Episode 381 – Unstoppable Zuzu: Keeping It’s a Wonderful Life Alive

In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, Michael Hingson welcomes Karolyn Grimes, best known for her unforgettable role as Zuzu Bailey in Frank Capra’s timeless classic It’s a Wonderful Life. At 85, Karolyn brings not just cherished memories from Hollywood’s Golden Age but profound lessons in faith, resilience, and gratitude that still inspire today.

She shares vivid behind-the-scenes stories of working with Jimmy Stewart, Cary Grant, John Wayne, and Maureen O’Hara—moments that shaped her life long after the cameras stopped rolling. From learning her lines at six years old to celebrating a surprise birthday on the set of Rio Grande, Karolyn offers a heartfelt glimpse into the wonder and warmth of old Hollywood.

But her story reaches far beyond fame. After losing both parents by age fifteen and later enduring the heartbreak of losing her husband and son, Karolyn rediscovered purpose through the enduring message of It’s a Wonderful Life. Today, she travels to Seneca Falls, New York—the real-life Bedford Falls—attends festivals, supports the Zuzu House foundation, and co-hosts the Zuzu All Grown Up podcast, continuing to spread the film’s message of hope.

Michael and Karolyn also share exciting plans for a Richard Diamond, Private Detective radio drama at next year’s REPS showcase. Filled with nostalgia, laughter, and heart, this episode reminds us that no matter the season—or the challenges— “It truly is a wonderful life.”
 
Highlights:
01:24 – Hear how Karolyn’s early music and elocution lessons opened doors to a Hollywood career at just six years old.
07:50 – Discover how losing both parents by age fifteen changed her path and led her to a quieter life in Missouri.
14:51 – Learn what it was like to work under Frank Capra’s direction and how he brought out the best in young actors.
19:12 – Feel the kindness of Jimmy Stewart as Karolyn recalls a moment when he turned a mistake into encouragement.
27:20 – Relive her birthday surprise on the set of Rio Grande with John Wayne and a cake she’ll never forget.
31:29 – Get a candid glimpse of Maureen O’Hara’s fiery personality and how it lit up the screen.
47:23 – Walk with Karolyn through Seneca Falls, New York—the real-life inspiration for Bedford Falls—and its annual It’s a Wonderful Life festival.
58:27 – See how she keeps the film’s spirit alive today through public appearances, the Zuzu House foundation, and her Zuzu All Grown Up podcast.
 
About the Guest:
 
Karolyn Grimes is an American actress best remembered for her role as Zuzu Bailey in Frank Capra’s timeless film It’s a Wonderful Life (1946), where she delivered one of cinema’s most cherished lines: “Every time a bell rings, an angel gets his wings.” Born in Hollywood, California, in 1940, Grimes began acting as an infant and appeared in 16 films during her childhood, including The Bishop’s Wife (1947). Her early career placed her alongside Hollywood legends like James Stewart, Donna Reed, Loretta Young, and David Niven. She later earned honors such as a star on the Missouri Walk of Fame and the Edwin P. Hubble Medal of Initiative for her contributions to film and culture.
Grimes’ personal story is one of remarkable endurance. Orphaned by age 15, she was sent from Hollywood to rural Missouri to live with strict relatives, yet she persevered and eventually became a medical technologist. Life brought both love and heartbreak—two marriages, seven children, and the tragic loss of her youngest son and husband. In the 1980s, renewed popularity of It’s a Wonderful Life reconnected her with fans and co-stars, inspiring her to embrace the film’s message of hope. Today, she travels widely to share her memories of the movie, appears annually at the Seneca Falls celebration that inspired Bedford Falls, and continues to spread its enduring message that every life truly matters.
 
Ways to connect with Karolyn:
 
podcast site, www.zuzunetwork.com
Facebook page Karolyn Grimes, www.zuzu.net
 
 
About the Host:
 
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.
 
Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.
 
https://michaelhingson.com
https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/
https://twitter.com/mhingson
https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/
 
accessiBe Links
https://accessibe.com/
https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe
https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/
https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/
 
 
 
Thanks for listening!
 
Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!
 
Subscribe to the podcast
 
If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .
 
Leave us an Apple Podcasts review
 
Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.
 
 
 
Transcription Notes:
 
Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.
 
Michael Hingson ** 01:20
Well, a gracious hello to you, wherever you happen to be today, I am your host, Mike or Michael. I don’t really care which hingson and you are listening to or watching unstoppable mindset. Today, we get a chance to chat with someone who, well, you may or may not know who she is, you will probably by the time we’re done, because I’m going to give you a clue. Probably one of the most famous lines that she ever spoke was, whenever a bell rings, an angel gets its wings. And you are right, if you guessed it, you get to meet Zuzu or Karolyn Grimes. Today, I met Karolyn a few years ago when we were both involved in doing recreations of old radio shows with the radio enthusiasts of Puget Sound, and we have had the opportunity to chat and do things together like other recreations ever since. I’m going to miss, unfortunately, the one in September, because I’m going to be off elsewhere in Texas doing a speech. But what do you do anyway? Karolyn or Zuzu, whichever you prefer, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We’re really glad you’re here.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 02:35
I’m so disappointed I don’t get to see your dog.
 
Michael Hingson ** 02:40
Oh, next time. Okay, see we and you know that’s the thing Carolyn is, just like everyone else, it’s always all about the dog. Forget me. That’s okay. It’s okay. He loves it.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 02:58
Well, I’m sorry you’re not coming. Because you know what, I really am going to do a fantastic part that I love, and that’s playing Loretta Young’s part in the bishop’s wife, the bishop’s wife, right? Yes, and you’re going to miss it. Well, I
 
Michael Hingson ** 03:14
will probably try to at least listen on the internet and and hear it. I think that’ll be fun. It’s a it’s a great part. Well, you were in the bishop’s wife originally, weren’t you?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 03:25
Yes, I was, who did? Who did you play? I played Little Debbie, who was David Nevin and Loretta Young’s little girl, and Cary Grant was an angel who came down to straighten my dad out,
 
Michael Hingson ** 03:43
and at the end he straightened him out, but there was never any memory of him being there. Was there.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 03:50
That’s right, he was erased, yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 03:56
oh, you know, it’s all about doing it, and not about him. So it’s okay. I think I thought Cary Grant did a great job. I really always was wonderful, wonderful. What was he like to work with? And what was David Nevin like to work with, much less Loretta Young?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 04:13
Well, at the beginning of the movie, they told me not to go near David Nevin. Don’t bother him. So I never did. I just had the feeling he didn’t like kids or something, I don’t know. But Loretta Young was cordial and nice, but she pretty much sat in her chair and studied the script most of the time, so I didn’t really get to visit with her all that much, but boy, Cary Grant was hands on. Oh, he was great. He there was a lot of snow in the movie, and there was an ice skating scene, and there was actually an ice rink on our stage. So every day at lunch, he would come and get me and. And he pulled me around on a sled while he practiced ice skating. And that was so much fun,
 
Michael Hingson ** 05:08
cool. And that was all in Hollywood, right?
 
05:11
Oh, yes,
 
Michael Hingson ** 05:15
I, I always found it interesting. We went to see the Rockettes a couple of times at Radio City Music Hall in New York. And it was interesting to see their, quote, ice skating rink, which was, was a very smooth floor and and they could raise it and lower it and all sorts of things. It was. It was kind of fascinating to actually know about that. And I actually got a chance to go look at it was kind of pretty interesting.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 05:45
Can you imagine, they actually made a skating rink on stage. I mean, you know, yeah, before miracles.
 
Michael Hingson ** 05:55
Well, tell us a little bit about, kind of, maybe the early Karolyn growing up, and, you know, how things got started and and what you did a little bit? Well, my
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 06:04
mother gave me all kinds of lessons. I was an only child, and so when I was about, I guess, three, she started me on the piano, the violin, dancing, which never took singing, and even elocution, diction, everything I had lessons coming out my eyeballs and I played the violin and piano.
 
Michael Hingson ** 06:30
So did you ever? Did you ever compete with Jack Benny playing the violin? Not hardly just checking.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 06:37
I did win a scholarship, though, to go to college on my violin when I was in high school. So, you know, I I played it for a long time, but I didn’t play the piano, just I stuck with the violin and I did singing. I did a lot of vocal stuff when I got older, but when I was little, she gave me all these lessons and and I can remember saying, Well, I really don’t want to go to school today if I stay at home and I practice my elocution, or I practice this, or practice my piano or whatever, well, then could I stay home and she let me stay home from school so I would practice.
 
Michael Hingson ** 07:21
Yeah. Did you ever
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 07:23
go ahead? That’s fine, that’s all.
 
Michael Hingson ** 07:26
Did you ever ask her or ever learn why she was so adamant that you took all these kinds of lessons when you were young and so on, as opposed to just going to school and so on. Well,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 07:38
unfortunately, she started getting sick when I was eight years old. And, you know, I was too young to think about asking questions like that, you know. And then she died when I was 14. So that was kind of the end of my career, for sure.
 
Michael Hingson ** 07:55
Well, yeah, and sort of it was but, but you never really did learn why she was so so steadfast in her beliefs that you had to take all of those lessons.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 08:07
I had no idea, because when she started getting sick, she had early onset Alzheimer’s, and so, you know she wasn’t, you couldn’t communicate.
 
Michael Hingson ** 08:18
Really, yeah, yeah. And it was only when you were old enough that that started. So, yeah, you really couldn’t get a lot of information and do a lot of communicating. I understand that. No, and you didn’t have much time after that to really talk to your father about it either. No, I didn’t.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 08:41
He died a year after she did. And I was 15, and the court in Hollywood shipped me to a little town in Missouri. I think there were 700 people in the town, or something like that. Yeah. So it’s quite a culture shock, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Get me out of Hollywood was great.
 
Michael Hingson ** 09:01
So what did you do then? So you were now 15, and they sent you off to Missouri. Why Missouri?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 09:09
Well, those were the only people who volunteered to take me. I had a lot of people in LA, where I lived, who would have taken me, but my father didn’t leave a will. So when I asked the judge, I said, Do I have any say at all about who I go to live with? And he said, whatever you want is like a drop in the bucket. So needless to say, my mean aunt and uncle took me back to Missouri, in a little town, but it was like, I say the best thing ever happened to me, because they’re real people. They weren’t phony. They were they were serious and and they were loving and kind, and they realized I was in a. Horrible home situation. So they really my teachers and merchants, everybody knew, and they really made up for that. They made my life livable and that I will never forget it, and I will always love that town, because
 
Michael Hingson ** 10:19
what town was it? Osceola,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 10:21
Missouri. Oh, Osceola. Okay, I’ve heard of it. 800 people in there or something.
 
Michael Hingson ** 10:27
You said they were your mean aunt and uncle. Why did you Why do you call them mean?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 10:34
My uncle wasn’t mean, but he was beaten down by his wife. She would her. Her best ploy would be to if I did something wrong, she would punish other people. And that was worse than punishing you. Yeah. So it was very, very hard to not do something wrong, because I kind of seemed like I did all the time.
 
Michael Hingson ** 11:05
Yeah, you didn’t know what the rules were. No, yeah, that that made it, made it very tough. So what did you do once you went back there? I assume you went to, you finished school.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 11:21
Yes, I finished school, and then I went to college. Where did you go? Well, it was called Central Missouri State at that time, and it was the home of the mules. And of course, my major was music, so that was what I did, mostly with my life, but I ended up going into science and I became medical technologist.
 
Michael Hingson ** 11:46
Uh huh, well, the mules, so you majored in music. Did you get any advanced degree or just get a bachelor’s?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 11:57
No, okay, I changed everything and decided that I need to make money instead, to survive,
 
Michael Hingson ** 12:05
yeah, you got to do some of that kind of stuff. Yeah, you do. It’s one of those, those things that happens. So what did you do after college?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 12:13
I got a job working for medical office in was kind of a clinic in Kansas City, Missouri, okay? And I spent probably 15 years there, maybe, maybe more I remember for sure, and that’s, that’s what I did. Then after that, I retired and raised a bunch of kids.
 
Michael Hingson ** 12:42
Well, that’s a worthwhile endeavor.
 
12:46
It’s stressful.
 
Michael Hingson ** 12:50
Well, you know, but as long as they don’t call you mean, then that probably counts for something.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 12:56
Yeah, they didn’t call me mean. Well,
 
Michael Hingson ** 13:00
there you are. So you you did all of your your acting and movies and so on, kind of at a younger age, you didn’t go back into doing any of that. No, I
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 13:11
didn’t, but I did get active in the theater scene in the Kansas City area. So I did quite a few plays, and I had a really good time doing that. Okay, only problem with that is you have to memorize so much.
 
Michael Hingson ** 13:27
Yeah, you can’t use cue cards and you can’t use a script,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 13:30
yeah? So I tried to work and do that, yeah, it’s kind of tough, but I did. I the last one I did. I think I was 40 something, but it was fun. I loved it.
 
Michael Hingson ** 13:44
So what, what kind of maybe famous plays were you in?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 13:49
Not famous? They were small ones. And honestly, I can’t even remember what they were. I it’s in my mind, one, the last one was musical, and it was kind of a Western. I can’t remember what it was to save my soul, but that’s, that’s privilege of getting old.
 
Michael Hingson ** 14:09
Yeah, you never know. You might remember one of these days,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 14:14
yeah, oh, I will, I’m sure, probably about an hour from now.
 
Michael Hingson ** 14:18
Yeah. Well, so going back earlier, what was the first movie you were in
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 14:27
that night with you, and that starred, Oh, see, there goes. My mind again. It was an opera singer. Can’t think of Suzanne, York, oh, okay, and it had Irene Ryan, who was in the hillbillies. She was a maid. And it was, it was a Christmas scene, or it was section of the movie where I was one of. Five orphans that were sent. This opera singer wanted us to give us a Christmas night. We were from an orphanage, and so she had us come. We were going to spend the night, and she had presents for us and all that sort of thing. And the first thing I did was break an ornament on the Christmas tree. Oh, dear. Ah, so the kids got mad at me, because they knew we were going to be sent back to the orphanage. But anyway, in the end, she held me on her lap and sang a lullaby to me, and I will always remember that.
 
Michael Hingson ** 15:39
Yeah, you mentioned Irene, Ryan, granny, which was, yeah, she was in. She played a maid. What a character she
 
15:46
was. She was a maid.
 
Michael Hingson ** 15:50
Then what did you do after that movie? How old were you for that movie? I was four. You’re four. So you do remember it sort of, yeah.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 16:01
Just don’t remember names particularly. I mean, yeah, but you were really funny about it that the there was one agent, pretty much, that had all the kids in her stable that worked in the movies back then. It was an easy thing, and she had Jimmy Hawkins, who was Tommy, and it’s a wonderful life. And she also had his older brother, and his older brother was in that particular movie with me, so it was kind of a family affair all every time you went to an audition or an interview you saw the same kids over and over.
 
Michael Hingson ** 16:49
Well, how did you end up then being in It’s a Wonderful Life. What? What did they what does it think and decide that you were the person for
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 17:01
it. Well, nothing really special. You know, I went on the interview back in the day. They didn’t have what they do today. They had interviews where you went, and you had a one on one situation. Maybe five or six us girls would go to the interview, and then they’d bring another batch in, and that’s kind of how it went. And most of us, as I say, had the same agent, so we, my mother took me to the interview, to the and it’s like, it’s not like an audition, it’s an interview, and you actually go in and talk to casting director. And you know, you know, do what they tell you to do. So in this particular interview, there was a little girl who accidentally spilled some coffee on my dress. Her mother’s coffee on my dress, because so back then, we all wore dresses, and I just didn’t think a thing about it didn’t bother me to have a dirty dress. I just I went in and did my interview. When I went in there, I meant Frank Capra was in, ah, and he interviewed and and cast every single person in that film, even the extras. That’s how precise he was. But I went in there, and I remember he asked me how I would look, how I would act if I lost my dog and he died. I gave him my spiel, all with a dirty dress, but didn’t bother me a bit. Came out, and then when we were leaving, I heard my mother mentioned to one of the other mothers that she felt like that, that girl’s mother had had her spilling on purpose so they would intimidate me. But I didn’t know it. I didn’t realize it, and didn’t bother me a bit.
 
Michael Hingson ** 19:11
What did you say when Frank Capra asked me that question? Do you remember?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 19:16
Well, I I didn’t say anything.
 
Michael Hingson ** 19:20
I just looked, no, I mean, about the dog?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 19:22
Well, I just looked, oh, you know, yeah, squeezed up kind of teared, and was unhand picked. That was, you know, there was no line involved. It was just that, well, she must ask the other lines, but I don’t remember, I just remember that.
 
Michael Hingson ** 19:46
So what was he like to work with?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 19:49
He was wonderful, absolutely wonderful. He would get down on his knees so that he could communicate with those kids. And I. I thought that was really great, and I’m sure you got a lot more out of us by doing that. Rather than looking down on us and telling us what he wanted
 
Michael Hingson ** 20:09
us to do, he made you feel like a part of it all.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 20:13
Yes, he did. He gave us a lot of power that way.
 
Michael Hingson ** 20:17
Yeah, and what was it like working with Jimmy Stewart and Donna Reed.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 20:22
Well, you know, I didn’t have any scenes with Donna Reed, except that being the movie, that’s true. I didn’t have any interaction with her. I had no lines. I don’t even remember Donna Reed, but he was my focal point. Jimmy Stewart was fabulous. He was kind, considerate, and I fluffed a line in the pedal scene, and he said that, that’s all right, Carolyn, you’ll get it right next time. And it was things like that, you know, that made a difference between, if you messed up online, where they would get aggravated with you, and then you probably mess it up again. But he did the right thing. He made me not feel bad about it, and encouraged me to do it again.
 
Michael Hingson ** 21:17
It’s, it’s interesting, and it, it’s a great lesson to you know, to point out that when when people help empower and they aren’t negative and are encouraging no matter what you’re doing, that counts for a lot. And I I find that when I encounter people who just decide they’re going to be mean because they got to boss you around and do all sorts of obnoxious things to try to intimidate you and so on. In the long run, that is just so unproductive, it seems to me.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 21:49
Yes, I agree. I don’t see what it accomplishes.
 
Michael Hingson ** 21:53
Yeah, so I can appreciate what you’re saying, and it makes a lot of sense. Well, I’m glad, and I always thought that Jimmy Stewart was that kind of a person, both he and Cary Grant both seemed sensitive, really concerned about people succeeding. They weren’t jerks.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 22:13
No, they weren’t. And caught up with him later in life, he was getting calls from a lot of people about whatever happened to that little girl. And so he had one of his secretaries Call Me and find Me and and he called me and we had chat. And here I am in Missouri. He’s in Hollywood. That was pretty cool when you’re 40 years old. When that was the first year I ever saw the movie after I talked to him. So that was kind of how it went. But then after that, I met him in New York at a function, and we spent some time together, and he was delightful, so kind, so
 
Michael Hingson ** 23:01
generous. I remember when I first saw part of It’s a Wonderful Life. It was back in the day when there was regular television. Then there was UHF, which was everything above, basically channel 13. And you had to have special at that time receivers to receive it. And one day I was, I just come home from high school, from classes, and I turned on the television, and it was a UHF channel, and I started scrolling across, and all of a sudden I heard Jimmy Stewart’s voice, and I went, What’s that? And it took me a couple of minutes of listening to it to figure out what the movie was, because I had heard about it enough that I I figured it out, but I listened to about half the movie, and then later I found the whole movie and watched it. And of course, also since then, I have had the opportunity to listen to radio broadcasts of it, like Lux radio theater and so on, where, where they did it. But I remember it well, yes, so did you do much of anything in in radio?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 24:13
Then? Not really, not really. I can remember being on the radio for the opening night of the bishop’s club. That was really exciting.
 
Michael Hingson ** 24:28
It’s a lot of interesting movies back then. You know, It’s a Wonderful Life The Bishop’s wife in 1947 also, there was Miracle on 34th Street that people thought was never going to go anywhere. And it and also,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 24:43
I’m sorry, still alive today, it
 
Michael Hingson ** 24:46
is and, and it’s a classic. All three of them are classics and, and should be, right? So what did you do after the bishop’s wife, from movie standpoint?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 24:59
Oh. Um, I think I really don’t remember exactly, but I did some movies that were westerns, and I really liked those. They were really fun. I did Rio Grande John Wayne and off Scott and I did honey child with Judy Canova.
 
Michael Hingson ** 25:28
I’ll bet that was a
 
25:29
was a hoot. It was a hoot. What
 
Michael Hingson ** 25:33
was Judy Canova like?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 25:36
Well, she was really nice. I played her niece, and I lived with her, and she was very nice. It’s like that this particular movie, her mother had just died, so she was kind of not all happy, herself, still mourning, but she was very nice and considerate. And you know, she’s the one that’s saying, I’ll be coming around when I come. Yeah, she’ll be coming around the corner when she comes. That was what I always remembered her for, yeah.
 
Michael Hingson ** 26:15
Oh, she was always quite the character.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 26:18
Oh, she was and she though she had that voice that was unusual.
 
Michael Hingson ** 26:27
So what? What did you do? What was your role in Rio Grande with John Wayne and marine O’Hara?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 26:39
I was the school teacher’s daughter, and we lived on a fort. We were in Moab, you daughter? Film it. Yeah, we lived on a fort. And I, my uncle was Victor McLachlan. And so the Indians came and raided us, and he they saved us and put us in a wagon to send us off to be safe. But the Indians got us and killed my mom and put us in the top of a Chapel Church, and that’s where we were. And so they the three of the the people, I can’t think of their names again. That’s problem for me names, but I’ll think of them eventually. They rescued us kids, and Victor McLachlan came to get me when the Calvary had gotten there, and I’m on a plat, kind of a platform, ringing the bell. I was ringing a bell throughout this movie, and I hit a bell. I hit Harry Carey Junior over the head with a bell. I always had a bell, so I’m ringing this giant bell to say it’s okay for the Calgary to come in. And Vic McLachlan had to pull me off the platform and get me out the door and into a wagon to be rescued, because all his kids were being rescued. And so when he pulled me off that platform, I had this little dress on, and I got a big bad splinter in my bottom. Oh, gosh, it was horrible. It hurt so bad I was going to say, I bet it did. You can never show anything like that. So I did not show it. I just jumped off into his arms, and that was it.
 
Michael Hingson ** 28:44
Well, I would presume they eventually got the splitter out. Well, my
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 28:48
mom did, yeah, those things happen.
 
Michael Hingson ** 28:53
So what was it like working with John Wayne and Marie? No Hara, what both, what characters they are? Oh,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 29:02
yeah. Well, John Wayne was just a booming voice. Yeah, he was a huge figure. He I didn’t really have any relationship with him, but I had a birthday in the Fourth of July while I was there, ah, and the Korean flicked. Had just broken out. It was 1950 and the government had commandeered airplanes, so John Wayne managed to have airplane bring in a bunch of supplies, and it was one of them was a big, giant birthday cake for me, and bunch of fireworks. He had $300 worth of fireworks, and so we he threw me a party out on Colorado River bluffs, and we had glass. Do is really so funny. Said Happy birthday Little Miss Carolyn and Pat way and his son, who’s my age, was out there too. He was he and Michael on school break for summer, and so they were part of the film. He was my age, so we hung around a lot. We were kind of upset because all we got to do with all those fireworks, two little sparklers, what
 
Michael Hingson ** 30:32
was marine O’Hara like?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 30:38
I guess maybe she and Mr. Ford didn’t get along very well, and she had a temper. He had a
 
Michael Hingson ** 30:47
temper, an Irish temper, yes, yes.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 30:50
And I saw a lot of that. And one particular time we were in, they had a limo that would take us from the motel to the set which was on the Colorado River, and it was on this person’s ranch. So we go down this terribly dangerous road to go to his ranch. At least it was dangerous to me. I was scared, definitely going to Fall River, yeah, because it was right on the edge. But she was angry, and we were in this limo, and she was with her hairdresser. They were in the front row, and my mother and I were in the back of the limo. She was cursing and carrying on about mister Ford, and I didn’t pay any attention to it. And so her hairdresser said, Miss O’Hara, there’s, there’s a little girl in the back. She just kept right on going. But when she said that, I started paying attention what she was in and she was just a string of curses. It was so bad, she was so angry, and it was so funny. So she didn’t, it didn’t bother her to swear in front of the little child.
 
Michael Hingson ** 32:14
Just think how much language and how much elocution you learned, huh? Oh no, I did because, oh
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 32:19
yeah, potential, until she said that, then I listened.
 
Michael Hingson ** 32:25
Just rounded out your vocabulary. Oh,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 32:28
yes, I’ve never heard words like that, and
 
Michael Hingson ** 32:32
probably never did again, no, than the ones you used, but, you know, but still. Oh, that’s, that’s pretty cool, though. So, did you ever have any kind of an opportunity to reunite and be with all of the Bailey family again from the movie?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 32:53
Yes, in 1993 or four? Wow. It was quite a while, 60 years later, yeah, um, I had already been in contact with little Tommy. We’ve been conversing on a phone for about five years, but the target tour had, It’s a Wonderful Life is a sort of a theme in their stores that year, and so they thought it would be a good ploy to have a reunion with the Bailey kids. So they brought us all together and put us on a tour. And that was when we all met up again, and I was so excited to do it, and that’s the first time I actually saw people’s response to this movie. We were in an autographed line at some of the targets that we went to, and people would come through the line and they share their stories about how the movie had affected their lives, and I was so impressed. I well, I just couldn’t forget it. And so from that time forward, I became very enamored of sharing messages with other people, and I started doing various appearances and things like that.
 
Michael Hingson ** 34:23
Yeah. So what other kinds of appearances have you done?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 34:28
Oh my gosh, I couldn’t even begin to tell you lots. Well, that’s good. All different kinds. I mean, you know, all different kinds.
 
34:38
Have you had
 
34:40
Go ahead. Thanks.
 
Michael Hingson ** 34:43
Have you had any or any significant number of appearances and interviews on television over the years?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 34:50
No, just interviews, lots of interviews, live interviews. Yeah, yes, that’s all never involved with anything again. And, but, yeah, I think I might do something kind of fun in September
 
Michael Hingson ** 35:08
March or in in Washington.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 35:11
No, no, what in Ireland?
 
Michael Hingson ** 35:15
In Ireland, be gosh and be Garda. Yes, what are you going to
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 35:19
do? They’re going, they’re filming movie about Jimmy Stewart. Oh, and they want me to do a cameo. Well, cool. Isn’t that fun?
 
Michael Hingson ** 35:31
That’ll be exciting. Yes, I’m really excited. Wow. So long later. I, yeah, you know, I, I, I’ve seen, of course, movies with Jimmy Stewart, and I remember seeing him once on The Tonight Show, Later in the period of The Tonight Show and so on. And I’m not sure how long after that, he he passed, but I remember his his appearance, which was kind of fun.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 35:59
Did you happen to hear him when he did the poem about his dog bull.
 
Michael Hingson ** 36:04
Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking of. That’s the one I saw
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 36:07
that was so tender and true. It was just really something.
 
Michael Hingson ** 36:13
And the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson was such a wonderful show. I watched reruns of it regularly on some of the channels, and I just think that it’s so much more fun than a lot of what we see in late night TV. Today, I do miss Johnny Carson. Yes, did you ever, did you ever meet him?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 36:32
No, I didn’t.
 
Michael Hingson ** 36:38
Well still, I remember old Bo
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 36:43
Yes, he was a wonderful man. Yeah, they did a special thing in 19 a, 1990 it was they had a special event that was honoring him and all the people that he worked with, Allison, you know, all the stars that he’d work with. And so he invited me to come. So I went to New York, and I just had a really wonderful time about to meet his wife, and it was just good old fun just to see him again, because he was just such a down to earth man, yeah, and he just was so kind and so generous that it was a real, real exciting moment For me, that’s for sure.
 
Michael Hingson ** 37:40
I watch him occasionally now, because he is regular, not regularly, but he’s often on the Jack Benny show. And the Jack Benny show is being run on a couple on some of the TV stations, and so it’s kind of fun to see the by play between he and his wife and Jack Benny. And, of course, Jack Benny, it’s the traditional Jack Benny image. But the shows are so much fun, yes? And clearly, Jimmy Stewart, well, all of them have a lot of fun doing those shows.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 38:17
Yeah, I think they did. Yeah. Those old radio shows were so great. I really enjoyed them back in the day well.
 
Michael Hingson ** 38:29
And I find that when people really enjoy what they do, and you see that come out in even on some of the earlier television shows, with the radio shows, it makes such a difference, because you can feel the energy that’s coming from people.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 38:48
You do. You really do.
 
Michael Hingson ** 38:52
If people don’t enjoy what they’re doing, that comes through. And you you can tell so it’s it’s fun, when people really enjoy it. Well, how did you get involved with the Marshfield Cherry Blossom Festival? You’ve been doing that for a while,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 39:14
a long years, more than I true. Well, Nicholas called me. He runs the festival. I can’t tell you what year it was, but it probably was early 80s. Maybe, wow, no, wouldn’t have been early 80s. Sorry, no. Probably in early 2000 okay? And he called me and asked me if I would come down and be in the festival. So I said, Okay, and so. We flew back and went to the festival, and it was Dean Martin’s daughter was there, and one of the Munchkins was there. Can’t think of his name. One lived in St Louis, character. He was there. Couple of other people that were there, you know, old stars, and it rained, it snowed, and it was just, it was awful. It sweeted. It was just really bad. So there wasn’t much of a turnout, and it was kind of a disappointment to Nicholas, I think because it since then they’ve changed the date, so it’s a little later in the year. And yeah, you know, kind of count on the weather being a little better. But then I didn’t come back for about two years, and then he called me King, and from that time forward, I went back every year, and one of the special things that happened by being there was that the lady who played violet bit, young, Violet bit, she can’t think of her name, but I’m really bad At names today. Yeah, way she she was a psychologist, and for the last, oh, I guess long, maybe eight years before I met her, Jimmy Hawkins, the littlest boy in the movie, and myself, had tried to get her involved with the film, and what the things that we did for the film, and she wouldn’t have anything to do with it, because she thought it was Hollywood, and she didn’t believe in that, and this was the only movie she did. So someone by the name of Nicholas convinced her to come that year. So she came, and she her son brought her, and when she saw how much that movie is loved and how it had affected so many people and their story, she got the first hand view of that that was then for her. She decided she wanted to be a part of It’s a Wonderful Life from then on, did they
 
Michael Hingson ** 42:27
show the movie that you’re at the festival? No, oh, okay,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 42:32
no, she just came,
 
Michael Hingson ** 42:34
and so many people just talked about it.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 42:37
Yeah, yeah. She she finally realized that people really loved the movie. Of course, she saw it after that, because after that little appearance, I say you’re coming to Seneca Falls. I won’t take no for an answer. So her son brought her every year after that, and of course, we saw the movie dead, and she had experienced the real love that the people had for the film and for the characters in the film.
 
Michael Hingson ** 43:12
What was it like being around and working with Lionel Barrymore,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 43:20
well, I really wasn’t around him very much. We had cast fish shoes sometimes, and he he was in his he was really in a wheelchair. He had crippling arthritis. It’s terrible. His hands are all gnarled. And I really didn’t talk to him or having any interaction with him. I might have been in scene with him, or we’ve done publicity photos with him, but I don’t, I don’t remember ever
 
Michael Hingson ** 43:50
interacting with him, with him that much, yeah,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 43:53
but he wasn’t scary, yeah?
 
Michael Hingson ** 43:57
Well, that’s a start. Not, not like marine O’Hara huh?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 44:01
No, no. And they had a cast party at the end of movie. Most movies after they’re finished, had a cast party, uh huh? This one was celebrating the end of its wonderful life. And so he, he came and I got to talk to him without, you know, he had a skull cap on, and it raised his forehead about two inches, so he had real elongated, big forehead, and took more hair off his head, so he looked meaner. That was the idea. So he didn’t have that on you just look like a normal man and everything, and he didn’t look mean. And so I chatted with him. He was fine. He wasn’t really a nice guy.
 
Michael Hingson ** 44:51
Again, it’s one of those things where he was perfect for that part, though.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 44:55
Oh yes, he was perfect. Yeah.
 
Michael Hingson ** 45:00
It was, it was fun. And I, I think, at the time, when I first saw the movie, I didn’t even know that he was the person who played Mr. Potter, but I didn’t, I didn’t realize that because I was young enough, but I hadn’t really learned about different characters and and different actors, but I figured it out soon enough. Yeah, so tell me about Zuzu house back there.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 45:30
Well, one night I was writing in a limo, and it was during the Christmas season. I was somewhere in New York, and I can’t remember where I was doing a gig, and Nicholas called me, and I’ll always remember it, because I was sitting in this room all and he said, Carolyn, I just discovered there are people in this community. This is very small town. Well, it’s a small town, and there are people who young people who don’t have a place to sleep. They’re sleeping on park benches. There’s this couch surfing, all this chippy said I had no idea this was going on. I want us to start a house and make it possible for them to have shelter. And so he said, The reason I’m calling you is because I want to know if it’s alright if I name it the Zuzu house. So I said, Well, of course, go right ahead. So from then on, I became active with the Zuzu house and their foundation and their situation, all that they do. Unfortunately, covid happened right after that, and it made it really hard to get, you know, materials, building materials, and things like that that we needed to finish it. So it took a long time to finish the house, but it’s finished now, and it houses now. It houses is us refuse for women from mean men, I guess, and that’s what it is. So I’m proud to be part of it, and they did such a fabulous job. It’s a great, wonderful, beautiful facility, and it’s way out in the country, and it’s really a place where they can get their marbles all on sack again.
 
Michael Hingson ** 47:33
How far is it from Marshfield? Um, I didn’t get to go there when I was there last year.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 47:40
My guess is about 30 minutes. Oh, okay.
 
Michael Hingson ** 47:47
Well, now the the the other question I would ask is, as you pointed out, the reason that the women are there, so do you go and teach them elocution, like how Marino Hara talk so that they can, yeah, I just just say, help them out, you know,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 48:08
yeah, I learned a lot there.
 
Michael Hingson ** 48:12
But yeah, that that’s really cool, that that you, you do that. Well, tell me about Seneca Falls, or, should we say, Bedford Falls, and what goes on there, and, yes, what you do and so on. I’ll always think of it just Bedford Falls, but
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 48:27
most people do,
 
Michael Hingson ** 48:29
as opposed to potters field, you know. But yeah,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 48:34
about seeing my this is my 23rd year. So 23 years ago, God, I can’t believe it’s that long. I knew cameraman on the Oprah show. It’s very good friend of mine. And so it was September, and he called me and he said, Oh my god, Carolyn, this is it. This is the town you’ve got to come here. You’ve got to come He says, I’m going to go talk to somebody. And that was the last I heard. But he talked to somebody, the right person who knew what it was about and saw the possibilities. And so her name was mo cock at the time. Her name is Young. Now mo young, but she went to the Historical Society and got funding and turned it around real fast so that they could create an event for me to come and appear. So I did, and I landed in Rochester, I believe what drove to Seneca Falls, and it was snowing, and I there was no one on the streets. There was no one around. And she drive, drove up to the Main Street and open. The car door. When we just walked on Main Street, the bridge was there. It was all lit up, yeah, lit up on each post, lamp post. And it was the most wonderful experience, because I really felt like this was the place, if Frank Kaplan wanted to see a place that would inspire him to build bamboo falls, this would be the place to come. And I was so impressed. And I just loved it. So I came back every year after that, yeah, and, and then I started inviting other people like Jimmy Hawkins and Jamie, who Carol Coombs, who played Jamie, and, you know, other people. And so it was very neat event. And I even invited the babies who played Larry, the oldest boy in the movie. You know, they have a they have to have twins to play babies, because they can’t be under the lights so long. So they rotate them. And so that was, that was really kind of incredible, too. Now, it’s a huge affair and it
 
Michael Hingson ** 51:21
never had anything to do with the movie originally, right?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 51:25
We’re not sure. I actually think that Frank Capra had an aunt in Aurora, which is south of that town, and there’s a barber there that he swears that he cut Capra’s hair, and when I first started going there, what, 20 years ago, he was still alive. So I talked to him, and I said, Do you really think that was Frank Capra? And he said, Yes, I do. I really do. And he said, You know, I cut his hair, and I will always remember we chatted, and he said he was from Sicily, and I was from Sicily too, so we had a lot of calm. And he said his last name was Capra, and it means goat in Italian. And Tommy’s name, the barber’s name is bellissimo, which means beautiful. So he said, I always remember cutting the goat’s hair. Wow, I saw three weeks later in a newspaper, there was an article about him going to make the movie. It’s a wonderful love. So he said I knew that was who he was, yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 52:54
so he had clearly been there, and imagery made such an impression on him,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 53:03
and also on the bridge, there’s a plaque, and he would have seen this, and it was for a young Italian immigrant. And of course, you know, capper was strong Italian. And this young Italian immigrant didn’t know how to swim, but he jumped in the canal to save the life of a wasp woman who was committing suicide, and he made her her get out of our she got out of the water safely, and he died, he didn’t know how to swim. So it was a huge thing back then, and it brought the community together. You know, there was the Italian side and and the the other side. And this brought everybody together. And it, it turned out that the they brought the whole family, his whole family, over, because they were, you know, what, wanted to do something, because they appreciated what he’d done so much to say that woman’s life. And so I think camper would have seen that and that plaque, and he would have learned a story, and maybe that gave him some ideas about It’s A Wonderful Life.
 
Michael Hingson ** 54:28
I don’t know a lot about Frank Capra, but it’s fascinating to hear the stories that you’re telling, because it it certainly portrays him as a not only a caring person, but a person who pays attention to a lot of detail. The very fact that that he was in that town, and all the imagery and all the things that he brought to it had to, had to be very relevant. Well, all
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 54:56
the names of the streets in the town are. The movie, or, you know, quite a few of them, yeah, and the main street had a part of it at that time that had trees down the middle of it. And there’s just so many things in in the town that are applicable to the film. And I used to know tons more when I was trying to convince everybody that this was the place. But now I don’t have to remember those anymore, because people already know there are 1000s and 1000s of people that go through the town and feel the magic that now then we, we the gift shop is making it possible for people to remember their loved ones by putting bells on the bridge. And it’s really, you know, become something. And then the museum, which I helped start, is really a cool museum, but they are getting a new museum, which is going to be much larger because they can’t even begin to display all the things they have.
 
Michael Hingson ** 56:14
Well, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting how all of this has has come up, but none of the filming of the movie was was done there. It was all in Hollywood, right? Oh, yes, but, but still, the the imagery and the vision that that people have, that brought you and everyone together to create that celebration is certainly great for the town. I love that one is it? I’m just going to have to show up. It’s a Christmas event every year, right?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 56:47
Yes, yeah. There’s a 5k run, and they start on the bridge. And there’s a few serious people in the beginning, some fellas and gals that want to win. But after that, let me tell you, it’s fun. There are people dressed like Christmas trees. They got lights all over themselves. They they light up their dogs, their babies, their strollers, and they’re all in this run, and it’s five miles. And at some of the they go through the residential district, and some of the houses they have the booths give them a little bit of hot toddy and so forth to get them on
 
Michael Hingson ** 57:29
the way. Yeah, in Christmas time, I would think so it’s just
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 57:33
a lot of fun. And people love it. And I always started every time they have it. I’ve always started it, so that’s kind of a tradition.
 
Michael Hingson ** 57:46
So you have done some cameos, like Gremlins and Christmas vacation, right? Well, yeah, cameo appearances,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 57:55
yeah, I guess you say that, yeah. What was that like? Well, it’s, it was just, you know, the movie they showed the movie, yeah, so that was, that was all. It was just, they showed the movie just like they showed it in Christmas vacation. And somehow, when they show the movie, it’s always when Zuzu is saying that line. Oh,
 
Michael Hingson ** 58:21
okay, so it’s not so much you as it is the the original movie, yeah, it’s little Zuzu well, but it’s a great line. I mean, you know, well, it is. I remember last year, wasn’t it? I think at the reps event. We’ll get to that in a sec. But I remember getting some bells from you, and I actually, I think I told you I was going to send one to my cousin, and I let you say hello to her, and she got that bell and was completely blown away. She loves it. Oh, good. And I have the bell. I have my bell sitting out in open plain sight for the world to see, and I go by and ring it every so often. Oh, great. Oh, well, we gotta have those angels out. So what kind of events and things do you do typically, or do you like to to enjoy doing it Christmas?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 59:20
Um, I kind of work during Christmas. Well, that’s my season, and so I do gift shows. I do appearances, I introduce the movie. I do I’m on the road the whole time, and I love it, because I interact with these wonderful people who love the movie. And if they love the movie, believe me, they are wonderful people.
 
Michael Hingson ** 59:45
Yeah, undoubtedly, so well, so you you also have been involved with some of the radio recreations from from reps. And what do you think about that? How do you like that? Do.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 59:59
Oh, my goodness, so much fun. And I’m old enough to remember a
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:00:04
lot of the shows.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 1:00:07
No, I remember very well. And, you know, I it was just a whole bunch of fun to do that and recreate these scenes from older raining days. And I remember my mother and father bought a brand new Frazier. It’s a car, and I’m sure nobody’s ever heard of Kaiser Fraser cars, because that was the ugliest name car in my life. But they had to have that car. And I remember when we got the car, my dad was offered he could either have a heater and he could afford to pay for either a heater or a radio. And he chose the radio. So I heard inner sanctum. I heard all these wonderful, wonderful plays. Back in the day, all these shows from the radio.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:01:07
I came in near the the so called traditional end of radio, probably actually 1957 so I had five years, but almost from the beginning, I always wanted to collect more of the shows and did, and then also did a radio program for six and a half, almost seven years at the campus radio station where I worked, kuci. We did radio every Sunday night, so I had three hours of radio. And I love to tell people I heard about this show on television called 60 minutes. But my show was opposite Mike Wallace, and mine went for three hours, and his was only an hour, but it was like seven years before I got to watch 60 minutes and and learn about it, because we had shows every year or every every Sunday night, and we had a deputy sheriff who called from the Orange County jail once to tell me. He said, You know, you guys have created a real challenge for us, because he said, so many people have heard about what you do, some of a lot of our inmates, that on Sunday nights, we have to split the jail and send half people up, half the people upstairs, where there’s enough radio reception, they can listen to your show, and the other half listens to and watches 60 minutes, which I always thought was kind of cute. So you do a podcast now too, don’t you?
 
1:02:34
I do tell us
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:02:36
about that. I know we were focused on it. Yeah,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 1:02:39
Chris and I do it. He’s He’s a psychologist, and we interview all kinds of people, all walks of life, yeah.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:02:51
How long has it been running now,
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 1:02:54
this is second year, okay,
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:02:57
well, I don’t know. Chris hasn’t said a single word during this whole thing.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 1:03:01
Oh, he’s not here. What good is he, you know, right?
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:03:09
Well, so you know, we’ve been, can you believe what we’ve been doing? This an hour?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 1:03:14
Oh, really, I did not know. I’m
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:03:18
telling you, time flies when you’re having fun. Is there kind of anything that you want to talk about that maybe we haven’t yet, any any last questions or thoughts that you have that you want to bring up?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 1:03:31
No, I don’t think so. I think we’ve covered it pretty good. We’ve, we’ve,
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:03:37
we’ve done a lot. But you know, it’s really wonderful to to have you on if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that?
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 1:03:45
They can reach me at Carolyn, K, A R, o l, y n, dot Wilkerson, W, I, L, k, e r, s o n@gmail.com,
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:04:01
okay. Well, hopefully people will reach out, and if they want to also have a website, I was going to ask
 
1:04:10
you that zoo, zoo.net,
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:04:12
well, you can’t do better than that. And what’s the podcast called
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 1:04:22
seeing this is the thing with names. There it goes again. You think, I know? Oh, my goodness, I can’t remember. Oh, tell you, I’m getting old. It’s getting worse and worse.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:04:36
All grown up is the puppy. All grown up, all grown ups. Oh, Carolyn, Carol, well, there you go. Well, yeah, and I, I enjoyed being on it. Well, I’m sorry we’re going to miss seeing you at reps, because I won’t be able to be there. I had told Walden, and walden’s actually been on unstoppable mindset now a couple of. On, but I had told him he and I had talked about me doing Richard diamond private detective and actually playing Richard diamond. And I said, I want Carolyn to play Helen Asher. So we’ll now have to postpone, postpone that till next year,
 
1:05:14
but we’re going to do it. Yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:05:17
yeah. It’ll be fun. I Richard diamond has always been kind of really my favorite radio show, and I think I can carry off that voice pretty well.
 
Karolyn Grimes ** 1:05:27
So it’ll be fun. Yeah, it will well.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:05:30
I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening to us today, reminisce and talk about all sorts of stuff. Love to hear your thoughts. Please feel free to email me at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, and, of course, wherever you’re observing the podcast today, I hope that you’ll give us a five star rating. Karolyn deserves a five star rating, even if you don’t think I do do it for Karolyn. We love to have great reviews. We appreciate it. And Karolyn for you and everyone out there who is listening and watching. If you know anyone else who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, we’d love it if you’d reach out and let us know, give us an introduction. I think everyone has a story to tell, and I enjoy getting the opportunity to to visit with people and hear stories. So please, if you have any thoughts, introduce us. We’d love to to meet other people. But again, Karolyn, I really appreciate you being here, and I want to thank you for being with us today.
 
1:06:38
My pleasure being here.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:06:42
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.