Episode 180 – Unstoppable Trauma Victim and Progressive Psychologist with Teri Wellbrock
I had the pleasure of meeting Teri Wellbrock a few weeks ago and almost at once asked her to be a guest on Unstoppable Mindset. As with all our guests I asked her for a biography. What I received was a story about a woman who, from the age of four years old, experienced a variety of sexual and physical abuses and later was clearly in the wrong place at the wrong time as she experienced two bank robberies. In both robbery cases her life was in danger from gun-toting robbers. She will tell us all about her early life.
More important, Teri will discuss how she was able to overcome her early life and get a degree in psychology, whose main goal in life is to help others. She has a great deal of experience in dealing with emotional trauma and healing. We will talk about some of the techniques she uses and which were utilized to help her.
Teri is a wonderful and engaging person. I am sure you will find her worth hearing. You also can seek out her podcast which she discusses near the end of our episode.
About the Guest:
Teri Wellbrock is a trauma warrior, having survived and thrived after learning to cope with her C-PTSD symptoms and 25 years of severe panic attacks by utilizing EMDR therapy, personal research and learned coping skills along with a foundation of faith and positivity. She is currently writing a book, Unicorn Shadows: From Trauma to Triumph – A Healing Guide, about her multiple traumas, with the intent to help others reach their own joyous and peaceful existence via her “story of hope”. She also speaks publicly about her triumph over trauma, including guest appearances on Healing from Grief and Loss online summit and Avaiya University’s Overcoming PTSD online event.
Teri is mom to three beautiful children (ages 29, 27, and 17); graduated magna cum laude from the
University of Cincinnati with a Bachelor’s Degree in Psychology; has written a children’s book,
The Doodle with the Noodle, with her daughter, about their Therapy Dog, Sammie the Labradoodle; has created the Sammie’s Bundles of Hope project (bags filled with trinkets of hope donated to children with trauma history); and is producer and host of The Healing Place Podcast on iTunes, Pandora, Spotify, YouTube, iHeartRadio and many more audio outlets
(now downloaded in 125 countries and ranked in the TOP 2%
globally out of 3.1 million shows). She maintains a blog at www.unicornshadows.com and
writes a monthly Hope for Healing Newsletter. Teri’s professional history includes sales, managing,
teaching, and case management with a mental health agency. Her life p
urpose is to make a positive difference in the lives of others and shine a light of hope into dark spaces.
Ways to connect with Teri:
About the Host:
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.
Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.
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**Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.
**Michael Hingson ** 01:22
Well, greetings all once again. It is time for unstoppable mindset. I’m your host, Mike Hingston. And today we get to have a lovely conversation with Teri. Wellbrock. Teri has a great story to tell. And she talks about C PTSD and other things. And I’m anxious to learn about that, but just anxious to really get to know Teri better. So we’ll jump right into it. And Teri, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We’re really glad you’re here.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 01:50
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me. I’m very excited to be here. And yeah, I’m, I’ve loved our conversations that we’ve had beforehand. And we were laughing so hard at finding movies that we love and yeah, it’s gonna be great competition.
**Michael Hingson ** 02:05
Yeah, still not too much better than Young Frankenstein. But, you know, it’s
still one of my all time
**Michael Hingson ** 02:13
I have yet to find somebody who remembers though, when when I start to talk with them. When I say Dr. Franken stone. They don’t say that’s Frankenstein. Right. Of course, if they did that, then I go. So it’s Frederick Frankenstein. Yes. And you must be Igor. No, it’s I go, I go. I spelled it Igor. Are they going to Rome and didn’t they? Oh, Mel Brooks.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 02:46
Yes. Oh my gosh. Again. I love Madeline Kahn, Madeline
**Michael Hingson ** 02:49
Kahn. Well, Madeline Kahn. Leachman, Terry gar all of that crowd Marty Feldman. Yes, Gene Wilder all of them. What a group Well, anyway, we’re really glad you’re here and well, thanks. We can talk about them on another podcast and take a whole hour and have a lot of fights right quote the whole movie and that’s it. Yeah, we could just do it you know. I can take care of that hump. What what
**Teri Wellbrock ** 03:22
you’re gonna hear me snort laughing here.
**Michael Hingson ** 03:26
Well, tell us a little bit about kind of the earlier Teri the young Teri and all that how you started out and kind of stuff.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 03:34
Yeah, all that fun stuff. So when I when I stand on stages, or when a microphone in my hand and give presentations, I say I always start with my my trauma story, because I want to paint the picture of what I had gone through, but then I get to the happy and hopeful part. So so my early life my first 22 years of life are filled with horrific trauma. And I will gladly share I don’t have a problem sharing the not gory details, but just a quick painted picture. When I was for an intoxicated parent attempted to drown me and my sister in a bathtub. When I was five, I was sexually molested by a 16 year old neighbor. When I was nine, I was sexually molested by a 19 year old neighbor when my mom sent me to borrow a can of soup. When I was 14, I was sexually accosted by a religious education director. I worked in the evenings for priests in our parish, and he was he was there and that evening, when I was 16 lost my virginity to date rape. Later that same year I was attacked by a gang downtown Cincinnati and sexually accosted later when I was 17, a police officer involved in that investigation asked my parents if he could take me to dinner to celebrate the convictions for that gang attack and my parents were like, Oh, he’s a police officer, of course. But he did not take me to dinner. He took me back to his apartment where he attempted to rape me. 21 I was involved in a bank robbery a gun was held to my head and my coworker was stabbed three times with a hunting knife. I switched to our main office where my 19 year old sister worked. And three months later, the same assailants who had not been caught, would come back only this time, would pull the trigger and murder my coworker. I had run from the back of the bank and came face to face with an armed the second armed assailant, and he pointed his Luger at me, but the gun misfired and my life was yet again spared. My dad was physically abusive during the first 10 years of my life. So my life, those first 22 years were filled with chaos. And I after that second bank robbery started to have horrific panic attacks, and not understanding the impact of trauma on the body, particularly for children and not being able to process trauma. And so really spent the next 25 years trying to figure out how to survive and live in this. The destruction that had happened during those early years of my life. And then on 2013 stepped onto the healing path and everything changed. So that was a.
**Michael Hingson ** 06:28
And as I recall, your sister was actually at the desk where your co worker was killed, but she had just gone away for a break or something. Yes,
**Teri Wellbrock ** 06:39
she had just asked to go on break. And the arm the gunman came in firing into the ceiling. And my sister dove under a desk. She was just walking away. And the young lady that was murdered was the one that took my sister’s place on the teller line. Yeah.
**Michael Hingson ** 06:57
So how is your sister cope with all that?
**Teri Wellbrock ** 07:01
We talk quite often about how we come out, okay. You know, we say sane, and then we giggle and laugh about it. Because, you know, there’s those moments we don’t feel so sad. But neither of us are alcoholics. I mean, our mom was an alcoholic favorite. Neither of us turned to drugs and alcohol to cope. We, we have both done a lot of therapy and a lot of healing work. You know, I’ve done alternative healing, like EFT, tapping and mindfulness and meditation. And so a tremendous amount of it comes across my radar, I’m going to give it a whirl and see if it helps me along my journey. So my sister is very similar. She’s certainly done a tremendous amount of healing. And she is a phenomenal artist. And so her, she releases and processes a lot through her artistry, and it’s just such a gift.
**Michael Hingson ** 08:04
Well, yeah, that’s an awful lot for anyone to go through. And I’m sitting here kind of saying to myself, and all I had to do was to get out of the World Trade Center on September 11. And my gosh, look at what you’ve done. It’s not just been one time, but it’s just been challenge after challenge. And you’ve obviously gone through it and been pretty successful what really turned it around,
**Teri Wellbrock ** 08:30
I would say my degrees in psychology. So after the second bank robbery, if you get married, had kiddos and I decided I really want to go back to school. I had gone for a year and a half and then dropped out of college. But this time I want to go and get my degree in psychology and understand. I still didn’t understand trauma still didn’t you know, that wasn’t on the radar yet. But I wanted to understand. My mom had been through two bank robberies, and why Why was she handling it different? She didn’t have panic attacks, what was going on. So I went back to school got a degree in psychology, which eventually led me to work in a mental health agency and through the school systems, and I was working with some kiddos again back in 2012 2013. And we were doing things like Kid yoga and art therapy to work through feelings that were coming up. We were doing bullying work we were doing so a lot of those things. And it was like this. I don’t call it no fear. It’s an angel whisper an aha moment, whatever it was, but it was just like the light bulb went off. And I remember being at home and thinking, holy moly, this stuff is helping me. And I realized in that moment like I was working with these kids, that really Little Teri’s like little me was still inside there going, I need this, I need this. And so I ended up reaching out to a counselor and saying I need help with this. And after a few sessions, I think she realized that it was beyond her abilities. And she said, Teri, have you ever considered EMDR therapy and I was like, What the heck is EMDR Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. So it’s a therapy that was developed by Dr. Shapiro, and she was working with soldiers returning from war. And realize that during therapy sessions, she would notice that their eyes were moving back and forth similar to REM sleep. And they were processing. The trauma is similar that we do with our, again, in REM sleep when we’re dreaming. And so she developed this process where those who have been through traumas can either look at a light bar and have their eyes go back and forth, or hold on to vibrational paddles, which I did, I kept my eyes closed, because I found I was too distracted peripherally. But if I kept my eyes closed, I could hold these paddles, and they would vibrate, left right legs, back and forth, and my hand and it would create the same movement in my eyes. And and then I was able to return into traumatic events. So we would specifically go back to the first bank robbery or an event that had happened, and I would allow body memories to come back or visuals to come back whatever it was, that would surface. And then slowly, slowly, slowly over four years, 98 sessions we processed. So much of that trauma. Yeah.
**Michael Hingson ** 12:09
Interesting. I, I’m sort of sitting here going to myself, I wonder how that would work with a blind person. But I guess with the vibrating paddles, because we don’t, especially blind from birth, eye movements are pretty foreign to me, but I know that they’re there. So it would be interesting to explore that someday,
**Teri Wellbrock ** 12:28
I still was thinking it is it was coming out of my mouth. I thought, oh my gosh, I wonder if they’ve ever done EMDR with someone who’s blind? Because do blind people? Did the eyes move during REM sleep is one?
**Michael Hingson ** 12:42
Oh, sure. I’m sure they do. You know, dreaming is dreaming. And with dreaming, we use the sensations and the senses that we have. But I think REM sleep is something that is common to everyone. So I am sure that that it would be and that it is I have never awake to know whether I exhibit it, but I’m sure it does. I would be really surprised if it if it’s not. What I don’t learn to do is to have control over eye movements. And maybe that’s why it’s not an issue, it’d be the same thing. Blind or not, because I don’t know how to look up or look down. But that doesn’t mean my eyes don’t move. Right. So I’m sure that REM sleep is is there. And and since as you pointed out, you use the panels, which essentially allow for the same sort of thing to happen. I wonder how that would work? It would be interesting to explore that.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 13:43
Yeah, I had, I had one therapist or similar counselor that had tried, where I had earphones on as well. And it was like the alternating the sound, alternating ears that just again it for whatever reason. caused my eyes to go right, left, right, left just just a slight little movements. Yeah.
**Michael Hingson ** 14:07
But it doesn’t take much to be noticed. So right. Interesting. The after researching, I think it would be an interesting thing to to explore. You know, the the reality is, is is not the only game in town, but it doesn’t mean that we all really function differently. It’s just that we use different techniques to get to the same place but some of these basic physiological sorts of things I think are pretty common across the board. But it would be interesting and maybe somebody who’s listening to this will reach out and and have comments for us which would be fun to hear.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 14:40
Yes, let me know let me know let me know if you find something out. I’ll let you know if I find something out. Yeah, there
**Michael Hingson ** 14:45
you go. Well, but nevertheless, you you were able to overcome all of it and be able to move forward. So you you went to college? Yeah, got your degree you got Your psychology degree Yes. Did you go to get any kind of a masters or I didn’t,
**Teri Wellbrock ** 15:05
I was I was going to go on for my PhD in psychology, I wanted to work with kids. And I took a child abuse course. And again, it was one of those moments where it was like teary in hindsight, I say, oh, you should have known, because I just remember being so overwhelmed by the content, the videos that we were presented with the reading materials, I think that was the time I read, a boy named it or called boy called it and it was about horrific physical abuse and emotional abuse. And just remember, some crying some so much struggle with it, and I had the conversation with myself of, I don’t think I can do this, because I would want to take every one of these kids home with me just show them what, you know, being protected and safe really is and I want to, you know, kill the parents, again, not understanding trauma, because it wasn’t on the radar at that time. Because this was back in I graduated in 99. So it was just starting to be talked about the impacts of trauma.
**Michael Hingson ** 16:16
Yeah, that’s the the other part about this whole concept of mental health, and, and growing is that, for the longest time, we, we never would talk about it. I was actually talking with someone, I think just yesterday on one of our podcast conversations, who said that, you know, when they grew up, which was in relatively the same kind of timeframe that I did, children were supposed to be seen and never heard. And they were discouraged from talking. And so it’s only in more recent times that we start to really hear that kids and adults start to really talk about some of the things that go on in their lives. And they are the better for talking about it. But unfortunately, we see I’ll still have all too many people who say, we don’t want to talk about that that’s not relevant. Right?
**Teri Wellbrock ** 17:11
Oh, gosh, talking about it. That’s one of the biggest things I one of my favorite things to discuss is the importance of putting our stories out there sharing our truths. I know one of the things that I really study a lot now is aces, which are adverse childhood experiences in the impact of aces on so many things in adult lives, if children go through and they are not given the opportunity to do their processing work, which is talking about their, their traumas, or working through it, if they can’t, or don’t want to talk about it through other healing resources, such as tapping, and there’s other somatic healing resources. But aces have an incredibly profound effect on having cancer having heart disease, I mean physical ailments, suicide ideology, you know, suicide ideation, depression, anxiety, panic attacks, these are the mental health portion of it. spiritual issues early, you know, sexual explorations, there’s just it has an incredibly profound effect on kids. And so yes, it needs to be talked about 100%.
**Michael Hingson ** 18:33
And we discourage kids, although I think they’re, obviously things need to be monitored, but we discourage kids. We did and do discourage kids from really exploring and learning and being allowed to ask questions. Yeah, way too much. And my parents were, were really pretty good about it. They they encouraged, especially me, I think, because my brother, who was two years older was able to see but for me, especially, they, they were pretty incredible. They encouraged me to ask and to explore, and they allowed that. I’m sure they want it monitored, and they watched but they encouraged it, which was pretty cool.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 19:21
Yeah, I certainly did with my three kids, because I wanted them to have such a different experience than I had because my dad was. He was six foot six 280 big strong guy, very violent my first 10 years of life, but my dad sought counseling. And I’ll never forget when he sat me on his lap at 10 years old and said, Terry, I realized now after meeting with this therapist that I was taking my frustrations with your mother’s alcoholism, girls and hitting you and I never should have hit you and I’ll never hit you again and he didn’t. And so he did healing work which She was incredibly impactful on my life. I was just gonna say that. Yeah, yeah, to see him and to apologize to his kid. And that was a huge lesson and forgiveness, which is a lot of work that I’ve done, I’ve done tremendous forgiveness work for all of my abusers, or the assailants that have crossed my path for myself, nor so for, not for them, but for me, you
**Michael Hingson ** 20:30
can’t, you can’t hold it in, you can’t just sit there and hate. I met a person. reasonably soon after September 11. He had been a fireman. And he decided to join the New York Police Department because he wanted to kill all the terrorists that did everything or they might do anything to the United States. And I thought at the time, I appreciate your dedication, but that’s a horrible reason to become a police officer.
**Michael Hingson ** 20:59
You know, we can’t hate and I never did hate the people who did what they did on September 11. What I always thought was, you got what you deserve. You’re not here anymore. And I’ll bet you didn’t get to go up to heaven and find 72 Virgins waiting for you either. Right? I doubt that very seriously. And I’m sure that’s the case. But, you know, it wasn’t a religious thing. It was a bunch of hoods a bunch of thugs who decided they wanted to try to have their way with the world, and they use the name of religion to do it. But I know that that’s not what the Islamic religion is all about.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 21:44
Yeah, I agree. I think it was radical. Sorry. I’m moving Max. onto my lap again.
**Michael Hingson ** 21:52
Are we are we getting? Are we getting bored Max.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 21:56
He was getting he was getting I want to go run and bark at something. So
**Michael Hingson ** 22:02
Max is a Schnoodle. Part Schnauzer, part poodle, for those who don’t know, cuz that came up before we started talking on on the recording, but that’s what Max is. Yeah.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 22:14
So as to be my co host or my co guest right now.
**Michael Hingson ** 22:18
You know, Max has anything to say it’s okay. But, you know, he’s got to speak up.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 22:23
Right, right now he’s just I’m rocking him in my arms. He wants to down and then he decided no, I won’t back up. So there was a there was a moment where we were having a little bit of
**Michael Hingson ** 22:33
now what’s the Labradoodles name? That Sammy,
**Teri Wellbrock ** 22:35
she’s seeing me she was a registered therapy dog. So we used to volunteer with kids in school when we lived in Ohio. And that was, oh my God, it was so fulfilling, like, just great soul work. To be able to go into the schools, we worked through the counselor’s office. And Sammy has a gift as he as I’m sure you know, there’s these dogs have a way of just connecting beyond words. Alamo
**Michael Hingson ** 23:06
doesn’t know a stranger, although he does know he’s got to focus on his job. But I’m sure that if he ever changed careers, he’d be a wonderful emotional support dog or a therapy dog. But he’s great at what he does. And he even likes our kitty. So that works out well. Good. And the kitty likes him. So it’s fair.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 23:28
That’s good. I keep joking and saying Sammy needs a cat. The rest of the family is not going along with me kiss. Sammy, she’s just the sweetest, sweetest soul.
**Michael Hingson ** 23:38
Well, how old are the kids now?
**Michael Hingson ** 23:42
your children, your grandchildren?
**Teri Wellbrock ** 23:44
Yeah. The human children. Those are the ones they are. So I have my son, oldest son is in Denver. He’s going to be 30 This year I had around it. And then my youngest son is 27. And then we have a 17 year old daughter. So they’re all great, wonderful kids. And then Sammy has got a birthday coming up. Gosh, next week, the 23rd. And
**Michael Hingson ** 24:11
is your daughter going to be a senior in high school?
**Teri Wellbrock ** 24:13
She is Yeah. I said she’s headed off to take the AC T in a different city tomorrow. She just left and so yeah, all that fun stuff. We get to go touring colleges. She wants to be a pilot. Is that not crazy? I love it. Now I I’m just so blown away because I see those jets up in the air and I think how does that tube fly and that plummet to the earth and here my kid wants to wants to fly so she flew a plane at 16 for Christmas. We gave her a discovery flight and they took her up an instructor shook her up he lifted it off, but once it got into the air her, she flew it the entire time over the islands here in South Carolina, and then flew it back to Savannah international airport and he landed it.
**Michael Hingson ** 25:10
Wow. That’s pretty cool. Well, you know, if that’s what she wants to do, and she ends up being good at it, then great. Yeah,
**Teri Wellbrock ** 25:17
I think she’ll really pursue it. So she wants to apply for Delta.
**Michael Hingson ** 25:22
A lot better than being a driver on the road. I’ll tell you. Oh, for sure. As the I have, I still am of the opinion that we can’t have autonomous vehicles any too soon, because we need to take driving out of the hands of drivers.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 25:36
I see it all the time. And people think I’m crazy for it. Because I say self driving vehicles, at least that will give you a better chance of surviving someone else. Yeah, you know, driving crazy. So yeah, I think it’s awesome. I say we make
**Michael Hingson ** 25:54
sense to me. Yeah. So you have, you’ve obviously become much more aware of yourself, and you have you have thought about and obviously decided to move forward and not let all the stuff that happened to you. Take you down, if you will, how did how did you do that? And how? Well, let me just do that. How did how did you do that? And, you know, do you still think you have a ways to go or what?
**Teri Wellbrock ** 26:29
Yeah, that’s a great question. And I used to ask myself that a lot. I would be like, how did I make it through all of them? What? Because people would tell me all the time, Terry, you radiate joy, you just have this light about you? And I would. And then they’d hear my story. And they would say how, how did you get through all of that, and you still just have this joyousness? And for life, one of my nicknames and I don’t know, am I allowed to say a cuss word on your show, if you want. So one of my nicknames is glitter shitter. Because people were just like, you know, you’re always looking at the positive, you’re always just in so I didn’t understand for a long time again until I started doing my my my trauma studies and understanding, resilience in importance of resilience. And so I had people in my life that helped me, not just survive, but believe in myself enough that I had built an incredible amount of resilience and ability to overcome. And my grandma Kitty was, quote, unquote, my, my babysitter, so my, my mom worked full time. And my dad would run, try to run various businesses, he struggled a lot because they would fail. And then he would start another one. But my grandma was the one that was home with me and my little sister. And she was the kindest, most loving, most gentle soul in simple things, like just peeling me an apple, or sitting me on her lap and watching general hospital together. I mean, it was just simple little gestures of love and kindness that helped me survive the chaos that was going on around me constantly. My my best friend’s parents were, I would spend the night a lot at her house because it was just a gentle kind place to be her parents were very loving, kind people. And they felt safe there. And so they know
**Michael Hingson ** 28:45
some of the things that were going on with you.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 28:48
Nobody knew. Okay, no, I didn’t. I didn’t share any of it. And I was in my 30s. Yeah.
**Michael Hingson ** 28:56
But you felt safe there. You were saying? Yeah, yeah. So
**Teri Wellbrock ** 28:59
it just again and I had a teacher so so we talk about trauma and in particularly aces adverse childhood experiences in kids. And what it is that the kids who are going through difficult situations, you know, maybe addiction at home or physical abuse or divorce or whatever it is that’s causing some chaos in their life bullying at school. And that one of my previous podcast guests, Dr. Janine conahey. She was working on a program and what it was hashtag one caring adult. And that is, that’s the key. That really is the key. It’s having those people in place that help a child, believe in themselves, help a child know they’re loved, help a child know that. Somebody is looking out for them. Someone cares. That makes him a powerful difference.
**Michael Hingson ** 29:57
Yeah. You meant shinned that you wandered sometimes with your mother being an alcoholic and so on. And if you didn’t take that path, did she ever change her path? Or did that ever? Did she ever get any better?
**Teri Wellbrock ** 30:15
Yeah. And that’s such a great story. Oh my gosh. So my mom just died this year on my birthday. So March 14 of this year, but my mom was a severe alcoholic my entire life. And in her early 80s, she hit her rock bottom. I was visiting my son in Colorado, we were in Estes Park, having a beautiful vacation and the phone rang. And that was the hospital saying, Hey, your mom is here. She’s been detoxing, and we need someone to come pick her up. And I was like, I’m done. I’m done. I can’t do it anymore. I was always the Savior. I was always the good girl, the one that would go in and clean up the mess and make everything better. And it couldn’t do anymore. It’s very codependent relationship. And so I walked away from her for three months. And it was the hardest thing I’ve ever, ever, ever done in my life. I cried every day. I thought I was a horrible human. But it was during those three months, when my sister had walked away, the grandkids had walked away. I had walked away. My dad was had died years before. And she was left to pick herself up by herself by herself. And she was very religious, very Catholic person. So she had a talk with her Jesus picture hanging on her wall. It she, she did it. And she lived for almost three years sober. And she would talk about it though I had her on my show twice. And we talked about the trauma. We talked about her journey. And she started to understand the the role that alcohol played in helping her survive her own childhood trauma. And so we I explained to her what what childhood trauma hit was doing to her. And she finally finally started to share her horrors that she had lived with and hadn’t told anyone in 80 something years. And it started to help her heal. And she wasn’t needing to turn to alcohol as much. In the end. She was diagnosed with liver cancer and cirrhosis of the liver. So the algo had done its damage. And then she dove back into the bottle because she took that as God’s way of saying, Well, you got cancer and cirrhosis. So mice, Well, Justin, enjoy the booze. So she did. And it was the booze that ended up killing her she fell and couldn’t survive. She just had to go into hospice and just couldn’t, couldn’t pull out of it that last time. So it
**Michael Hingson ** 33:11
is it is still sad. I you know, I know there are people that drink a lot. And I’m sure that it’s mostly to, to hide or cover up things, but that’s what they do. But I’ve never never felt a need to do anything like that. For me. I got to work through it, whatever it is. Yeah,
**Teri Wellbrock ** 33:33
I’m the same. I didn’t like that feeling. I mean, I certainly drank in high school, it was it was the 80s. And it was like the thing to do. And it was more of a party scene social thing, but not a coping thing. And so it was very easy. It was very easy for me to step away from it and realize I don’t drink now it doesn’t mean I can’t Yeah, I just I just choose not to I will go out to dinner and I have water. It’s just what I do.
**Michael Hingson ** 34:02
I can have a drink every so often. And I will do it to be sociable. But it is weeks between a single drink if I have one. And I only do it because I’ll just try to do it tonight. And that’s it. We lived up near Napa for a while and so my wife and I would buy wine and that was always fun and but again, never any excessive amount. So a glass of wine, which can be healthy, but I’ve just never found the need to drink. Although I do like to tease. I always tell everybody I know that I feel bad for people who don’t drink because when they get up in the morning, that’s as good as they’re gonna feel for the rest of the day. I watch and listen to Dean Martin. I know these things.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 34:45
I’ll be Martin. Yeah. But
**Michael Hingson ** 34:48
but you know, just you really can’t cover up. Whatever is going on. If you don’t deal with it, then it’s only going to hurt you and I’m glad that at least for a while. While she was able to and here it comes again. Talk about it, which is what helped? Yes.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 35:06
Oh, for sure. And, and she was grateful for the opportunity that we have, we’re allowing her the space to, it really helped us all on our healing journeys, because we gave her the space to talk about it, and to say, not as an excuse of why she was drinking, and why it was so difficult for us as children, but reasoning that we were at least able to take a step back from our pain and say, Oh, now we get it. Now, now we understand, again, not an excuse doesn’t excuse the behavior, things that had happened. But we were, we were able to say, oh, okay, in kind of like just a real quick little segue, when I did my forgiveness work with the bank robber that had held the gun in my head, and then later pulled the trigger and murdered Marsha Berger. I remember doing healing work with him, after he had died in prison. And I wrote him a letter of forgiveness. And but what I thought to myself was, he and I were both born these innocent little creatures, these these little babies. And it was just somewhere along his journey, he chose to go down a path that would eventually across mine, but his past was, was filled with choices of drugs and booze and, you know, horrors and murder and the bad things that he chose to do. And mine wasn’t. But in looking at him, as like this, this little being this little light that came into the world, I was able to, that’s how I was able to do my forgiveness work with him. Again, it didn’t excuse his behaviors, but I was able to say, I don’t know his trauma history. I don’t know what his life was, like, I don’t know, the horrors that he had maybe endured? Yes, he, he made very poor choices. But I don’t know his story. So it really helped me to be able to let
**Michael Hingson ** 37:19
him go. But at the same time, there’s only so much that you can do because the bottom line is he did make choices. He did do what he did. And you can’t and aren’t going to fix everything yourself. People need to learn to do that for themselves. And it’s too bad that the bank robber person didn’t do that. But But look at you, you know, you came out of it. And I think it’s absolutely appropriate to forgive him for what he did. It doesn’t condone it. But again, holding grudges doesn’t help either.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 37:55
No, that’s a heavy negativity to carry around the no I, again, I’d rather enjoy life and all the beauty that surrounds us, instead of carrying him and his weight with me.
**Michael Hingson ** 38:12
Did you? Well, I’ll ask the first part of the question this way. So when did you and your mom or when did you decide that you and your mom could be friends?
**Teri Wellbrock ** 38:25
She’s so cute. I miss her so much every day. It was after those three months, when she had I had walked away from her. And my phone would ring on occasion. And I wouldn’t answer because I was just done. And I knew it was her and it was in the evening. So I knew she had probably been drinking. In one evening, my phone rang. And for whatever reason, again, I call them Angel Angel was something said, go ahead and answer it. And I did. And it was her and she said she remember her nickname for me was Titi Hi, Titi Hey, I dropped something behind my dresser and I can’t get it. And I’ve been trying to try and try and and I said, Mom, do you need me to come help you get it out from there. And she said, that would be wonderful. And I said, all right. I’ll be right down, hopped in my car went down, got it out. And then I sat on her couch. And she proceeded to tell me, I’ve been seeing to therapists we’ve been talking about everything I went through in my childhood. I not drinking anymore. And she just and I said oh my gosh. For the first time in her life. She’s trying. Yeah. And that was the moment that I said, okay, even if she fails, even if she falls flat off on her face off that wagon. She has trying and that was it like right there that told me that she cared enough about herself about us to try.
**Michael Hingson ** 40:07
Yeah. And you know that that was a good start, unfortunately, something else came along that diverted her. And it’s too bad that, that she allowed that to happen. But again, it’s choice. And I think we all I know when I think about my life, and I spent a fair amount of time thinking about my life. And one of the things that I think about a lot is all the choices that got me to where I am, and I and I know what the choices are that I made. That led to me being where I am, and in the circumstances I am in, I know the positive ones or the negative ones, and I, I enjoy my life, I enjoy me, I know that there are things that if I had done them differently, might have left me with more money after my wife passed away. After being married for two years, but you know, it’s all about, we really should understand the choices that we make. And it’s important to think about that as much as we can, and use that to help ourselves grow.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 41:10
Oh, definitely. And, you know, I remember my mom saying that to me, she came down here to Hilton Head after we had moved and stayed for a week in her talking about that exact thing about not being not realizing that even 8485, whatever she was at that time, I think she was 85 when she was here how she was still learning in being able to grow. And I just think that’s the coolest thing in the world was this 80 something year old, who was willing to do the hard work, she was willing to do the healing work. And so that’s why one of my favorite hashtags long before any of this happened was always hashtag never give up. Because that was my motto in life. Never give up. Like, just keep going get back up again. And here she was in her 80s doing it.
**Michael Hingson ** 42:03
And I personally hope I’m always a student in five to sudden suddenly decide I’m not learning anything. I don’t need to learn anything else. And I’m the bad the worst part. I won’t say I was gonna say the better for it. That won’t work. I’m the worst for it.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 42:17
Right, right. No, I love learning. Again, if it comes across my radar, especially in Trauma Recovery, I’m like, oh, let’s try it. Let’s see what this
**Michael Hingson ** 42:26
does. You mentioned tapping before what is that? So
**Teri Wellbrock ** 42:31
EFT or emotional freedom technique, and that that’s been used that comes up a lot in Trauma Recovery conversations. And it’s, it’s a very what I call non invasive, meaning you don’t necessarily have to go back to a traumatic event. So you can say, like, one of the remnants of mine was a fear of open spaces, because during that second bank robbery, I was trapped behind a house with an armed gunman to my right, I didn’t know his gun was misfiring and an armed gunman to my left, who was firing his gun at police officers in a parking lot. And so I had to choose between death and death, like which direction do I go on? And so and I was out in the open, so it was, again, a fear of open, like being trapped in open spaces. And I so lost my train of
**Michael Hingson ** 43:18
thought, Well, I was asking about tapping, but go ahead. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 43:23
So so we will go thank you for redirecting me. So we would go not necessarily like people can go not necessarily to that trauma that because they may not know what’s come why they’re having what’s bringing up maybe a fear of open spaces. So you could go to oh, I’m sitting on a beach, and I’m having all of this anxiety, my legs are tingling, my I’m having the urge to run, I feel like I need to hide and I’m, you know, my eyes are darting around looking for, like, where’s the danger. And so tapping with that is it’s a process that you walk through, and again, I’ve done it. And so I’m not a practitioner, so I’m not going to do this justice, but it’s a process of, of talking to yourself about that particular feeling. And then tapping on different parts of you’re in, there’s a whole there’s a whole system to it, it’s like you know, in between your eyes next next to your eye, under your under your eye, under your nose, on your chin, your collarbone like there’s different like look like a monkey like under your armpit. And so and you walk through this entire process, and again, it’s it’s a matter of disengaging the the emotional attachment to something the event or, again, whether it’s the trauma event itself, or the sitting out on the beach in a wide open space and what’s coming up with that, if that makes sense. It does.
**Michael Hingson ** 44:59
I’m with you. I understand. It is fascinating. And it’s a fascinating all the different techniques that that are developed some work better with some people than others. But we’re doing so much to try to get people more engaged in. And I hope that people will do more of it because it helps a lot. Oh,
**Teri Wellbrock ** 45:22
I tell you what somatic healing came across my radar recently. And I was terrified to fly by myself. But my mom was so sick and in hospice, and I knew I had to hop on that flight. And I had to go, I had to go be with her. And somatic healing had come across my radar. And that was for me this particular somatic because there’s various ones, I was placing my hand on a body part that I was feeling a lot of adrenaline surge and tingling. And I placed my hand and I would just say, I’m here, I recognize what are you trying to tell me, and you were safe. And so I would walk through, but it was recognizing these body parts that were very active, very alert, the energy was just, you know, tingling. And I did it when I got onto that flight. And I could feel my right arm just just for whatever reason, my right arm was just on fire, like, with energy. And I just was very gentle, very gentle with myself and just talked myself through it. And it was with me, and with the sensations, and then they just dissipated. And if they started to arise, again, I just put my hand back on and say, It’s okay, I’m here with you need, what do you need? And now I, I mean, I had to go back and forth from my mom quite a bit. And now I’m just like a regular old traveler, hop on that flight and go. So it was awesome. But But again, I love what you say, there’s so many different modalities and some work some days and but fill that toolbox. People feel that toolbox.
**Michael Hingson ** 47:06
Yeah, that’s what it’s about. I mentioned and ask you about your mom being your friend. And if you guys got to be friends, tell me more about what you think about friendship in connecting with with other people and soul connections and so on.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 47:20
Yeah, that goes back to what we were talking about before of sharing our truths of authenticity, which I think you are certainly an incredibly authentic person, when you come across. There’s just the soul connection that happens when you when you just meet that person that’s authentic. And I certainly put my truths out there and try to be like, Hey, this is me, this is what you get. And there’s incredible power in being brave enough to be vulnerable, to be brave enough to put our truths out there and say, This is what’s happened to me, or this is what I believe, or this is who I am. And when that happens in you’re brave enough to do that. It’s incredible. The gifts that will come to you through connection, and the people that will come across your path. And it’d be I don’t know, moved inspired to connect with you. Yeah, it’s a gift. Truly, it’s a gift for yourself, but it’s a gift for others, because it allows them then the opportunity to say, oh my gosh, me too. When I started putting my truths out in Facebook world, when I first started to say, I can’t do this anymore, I have to set it free. And I started to put tidbits out about what I experienced in my childhood and my early life, I would get private messages or texts or phone calls from people that would say, I’ve never told anyone before, but and then they would open up and they would talk and they would share. And so it gives people it gives other people the opportunity to to share their truths,
**Michael Hingson ** 49:08
which helps you be able to say, which we’ve talked about a little bit, I get it or me to hashtag me too. And why that is clearly so important. Because if you can create that kind of a connection. And the issue, of course, is it’s got to be genuine. Right? And and I think it’s pretty easy for most people to tell if you’re really sincere or not, but it’s so important to be able to do that. Yes,
**Teri Wellbrock ** 49:36
well, that’s that authentic piece. So you know, it’s just again, I’ve become such a fan of energy and energy exchange, and there’s just the certain people that you meet it’s more often than not I meet beautiful souls, but every now and then you just meet the person that I am now I’m just like, nope, nope, that not this is going to be a big hold no for me and just gently walk away because it’s not there. It’s not real. And maybe that’s, you know, a gardening thing that they, they’ve been through trauma, and they have up these walls, and they’re trying to be something that they’re not. But I just know enough for me to walk away from it. So, yeah,
**Michael Hingson ** 50:20
yeah. Well, what if I think you’ve talked about this some, but you’ve obviously adopted some strategies and coping skills that really help you. And you also talk about them, which is great. So you’re, you’re a great storyteller, which is important. But what are your favorite coping strategies and strategies that you use, that you also do share with others about? Hopefully helping them to move forward?
**Teri Wellbrock ** 50:47
Yes, well, I would say my biggest is mindfulness. But I’ve also incorporate that. So it’s practice I literally put it on my calendar, when he first started doing it. On my to do list, it was like, whatever it was edit podcasts and write a chapter and what whatever it was, and then it would, I would literally put mindfulness practice on my to do list for the day on my calendar. Because practicing it, then it was it was creating a new habit, it just became such a, such a part of my daily life that I just do it now without even thinking. But with that, it was one of my favorites is 54321 mindfulness, and that is using your senses to be in The Now. So not in the traumas of the past, and not in the worries of the future that are usually triggered by the traumas of the past. But right here in the now like, what can I appreciate the beauty right here right now. And so the five senses are so I’m trying to remember the order of them. But oh, gosh, listen for or look for five things. Now I realize I’m talking to someone that’s cannot see with your eyes. But
**Michael Hingson ** 52:09
let’s remember the dictionary says to see is to perceive there’s more to it. It’s not the only game in town. It’s fair to use. That’s right,
**Teri Wellbrock ** 52:17
right. All right, good. Because once we get past five, which is the using your eyes, to look for things, it’s using your ears to listen. And that one I love. That’s my favorite. So it’s sitting very quiet in really closing my eyes and trying to find the bird. That’s the farthest away and see how far I can stretch my ears to hear something or listen to what’s truly going on. Oh, I hear someone is mowing their grass, however many streets away and I hear a dog barking. And then three is touch in just using it to describe it in tremendous detail. Like, oh, I’m touching this leaf and it’s got some bumps on it. And it’s it’s soft on the underside, though. And so it’s really just using mindfulness to bring ourselves into this moment. And being able to then use some breath work to calm our bodies and just really just be here in the now. Nature. I use nature baths a lot. And so I incorporate all of that together. And then those are three things right there mindfulness, Nature Bath. And the other one that just flew out of my head. But but those are those are three of my favorites. Nature’s of nature is very healing for me. I do have a story to tell you. That’s very powerful. And so meditation and mindfulness, I was gone up to the little beach in our neighborhood. And I was very, very, very sick with mycotoxin poisoning. After moving into this house. The house had been filled with toxic mold and been condemned, but they lied on the disclosure and didn’t tell us in the House have been rehabbed. So it looked gorgeous. But lurking behind the walls was a lot of mold. And it made me very, very ill and so I was I had lost 58 pounds. I had a rash all over my body and my throat was closing up with foods like it was very bad. So I gone up to sit on the speech and was praying and crying. Prayer is another one that I use in really meditating in meditative prayer and asking God universe angels, Holy Spirit, whoever’s listening, whoever’s here and around listening. If you could please, please, please give me a sign that I am on the right path with this healing journey, and that I’m going to make it through this. And I, my eyes were closed and I said, if you could just send me some big news neon sign like some dolphin would be great. Some, they’ll call them dolphin of hope. And if you could just just send them across my path. And so I said, Alright, Dolphin, I’m ready for you. And I opened my eyes. And when I did what I think was 20 Dolphin fin popped out of the water right in front of me, it was probably for a dolphin that just kept, you know, coming up and going back under again, but, and I stopped crying. Because to me, it was so powerful in being connected in that moment and just allowing this. I had a no miracle this, this answer to come to me in welcoming it. And it did. And I knew in that moment that I was going to be okay. And that. Yeah, somebody was listening.
**Michael Hingson ** 55:51
Well, there you go. And you got your sign, which is all you can ask for. What do you mean by mindfulness?
**Teri Wellbrock ** 55:59
Mindfulness is, to me, I don’t know if it’s the definition that the practitioners use. But for me, mindfulness is being mindful. So very purposefully connected with the now meaning this moment. So if I were, like, I could say, oh, I’m looking at this blue light on my camera. And I love the color of the blue. And I would, and I would be very attentive about that particular blue, and then say, oh, my gosh, Max is in my lap. And he keeps trying to lick my hand, and it’s tickling my fingers. And so, and it’s funny. And so I’m rubbing his little belly, and then like, Oh, I love his little soft belly. So I’m talking to you. But meanwhile, I’m being very attentive to the fact of all of these things that are happening right here in the now. And so for me, that is mindfulness and being very present. Your awareness moment, this very beautiful moment, I’m having a wonderful conversation with another beautiful soul. And, again, holding Maxie on my lap.
**Michael Hingson ** 57:14
Well, and I told you about our cat, and I have not heard my cat once yell at me during all this. So she must be fed up for the moment anyway. All right, which is a good thing, which is a good thing. If you could reach as many people in the world as you wanted, who would you want to reach most?
**Teri Wellbrock ** 57:34
Oh, gosh, I would say trauma survivors that have gone through. Not that, not that it’s a trauma race, I, you know, I want to say if four or more have an ACE score of four or more, which the ACES its adverse childhood experiences. You can you can do a score. So it’s like, where your parents divorced? Did you experience physical abuse? Did you experience sexual abuse, so you give yourself a point for each of these different things on the score of zero to 10. But those who do have a four or higher there, they just tend to struggle that much more with so many different things, from addictions to again, physical ailments, and so forth. So that’s my, that’s my target audience, really, because I’ve lived it. And I want to tell all of them, no matter what you’ve been through, no matter what you’ve been through, you can reach this beautiful place of joy and tranquility, and be happy and love life. And yeah, no matter what you’ve been through, it’s okay. So
**Michael Hingson ** 58:54
as a person who has been very involved in psychology, and also podcasting, and so on, do you work with people all over? Or what do you do these days?
**Teri Wellbrock ** 59:03
Yes, well, my show, which I know is podcasts, you you probably watch these things, too. It’s been downloaded in 125 countries, top 2% globally by listen score out of 3.1 million shows. And I so that’s my sole work is to put these beautiful conversations out with healers from all over the world. I recently did a healer to Hilton Head series, with 20 Different healers in this area on island just to show even though it’s a global audience that look within your own community, and you’ll be amazed at how many options are available for healing and again, from somatic to, I did a salt cave, which was a lot of fun, you know, you sit in a salt game and so that was doing something here We work on my body. And, again, it’s fun to learn all of this and all of the different things that are available. I’m continuing to write my book, which is my memoir, but it’s teaching memoir. So it’s about lessons I learned along the way. And I’ve been writing that for 10 years, it’s been a work in progress. And I think my mom passing was that last little bit I was holding on. So it’s about 90%, complete. But she gave me her stamp of approval and said, Terry, it’s time. It’s time to put it out there. So I’m like, okay, good. I will, I will finish that up for you, Mama. So doing that I put out a monthly hope for healing newsletter. Yeah, so my, my, my mission really, is to just put messages of hope and healing out into the universe and share my story. I, I go on other shows. And we wrote a little children’s book called The doodle with the noodle about Sammy our therapy dog. And, yeah, that’s what I do.
**Michael Hingson ** 1:01:01
Do you do any coaching or create courses or anything like that? Yeah, I
**Teri Wellbrock ** 1:01:06
have some courses available. They’re still they’re out there, but still works in progress of working on those I’ve contemplated doing coaching. So yeah, that’s on my radar as well. monetizing the podcast. So there’s a lot of, I don’t know, I struggle with that one. Because I think, and again, I getting a lot of messages from other podcasters, who say, of course, you’re allowed to monetize your podcast. And it’s been Yeah, it’s a gift. But I don’t know, I still, that’s another work. I think that’s impostor syndrome, that’s one of the lingering things that I still still working through with all of the trauma remnants that I had worked through is thinking that my message is worthy.
**Michael Hingson ** 1:01:56
Let me let me tell you my view, as a speaker, as a keynote speaker, since the World Trade Center, and so on, I find that people who are willing to pay you for what you do, and who are not as interested in nickel and diming, you as really paying you and getting the benefit of what you have to offer are also much more likely to take seriously what you say I’ve had situations where people say, Oh, we only have like $1,000, we just can’t pay more, no matter how famous or how good or how intelligent you are, we’re just not ever gonna pay more than that. And they’re always the ones that are the hardest to work with, for a variety of reasons, because they don’t take it seriously. And even some of the times that I’ve agreed to donate my time, it can be a challenge. And they end up being more of a challenge than anything else. Because they think that you should be obligated to do this, as opposed to, they really appreciate and are willing to do what’s necessary to bring your knowledge and wisdom into whatever it is that they’re about. So, so much sense, I think there’s a lot of value in charging Well, or coming up with some monetization scheme for the podcast. It doesn’t need to be grossly hugely expensive. A person who does a podcast for just primarily about blindness and blind people, a gentleman in New Zealand named Jonathan mosun, has a podcast called Living blindly. And what he created was a subscription. And if you don’t subscribe, then you might get a podcast, you can actually get the podcast on a Wednesday, but if you want to get it earlier, then you subscribe by donating 99 cents, or $1 or $5, or whatever you choose. And I think he has a minimum for the year. It’s not expensive or anything, but then you get the podcasts the Sunday before everybody else does, which was clever, which is pretty clever. So he might you know, something to think about.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 1:04:11
I did. I did. Fractured Atlas is a sponsor. And it’s a fiscal sponsorship and you have to apply for it. Well, the healing grace podcast was accepted into it. And so it helps with fundraising and all of that. And so I did a fundraising campaign for the show because they said hey, you know, I pay for this out of pocket. I’ve been doing it five years. It’s not just a fluke that I’m out here doing this. And I was able to raise about $4,000 which was awesome because I bought a new nice nicer microphone and nicer camera, nice a laptop and so I was able to do some things to help Yeah, help make it that much better.
**Michael Hingson ** 1:04:52
See, there you go. Well, if people want to reach out and find you, how do they do that?
**Teri Wellbrock ** 1:04:57
They can connect through my website with says Teri Wellbrock.comand can you spell? Yeah,T E R, I just one R W E L L B R O C K, I always want to do the little rock symbol and I
**Michael Hingson ** 1:05:12
**Teri Wellbrock ** 1:05:18
Yes, yeah. And then the healing place podcasts you can find on Spotify and Apple and all your favorite audio outlets and YouTube. So very cool.
**Michael Hingson ** 1:05:28
Well, I hope people will reach out. I really appreciate your time and all of the valuable and invaluable insights that you’ve given today. It’s been a great story. And I very much really appreciate you being here and value. All that we’ve had a chance to do and we need to do it again.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 1:05:47
Oh, for sure is it’s just been such a joy again, I just I love you and your energy. And I appreciate you welcoming me into your space. So thank you for allowing me the opportunity to share my story. Well,
**Michael Hingson ** 1:05:59
thank you and I hope all of you out there liked what we did today. Please give us a five star rating wherever you’re listening and I would love it and I’m really appreciated. If you would reach out to me and give me your thoughts. Feel free to email me at Michaelhi at accessiBe.com. That’s Michael mi c h a e l h i at accessibe A C C E S S I B E.com. We’re going to our podcast page www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. And Michael Hingson, of course is mi c h a e l h i n g s o n.com/podcast. But we’d love to hear from you. We value it. If you know anyone else who ought to come on unstoppable mindset please let us know or give us an introduction. Teri, same for you. We would really appreciate any people that you can think of we ought to have on and again, I just want to thank you for being with us today. And let’s do it again soon.
**Teri Wellbrock ** 1:06:53
Absolutely. Thank you Thank you sending big hugs your way
**Michael Hingson ** 1:07:01
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.