healy ** 42:49
The millennials, the Gen X’s? Yeah. But again, they’re the leaders that came before. They’re the leaders that came before. And if I hear a lot of them, like I speak with them, I hope none of them are gonna listen to this after but I speak to them every day from a consultancy standpoint. And a lot of those individuals will complain about the people that are in their organization. But what are they doing about it? And exactly? What are they doing about it? How are you making a difference, you can ask, push people to change, you need to lead people to change. And I’ll be speaking to these business owners, these millionaire business owners, they’ll be able to shape their business will be rolling to a certain extent. But there’ll be big holes in their business and in their own personal life. If that’s the case, how are you meant to be inspired these individuals? So a lot of people even with from a business owner, they were looked at the Gen Z’s or the or the Gen Y’s or they looked at other individuals and say they are not doing what they’re supposed to be doing. But that’s deflecting from themselves. Are they truly doing what they are supposed to do to inspire?

**Michael Hingson ** 43:53
Yeah, a lot of it has to absolutely do with inspiration, because people are going to relate to people they can look up to or that they can admire. And if leaders aren’t doing that, then that’s a problem. And one of the things that I’ve said many times is that bosses are not necessarily leaders and leaders are not necessarily bosses. One of the things that I did whenever I hired a salesperson, in our initial meetings after they joined, I would say, let me explain what are our roles here are, you’re here to sell. I’m not here to tell you how to sell because I hired you assuming that assuming that you know how to sell. What you and I need to figure out is what I can best do to help you and add value to what you do to make you as successful as possible. And that’s going to be different for every single person who I hire because they all have different talents and the people who got that leveraged me in many different ways and it worked out really well the people who didn’t do Just plodding along as they usually do. And they didn’t last very long. But the people who got it really put it to use. And we talked about, like what I thought I could add in a way of value to what they do in terms of being a sales guy, but also being technical and a physicist and being blind, I learned to listen very well, most of the time, my wife didn’t always agree, but when, anyway, but but the bottom line is that the fact is, I would be able to add value to them. And they took great advantage of it, which I loved. Because they were more successful. That just we worked as a team, we created a team and it worked.

**Derek Healy ** 45:44
That is it. We are very aligned with our concepts there. We are very, very, very aligned with our concepts. And yeah, I think, yeah, that too much of it’s too much, too many people are being pushed from the back, as opposed to being led from the front. And you as a leader did the right thing there by finding how can I make you better, that’s all I’m here to do is make you better. So that’s beautiful. And look,

**Michael Hingson ** 46:11
if we made mistakes along the way, admit it and fix it. There you go. But most of the time, it’s easy. I think that’s

**Derek Healy ** 46:20
what a lot of times, that’s an interesting one actually. Even getting back to school, like in school. I even remember for myself, you get asked a question. And sometimes you’d be afraid to try and answer the question because you could be wrong. So you nearly get this PTSD of being wrong. And perfection shouldn’t. When you’re afraid of being wrong, then you’re afraid of making decisions. And if you’re afraid of making decisions, you’re going to welcome procrastination. making the wrong decision is in theory, it can be the right decision. Because once you make a wrong decision, it’s easy to rectify your path and get on the right course. But you just need to make a decision, you need to make a choice. Yeah. So if you if you can harbor, that environment, where mistakes are good, as long as you rectify them very, very fast. Decisions are good. If you can, if you can harbor that type of environment. That’s an environment where people are willing to learn. And that’s that’s where I’ve had success, I suppose in any of the any of the roles that I’ve been in.

**Michael Hingson ** 47:31
Yeah. And I think it’s important that we always learn. The best teachers are also good learners.

**Derek Healy ** 47:38
Yes, yes. Some of the best, some of the mesh, which makes a

**Michael Hingson ** 47:43
lot of sense. How do you measure your impact or the impact of what you do?

**Derek Healy ** 47:49
The Well, look, if even if you just look at it from a from a sales standpoint, it’s always numbers, you’ll always just chase. KPIs are numbers, but it was funny. achieving certain numbers has never been, it’s never been a hard thing. And you will achieve certain numbers, get achieve certain goals, but it gets to the stage where even those certain things there’s not as much not adrenaline, but not enough dopamine that comes from achieving the goals. And I think when I assessed I assessed that a while back, why did I not feel? Okay, were after achieving this amazing goal, why do I not feel happy, it’s just like you’ve achieved that now move on. And it wasn’t till I started till I was mentored by actually, it was a former prisoner. And he introduced me to so much philosophy and learnings. And it wasn’t about achieving these bigger goals or measuring certain success. We took a backer step, and we just focused on our internal so we, when I look at measuring success, I don’t look at the bigger picture, I look at the smaller little things. So to build confidence. That’s where success success is meant to give you give you confidence. But I like to do it the other way. I like to build confidence to gain success. So I’ll start off by trying to be a measure of success and myself. Now what I mean by that is, I’ll be up at 4am I’ll be up at 4am I’ll drink two liters of water. After two liters of water, I’ll do a small bit of stretching and I’ll read and I’ll journal a small bit, then I’ll go into a hard workout. Then I’ll go in and I’ll have a coffee after that. Then I’ll go in and I’ll try and inch out ensure that I’ve got no negative thoughts during that whole two hour process. So by the time that 630 comes or seven, I’ll have achieved six to seven things that very very few people will have achieved. I will consider that success. I will consider and that will that success that I got by within two hours. Most people want to achieve in most people won’t even achieve that simple thing in a week. By achieving that success, I’ll consider that success. So I suppose if I, if I take it back, where I used to always go wrong, where a lot of people go wrong, they’ll look at this big goal as a measure of success. And then when they don’t achieve us, they feel inferior, or they feel whatever. Whereas I’ll take it back. And I’ll look at every moment of my day as an opportunity to be successful. And that pushes me forward, like a Concorde plane throughout the entire day. And then the bigger things don’t matter, because I’ve achieved all the smaller things, and then just happened so that the bigger things present themselves,

**Michael Hingson ** 50:46
and you’ve cleared your mind

**Derek Healy ** 50:48
completely, completely.

**Michael Hingson ** 50:50
So what is it you do today? What work do you do now?

**Derek Healy ** 50:54
I do a number of different things. I’m involved in a number of different startups, Mike, well, one of the things that I’ve always I suppose nowadays, you’d call it ADHD, or you could call it something, but I love looking at shiny things. And I’m always over, over stimulated by opportunities. So I work with a number of different startups in the AI space. I coach people, I mentor people. And I’m one of the founding directors of the hummingbird sales Academy, which is a sales Academy specifically to instill confidence, values, and ambition in in individuals. So it’s, it’s sales, yes. And sales is something that we focus on and skills and communication that we focus on. But really, our sales Academy is focused on habits, and instilling mindset and habits and individual. And that’s where we’re getting success from our academy.

**Michael Hingson ** 51:54
So is it a virtual academy? Or is it in person or?

**Derek Healy ** 52:02
Right now? It’s, it’s, it’s how would you call a blended learning if you like? So what we find is, obviously, if you go to a sales training or any sort, of course, immediately you come back from it, you’re highly motivated. And this is the problem. Motivation can dip. So what we find is, even during our two day bootcamp, there’s huge growth, huge motivation. There’s people nearly doing push ups at the end of it, you don’t I mean, just You’re, you’re ready for action, and that motivation can wane. Yeah, so we blend it in with with weekly coaching calls and conversations to go through things. We we have regular meetups. And of course, then there’s the online training, and you need to follow the code for our coaching to work. It’s all about mindset. So there is a lot of fitness that’s blended in those diets that’s blended in those, how would you put it, some people would look at it, and they’d say, Well, that doesn’t sound too enjoyable. But the idea is you need to change your mindset and focus on things that aren’t that enjoyable. Because once you focus on them, and you master them, and you trick your mind into thinking this isn’t that enjoyable. But then you trick your mind into thinking, I love this. This is the best thing ever, exactly what I do on the phone, Michael, you totally enjoyed being on the phone. There’s people that don’t enjoy something as simple as that. But when you trick your mind, and you consistently do it in your mind tells you eventually that you love this. That’s what our program is about. It’s about looking at things that you that may not be enjoyable on paper. And it’s doing them to a level that suddenly you begin to love the uncomfortable if you like.

**Michael Hingson ** 53:43
And of course, a lot of the times that we don’t enjoy something or we think it’s not enjoyable. There’s usually fear or something behind it, that we have to break through and recognize maybe it’s not really what we thought. So

**Derek Healy ** 53:56
well. There’s two voices, there’s two voices in our heads, the king and the queen. I could use other other terms, but we’ll just use the king and the queen for the moment. And the king or the king wants to do was conquer. You know the king wants to do is conquer. He wants to go out there. He wants to eat only when he needs to eat. He wants to conquer. He wants to build he wants to grow. He wants to mentor. And then there’s the Queen, and the Queen wants to relax. The Queen wants to lounge the Queen wants to enjoy the spoils of war, enjoy the spoils of the day. And every single morning, every single hour almost, you’re encountered with the king and the queen. And you get to listen, who do you choose to listen to? And that’s going to define your day. So when I’m up at 4am and it’s pitch dark out and it’s raining, and I’m doing pull ups, or I’m doing certain things that and I know there’s very few people up. I’m listening to the king. But as soon as that alarm goes off at 4am and I I want to go back to sleep and live beside my beautiful lady. That’s the Queen telling me to just sit back, relax, you, you’ve been working out, you’ve been doing it too hard, relax, have a little break. So you get to choose to listen to the two voices. So part of our academy is identifying those voices, and working on strategies on how to only listen to the person that’s congruent with where you want to end up.

**Michael Hingson ** 55:24
At any given time, at any given time, and get the two of them to communicate with each other, the King and Queen should be communicating. But you know, what do you do? That’s

**Derek Healy ** 55:32
it. And, and our idea was, I went on a couple of years ago, I went to Cambodia and I did a retreat, a silent retreat and meditations and all the rest of it. And it was one of the guys that I worked with. She had said, Derek, you’re too Yang. You need to find your Yeah, your your find your Yang, man, your your your to Yang. So you’re right, the king and the queen need to speak together. Maybe I don’t listen enough. And that’s that’s also a detriment. So you’re right. Maybe there needs to be the two of them need to speak together as well.

**Michael Hingson ** 56:04
Yeah. Well, tell me what is you invented the STOIC code? Tell me about that. Yeah,

the STOIC code as I said, What am I one of my mentors, and even one of my mindset coaches to this day, he was an individual that spent over 10 years in the penitentiary system in America. And he, he identified he, he spoke so much on removing your future self, and purely focusing on your, your, your this very moment in time, and only focusing on this very moment in time. And when I, when I reflected on the success I’ve had and what pushed me back, I realized there was never really any framework, I had all the skills in the world. But there wasn’t really a framework that I followed. Everything was pushing forward, but there wasn’t enough. How would you say, the foundation I was building foundations, I was building beautiful, beautiful houses, beautiful lives, but on a foundation of sand. So the story, the story code, it’s, it’s a framework, it’s a framework for communication, it’s a framework for influence. And that influence is also on yourself. But it’s essentially it’s a, it’s a it’s a way to sell, it’s a way to communicate, and it’s a way to influence yourself. So the STOIC code, it’s built on five principles of story tenacity, objective integrity, and community, our communication sorry. So we’ve all got a story to tell. And as humans, we only resonate with story. We don’t resonate with facts, we don’t resonate with features, we don’t resonate with benefits, we resonate with story. So when we’re communicating with our clients or with ourselves, we need to have a relevant story that is going to be able to have that metaphor that people can connect with. So in our framework, we work a lot on our own internal stories, and being able to identify our clients, external or internal stories that will help influence the communication channels, if you like, the tenacity and our framework is purely centered on unfortunately, it’s it’s hard work, it’s welcoming, uncomfortable. Our objective in the story is understanding this, and this is where a lot of people fall down, they focus too much on the outcome, they will from a sales standpoint, they’ll focus too much on closing the deal or reaching their commission or they focus too much on on getting the deal if you like and that certain behavior, that mindset is going to it’s going to protect you from a position of weakness in my opinion. So the objective in our in our framework is you only focus on what you can achieve. Now you can focus on your activity, your mindset, your attitude, and you remove yourself from the end outcome of the of the deal if you like and it’s fully even put in and then of course integrity goes without saying and the communication side of things is purely based on the communication standpoint your your body language or tone and everything every form of communication that’s that’s centered around influence.

**Michael Hingson ** 59:28
Wow. And it’s an incredible code and it makes perfect sense all the way around. Well, I have to ask one thing, there’s a rumor about a wedding coming up. Hmm.

**Derek Healy ** 59:41
I can’t believe you got the invitation already. I only sent that out here the other day. You got it in the post.

**Michael Hingson ** 59:49
I haven’t gotten to it yet. But I heard a rumor from from a little hummingbird.

**Derek Healy ** 59:53
Oh yeah. Yeah, I am. I am to be weird. This coming in this coming December I’m actually to be read. So yeah, it’s it’s going to be an exciting one. So we’re doing it doing it in Malaysia. We’re based in Australia here, but my partner is she’s originally from Malaysia. So we’ll do it on on home soil. In the olden days, perhaps we do a Home and Away leg. Boris? Well, I think I’ll settle just for the home leg in Malaysia for this one. So, yeah, so it should be it should be an interest in an affair. It’s my first wedding. And I can guarantee you, Michael, it’ll be my last

**Michael Hingson ** 1:00:36
one in my life. And it lasted 40 years, my wife passed away last November, which you’re sad about. But I’ve got 40 years of marriage, and she’s monitoring me from somewhere. So if I misbehave, I’m going to hear about it.

**Derek Healy ** 1:00:49
And keep in mind, she is monitoring you. I’ve no doubt about it. There is no doubt about it. She’s monitoring. Yes. So yeah. Well,

**Michael Hingson ** 1:00:56
if people want to reach out to you learn more about the the hummingbird sales academy or just maybe seek your counsel and advice or just learn about you. How do they do that?

Absolutely. So you’ll be able to get us at the hummingbirdsalesacademy.com Get us at the website, you’ll get me on socials, we’ll leave them in the links in description. Whether this be from a business standpoint and advice standpoint or just to connect, reach out, we can share a lot of value with each other. And I think connections making a human connection is so important. So anytime, if you’re if you’re listening to this, feel free to reach out and connect. Laughter.

**Michael Hingson ** 1:01:37
Cool. Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate you. And I really appreciate the time that you have spent it’s early in the day there. So it’s what now about 10 o’clock in the morning.

It’s just 10 o’clock. And I’ve it’s been a pleasure sharing a coffee with you, Michael. I’m sorry. I couldn’t put the kettle on for you here. My coffee with you. It’s been a pleasure. Well,

**Michael Hingson ** 1:01:59
I’ve enjoyed it very much. I hope that you’ve enjoyed it listening to us. To to Derek and we talk. We’d love to hear your comments. Please feel free to reach out to me Michaelhi at accessiBe A c c e s s i b e.com Or go to our podcast page www dot MichaelHingson m i  c h a el h i n g s o n.com/podcast. Love to hear your thoughts love to hear your opinions. I know that Derek would love it if you’d reach out to him. And wherever you’re listening, please give us a five star rating. We value those very highly. And we hope that you’ll be kind enough to give us a rating like that. And one last time. Derek, I really appreciate you being here. And this has been a lot of fun.

**Derek Healy ** 1:02:44
Absolutely, Michael, absolute pleasure. Enjoy. Thank you again and speak to you very very soon.

**Michael Hingson ** 1:02:54
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit
. AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

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