Episode 170 – Unstoppable Employee and Entrepreneur Visionary with Robert Schott
I rarely have met someone who, throughout his life, has been presented with so many challenges but always moves forward with strength, poise, and vision. Robert Schott and I first met 27 years ago when Karen and I moved to New Jersey for a job. Robert immediately took a liking to both of us as we were asked to help our church, also the church Robert and his wife Erica attended, design wheelchair access both for Karen and others. As I got to know Robert I recognized that he was quite a determined individual who worked hard to bring success to whatever endeavors he undertook.
Robert’s story both in the work he has done for others as well as his own inventing mindset is well worth hearing. In fact, as you will hear, he has designed a new toy currently looking for a manufacturing home, but that already has been described as the first invention creating a new way of play for children.
If all of us ever encounter through these podcast episodes someone unstoppable it is Robert Schott. I hope his thoughts, life lessons and his enthusiastic mindset rubs off on all of us. His faith and his attitude really do show all of us that we can be more unstoppable than we think we can.
About the Guest:
Robert Schott has more than 40 years of business and employee communications design experience currently concentrated in employee benefits and retirement plans. With Charles Schwab Retirement Plan Services, Mr. Schott specializes in customizing people engagement strategies on financial literacy and to prepare his clients’ employees for their future retirement income needs. Pensions & Investments magazine recognized two of his recent projects with First Place Eddy Awards for superior achievement in Retirement Readiness and Financial Wellness communications design.
Mr. Schott help similar roles at Merrill Lynch Retirement Plan Services, J.P. Morgan/American Century Retirement Plan Services, J.P. Morgan Investment Management, and Coopers & Lybrand Human Resources Group.
Additionally, Mr. Schott founded and owns Bopt Inc., a consumer product development and sales company featuring two notable inventions, WOWindow Posters® and SprawlyWalls™. WOWindow Posters are translucent posters designed for illuminating Halloween and Christmas images in windows simply by turning on the room lights. SprawlyWalls is a build, decorate, and play system for children ages 5 to 11 to create play spaces for their dolls and action figures. The Strong National Museum of Play/Toy Hall of Fame recently included SprawlyWalls in its in-museum Play Lab.
Mr. Schott is a member of the Leadership Forum Community (LFC) which convenes to explore leadership challenges, develop conscious leaders, and create solutions that result in meaningful and equitable change in organizations, education, and society. He collaborated on the concept of ‘Conscious Dialogue’ presented at the LFC Summit in July 2023.
Notably, in 2019 and 2021, Mr. Schott participated in America in One Room, an experiment in Deliberative Democracy designed by social scientists at Stanford University to foster civil discourse on political themes by convening over 500 USA citizens for moderated discussions. In 2021, Mr. Schott’s community, Cranford New Jersey, recognized him with the annual Kindness Award for bringing joy to others through his massive annual front yard snow sculptures. In June 2023, he joined an expedition in Newfoundland Canada to search for a missing French biplane that would have beat Charles Lindbergh in 1927 for the $50k prize money had it landed in front of the Statue of Liberty coming from Paris.
Mr. Schott holds a bachelor of arts with honors in communication design from Rochester Institute of Technology. He completed a Mini-MBA certification program at Rutgers, Center for Management Development. He had previously held Series 7 and 66 licenses for his financial industry work.
Ways to connect with Tony:
About the Host:
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.
Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.
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Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.
Michael Hingson ** 01:21
Well, Hi, and welcome once again to unstoppable mindset. I am your host, Mike Hingson. And today, I get to really have a wonderful pleasure and honor to even introduce you to someone who I’ve known for a long time, Robert Schott lived fairly close to us when we lived in New Jersey, we lived in Westfield, New Jersey, but we both went to the same church, which is where we met, we met the shots and others became good friends. And Robert was a very good supporter of ours, especially helping Karen because if and when we started at the church, it was not very wheelchair accessible. And there were a lot of issues to try to make it more accessible. And Robert and others were really helpful in advocating and recognizing the value of that. So he’s become a great friend. He’s had associations with Rochester Institute of Technology and actually helped get me to do a speech there one. So Robert and I have known each other for a long time. Gosh, if we were to really go back and count, Robert, it’s since what 1996. So that is what 27 years long. I know. Welcome to unstoppable mindset.
Robert Schott ** 02:34
Well, thank you, Michael. And I appreciate the warm regard as friends that’s top of mind and you create helped create a fascinating part of my life. And Erica’s life, which we’re grateful for. And we were sorry to see you move west. But I know that was all for good things
Michael Hingson ** 02:53
are good things. But we still get to stay in touch. And yeah, and one of these days, I hope to be able to get back to New Jersey and spend some time with all of you, which would be good. So we’ll have to figure that out at some point. But for now, let’s let’s talk about you a little bit. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about as I love to do with the deepening of these things, the the early Robert growing up and all that sort of stuff and kind of what got you to where you are at least a little bit and then we can always go back and talk more about that. But yeah, love to hear some of the early Robert stories.
Robert Schott ** 03:30
Yeah, and cut me off when we need to pivot but okay, I’m cutting you off now.
Michael Hingson ** 03:33
Robert Schott ** 03:36
You’re funny, man. Yeah, go ahead. Well, in fact, I grew up in a town past Westfield, which was Fanwood nestled by Scotch Plains. I went to Scotch Plains Fanwood high school I was one of five children to two middle class English parents. My mom was the high school nurse where I was went to high school I had a hard time cutting class or calling out sick because she knew
Michael Hingson ** 04:02
my dad told us no anyway.
Robert Schott ** 04:05
Yeah, you know, my dad actually have pretty fascinating place to work. He was a lab technician on the brainiac floor at Bell Laboratories and Murray Hill that could go on and on about that but one little thing was the tech across the hall from him he had made the first transistor which set a whole lot of things in motion. But we we you know mom and dad were around dad would go down in the basement and do oil painting and I mentioned that for a reason I’ll tell you what, we were very involved in our school and activities band, I was a big into Boy Scouts. And all along the way I would became very interested in art. And that was I mentioned that was a fine art oil painter became professional grade but he taught me how to oil paint when I was seven years old and always made sure I was supplied with tools and gear. You know from what caravita oil painting in watercolor. So that became a nice side thing for me to focus on, which kind of fizzled out as a creative arts. But by the time I went to college, where I shifted to Applied Arts and what that what I mean is graphic design was my major at Rochester Institute of Technology. It’s interesting, I think about that decision. And when I was in junior high school, I made a proclamation to my family, I said, I don’t like TV advertising, I’m going to go into advertising and change it, I’m going to change the world of advertising. And so when I was studying schools, Syracuse University was, you know, one of the two that I narrowed down or it was the other. And I got to Syracuse, I would have been in New House School of Communication, which was more advertising and media focused, whereas it was more graphics and artistic focus. But the decision which was relevant for 18 year old was the ice rink at RMIT was on the way from classes. And if I went to Syracuse, it would have been a two mile train. So we make our decisions. It all turns out,
Michael Hingson ** 06:13
you my brother in law, is in Idaho, and for years was a master cabinet maker, he’s now more of a general contractor, but his winters were all controlled and covered by skiing. And in fact, in the winter, for many years, he as an Certified International Ski guide, would take people to France and do off piste, skiing and so on. But I understand exactly what you’re saying about the ice rink because he was all about skiing, and still likes to ski but he’s a lot older and doesn’t do the events. And he’s also got work in the winter. So responsibilities change, but I know what you’re saying.
Robert Schott ** 06:57
Yeah, I was. I learned how to ice skate on my backyard after an ice storm in 11th grade and I began playing ice hockey pickup with some friends and I had two years to get ready before college and I I actually made I got cut from the junior varsity team. But I said to the coach, hey, listen, I really want to learn this game. Can I can I come to all the practices? Can I come to the games and carry everybody sticks in the water? He said sure. And so I didn’t miss a practice and mid season. I guess enough guys got hurt or quit. Or I showed progress. He put me on in a game. He gave me the last minute of a game. And the only thing I was able to do was when I jumped over the boards the puck was coming by. And so as the opponent, I just put my hip out and I gave the guy a hip check. He went flying and the game was over. So he said, Yeah, you’re qualified. We need you for the next game. Like I had, I had two goals and three assists and eight games. So I actually was a producer.
Michael Hingson ** 07:55
Well, it’s always better to be a producer than not needless to say. So what was your actual major then?
Robert Schott ** 08:03
Well, it was called Communication Design. And it was focused on communicating through graphic arts, and largely the two dimensional realm of graphic arts. And I was a high achiever in my classes, mostly A’s and what I did some standout work. It led to a summer job at a welding products company in the art department. And I remember getting rejected by Texas wiener hotdogs that summer. And then I went to this agency and as I was walking out the door, they because they said they had nothing for me, oh, here’s something Oh, you have to know how to type. So I said, Holy cow. I know how to type. My mom made me take typing in eighth grade. So I ended up in the art department, you know, go figure and I was using an IBM Selectric components, not yet knocking out, you know, graphic text writing with that, that early typesetting machine. And so it was a great and that summer job. One of our one of our vendors would come in and pick up work and he ended up at the end of the summer saying come work for me when you graduated. I help you with your homework for the rest of the year.
Michael Hingson ** 09:16
God does provide doesn’t teach Oh, it’s pretty funny. Yeah, there you go. So you graduated when did you graduate?
Robert Schott ** 09:25
That was 1981. Okay, then I was really busy student you know, between a little bit of ice hockey and academic word, the artwork was very time consuming. And I also was a pretty high level student leader in on the campus and that led to some pretty fun things too. So I was pretty harried, you know, really had to burn the candle on both ends a lot of the time. But in 1981, I had that job offer, which I took and it was he they put me on the artboard to Do graphic arts and there was a small boutique, there was a dozen people doing business to business communications, which included business slides, industrial videos, other graphics and advertising materials. And it turned out I was, I was actually not very good as an artist on the board on demand, you know, I was a good student, but it didn’t translate. And so getting into the thick of it, they went into computer graphics, there was a machine called jet graphics that allowed us to make business presentation slides, instead of using the old graphic art, code Iliff and other kind of build your slide business that way. And they put me in charge of them. And within three years, we had seven of these machines in two locations running around the clock, seven days a week. And it was a grind, if I may think I really, I discovered the limits of the physical limits of sleep deprivation, which is not a healthy thing, but I did it. And that’s what was probably the first thing I ever became an expert at in the country may be further making these slides and supervising and training, you know, a team 24/7.
Michael Hingson ** 11:21
So how long did you stay there? So this was after college? Right?
Robert Schott ** 11:24
Yeah, so I was there for seven years. Wow. Okay. And I mentioned one thing about a large part of my career was in reflection, I’m trying to coach my own young adult children don’t fall into the same trap. Maybe I didn’t really have the aspirational goal in my mind, like when I did when I was in junior high school. But what I did do was accept the next job that somebody offered me. One because I was ready to leave and two was a good job offer. But it didn’t. After doing that three or four times it didn’t ever really align with where maybe the root of my skills or passions lay. So a lot of years went by just, you know, three, seven year stints to say, Yeah, I’ll take that job and, you know, going to have children, I need a professional job, and I needed benefits. And, you know, I took my I took my eye off the market, what I was really maybe meant to be
Michael Hingson ** 12:28
right. So you say you went off and you took other jobs. And so where did you end up?
Robert Schott ** 12:36
So the sequence was I left? We were doing business slides for the Coopers and Lybrand can see accounting and consulting firm and I was making the earliest of its kind slide presentations for 401k plans in the middle early 80s. And from that, I got to work with Coopers and Lybrand. You know, my first job was working with Coopers and Lybrand. And they said, why don’t you come over here, because they liked what I was doing producing the record on case stuff. So I learned how to be an A Communication Consultant, the full gamut it was writing and directing and strategy at Coopers for their human resource advisory group clients. And sure enough, in the 401k plan at Cooper’s they had JP Morgan investment funds. And that when they brought those funds in, I got to know the funds. And we communicated to 20,000 people about those funds. And eventually, JP Morgan said, why don’t you come work over here? There you go. So I went over there. And you know, each time I was still have a relationship, or I left, which was, you know, kind of unique.
Michael Hingson ** 13:44
But good. She kept a positive relationship,
Robert Schott ** 13:47
no burn bridges. It was natural for me to move on. And the Morgan thing was in your marketing grew up helping to communicate the value of these types of 401k plan funds that other companies would put into their 401 K plans. So it was kind of there that I moved into another role where they formed a partnership with a company called American century. And we formed a partnership in retirement plan servicing and I moved over to that side of the business. But things didn’t really go very well, after a while and I was getting frustrated with the work environment and the work I was doing. That’s what led to the spark of doing something different.
Michael Hingson ** 14:36
So you, you decided you really needed to do something different than working in those kinds of environments. And did you have an idea of what you wanted to do and where you were going to go?
Robert Schott ** 14:46
Well, it it’s interesting, because, you know, there was no there was no real physical track to making Something happened that would put me in a new place. But there was a seed to have an invention idea I had to pursue. And that was really the mission. Can I take this idea? Get it further, far enough along? And then then from there, it was the idea, could I license it to a big manufacturing company? And so the inspiration was in a day of wallowing in my corporate anxiety, I went upstairs. And you remember my daughter, Carly, she was seven years old and 2000 2001, I think it was. And she was playing a certain way with her Barbie dolls. She was making rooms to play with her dolls across the floor with cardboard bricks. And I just went up to watch her play. That was my relief release. And I said, Hey, Carly, I wonder if a toy exists, where you can build walls. And you don’t have to, you know, I can get something official that it was a Sunday afternoon. And I said, What, hey, let’s go downstairs and draw what this toy could do. So seven year old, Carla and I went downstairs and we started drawing this idea of connecting walls to make dollhouse rooms. And I said to her right there, okay. This is all I need to know that this is something I have to pursue. And I’m going to work really hard to make this get this product made for you. And that’s what kicked off the inventions probably was back then.
Michael Hingson ** 16:30
So basically, though, were you working for someone else at the time? Or Did Jesus decide to do this full time? Or how did all that work?
Robert Schott ** 16:37
Yeah. So initially, I was still working at JP Morgan investment. And at one point, I got laid off. Another fell out that they were rejiggering things. And of course that happens. But they gave me a generous severance package. And I said, Oh, holy cow, here’s my moment. I’m going to go full blast on this toy idea. So I’ve been working on it for a year. Now I had this open time, with some, you know, compensation to cover my expenses, and then went hard at it. Now in the meantime, I was anxious. So I ended up pursuing five other part time things. I got a benefits consulting job, and I was dabbling with these other things that were really distracting and, frankly, the ability debilitating because I couldn’t get anything to stick to make additional money. And and to have the free time to work on a toy.
Michael Hingson ** 17:34
That totally Sarika doing.
Robert Schott ** 17:37
She can. She’s been working ever since you’ve known her in occupational therapy,
Michael Hingson ** 17:42
since she continued to work. Yeah. So
Robert Schott ** 17:46
yeah, I mean, I had the severance. So that was key. But I also didn’t know if I was going to have another job at the end of it. So I had to continue thinking about how to make money if the toy thing doesn’t, you know, come to Canada really fast. But in that period, I really refined the concept I filed for design and utility patents on the mechanical element of the walls, the way they would connect together. I created a logo and branding and I created a packaging design. I made prototypes, dope models for the kids to play with Ram focus groups with groups, a little kids, and all the proofs of this really cool thing we’re coming through. And through. You know, a friend of mines likes to say it’s, it’s not serendipity or accident or luck, it’s intentionality. And when you have really crisp intentions, some things kind of can just happen and out of the most unexpected places. And that that happened, I ended up getting a meeting with Hasbro, a college friend of mine, and it was like the Tom Hanks at Hasbro. He had a lab where he’d make stuff for the inventors. So I said he introduced me the creative guy. And they said, Yeah, if we really liked your idea, but it’s not really for us, at least not at this time. And we back up a second when I was in the outplacement Center at Morgan, a former client then friend said hey, talk to this guy, John, John Harvey, and he’ll coach you on your transition because he started a free coaching Transition Network out of Maplewood, New Jersey. So I called John and he said, what do you what do you really want to do? And I said, Oh, I really want to make this toy. He said to me, Hey, listen to this. Three months ago. I was at a think tank session. I might get the details fuzzy here, but it was the heads of innovation from Nike, somewhere else and Mattel and when you’re ready, I’ll introduce you to the head of innovation at Mattel. And so after my Hasbro meeting I called on Joe It said yeah. And he made the introduction and through another couple things. I got to make a meeting with the Creative Director for Barbie at Mattel, the biggest toy brand on Earth, and I got an hour. That’s what I left the building that the young lady said, I know you got it in here because people like you don’t. To Joe told you stuff about Barbie probably shouldn’t have because, you know, it’s proprietary, but he really liked what she came up with. And I’ll share that walking out of that building was the singular highest moment, work moment of my life. And nothing is taught that yet. Even though the deals didn’t turn out, just the sense that I made an impression to this big company, as a novice said, Man, I really ready to I’m really able to do something different.
Michael Hingson ** 20:57
So you have When did you have the meeting with Mattel?
Robert Schott ** 21:01
That was the late spring of 2003.
Michael Hingson ** 21:05
Okay, so that was always ago that was 20 years ago? Yeah. 20 years. And but did you have a basic conceptual design? Or did you actually have a model at that point?
Robert Schott ** 21:17
Oh, yeah, I had the prototypes, I had play models, you know, everything was, you know, in a condition that was acceptable from a toy inventor for a big company to take it on. And I didn’t make any errors about what I anything beyond what I knew what I did. I didn’t say I knew how to price it or manufacture it, or anything like that, which other toy inventors would have known more about. But, you know, no deals came through and I solicited all companies, you know, Lego and connects, and I went to FAO, Schwarz and Toys R Us and all in fact, the last meeting I had was with the head of brands at Toys R Us that was through an acquaintance, a friend of mine who I worked with in my first job out of out of school, he introduced me the head of brands, and I met there and Susan said, Oh, Robert, I really really liked your idea. I can’t work with you. Because it’s not real yet. You know, I need to be able to product to put on the shelves. But go back to Mattel tell them they’re not they got their heads in the wrong place. Because this is what we need on the shelves. And I’ll spare you the EXPLAIN of that. What was that? So, you know, here’s another validation from the biggest toy distributor on earth without my concept. And crazily I just kind of got burnt out and I need to get a new job and I let it go. I just had to let it go for a while.
Michael Hingson ** 22:41
So what did you do?
Robert Schott ** 22:45
Well, two things happened. One, the realization that I knew I could do something different, I thought about what else I had made around my home. And in fact, it was in the year 2000. For Halloween I had made out of hardboard and red cellophane giant cutouts of cat eyes that I hung in the Windows upstairs. And with a room lights on they lit up like a giant cat was looking at. I thought, holy cow. There’s an idea. Maybe i i figured i can get that done myself. I don’t need to sell the idea. I’ll just get after it. And so I worked on it for three quarters of a year. And then I talked to a friend. I remember you remember Brian Jenkins and Cindy Jenkins from the church. Brian was a printer by trade and I said Hey, Brian, what do you think of this idea. And in the same call, he said, Hey, I was just drawing a pumpkin that would light up to put in the window. And we agreed to go into business together. And it took us two more years to figure out how to make them. We ended up with a outfit in Green Bay, Wisconsin that agreed to work with us. And a little thing that I learned along that way was never, never, never admit your deficiencies on something always present yourself as confident and professional. And they this big company that served enterprises like Procter and Gamble allowed us to come into their space and dabble with manufacturing this printed window posts around big wide plastic sheets on 150 foot long printing press. And we pulled it off, you know we made a poster that that worked. So now I said there was two things. That’s one track and I’ll tell you more. But at the same time I needed to get back to day job with income and the fellow that I got laid off with from Morgan said, Hey Robert, I saw a posting for that’s made for you and it was with Merrill Lynch and I put my resume into the black hole. And the next day I had a call that never happens. And three days later, I had an interview. And remember the second part of that interview that the hiring manager took me back to the first interviewee, or, as she said to the first, the second one, Hey, give this guy an offer yet. So it was a slam dunk, I got back to work, right at the end of my 15 month severance. So that all kind of worked out nice.
Michael Hingson ** 25:29
But you did keep on dreaming, which is part of the whole story at first, which is great, but you did go back to work. And that works for a little while, at least while Merrill was around.
Robert Schott ** 25:40
Yeah, well, kind of they never really went away. They took up, you know, partnered up. But I worked there for, I think, six years. And this is how you can do things sometimes in life that are, it’s creative thinking. And I said to the boss, hey, look, I had a bunch of bad things happen with the poster business after we had a tremendous start, you know, we, we ended up in three years with a million and a half dollars of sales. And we were getting attention by the biggest enterprises in consumer, brick and mortar stores. But then, sadly, Brian passed away in 2009. And I had to take on the whole thing myself. And I approached my, my boss, I said, Look, I gotta leave, you know, I gotta work on this. And she said, Well, why don’t go so fast. We need you here. How about if we give you a reduced hours, but still keep you on benefits? I said, that works. So I went from 70 hours a week to 40 kept my bike benefits. And then I worked another 40 a week on the
Michael Hingson ** 26:44
poster business, back to sleep deprivation.
Robert Schott ** 26:47
Yeah, well, that was easy street from earlier years. So I did that for another year. And finally, I said, No, this isn’t going to work. And I cut out and I worked on the poster business full time for five years, which was had diminishing returns, the world was changing. And there’s a lot of obstacles that I had overcome. Amazon was starting to come into play in the big box store, the big Oh, my wholesale accounts were drifting away, and it was just a mess. So I ended up going back again, through fellow I worked with at Merrill said, Hey, come work for us. And I won’t get into that, because it’s my current work. But that’s, that’s where I’ve been for seven, eight years. Now. It’s the next corporate gig.
Michael Hingson ** 27:41
Things that I react to. And the most significant to me is no matter what with all of the job changes. I don’t know that I would say all of it’s not like there were such a huge amount, compared to some people who can’t hold a job, you moved from place to place. But one of the things that I find most striking is that you kept really wonderful relationships, wherever you went. And whenever you left, you continue to have relationships. And that’s been very supportive for you, which I think is really cool. A lot of people don’t do that and burn too many bridges, which is unfortunate.
Robert Schott ** 28:21
Yeah, thanks for recognizing that I, I hold friendships or business acquaintances from all the roles I had. And I’m, you know, happy about reconnecting with people and reminiscing. But they’ve also come into play. Over time, what at different points, I’d reach out and say, hey, you know, I know you’re doing this now. But that was, you know, there’s a 40 year relationship from that first a few of them that I’ve been able to go back to currently and say, Hey, let’s talk about this thing I’m working on.
Michael Hingson ** 28:55
And there must be ways that you’re obviously benefiting and helping them as well.
Robert Schott ** 28:59
Oh, sure. Yeah, absolutely.
Michael Hingson ** 29:03
Well, you know, clearly, by definition of what this podcast is all about, you are absolutely unstoppable. in mind, and so on. Give me a couple of examples in your own mind, or from your own perspective of how you’ve been on top of that, maybe a small one and a big one.
Robert Schott ** 29:20
Yes, that’s a good question. It was a couple of small ones that are more recent. I’ll just stick to the more recent because it’s shows I still have the ability to persevere, and it has a lot to do with a lesson my mom taught me was you always have to finish what you start. And I learned that you know, when I was five, six years old, you know, she wouldn’t let us quit something at school because we were unhappy or didn’t like it. We had to finish it. And so I got into for fun making big snow sculptures out in my front yard. And I’ve been doing in our town of Cranford for over 30 years and I did a MIT college and back in high school. Well, in 2020, it was 2021 There was a big blizzard. And I’d been waiting to do this particular snow sculpture of Abraham Lincoln, half scale. So half scale is for 15 feet tall. And I had gotten skilled enough to know how to prepare my drawings. And I built a wooden form to fill as the base. And we we had a convergence of things and I need one was a big snowstorm to it has to get warm afterwards because I mold and build. And I had to have the time. So this thing started on a Sunday afternoon. And as I got to do this, this, this is it. This is the moment of truth. And so from Sunday afternoon, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and then some nights after my work job. And then all day Saturday, I worked on Abraham Lincoln. And I realized that it was probably over six tons of snow that we moved. I spent 435 hours sculpting carving, and I had a bunch of helpers. And it was magnificent. And it attracted national media attention. And the beautiful part was it landed right on Lincoln’s birthday when I finished it. You have pictures? Yeah, I do. I have some good pictures of it.
Michael Hingson ** 31:23
Once we have a picture or an article, loved it featured in the podcast notes.
Robert Schott ** 31:27
Yeah, I absolutely send that. But here’s the kicker. And I didn’t tell a lot of people that week, that Sunday when I started, I had body aches and a fever. And I said, I have to do this. This is the moment of truth. Well, I didn’t find out till Thursday that I had COVID. I was climbing ladders and lifting snow six hours a day changing clothes three times because I was sweating so much. And I just it was so hard to get up in the morning and get at this thing, but I did it. So there’s, there’s I guess that’s a good example of a small thing. Getting it done.
Michael Hingson ** 32:04
Not sure it’s so small, but I hear you. And then once you said 14 feet tall,
Robert Schott ** 32:08
14 feet tall. Yeah. of Abraham Lincoln, nestled in his chair looking out from the Lincoln Memorial. Right. So that’s, that’s an unstoppable, I’d say, you know, pursuing the window posters is an exciting things that I feel really proud of achievement, that I can look back on fondly and say I really got something good done there. And I think that, you know, the window posters I’ve been doing for, yeah, I’ve been working on it for 20 years 17 In business. And it’s, it’s been, it was wildly successful when we got going. And it’s had a lot of setbacks, and been losing money for 10 years. So it’s something that’s kind of weird, because I can’t even get out of it. You know, I couldn’t sell the business, I couldn’t sell the inventory. But I’m straddled with some debt from it. And from, you know, having things I just don’t want to throw away. Every year, it’s all online, and I sell them online, and I make make some money, just about is covering expenses now. So, back to unstoppable during the pandemic, I’ll say I had the good fortune of being able to cut out three or four hours a day of commuting to New York City. And I said, Alright, I gotta get this toy made. And I picked up this volleyballs again, and I I got serious about pursuing it to the finish. And to the act of that, you know, fast forward. Last November, I got product in hand. You know, I took it from further engineering, prototyping, manufacture, testing, then you fracturing, packaging, patent filings marketing. I’ve been working on its sale since last November. So 20 years later, you know, or more. It’s coming to fruition. Now, once
Michael Hingson ** 34:06
Robert Schott ** 34:08
let me add a point here. Because when I said I was gonna make the window posters, I said, Alright, I’m not giving up on the toy, but I’m going to make so much money from the window for posters, I can afford to make the toy pins some day. I just told you I was I’ve been losing money on the toy on the posters. But what I didn’t, what finally occurred to me a year ago was holy cow. I got a I got the value and benefit of experience from learning how to make a product bring to market to make the toy. So the the, the outcome was, I didn’t make a lot of money to make it but I earned a lifetime of experience to know how to make it. I think that’s pretty cool.
Michael Hingson ** 34:51
That’s worth a lot.
Robert Schott ** 34:53
Yeah. Yeah, let’s How do you make a barcode? I don’t know. Well, you have to figure it out. So every part of bringing your part like to mark it from scratch, has these learning hurdles,
Michael Hingson ** 35:03
you know, you go to the bar and you make it home.
Robert Schott ** 35:07
You go to the bar you drink, you talk to the guy next, know how to make barcodes. Or
Michael Hingson ** 35:15
it seems easy to me. Well,
Robert Schott ** 35:18
Michael, I was experimenting with making glow in the dark window posters. So I went to Green Bay to do a glow in the dark test. And just in my travels, I met three more people on the airplane in the airport and at lunch that day, who were in the glow in the dark business. So intentionality, you know, I talked about what I was doing. Oh, I do go to dark paint that will happen in one day.
Michael Hingson ** 35:47
As you said a lifetime of experience, which is something that is priceless.
Robert Schott ** 35:53
Yeah. I’ll put a cap on that one. I’ll say that, you know, maybe not financially. I haven’t blown it out financially. But I’m really rich for the experience.
Michael Hingson ** 36:03
Yeah, exactly what I’m saying. Yeah. Well, so what exactly is happening with sprawling walls then today?
Robert Schott ** 36:11
Well, I had envisioned, pursuing direct consumer through E commerce only and using virtual communities to help create viral interest in the modern way of exposing a product. And that’s not going like I envisioned this past nine months. It was disheartening to see one, even in a few years, how that realm has changed, and how much harder it is to get out, reach out and trade attention. And on a shoestring budget, you know, haven’t been able to engage at a higher level where people, you know, for 50 grand, they could help make that happen. But in the meantime, I was working with a person who was critical of me spending time on the idea of networking. And I said I’m because he was helped me think through some of the marketing stuff. And so I’ve gone up to ra T, I was invited to go to the hockey game, I’ll be in the President’s booth at the arena at the campus. I’m going I don’t know what’s going to happen, but I’m gonna make the trip us up my time. And he said, Why are you gonna waste your time showing something that’s not really ready for I’m going anyway, fella. So I went, and guess who was in the President’s booth. But I mentioned I was a student leader and are at, and the Director of Student Affairs who I became very close to in a lifetime friend, and eventually become number two, at RMIT, as the Secretary to the institute. And he was in that booth with his wife. And it’s like, holy cow. Well, of course, I brought my prototype. So I’m showing everybody in the President’s booth, my toy idea. And then Fred pulls me aside and says, hey, hey, Robert, and if you know this, but I’m on the board of directors at the strong National Museum of Play, and Toy Hall of Fame. If you want, I can get your meeting there. Like it was the perfect storm for networking, and meeting. So here, I had an hour with the chief curator of the National Museum of Play, and he’s been in this business for 35 years, who looked at what I was doing and said, Man, this is such a great story. And I think the trouble with you getting exposure with your product is because people don’t know what to make of it yet. In fact, Robert, you’ve invented a new category of play. As well, that isn’t that because he couldn’t think of a comparable to what I’ve created. And furthermore, they said, we’d like to bring this product into our life play lab, we’re in the side, the museum kids can come in and play with, you know, free play type of building toy systems and learn a lot from that. Yeah, so I think they’re putting it in there in a few weeks, in reality, and they’re also bringing my toy out in public outreach to children who have troubled circumstances, and may not have a environment where they live to be able to play. So they bring these children to places where they expose them to just pure play, just for the sake of playing in the creative collaboration that goes with that. So I’m grateful to be turning my product into something bigger than just me making a toy to sell but actually influencing young children.
Michael Hingson ** 39:49
But hopefully it will turn into a real product that sells which is always a good thing. But you know, one of the things that I react to keep thinking back on is house Bro, then had no interest in it with things like GI Joe and so on, I would have thought they would have been very interested in sprawie forte, but I guess
Robert Schott ** 40:08
it’s you, you’re spot on, you know, when I went to Hasbro, I didn’t come with just the Girl doll system. Right.
Michael Hingson ** 40:16
Robert Schott ** 40:17
I came with the Army system. So I brought my GI Joes and I had camouflage wall panels that connected together to make, you know, Fort scenes. But yeah, they didn’t see it that what they said was Well, that’s all good. And well, but, you know, boys like to build and destroy. So
Michael Hingson ** 40:40
that was a funny line. Yeah, especially well, yeah. All the way around. Well, you know, clearly though, everything that you’re doing, you continue to move forward. And you get sidelined along the way, sometimes from circumstances over which you have no control. But, but you still do, which I think is great. What puts you in keeps you in a mind frame of being unstoppable and just continuing to move forward? Because no matter what’s happened, you’ve had a lot of things that have been setbacks, and a lot of people would just be held back by that. But you’ve continued to move forward. And you’ve done it very intentionally and in very positive way. How does that work?
Robert Schott ** 41:27
Yeah, thanks, Michael. I’m gonna go back to the root of a painting I did when I was seven years old side by side with my dad. And it was an apple with a sugar jar on burlap. And he painted his version of paint in mind. And I remember getting it done and maybe didn’t reflect on it back then. But I reflect on it now that I created a piece of art that I can look at and enjoy. And we got that done together. And through the pursuit of art, the creative arts, oil painting, sculpture, watercolor painting, and other things. I find the greatest joy for myself looking at, if I can look at something that I did, or that someone else did, and see joy in it, and continuous enjoyment and keep coming back to it like a good movie, like the Wizard of Oz, I can watch that every time. To me that describes what art is that it has this appeal that you can continue to enjoy. And you don’t get there by not working at it. Right. So I think when I see something I want to do and get done, a need to see it finished, because I want to sit back and look at what I did it, you know, despite many obstacles, like with the window posters, you know, there was a storm that there was a hurricane that wiped out Halloween when winter and snow blizzard the next Halloween and then my warehouse got hit by lightning and all my product deliveries were late, my partner passed away and you know, all these things that just just bang on? Yeah, but you just got to keep going. So I think presently, like with what I’m pursuing, the side gig, if you will, I have this vision of what it would be. And there’s something bigger than I realized last year. But it’s so big that it overrides any doubt that I have or fear or even the skepticism of others. And even the regard for risking money on it, I come to realize that, you know, money saved isn’t helping me create and invest in in my own pursuit. So I’ve let loose let go and I don’t let it get me down. Like I would have, you know, 30 years ago.
Michael Hingson ** 43:47
So how do you view money today? Or how is your attitude about the whole issue of money changed? Both from the standpoint of you personally, but you’ve obviously been in companies that specialize in that stuff. So you must have a lot of ways to to answer that.
Robert Schott ** 44:02
Yeah. So it’s kind of a little funny contradiction. I teach a lot about saving for retirement yet I’m spending a lot of my retirement savings. I’m investing in my future is what I’m doing. You know, I discovered I had a to really make it happen. I had to use what I have with the belief that it will work out and I’ll be better off for it financially one day. Certainly, the cut three high end college educations at a time when I thought money was going to really be flowing from the window posters and my work. That was a drain as it is on anybody today, the way college expenses go. And then just trying to keep my head above water with the poster business. It’s been technically losing money. You know, just I’m resolved that this is my way to pursue something bigger in my life. And I’ll figure it out. I’ll just keep Working I have, I’m so resourceful and I have so many ways that I could earn money for the next 20 years, if I have to that, I just, I don’t like it that I’m in a spot. But I love that I feel hopeful and confident in my abilities.
Michael Hingson ** 45:15
But you’ve made the commitment to do it. And if it means that you’d have to put some things on hold for a while and do more mundane or more things that are not directly in line with what you want to do. Right, you’re going to get to do what you want to do. And you’ll, you’ll let some of the other stuff be a part of what you do to make that happen.
Robert Schott ** 45:36
That’s right. And I’ll just finish off on the Toy Story, if you will, I have two big events coming up. In the next month. I was accepted to a when he call it up a media showcase. I’ll be on Pier 60 in New York City on September 12. So by the time people see this, I might have been well past but the showcases of is for the best toys of 2023. And while I didn’t make the cut as a best toy, they accepted me to be present, which is I think a nice credit to that I’m recognizing what I have to be in the presence of major media as well as social influencers. And then I was also accepted on the last day of this year’s Toy Fair at the Javits Center in early October for Toy inventors day. So that didn’t come easy, either. I had to qualify. And I’ll be in front of major manufacturers to potentially come back to the idea of licensing the product. So I’ve got four tracks, I can sell direct to consumer, I can make the product and sell wholesale. I can pursue other avenues like homeschool and teaching networks and Montessori schools where play free play is the thing, or I could make a licensing deal. So all these are on the table right now and making some of those big opportunities happen.
Michael Hingson ** 47:06
Have you thought of doing anything like trying to go on to Shark Tank and showing this to the world through that?
Robert Schott ** 47:14
Oh, I’ve thought about it a lot. But I’ve also tried out for shark tank with the poster idea. And there’s a lot of reasons I don’t want to do that. A lot of reasons why I won’t do that is I won’t get into that. But I think I can pursue avenues through my own. Maybe I could put it this way. I’ve discovered how I can make tracks doing things. And I think maybe other people don’t think that’s their only avenue. Yeah. Success. And I don’t believe that for me. So that’s a there’s a good answer. Well,
Michael Hingson ** 47:51
and clearly in partisan businesses zine and you want to make it the way you want to make it. So it’s just a question out of curiosity, but it makes sense. You know, to, to at least ask the question, and you thought about it. Not that answers it, which is great. Yeah. The you continue to be resilient, about pressing through and finishing whatever you start. I think you’ve hit on it some but why is it that you are so firm at being able to press through and continue to work? What, what, what keeps you going? And always moving forward like you do?
Robert Schott ** 48:33
Well, you know, I think when you first introduced the idea of me being a guest, I had this theme in my head, which was real, that some bit of my career, I didn’t feel very interesting anymore.
Michael Hingson ** 48:49
What and I said you were interesting. Yeah,
Robert Schott ** 48:52
I know. But I’d go on vacation with four other families and these other guys were all entrepreneur, for Nouriel, I had nothing to talk about in my work life that would be of any interest at the dinner table. So it’s going to be interesting again, but anyway, I think it’s there was lessons growing up about endurance and achieving things, you know, I was a boy scout, and we we camped every month of the year, whatever the weather was, wherever we went so, you know, five below zero in a tent with no floor and a summer sleeping bag. You have to somehow get through that night and learn where your limits are in pain points. I made Eagle Scout at college I was in academics and sports and and student leadership and you know, I actually the one and only time I sought professional help was at school, the counselor to say I’m falling apart, you know helped me put my pieces back together again and the coaching I got there it was really valuable. You know, encourage anybody who’s feeling a bad spot to take it Then under the resources out there, and then that first job I had was 12 people. And it was all for one one for all, we were all the hats, you know, when when we move to a new building, they said, We’re gonna come in Saturday and work on the wiring together and this new building. So the boss was running out around teaching us how to do wiring, it wasn’t really legal, but that’s what we did. So you learn how to solve little and big problems. And nothing is an obstacle when you have that frame of mind. And so when I get stuck on a business problem with my side gigs, I hunt down the answer. And I find people who know the answer, and I get coaching and make alliances. And so there’s an answer to at all, it’s just matter how you pursue that. And the other part of that is, you can set up a business plan and say, These are the steps we’re gonna get done. But you can take yourself off of that anxiety by saying, I’m working on this thing to get done. And then the next thing or maybe three things at once, but I’m not going to worry about where it is two years from now, because I can’t do that I have to work on what I can figure out today. And I’ve gotten really good at that. And, you know, setting the expectation, like I thought I would be blowing up my product by June. And yet, most of it’s still sitting on the shelf. Alright, dial down my expectation, slow down, what I’m trying to get done, work on some bigger game things. And here’s the bigger bigger game, Michael, I want to make sure I get in a year ago, I realized that invented this toy. But then I discovered this world called free play. And I’ve been studying the meaning of what free play is it’s the definition is children given us a place to play and things to play with, that are non electronic. And without parental supervision. And sing alone or with a group or a friend’s day will discover how to keep keep an afternoon going through trying and failing and trying and failing and trying and succeeding and solving each other’s problems. And what I further learned is that there’s incredible power in the development of a child through this kind of activity. And there’s some important studies that Mattel and has done with Cardiff University and Melissa and Doug with Gallup, that are proving how children will mature with greater empathy and social skills, when time is devoted to free play versus playing by themselves or electronic play. And I realized I have a new direction that the bigger game is getting my toy out there. But helping children in their free play development
Michael Hingson ** 52:37
is part of what the museum really referred to when they said you develop the whole new way to play.
Robert Schott ** 52:44
Yeah, yeah, fits right in there with all of that. And so I’m becoming a student of that realm. I’m a novice. But I can see a third act for myself in pressing forward in becoming the leader or spokesperson in that model of play.
Michael Hingson ** 53:02
Some Yeah. So writing about it and getting some other things to help enhance your credibility would mean sense writing about it, speaking about it, as you said, and then going to places and talking about it would make sense. And that takes away a little bit from the toy, but maybe not. Maybe certainly something to explore.
Robert Schott ** 53:20
Yeah, I think it actually feeds the toy.
Michael Hingson ** 53:23
It does feed the toy, I think. Yeah. Which makes sense to do. Well, so for you. You, you continue to, you know, to move forward for you. What do you think about your journey now, as opposed to 20? Or even 30 years ago? Do you think your journey has really changed as your mindset changed? Have you changed?
Robert Schott ** 53:51
Well, you know, I’ve certainly learned a vast amount in pursuing nice things. And like you said, I’ve given up a lot of things to, you know, it’s hard to stay inside on a gorgeous sunny weekend, you know, doing bookkeeping, and accounting and inventory management for for things. But I think my motivation has never been hired to see something come to fruition. And my understanding of how important it is to our society is feeding that and to also know that I’m getting the attention of important players. And what I’m pursuing is gives me great hope. So I’m going to continue with my corporate life. In fact, I’m actually trying to shift that a little bit more to around the realm of Community Oriented financial literacy. And I may have opportunities where I work now, to make that my work. To take all I’ve learned over 40 years in financial education, and actually be out in the communities leading programming that’s a picture on anything for myself that could come around in a couple years where I am, but pursue the toy, pursue the Childhood Development theme. But personally, I’d like to free myself of the amount of work I’m doing, if I can make it financially viable. And get back to my basic artwork, I haven’t finished an oil painting last year, that got recognized with a second place in the Union County art show here in New Jersey. And I started that 140 years ago, I finished it last year, I want to create new things now. So I need to find the time to get back to my arts, work on some of my athletic ambitions and other crazy adventures, I have room in my system for off the wall things. So that’s, that’s where I’m at mentally and emotionally, so
Michael Hingson ** 55:52
well, and you continue to, to move forward, as I said before, which is, which is great, and you continue to clearly be as unstoppable as one can imagine. So what’s ahead for you?
Robert Schott ** 56:05
Well, immediately, it’s just keep doing great work and my day job, is that what you mean? And then just keep chipping away at the toy, you know, manage my expectation on the toy, keep finding avenues, because I can’t work on it full time. Just find out what I can get done. And but aim bigger, you know, I need to think for think for a while on what’s the best bigger hits that I can get to make it come really to life. And in fact, this morning, I prove the banner I’m going to bring to the media and the toy vendor showcase that illustrates the future of the toy. And what I mean by as I’ve got five phases of development, that take it from a single size eight by 12 inch panel that connects with others, to 16 different sizes, and four different palettes of colors. And eventually, mechanical elements like pulleys and levers and drawing and graphic applications to the panels and maybe even LED lighting. So I’m paying you to picture the future so others can see it with me, you know, I, what I’ve got today isn’t really describing what it could become. And I want to make sure people understand that.
Michael Hingson ** 57:19
Yeah, and I think as I said a minute ago, doing some writing about it really composing some things and putting it out in places might very well be helpful and actually lend a lot to credibility, I think people need to be drawn into your vision and why you can only do so much of that with an actual model of the toy, writing, talking about it, speaking about it, having slides that show it in action, whatever, I think those are things that will help pull people in to realize what visionary ideas you have. And it’ll be interesting to see what happens when it goes into the, to the free play area and the museum and how all that works. Yeah, and I because that’s gonna lend a lot of support to what you’re doing.
Robert Schott ** 58:10
I completely agree on the visibility through my own initiatives, whether you know, certainly joining you, but other situations like this I’m going to pursue, we’re going into a little higher gear on our social media, visibility of the product with examples and videos, and I’ve got social media influencers creating content. So I’m in a big content build phase, but I like the idea of the writing side. It’s right now it could be you know, reflections of what I’ve learned about childhood development and, and free play. And even though I’m a novice, I have something to say and point people to where they can learn more. In fact, when I, when I go to the Showcase, I’m putting up something into the showcase gift bag for all the media is going to include a rolled up window poster, and then two sheets that describe both products. And there’ll be QR codes that lead those who see my sheet, to the studies by Mattel, Melissa and Doug and a survey I’ve started on for parents to take to tell me about what their children’s play patterns are today. It’s an open survey and I’m encouraging all parents with children, four to 11 to complete it that helps inform me about what current children are doing and what they need next.
Michael Hingson ** 59:34
When can you get some photos of kids actually playing with the toys?
Robert Schott ** 59:38
I’ve got? I’ve got a bunch of photos new one came in today, but I probably have you know 50 or 60 photos and videos saying some videos putting some of that I would think past to be helped them Yeah, most importantly I want those that content from strangers. You know, I don’t want you know Exactly right. And there’s some beautiful things coming in Michael I, I did some street fairs in the spring. And I’m going to do one more in Cranford in October. And I set up a play space for the kids, I invite them to play. And the spirit of what I created shows up, you know, one kid joins in, and then three more come by, and then they’re all playing together, and they’re creating things. But there’s surprises like, I think they can build walls. But all of a sudden, this kid takes all the sticks that hold the walls together and makes a sword out of it. And another kid takes the walls and built a ramp down off the table with a structure that he engineered to run his cars down it. There’s all this innovation is what this is about. And the kids are showcasing it at the street fair. So I’ve got all those photos too.
Michael Hingson ** 1:00:45
That’s great well, and put them out. I mean, that’s those are all cool things. I want to thank you for being here. And I’m excited for you. And I’m excited by what’s going to happen. And I look forward to hearing more about it. So definitely keep us in your and on your email list. But one of these days, we’ll get back there to visit. But I really hope that it all goes well for you and that this will catch on soon, and people will start to get really excited about what you’re doing. And I agree, I think it’s really interesting that although you intended it as walls on the house, kids are doing a lot more with it and so much the better that they do. Yeah, future engineers.
Robert Schott ** 1:01:25
And you know, the, the key selling point about it, and a couple of them is that it integrates and connects to Lego. It connects with connects, you can put Avery removable papers that you run through your printer to make wallpapers and you can draw on it with Expo markers. And the best part is you can collapse it back down into the box in like no time flat. Parents love that you can put it away into a little box.
Michael Hingson ** 1:01:52
That’s not messy when you do that. No, just
Robert Schott ** 1:01:55
don’t think that the pick pick up the little clips because they hurt your feet just like little Lego. That’s fair. Yeah, Michael, thanks.
Michael Hingson ** 1:02:05
This has really been fun. Well, you’re absolutely welcome. And this has been great. I really appreciate that we finally got a chance to do this. And you need to come back in a little while and let us know how it’s going and tell us about the adventure because it clearly is an adventure. And I hope that you listening have enjoyed this. If people want to reach out to learn more about you what you’re doing and so on. Robert, how do they do that?
Robert Schott ** 1:02:28
Well, I just set up a new email address yesterday morning to Robert dot Schott S C H O T T at bopt Inc. It’s B O P T inc.com. And little funny there Mike, I’ll close with this. I named my company bopt because I was told it’s how I spelled my name when I was four years old. There you go. From Robert to Bob to Bobt But two weeks ago, I was going through a folder my mom left for me my drawings from when I was five. Just two weeks ago I saw these for the first time and I discovered I actually spelled my name B O P P T and my sister said, well don’t worry about it. Robert, you can just say Bobt is the nickname for the longer version B O P P T
Michael Hingson ** 1:03:19
so it’s Robert dot Schott or just Robert Schott. Robert dot Schott at S C H O T T at B O P T.com. Yeah, well, great. Well, please reach out to Robert. We’ve got some social media links and other things that are in the cover notes. Please send me a picture of Abraham Lincoln that will be fun to add in anything else that you want us to put in there. We definitely want to do and be supportive of you. And thank you for listening. I’d love to hear what you all think. Please feel free to email me Michaelhi at accessibe A C C E S S I B E. I can spell.com or go to our podcast page www dot Michael Hingson h i n g s o n.com/podcast. We’d love to hear from you. And Robert, for you and for you listening if you know anyone else who want to be a guest on unstoppable mindset. You’ve heard a lot of the stories that people tell you heard Robert today. We’d love to hear from you about people, you know, who ought to come on unstoppable mindset as well. So please let us know. Please give us introductions. We appreciate it. And so once more. Robert, I want to thank you for being here. And we really appreciate your time late in the evening in New Jersey. You get in the spring
**Michael Hingson ** 1:04:43
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.