Episode 167 – Unstoppable Forger of Men with Cartwright Morris
Our guest this time, Cartwright Morris, teaches young executives and leaders to live life as an adventure. He does this to help them learn how to gain true confidence in their personal and professional lives.
Cartwright didn’t start out himself as a very confident person. He will discuss his youth and growing up not really sure of life, where it would take him and what he was going to do with his future.
Eventually through circumstances, as so often happens with all of us, he discovers that he has a real gift of being able to help young men to discover how they can become better than they thought. He helps them to become leaders and confident. He will tell us things like the difference between confidence and arrogance. His discussion of what makes a good leader is invaluable for all of us to ponder.
I did ask Cartwright if his coaching programs today are strictly for men or does he coach women as well. No prejudice on Cartwright’s part. As he puts it, he stays mainly on his side of the bridge, but he has coached women and he does recognize that women, like men, are indeed forged or molded by life.
I hope you will seek out his podcast, “Men Are Forged”. I know I plan to go have it a listen.
About the Guest:
Cartwright Morris is a speaker and certified leadership development coach for young professionals in sales/management. He equips each individual to live life as an adventure and make impact through gaining confidence in selling and leadership roles.
He has worked with hundreds of emerging leaders in the US and abroad. He has spent over 12 years managing and developing leaders at organizations like Calvert & Associates, The Center For Executive Leadership, JH Ranch, and Heaven in Business in California. He has over 2000 hours of coaching and mentoring while becoming a growing thought leader on how to confront the unknown and navigate business and life with confidence.
Cartwright has developed his lifelong message into his keynote presentation and his 3 Month Coaching Program where he implements his framework for gaining confidence in the selling process, development of relationships, and everyday life. He hosts the growing podcast, MEN ARE FORGED. A podcast to empower men to be forged by their experiences, challenges, and hardships. Each episode shares the personal stories and insights from great men in business, family, and management who grew into leaders from their days of indecision and insecurity.
He spent much of his 20s and 30s living the single life as an adventure; traveling, exploring new places, meeting new people, and experiencing the outdoors. On March 11, 2022, Cartwright married his wife, Bethany, and they now explore together while residing in Birmingham, Alabama.
Ways to connect with Cartwright:
ADDITIONS: Media Guide – Google Doc
About the Host:
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.
Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.
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Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.
Michael Hingson ** 01:20
Well, hello, once again, glad you’re with us. I am your host, Mike Hingson. And you are listening to unstoppable mindset. Today, we have the opportunity to chat with a person who is a speaker and a certified leadership coach. And what I like best about Cartwright Morris is that what he says he does is to help equip young men and executives to live life as an adventure. And I’ve always felt that life needs to be lived as an adventure. We shouldn’t really make it a drudge. There are always challenges. There are always fun things you may not know what’s coming next. But you know what? That’s part of the adventure. So with that in mind, Cartwright, welcome to unstoppable mindset. And thanks very much for being here.
Cartwright Morris ** 02:07
Well, it’s glad to be here. Michael, I’m excited to just be with you today.
Michael Hingson ** 02:12
Well, we’re we’re kind of glad you’re here. And it’s I think it’d be fun lots to learn about because I know you’ve been very much involved in helping people with sales and other kinds of things like that. And we’ll get to all that, needless to say, but I’d like to start with hearing a little bit about maybe the earlier cart right growing up and all that kind of stuff where your your from what you did, and any secrets that you don’t want to tell you can leave out but the rest we’d love to hear about.
Cartwright Morris ** 02:40
Yeah, well, it’s funny. I’ll always say I’m born and raised in Birmingham, Alabama. I mean, you know, sometimes I like to turn up my accent, especially if I talk to some people outside the South, kind of ham it up a little bit. But actually, I live three years my life in Canada, my dad was starting to branch of his family business up in Simcoe, Ontario, if you might knows where that is, that’s near kind of south of Toronto. It’s kind of halfway between Toronto and buffalo. So I got to experience a little snow in my life on a regular basis. And yeah, I grew up just, you know, playing sports, love sports, the average student average athlete generally. You know, I’d say my upbringing is pretty great. You know, as you get older, you realize as a man, there’s little things that we miss, that I’m learning now as adult and trying to correct and redeem and figured out. But like I said, like you put in my intro about adventure. I think there’s so many times as a kid, I always wanted to be grown up, wanted to be taken seriously. And now I feel like a lot of my 20s and 30s I was going back to the man, the value of play the value of adventure and discovery and curiosity is something that I wish I didn’t diminish as a child and now’s adult trying to get back. So
Michael Hingson ** 04:09
so when you lived in Toronto, did they teach you that the apparently the appropriate way to say it is Toronto.
Cartwright Morris ** 04:18
You know, I was so young that I had no idea that there was the correct way to say I think we all just said our Southern way. Yes is generally never the right way. I mean, I’ve got friends from Australia where I you know, who’s far from Melbourne? And I always say Melbourne. And so I always get it wrong.
Michael Hingson ** 04:38
So well and of course depending on where you’re from and where you’ve lived and what you know, it’s either Houston or Houston depending on right where where you’re whether you spend time in New York or down in Texas, and yes, I’ve not ever heard that. Somebody lynched somebody for saying how stung if they were down in Texas. But I’m sure that there is a lot of angst about that. But nevertheless, that’s still what it is in New York is Houston, for whatever reason. I
Cartwright Morris ** 05:08
mean, I remember I remember being in New York and I got corrected on that very quickly. It’s housed in
Michael Hingson ** 05:13
its house. And I don’t know what the history of that is, I guess I should really go explore that. It’s like in Massachusetts, it’s not Worchester. It’s Wista. Not even Worcester. It’s Wista.
Cartwright Morris ** 05:29
It’s so funny languages. It’s funny, we all are separated by our common language and English, right? Depends on just where you are in the world.
Michael Hingson ** 05:37
Yeah. There’s something to be said for all the accents. Of course, each, each place would say, well, we don’t have an accent, you have the accent? Right, exactly. So there you go. Well, so where did you or did you go to college?
Cartwright Morris ** 05:53
So I went to college at a place called Auburn University, which is an Alabama for those who may not know that we, you know, in the south, we love our football and Auburn is the little brother team, you know, most people who can’t follow college football. So I went to Auburn, bounced around agrees, you know, I mean, I would say it’s a lot big part of my story. Michael is struggling through school trying to understand how to learn. You know, now I look back, there was probably a lot of mental health related stuff that I didn’t know how but also just the not knowing my direction hurt me in college, too. I think I bounced around. I mean, I went from business to different other history major, to eventually settled on, I was like, oh, I’ll just be a teacher and a coach and I signed up for kinesiology classes when I was going to get into PE, B, a PE teacher visit. So that was what led me there. And then I ended up getting a degree line, I believe in Auburn, because I’m one of those people who it just took too long, it took little more than four years to graduate. You know, I guess I missed the snow, I kind of dropped out of college, went and lived in Park City, Utah was a ski bum for a season with some friends and had some fun, Joy a little bit different way of living and but eventually came home and really felt like I needed a degree. And that led to me actually transferring and going to another state school in Alabama called University of South Alabama mobiel. And I transferred there ended up getting my degree in about a year and a half. And yeah, and then let that lead me back to Birmingham, which I did not want to go back. But that led me back there. So
Michael Hingson ** 07:47
when did you get your degree in finally?
Cartwright Morris ** 07:49
So health education, okay. So I’m still chasing that idea of, you know, you know, the, the, you know, he has a, that’s what I always say, I tried to mentor guys more and more in the college. I don’t know what Michael, your thoughts on on on edge or modern education system. But, you know, now I look back, I’m like, I wish I took some time to kind of figure out more what I want, because I really didn’t know, at 18. But now understanding my personality, taking more personality tests, understanding my idea of flexibility and autonomy and my desire to be more adventurous being in a school system, from an eight to five job would have just drain me. And I probably would not be the best husband, I probably wouldn’t be the best father, I wouldn’t be the best employee because it just that understanding more of my personality, but that’s what I thought, you know, at the time I was, you know, you know, I thought football was the greatest thing ever, and I can help young men be a football coach. And to be a football coach, you got to start somewhere in a school system. And P made sense, because I like being active. And so but now, thankfully, doors were shut and in that area, and my path kind of veered off, and which I’m very thankful for.
Michael Hingson ** 09:15
Well, you mentioned the modern education system. I think one of our biggest problems is that we do too much studying for the tests and not studying to learn and be creative. Yes. And I think that’s the the biggest issue that we’ve we’ve somehow got to get away from that because it shouldn’t be all about tests. And if we’re not really teaching people to think I remember when I was a graduate student. In our one year our Ph D qualifying exam, or classical mechanics was administered by a postdoc who came from I believe he Dr. Price was from Berkeley, and he came down And, and taught well, he was a good teacher. And he gave the he created as as new faculty members are often forced, if they will say it to do create the PhD qualifying exam for classical mechanics. And one of the things that that he did was he had a test of 20 questions. And the first 16 Were all basically theoretical, philosophical, mostly conceptual questions, but not math related, right. And the last four, all dealt with math, Lagrangian dynamics, and other such things. And fewer people. I don’t know whether anyone actually that year passed the test. And they the faculty heads called him in and said, What are you doing? Why did you create such a hard test? And he said, hard test. Let me show you something. He pulled out his freshman, classical mechanics test. And he said, This is the final I gave students at the end of the year, the only difference between that one and the qualifying exam was that the qualifying exam had the four math questions, which were all things that people learned, kind of in junior or or later, but not or in graduate school, but not in freshman, classical mechanics, the same initial 16 questions were on the test. And people didn’t get them, because they were expecting math, and they were expecting a lot of stuff rather than really learning the concepts.
Cartwright Morris ** 11:43
Yes, I think there’s something too just being problem solvers. There’s there’s too much of a linear thinking to education. thing. Yes. To your point with that test? Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Hingson ** 11:57
And, you know, on, they couldn’t very well argue with him since he showed them what he did. But nevertheless, it’s it’s amazing that we, we miss so much, and all we do teaching concepts and basics, and oftentimes, don’t really teach you to think,
Cartwright Morris ** 12:20
hmm, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think there is there’s definitely like a desire of what to think in lots of different areas, but versus how to think how to process how to problem solve, how to think how to how to take on challenge challenges, I think that was something much of my talk first 25 years of life, as I learned how to avoid challenge, hardship struggle, and now later in life, you know, learning how to do that, and just, you know, self discover it’s just so much and become more self aware is led to much more of my success than the other. Right.
Michael Hingson ** 13:00
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it’s important to do that. And I think we really need to, to teach children youth to think and I think, when we honor teachers, a lot of times when we hear the teachers who get honored with one award or another, when we hear them talk, they do talk about how they really dedicated to their students and helping the students really better themselves. And you don’t hear them talking about, we just study for the test.
Cartwright Morris ** 13:33
Yeah. Yeah, I think we always remember the teachers that did do that. Yeah, I do. Yeah. 100%. I said their name, the names of there’s less than a handful. That really challenged me to think versus Hey, do this, you get this? Yeah,
Michael Hingson ** 13:53
maybe it was the time, but I think I had more teachers that really did do that, rather than doing the test, but I’m talking about growing up in the 50s. And in the 60s, and there was a lot more of that. And there was a lot less of those so called standardized tests. Right. And so that probably helped. And I had some teachers that really dealt with philosophy, my freshman teacher, Mr. Wilson, my freshman English teacher in high school. I remember once he was talking about just ethics and philosophy, but had nothing to do with the English stuff that we were supposed to be learning, but he took a few minutes, and he was talking about the fact that, you know, if I owe somebody a quarter, I’m going to be bothered until I can pay them back the quarter that I owe them. And that’s the way it should be because if I make a commitment to borrow something and then pay it back, I better make sure that I do that. And I had a whole bunch of bunch of other teachers who were the same way. And I remember most all of my even up through high school teachers, and they all were were that way i really wish that we had more of that today rather than teachers being forced to do the things that they do. My niece is a kindergarten teacher. And she talks about all the crazy things that teachers have to do today that make absolutely no sense in terms of whole educational system, because what are they really teaching the kids or she tries to teach her students things about reading and writing, even in kindergarten, I’m amazed at what they get to learn that we didn’t get to learn. But still, there are a lot of limitations put on them, which is very frustrating.
Cartwright Morris ** 15:32
Yeah, yeah. Because what’s going to be the result 1020 30 years from now, right.
Michael Hingson ** 15:39
And that’s what’s scary. So you eventually got out of college, and you said, doors were closed. So what happened?
Cartwright Morris ** 15:47
So I, so I left college, and I was really excited about just possibilities of where I can move and where I could go and get a job and didn’t want to go back to my hometown, but job opportunity came about, and Birmingham, and it was in kind of fitness and training and mixed with some sales and getting people to this new facility in Birmingham. And I felt like it was like a Oh, as a way to get my foot in the door, maybe in the athletic space in the training space. And ventually. Yeah, that lasted about six months. And I realized this wasn’t for me. You know, doing sales, you become very, either self aware, or some kind of self not really reflected the opposite. navel gazing, I guess, is the best way to say it. And I learned a lot about myself. And I needed to gain confidence in myself, I didn’t, I didn’t need to dress from insecurity. So eventually then left that job and actually was like, I need to go find myself, I need to figure out who I am. And I need to not find it in my hometown, where I felt like I was, you know, sometimes that familiar? I don’t know how, Michael, you’re familiar with the hero’s journey, Joseph Campbell. Yeah, where he talks about getting away from the familiar, I think I needed that in my life. And so I literally moved to this ranch out in the middle of Northern California. You know, it’s straight up i Five from where you are in Atlanta, close to Oregon. And really just I was 26. I didn’t, you know, didn’t know anything, I hardly knew anybody there. And, you know, most of the people that are on staff are college students, 1920 year olds, and here I was this random 26 year old come in the middle of summer, and I was working maintenance. And it was the best thing I could ever want in need in that moment where I could literally just show up, do my thing, get done in a certain hour, work hard, just kind of have everything in front of me and not have this ambiguous idea of the unknown, and really kind of just show up and really be accepting of just who I was not who my parents were not the idea of what I could be how much money I made, who I knew, you know, it was just kind of when you get your hometown and that familiar, you can start projecting, I always say I was living in a lifestyle of outside in I was constantly living my life through the eyes of other people. How can I be funny enough, seem smart enough, seem good enough and project this idea, and of who I thought I should be or or thought my parents thought I should be, even though they weren’t putting pressure on me to be a certain way. And I finally got away from all that. And we’re in this place where people just didn’t know me from Adam. And it was kind of it was refreshing. They accepted me, I finally I think I found community, really, for the first time in a long time. And I felt accepted. And I started it was kind of the beginning of where I am now. And it was kind of this just self belief of man, I am valuable. I do add to people’s lives by the words I say in my actions and articulating those things by just journaling, spending time alone, being around this community who, like I said, Didn’t that know all my background and my history will have a kind of high school athlete or was or what kind of student I wasn’t college, they just knew me for me and who I was showing them and so that really set me up I feel like for where I am now. And that kind of got me in the right path.
Michael Hingson ** 19:55
what did that teach you being out there?
Cartwright Morris ** 19:58
With it. Thank you It really taught me how to do myself from an inside out approach. You know, Stephen Covey’s got to talks a lot about this, that this, this belief, it’s got us to everything, living our life and this conviction, starting from that as who I am and presenting that. And if it’s not accepted, it’s not we don’t get angry, we don’t throw judgment. We don’t it’s but we continually to discover and learn in any situations. And, and we can’t, if it’s like building that lifestyle from that place of inside out. And you really start living in truth, you start living in that place where you’re you’re not trying to be, you’re not approaching life to be accepted. Acceptance is beautiful, I think all human beings, we need that we need that and be unconditionally loved. But I think we need that in the context of, hey, let me bring myself to the table and not try to adjust according to culture, I think I was a very good chameleon, I think I could perform and do little things just to fit in just to be right to make people laugh. And when you didn’t have a positive response of me, I, you know, went into myself and beat myself up and judged myself and created a lifestyle where I think there’s a lot of low grade anxiety that I was dealing with. That then led to me really not valuing what I had to bring others. And so I think really starting to live that inside out and valuing what I had to offer, I can really live in community holistically, and I could really add value, and I could then learn from my mistakes from my failures and not be crumble, you know, be destroyed by them, because I was really just learning more about what was inside me. So.
Michael Hingson ** 22:02
So you started really gaining some self confidence and learning self worth?
Cartwright Morris ** 22:06
Absolutely. 100%. Yeah.
Michael Hingson ** 22:09
So how long were you at the ranch in Atlanta.
Cartwright Morris ** 22:13
So I was I was there for really four months. And then I came back and the Oregon to my hometown, where more disorganization actually had a home base in Alabama. And so I continue to work with them on and off for the next four or five years. And was there it was in California, they actually had part of the organization was in Israel in the West Bank, I got to travel there and experience new cultures and be around just different people and as exposed to living in California where I met a lot of different people from different parts of the world and really expanded my worldview and helped me really see understand people, I think that’s where I really started become a student of people, I really got so fascinated by people, just my natural curiosity through just being in the outdoors in California and, and out in the west, whereas kid, I used to love westerns, I used to love mountains and adventure and I got to kind of explore that, you know, living out there and being out there and but then it really and that other curiosity of just people understanding people where they come from different backgrounds where, you know, I just, you know, grew up in, you know, Birmingham, Alabama, and the Bible Belt, where things were kind of necessarily always rigid, but it was definitely the out, I lived in kind of a bubble. And that’s an echo chamber, and I got to hear different perspectives and belief systems or worldviews, and it really helped me, if anything, just gain more empathy for others understand their point of view, but also reinforce, you know, what I believe in my convictions about this life and all that. And so it was, it was, it ended up being really fun. I always say with like, you know, the older you get, you know, I think as a young man, I think you think you know everything about everything. And you got all these convictions, you become pretty dogmatic and rigid of what you think is right. And, and they’re pretty broad. But the older you get, those things start shrinking, and you start having less and less, but those things that have become less and less of your convictions you become they become more real and true. And you can base so much of your life on and you become everything else you become pretty open to and honest. And it actually becomes more fun to be around others and talk about these certain issues that you used to be just so rigid on.
Michael Hingson ** 24:50
I hear you and so you worked with that organization for a while and then Then what did you do? You obviously left that at some point.
Cartwright Morris ** 24:58
Yeah, so that led some me moving. You know, I really think this is a common thing in my life. I think this is a very much. It’s why I resonate so much with Joseph Campbell’s hero’s journey. It was, but I really felt when I was leaving that organization and the middle of 2015. I was like, Am I like, I could go anywhere, I could do anything. I’m excited. Um, and just don’t get sent me back home. I don’t want to I don’t want to be back in Birmingham, Alabama. Yeah, and I was. But it was interesting, this job opportunity opened up where I really, it’s interesting, my heart really went out. And built all these life experiences I developed all I felt like these coaching skills and these ability to really help men in business and sales really go through the process that I went through in my 20s, and, you know, early 30s, to really help them apply some of these things in their business world. And I really felt a heart for the men that I knew in the city. And that’s where my biggest network was. And that was, and so that really opened the door to work for this nonprofit organization here in Birmingham, Alabama, the Center for executive leadership, and it was. Yeah, and it was just man, the door kind of flung open and that move back here and work for that organization for six years and really hone my skills developed more of a business side being even a being in the nonprofit space. really helped me kind of figure out more and more of how do I actually add value to others? How do I really do this on a on a bigger scale than just, you know, in my community, but actually do it in a way that’s helping those who may not even know where who I am? And so that’s what ventually led me back to Birmingham? Yeah.
Michael Hingson ** 27:01
Well, and along the way, you also found a partner?
Cartwright Morris ** 27:07
I did, I did. Oh, it’s funny, I was single. For a long time. You know. I was that’s, you know, going back to my story, what I said earlier, Michael, of just outside, living outside in, I think that’s another reason why I led me to this ranch, the ranch that I went to in California was you, you’re in your mid 20s. And in the south, this is a very common thing as people are getting married. 2223 right out of college, and a lot of my friends were in their starting careers and building success in creating families and having kids and but for whatever reason, I couldn’t find that person I wanted to spend the rest of my life with and it became frustrating you, you really do feel very exposed in a world where you know, everyone you know, is married, and, you know, any single person who resonates with that gets that and it can be difficult. But the person I end up finding, I wouldn’t trade it for the world and kind of came from a place where I didn’t, I never thought it would was a dating app. You know. And which is crazy story was I am a few years older, and my wife and she was she had, you know, Michael, I don’t know if you know anything about these dating apps, which is funny. But it’s the to put an age range. And she had her age range was like 28 to 34. And two weeks before my 36th birthday, she bumped it up to 28 to 35. And so I fit into that, and we met in two weeks before my 36th birthday. And we met and about a little over a year later, we were married. And man and I couldn’t imagine anybody else. We’re having a blast and loving life and hoping to have a kid on the way soon. So yeah,
Michael Hingson ** 29:15
my wife and I got married later than most people 32 and 33 years and as we always said, and we lived together for 40 years until she passed last November. But what we both always said and I still say is we were old enough that we really knew what we wanted in a person. And it wasn’t something that was arrogance or whatever, but it’s just out of maturity. We knew what we thought would be the kind of person that we could get along with. And not from a dating app. But one day, we were introduced by a common friend. And he and she and I And someone I was actually dating at the time went out to dinner. And I sat across from my future wife not knowing that was going to be the case. And the other two, were talking and we just hit it off. And then my friend moved. And so can Karen. And the friend that that we had in common. We’re in touch. But he said, You know that I had my my friend had left. And suddenly I’m talking to Karen. This was in 1982. So I met her at the end of January. And by March, we were talking some. And then I went to Hawaii, with my parents in May of 82. And I was going to do some sales work over there. And I wanted to take them, they had never been to Hawaii. And Karen was traveling, and she did the the ticketing and all that. And the bottom line is, I called her twice from Hawaii every day. We were over there. And we were married in November of 1982.
Cartwright Morris ** 31:04
Oh, wow. That’s great.
Michael Hingson ** 31:07
Yeah, as I said, we really knew what we wanted, or we thought we did. And I guess we were right, because we hit it off. And we were married for 40 years until she passed. So it was really a good marriage. And, and you know what it’s like now, being married now for a little more than a year, you know, how you feed off each other? And you you enhance each other? A lot?
Cartwright Morris ** 31:29
Yeah. And I would say and what, for me what it’s interesting, you hear this was so you know, I think being part of a good group of men and your life and have that your life, you hear the stories of their marriage life, and you kind of go, Okay, how would I handle that situation? And how would I want to be married to somebody who reacts in that way. And so that, like, to your point, I kind of understood more of what I wanted, and was able to, even in the dating process, kind of, I don’t want to say throw out, like, you know, testing, like it was an exam, but there was definitely moments where I wanted to see how she reacted in certain situations. And
Michael Hingson ** 32:12
I’m sure that went both ways. Yeah.
Cartwright Morris ** 32:15
100%. And really find out if I’m marrying a mature person who values life that has the same interest as well as values. And, and we that’s what we found. And so, yeah, so it’s, yeah, it’s been fun. It’s interesting. It’s in you, right, and it’s never gonna be perfect. But that’s the I think that’s the joy. Right? Yeah. When it’s, you know, you kind of figure it out together. So, and you want to be able to be with someone who is willing to do that, that’s not just projecting some expectation onto you, and is willing to kind of just and build and go from there
Michael Hingson ** 32:51
and grow together. So you gained a lot of self confidence. So what, what’s the difference between confidence and arrogance, because projecting confidence and truly being confident, I can see some people saying, well, you’re just arrogant.
Cartwright Morris ** 33:10
See, I would say a lot of my life was trying to project myself as not being arrogant. But that’s not necessarily confident either. I think that’s it might, I would say the big difference between arrogance and confidence is arrogance is really trying to hide an insecurity. There’s something you’re trying to give provato you’re trying to give an image that is hiding something that you’re afraid someone’s going to find out, where confidence is built on humility, you are 100% aware of what you’re not, that you, maybe not 100%, but you are aware of what you’re not. And you’re okay with it. You’re not trying to hide it. Like you are what like you’re, you know, what you’re good at, you’re confident and that in the things that you’re not you are willing to accept, to value that and other people were arrogant people, if there’s something they’re not good at, they will you know, they will be territorial in a way to others who are good at it, they will be feel insecure, they will feel a level of almost, what’s the word? I’m looking at a scarcity mindset where like, you can’t be good at that. Because I have to be I have to be known for that where confident people are good with other people that are good at what they do. And I think that’s, that’s a lot of what confidence we have to really think about that. It’s grounded in humility. And you it’s almost like holding two truths at once. You know, when people are, yeah, go ahead, Michael.
Michael Hingson ** 34:47
And the other part about it is it’s it’s not just the issue of humility, but even if somebody is better at doing what you do. If you’re a competent person, then You look at it from the standpoint of, wow, this guy is great or this woman is great, what can I learn? And how do I learn to do some of those things? And do that, from a humble and curious standpoint rather than something where it’s it’s not humble, but rather, how do I show that person up?
Cartwright Morris ** 35:22
Yes, yes. Yeah. And that’s, and that’s where I think you go back to the outside in. I mean, we the scarcity mindset versus a more holistic mindset of, hey, we’re doing this all together. And I think that truly confident people like being around other confident people earring and people don’t like being around confident people. Right? They are. They’re threatened by them.
Michael Hingson ** 35:45
Right? So how do you tell the difference? I think you’re sort of alluding to it. But how do you tell the difference between someone who is truly self confident? And somebody who’s just plain arrogant?
Cartwright Morris ** 35:58
Yeah. Well, generally, you can kind of get an idea and being around them. Like, I mean, I just think like, going back to just I liked the idea that just a lot of arrogant people there is there there’s a you could feel they’re threatened by other people. There’s a scarcity mindset, there’s a insecurity. And their outlets say that you we can all sense the difference between insecurity and humility, that there’s a fear based mindset, there’s a there’s an anxiety in the atmosphere is probably the best word versus a humble person, they’re present. They’re there with you. You know, at depends on a lot of different situations. But you can just feel there’s a level of maturity, a willingness to engage others, versus protect yourself from others. And so I think just especially like in a business concept, I mean, or even in, say, like a, say, like someone in sales that’s trying to present an image that they’re not, versus someone who’s just confident in being who they are, where they’re at. And I think that’s something that that is generally can be summed up in my mind by just the presence of way they act, whether one’s fear base versus one is presence based.
Michael Hingson ** 37:25
And like, what you just said about engaging yourself with others, as opposed to protecting yourself from others. How true?
Cartwright Morris ** 37:36
Yes, most of us Yeah, are very, it’s really strange. And it takes a lot of hard work to get to that point, because I think a lot of us do grow in environments where it’s it. You know, my favorite quote of any movie are sorry, show recent shows Ted lasso, he talks about, be, be curious, not judgmental, right. I think that mindset of like, we immediately judge people that are different that and so like that, we try to protect ourselves from them.
Michael Hingson ** 38:11
Yeah, and we’ve got to get away from the whole idea of being judgmental, there’s no, there’s no value in it really. And the other part about it, and I talk about trusts a lot is that it’s like being open to trust. The difference between us and dogs is dogs generally are open to trust, they don’t trust unconditionally, they do. I think love unconditionally, I think it’s in their nature. But they don’t trust unconditionally, but they are open to trust, unless something horrible is really happened to them. And the difference is, we tend not to be because we’ve been brought up in so many ways to think everybody’s got their own agenda, and how can I trust this person? I’m not going to trust I’m going to build a wall, rather than exploring. Is there a way I can develop a relationship and a trusting relationship with this person? And the answer is, maybe there is, maybe there isn’t. But you’ll never know until you try with the idea that you leave yourself open to the idea of trust, anyway, somebody will earn your trust or they won’t. And likewise, you will. You will earn their trust, and they’ll earn your trust or that won’t happen. And then that’s a different story. But you’ve got to start somewhere.
Cartwright Morris ** 39:35
100% And, yeah, it’s it’s, I mean, I think you’ve always got to be willing to ask those questions or so why am I not willing to trust it’s a valuable thing probably the one of the more valuable things in this life. I think you’re right, like we all generally should, you know, should openly love others but the desire to trust one another is built, but you have to start with The willingness to have like, hey, if I really want to be in relation to this person, if I really want to build a business with someone or build a marriage, or there has to be some level of trust created, and what do I have to put aside to really, you know, build that?
Michael Hingson ** 40:16
How do we build competence and create confidence for our lives?
Cartwright Morris ** 40:21
How do we build confidence, create confidence? So I think it’s going back to what a little bit what I just said is, you know, going back to my athletics background of like, watching film tape, right. I mean, that I would say, the first thing that’s the obvious is, you got to do hard things, you got to be willing to do hard things, whether that’s by choice, or hard things happen to you in life, like we all that’s going to happen. I mean, as you know, Michael, like this is just this is, these are the things that are going to build confidence, but to really, to gain confidence in your life you had to on a consistent basis, you have to learn to do hard things. Well, how do we do hard things? Well, and I would say like, it’s going back to my athletic start with evaluating how do I evaluate my thoughts and emotions? On a regular basis? Like how do i When at any given situation, I would say any competent person, great leader, top performer, I know, has the ability to really do this at a higher high speed. In their mind, when they go through something hard, they experience a negative emotion or a negative thought, they’re able to process they have a filter to which they see the world, this is going back to what we talked about trust that generally, people struggle to get trust, they have a filter of how they see the world that everyone’s out to get me. Right. And I think sometimes we have to continue to evaluate our filter, and process these things. Because that’s how when we do hard things, when we go through something negative, we’re able to adjust, I would say that’s what I say, you know, when I experienced a negative emotion, you know, over 10 years ago, it was, I would become, like I said, navel gazing, I would look inward, I would shut down, I would collapse. And I wasn’t willing to announce of trying to avoid those negative emotions versus like, I needed to evaluate it understand my thoughts and feelings, what was going on to actually grow and learn and, and so that’s why we say start with evaluation, then there’s, from there, that’s clarifying your strengths and weaknesses, you really have to clarify, let’s go back to humility thing, learning to really know what you’re good at and know what you’re not. I think that’s a real confident person is very aware of both of those things. I would say that’s a big part of my journey. I think some people hate personality tests, but to me, they’ve become really helpful because it’s helped me understand myself, and not feel that constant anxiety to try to be someone I’m not. And I think it’s allowed me to be more confident, show up more and be myself. And then I think the last thing is really important is always like says you got to learn to act boldly, from what you’ve learned from evaluating, clarifying. I always say Boldness is like your is courage, his little brother, it’s real intense, real fast, not really sure where he’s going, but you gotta be willing to act boldly, I think a lot of confidence follows those are willing to act boldly to be bold in their in their decision making to, to see forward movement, or not focused on the results. I think we’ve hit on that a little bit, Michael, especially with Edie, you know, like we talked about test taking comes all about making the test. It does not about the process. I think, people that won’t be bold in the process, really not focused solely on the result. I think confident people really, they know good results are coming. So they’re not focused on it. Because they know they can learn from failure. They can learn from hardship, they can learn from disappointment, they can learn from even pain and change. Like there’s these constant things in our life that hard things are calm, but when we’re really willing to evaluating, clarifying and then acting from them, we really can gain confidence in just about anything, whether that’s in our relationships, or at work career, or just in life in general.
Michael Hingson ** 44:19
How do you define bold, you talk about acting boldly. What does that really mean?
Cartwright Morris ** 44:25
It Yeah, yeah, it’s just I think, boldness is really willing to just step out outside your comfort zone. I’m trying to think who created it but the whole idea of here’s our comfort zone, and then outside of it is growth, right? And then way outside of this panic, I think it’s willing to step outside that comfort zone of your life that here, you know, you’re not, you’re not going to really gain confidence by being on the sideline by being comfortable by being safe. By doing things like you’ve always done it. It’ll be like everybody else. I think bold people, confident people at you know, they act boldly by doing something that’s a little bit uncomfortable. That’s a little bit unknown. That’s a little bit. That’s why I always say life is, you know about adventure, I think we have to take that mindset. Be willing to just kind of play a little bit have a little fun. You know, Mike, I think this is really interesting, because I’ve thought of this the other day, because I watched the documentary, The rescue, about the 13 boys in Thailand who got stuck in the cave, right? And how, you know, they had trained Thai Navy SEALs, they had these people, they’re extremely disciplined knew how to dive trained. This is their area of expertise and their job and their, and they struggled to figure out how to find the boys and rescue the boys and you they needed these men who basically do this as a hobby to rescue these boys like this is like what really Chet like, allow those boys to be rescued is where they realized is they needed the weekend or cave diver, the guy who does this for fun, who is willing to go into dark caves, wearing a mask and a snorkel and who has navigated this for the fun of it, I think is going back to what we said about adventure and play like these people willing in their free time and fun to do these crazy uncomfortable things. Because of the curiosity because of the adventure because of the fun, and I think And so that led to their expertise by just living life that way, doing something that allowed them to actually be experts in rescuing 13 boys that, you know, is a story that spread all over the world. And now, you know, I think there’s a movie and a documentary about it. And and I think that really, when it comes to finding boldness, is that it’s just the willingness to step out of your comfort zone, out of curiosity, and the desire to be better to explore, to, even to the past of having fun, I think everything I’ve done is fun is is is not all, you know, it’s never really come out of my comfort zone. Yeah.
Michael Hingson ** 47:31
Well, the other part about all of that, is that when you are like the weekend diver, they’re also more relaxed. Yeah, then they know more of what they’re doing. Or they go into it with a confidence, as opposed to just a discipline like a seal diver or something like that, who may very well have good competence. But the weekend diver who goes in there comes from a different point of view. And there’s value for that.
Cartwright Morris ** 48:03
Yes, 100%. And,
Michael Hingson ** 48:05
you know, talking about the whole idea of leaders and leadership, I think that true leaders do have a lot more confidence and a lot less arrogance, and some of their competence also helps them recognize maybe someone can do this particular job better than I and I’m going to let them do that. Because as the leader of the group, I’m responsible for the group being successful. And that means knowing other people’s skills and recognizing when they may be able to take the lead, and get the job done better or help us all get the job done better.
Cartwright Morris ** 48:45
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
Michael Hingson ** 48:49
So one of the things that strikes me as a relevant question is, why is it important to find the right people to gain confidence because you can meet a lot of people, but some are going to teach you more and truly help you more than others. So when you’re really looking at it, why is it important to find the right people? And how do we do that?
Cartwright Morris ** 49:10
Yeah. I mean, that’s, you know, that’s, I would say, that’s probably a lot of people out there like, yeah, how do I find those people? That is the hard part, right? I think, finding similar values and interests similar like way I was looking for a wife, but I would say when we start acting boldly and we start really understanding more of ourselves through evaluating and clarifying and then we act like we need to be around the right people that reinforce all that’s happening into us. I think that’s the beauty of being in a great network, a good community. Working in a in a healthy work environment is when we start really gaining confidence. We got people going, alright, you’re on the right track. I love in my you know, men’s cohort, my leadership cohort is really fun, because I always say I’m limited in my expertise. But also when you get a group of leaders in a on a zoom call or in the room and they start adding value to other people, and other person goes, Wow, that I needed to hear that, or that really resonated or that that really spoke to me, this person who gave it goes, Oh, wow, maybe I am on the right track, I’m gaining confidence in my voice, I’m gaining confidence, my actions and even my thought process. And so I think, you know, it’s hard to really gain confidence on island, you know, I think that’s where, when we really see where we’re adding value from all that we’re doing on, you know, internally and on the side, and that understand going through these situations, doing hard things, and understanding ourselves in it, and then acting more boldly from it, then getting the reinforcement from a, like I said, a community network or work environment really creates. Yeah, helps us gain confidence. I think also, the other piece of it is, is really being challenged, you know, I think that’s something that’s really helped me just, bro is just being around great people, I think you really, or end up in silos of just poor thinking and, you know, little action, you know, we end up saying the same, but when we get around people who are willing to, to work hard, do things differently, think differently, you know, it automatically, you know, by osmosis challenges us to do the same. And it’s hard to stay the same. And you really have to go, Alright, how do I level up here, I don’t perform at a higher level. And I think that generally reinforces confidence. And sometimes, you know, we, yeah, that happens that way.
Michael Hingson ** 51:59
I love the phrase, you said, it’s hard to find confidence on an island. We’re all together. And we, we really can learn a lot more. When we’re around other people, even if they don’t know they’re teaching us if we open our minds to being willing to be taught or shown. I do believe that we’re our own best teachers, but we have to be open to learning. And so I love that that phrase, it’s hard to find competence on an island. I think that’s great. Which is, which is really pretty cool. But you have clearly demonstrated the value of life being an adventurer, in a lot of different ways. Do you still work with executive leadership? Or are you out on your own now?
Cartwright Morris ** 52:48
No, I started my own coaching business, actually, this time last year? Yeah. So I’m doing Yeah. Coaching executives and sales professionals here in Birmingham, and, and some remotely? And yeah, I’ve been doing that for almost a year now. So
Michael Hingson ** 53:07
tell us more about all that. What, what you do? What’s the the organization called? And all that sort of stuff?
Cartwright Morris ** 53:14
Yeah, so it’s just J cart, right? Coaching. The J is my first name and who I’m named after my dad and my granddad. So it’s a little bit of a nod to them, and their business acumen. But yeah, so I’ve been coached. So I really my coaching program is three months, it’s kind of we go through that process of gaining confidence. And in my Men’s cohort, so each beginning each month, we really talk through you know, a lot of these big issues, these kind of overarching content, and, and but then we really start getting into Alright, how’s this resonating with you? How do you really walk this through, and that’s what we do in my, your offer two coaching sessions in this coaching program, where we really start problem solving. All right, what are you going through, because I always say, like, leading and sales, you know, especially, like, these are hard things to do. These are not easy. That’s what I like, I always say, like, Dang conference, you got to get to do hard things. So to do it, but you got to learn how to do them well, and so really, how do I help you in the midst of some of the hard things you’re doing in your job and even at home? And it’s funny, Michael, you know, we talked a little bit on marriage and it’s some of my clients, what ends up happening is they come in for professional and help and later, you know, in some of their managerial stuff and ends up we end up talking a lot about their marriage, which is funny. So, but yeah, that’s a lot of you know, that’s what I do is really just a men’s cohort with coaching on a monthly basis. And then really, yeah, I’ve created even just from from that a keynote that I love to, you know, speak to sales teams and help them out and and To create momentum and just in be a level of solution to problems in in specially in the sales world, which is just not an easy man, you know, I would say it’s not easy, but I’m someone who loves autonomy, you know, it’s probably the best place the best career path you can take. So
Michael Hingson ** 55:23
how would you define success today?
Cartwright Morris ** 55:27
Well, that’s where I say it’s changes. I think that’s where I think we all have to wake up every morning, go. Alright, what does success look like today? I think sometimes, I mean, we go I mean, I keep coming back to my story, which I’m glad you got me to tell him I. It, it, I would say I wanted I was a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. I just desperately wanted to be this line of success, the rest of my life show up, be this person and fit in and everyone accepts me and feel successful. And I think that’s just that’s a very poor way to define success. And I think success has to be defined. By really, I mean, really kind of just growth it has to where every day am I learning? Am I becoming a better person? Am I connecting with people? Am I learning about people learning about becoming more self aware? And perfecting not only silly, perfect things I think perfect can be miscued, as well as, what am I really growing in excellence in my craft? And I would say Yeah, so I would say it’s it for the most part. It’s it’s subjective. And but obviously, you know, it could change per year, it could change per month, it could change per day. But I think we’re when really we learn how to find that for ourselves to our unique personalities, our unique gifting our unique, even career path and interests. That’s sometimes we just at a young age, decide this is the only thing that’s going to be successful, and we force it and then wake up, you know, in our middle age and feel angry, depressed and disappointed with the life that we have. I think there’s a reason why it’s because we’ve just been unwilling to adjust to define success, according to really what the day holds. So a
Michael Hingson ** 57:25
lot to be said for self analysis on a daily basis, isn’t there?
Cartwright Morris ** 57:29
Absolutely. Reflection is so underrated. Underrated. Yes, I would say a lot of great leaders that I know are just they have the ability to reflect really well.
Michael Hingson ** 57:40
You talked a lot about sales and salespeople, what kind of advantages do you think salespeople actually have in terms in their personalities over the personalities of other professionals who are not salespeople?
Cartwright Morris ** 57:55
Yeah, you know, it’s hard it is. You know, I think there is a desire to understand people I think you almost got to be an expert at people to be really good sales because you’re gonna walk into any room and who you’re selling to is going to be very different resonate if you try to come in and be big, gregarious person, which I think generally sales people are, they kind of can be extroverted. Real relational, have the ability to communicate at a high level, which are good things, but I think sometimes if we force those issues, or force ourselves on to say, this is not always going to work for the same people, so I think really, that learning to be a student of human beings and understand them and their needs, and really what I also is, you know, obviously this is any profession is really in sales you’re trying to be whether you’re, you know, a business owner or even just working for a company, as I say, in sales, you really have to be solution focused, how do I provide a solution for this person, for this company? For this business, am I offering that and that’s where, you know, I think many people of all, I think every human being maybe has had a bad experience with the sales guy, where it felt salesy pushy, gross manipulative were here but over here like you really can we can you can also be a salesperson that’s really wanting to add value and solutions for that and that really frees you up to show up and kind of be in a place where you’re don’t necessarily have to be all things all people or lets you frees you up to go the next next person go hey, thank you for the time and you continue to build a relationship and network but you can kind of move on and yeah, really continued. Continue doing your job. You But you have to be resilient. I think that’s another thing. Michael, as you’re, as I’m talking here is the willingness to deal with failure, I think there’s a lot of jobs where fit like failure, like as an engineer, oh, my goodness, it was funny, I was on the driving range the other day, and somebody I had a golf driving range, and somebody hit a bad shot on the driving range you get, and they go, he turned to me, he goes, You know, every time I hit one of those, I’m just thankful I’m not not my operating room. Oh, it’s like that mindset, like, failure is hard. And a lot of other professions. Like, being a surgeon or engineer, where versus in sales, it’s like you have to be, it’s almost like a baseball player where, you know, over, you know, over a third of the time, you’re gonna fail. And you have to be willing to kind of build that resilience, understand yourself, and, you know, continue to gain confidence and be an expert, your craft and be more relational and solution or focus versus results. And me focused.
Michael Hingson ** 1:01:01
I would say also, that it isn’t necessarily that a third of the time you fail. A third of the time, it may not go the way you planned, but the other side of it is, how do you embrace that? And how do you help the customer? I’ve had times that I’ve sold products, or tried to sell products, that would not work in my customer situations, and my bosses would regard those as failures. Why didn’t you know what sooner? Well, there were strategies as to why. And maybe I couldn’t possibly have but the other side of it is, I can also tell my customers, this is what will work for you. And that has turned into successes later on. Because we build trust. Tell me about the the concept of men are forged.
Cartwright Morris ** 1:01:46
So yeah, this is was a podcast I started and man, when was that? That was three, four years ago. Wow. It’s crazy. And it really, it’s just the mindset that I had to take on a lot of the stuff we’ve been talking about, Michael is the whole idea that life we are forged in life, whether things happen to us, or we choose to do something that these are things building us, shaping us, molding us. And we have to be willing to embrace that the whole you know, forging the definition of Forge right with it’s obviously there’s two definitions, right? There’s like a forged check. There’s the fraudulent that is portraying to present yourself as something you’re not. And then there’s the forged as an being molded and shaped by heat in hammering the hard things in life. And so that’s where that concept kind of came from the mindset that I wanted to really take on, I didn’t want to be the son, I was trying to present ourselves as something I was not. But I really wanted to embrace some of the more hard things, I avoided them for so long. And that led to really create a podcast, how do I encourage other men to do this, because I just saw this growing need that men had a similar mindset that I used to have, of just kind of passively going through life. And I think it really comes down to a lot of this, Michael, and I don’t know if you felt this in your upbringing, but I feel like less and less, and maybe it’s a western culture thing of there’s just less and less of a rite of passage for men. You know, it’s, it’s very passive. It’s not direct. It’s not a older man coming alongside you. And, you know, we generally kind of have passive ways to looking at what manhood is now. And, and, yeah, part of me wanted to really kind of start creating content around that. And that’s kind of why I started the podcast and interviewing some of these leaders and men in that I respect and admire and kind of get some of their wisdom and a lot of these areas.
Michael Hingson ** 1:03:49
Well, I think the whole idea of the decreasing rite of passage also comes from the standpoint of, we’re not encouraging people to interact with each other. We’re not encouraging people to have the, the tough or the relevant conversations. And so it does happen. Well, I’ve got to ask, do you ever deal with coaching women? I mean, our women are forged.
Cartwright Morris ** 1:04:13
Oh, I agree. I’m just one of those people. If you want to build a bridge, you got to start on your side, right? That’s
Michael Hingson ** 1:04:18
Cartwright Morris ** 1:04:21
Yeah, so I mean, I’m, I don’t have any million coaching clients at the time, but I do coach women, I just, I am one of those people where I’m like, I’m not going to, I don’t want to mansplain some of these concepts, and I just I empathize with the man. Right. And so that’s why I chose men or Forge. And so it’s definitely it’s very true for all people.
Michael Hingson ** 1:04:45
Is the podcast still going on? It is yeah. So people can find you wherever podcasts are, are made available. That is cool. Well, if people want to reach out to you and learn about coaching that you do, and maybe see Are there ways you can help them and so on? How do they do that?
Cartwright Morris ** 1:05:02
So that you can go to Menareforged.com or cartwright-morris.com
Michael Hingson ** 1:05:08
and Morris are spelled
Cartwright Morris ** 1:05:11
sorry, yeah, Cartwright’s, C A R T W R I G H T dash Morris, M O R R I S.com. Okay. And I mean, they’re the same thing. It’s, you know, either one. And so you really and I would say, go there, get on, get on my email list. And when you sign up for my email list, you get a video a little bit of about what I do, and you we can start a conversation from there. That’s the probably the best way. But you know, when you find out more content about me, you’re welcome to, you know, find me and reach out to me on LinkedIn.
Michael Hingson ** 1:05:46
Well, I hope people will do that. And I think that you’ve offered a lot of really relevant, interesting and poignant things for all of us to think about. And I hope that people will reach out to you and get a chance to know you better. And I certainly have enjoyed this in our previous conversation and want to do more of it. So we definitely need to stay in touch. And of course, if there’s ever, any way we can be of help to you, you just let us know.
Cartwright Morris ** 1:06:14
Thank you, Michael. This is a blast coming on.
Michael Hingson ** 1:06:21
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