Episode 298 – Unstoppable Chief Obstacle Buster with Gail Sussman-Miller

Gail Sussman-Miller founded Inspired Choice in 2001. She took the title of Chief Obstacle Buster which describes her perfectly. Gail lived her entire life in Chicago Illinois until she and her husband moved to Sarasota Florida in 2019.

While Gail grew up thinking she should be a teacher along the way she decided she did not wish to teach youngsters. She recognized that her talents were put to better use teaching and coaching adults. She makes it quite clear that she has fun and great joy working with adults.

She will say that some people want to be coached and some who think coaching for them is not necessary. I would say that Gail urges people to approach the coaching experience with an open mind. She is, as you will hear, quite successful at her work.

About the Guest:

Gail Sussman-Miller, Chief Obstacle Buster at Inspired Choice, helps women leaders leverage, rather than squelch, feminine power and abilities they don’t realize they possess, so they live their most authentic, joy-filled life. She is an expert at guiding women to deliberately choose their thoughts and beliefs to design desired experiences and results. Gail’s techniques shape new perspectives that reduce stress, discomfort and procrastination which increases decisive action, inner peace and resilience amidst the uncertainty of life. The bottom line is increased freedom and more joy!

Clients find Gail’s perspective-shifting techniques, practical tactical action steps, and spiritually-inspired wisdom indispensable. Her rare gift, shared by 7% of leaders assessed, is she senses and sees things few people see, speaks that truth and offers actionable ways for participants to thrive and fulfill their soul’s desires.

The biggest demand and focus of Gail’s coaching is strengthening the efficacy and collaboration in challenging conversations and relationships by combining truth, authenticity, and vulnerability.

Professional background. Gail has been teaching executives and women at all levels to turn obstacles into opportunities since 2001 as a coach, facilitator, speaker, and trainer. She received her training as a professional coach at the Coaches Training Institute (CTI) in 2001. Gail is certified in the EQi-2.0 emotional intelligence assessment by MHS, a well-known publisher of psychological assessments. Prior to founding Inspired Choice, Gail delivered computer job training for visually-impaired adults and spent 13 years at Andersen Consulting (Accenture) in Marketing, Knowledge Management and Technology Coaching. After a lifetime in Chicago, Gail made Sarasota, Florida her home in 2019. www.inspiredchoice.com

Ways to connect with Gail:

Gail@inspiredchoice.com
www.inspiredchoice.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gailsussmanmillerr
https://www.facebook.com/GailSussmanMiller/

About the Host:

Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.

Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.

https://michaelhingson.com
https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/
https://twitter.com/mhingson
https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/

accessiBe Links
https://accessibe.com/
https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe
https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/

https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/

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Transcription Notes:

Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.
 
Michael Hingson ** 01:21
Well, a pleasant hello to you. Wherever you happen to be today, you are listening to unstoppable mindset, and my name is Michael Hingson. You can call me Mike if you want. It’s okay as well. I am the host of unstoppable mindset, and today we get to chat with Gail Sussman-Miller, who is are you ready? Here it comes, Chief obstacle. Buster, I love that, and she is the chief obstacle Buster at inspired choice, which is an organization that she founded. She has been a coach for, wow, 23 years. You started in 2001 I think you said, And so anyway, this will be a fun conversation. She’s got lots to talk to us about, and we’ve been talking for the last few minutes about how to talk about some of the visual stuff to an audience that isn’t necessarily going to see it. And that isn’t because the people who aren’t going to see it are blind. It’s because they’re not watching this, but listening to it on a podcast site, so you guys get to experience things the way some of the rest of us do. But anyway, Gail, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We’re really glad you’re here.
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 02:32
Thanks, Michael. I’m honored to be here, and I’ve had fun getting to know you as we get ready for this. Yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 02:39
well, and it’s been good to get to know you and get a chance to really chat. Let’s start, if we could by maybe you telling us sort of a little bit about the early Gale, growing up and some of that stuff, always a good way to start right. That could take an hour, but I’ll leave it up to you. It reminds
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 02:54
me of the movie, I think was called the jerk that Stephen Martin was in, and he starts out saying, I was born a poor, black child. Started with his anyway, so I grew
 
Michael Hingson ** 03:10
up. I was born, I was born modest, some people have said, but it wore off. But anyway, you were born in Chicago, and I was born in Chicago.
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 03:20
Yeah, I grew up on north side, so yes, I’m a Cubs fan.
 
Michael Hingson ** 03:25
I was south side, and I still love the Cubs, Hopelessly Devoted
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 03:29
and lived my entire life actually in the city limits. Sometimes people say they’re from Chicago to give people a reference, and they really live in the suburbs. So I loved, I would say all Yes, actually, all my residences were within two miles of Lake Michigan, and I love being near water. So grew up. I’m the the eldest of two girls, and close to my cousins, really great, close family. And then I went to college at Northern Illinois University, got a degree in teaching elementary and special ed at a time when there was a surplus of teachers, and I wasn’t sure I wanted to do it as a career. And then I learned later in life that I love teaching, but actually prefer teaching adults. So it’s been an interesting evolution of I would say most of my jobs were just good enough. I was one of millions who believed you live for Fridays and work is something you do to make money because you have to. And it wasn’t until I was in my 40s that I found my ideal dream. Work, which is coaching and speaking and teaching, and I came home to a profession that I thought was just for me. It was perfect. It was great. And in the last five years, almost five years, we’ve been in Sarasota, Florida, made some permanent move and happy ever since, so
 
Michael Hingson ** 05:26
until you were in your 40s, were you teaching school or what were you doing? No,
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 05:30
I never became a teacher. It just wasn’t. I didn’t enjoy my student teaching. I did enjoy trying to parole and contain and control 2025 kids. I love children, so that was why I thought, Well, it’s interesting. When I went to college, I had no strong calling for a profession, so I enrolled in teaching as the Lacher of evils, if you will. It just was like, well, compared to being a scientist, computer engineer, or you name it, this, I like kids and I like teaching, I just didn’t like the combination.
 
Michael Hingson ** 06:15
So what did you do for jobs?
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 06:20
Oh, we’ll see if I can remember, there was a period of time where I worked for an educational publisher, because I thought, Okay, I have a teaching degree. Maybe this will be interesting. It was not. I spent some time even working as a temp because I was good at computers and word processing, as it was called in the day. Yes, and it’s so funny, Michael, I actually need my resume in front of me to tell you things in sequence. But the funny thing was, each thing led to something else. I think of my life as walking through a doorway and then going down a hall with lots of doorways, and then I choose another doorway, and that leads to another hall with doorways, and that’s how I wound up where I am. So at one point, I think it might have been after the education publisher. There were, there were literally, I’m I’m being this is proof how meaningless some of my jobs were. But I did spend four years in Chicago at the chicago lighthouse at the time, called Chicago Lighthouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired. I think they’ve changed their name now, and I taught transcription skills and typing to adults who then went on to get jobs and get placed. And that was the most gratifying thing I did, and that’s where I realized I much prefer teaching adults
 
Michael Hingson ** 08:01
you created a an interesting analogy, one that I subscribe to a lot. I think that each of us go through life making choices, and if you really sit down and think about it, you can trace your life back to and through the choices that you make. So you did a variety of things, and you discovered something with each choice and each thing that you went off and did, I can trace my life back because of the choices that I made. And I also studied teaching. I got a secondary teaching credential. And I actually thought of teaching, but then an opportunity to take a job in technology, actually working with Dr Ray Kurzweil and the National Federation of the Blind, with the development of the Kurzweil Reading Machine came along, and that led to working for Ray, and I was going to do human factors and continuing to do some of the work I did when we were all originally developing the first machine. But then after about eight months, I was confronted with a choice of either leaving the company or going into sales. And I decided, I love to tell people I lowered my standards from science and went into sales, which is not true, but I didn’t lower my standards, as it turns out. But what I what I discovered, and I always liked teaching, I always liked explaining, and what I discovered was that the best salespeople are teachers. They’re counselors. They really are involved in understanding what a customer’s needs are, and then teaching that customer about how to get those results, hopefully with their products, I’ve had some situations where the product that we had wasn’t the right solution, and of course, from. One standpoint that’s an ethical issue to deal with. Do I say it’s our product won’t work, or do I still try to sell it? My belief has always been, you take the ethical choice and I are a few times where we specifically said our product won’t work, but here’s what will but whenever that occurred, we developed a level of trust that then led to other opportunities later on, but teaching people and really advising and counseling was something that I enjoyed, but I but I hear what you’re saying about teaching adults. The question I would ask you is there are a lot of people who say that adults tend to be locked in and are much harder to teach than children. What do you think about
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 10:44
that? Oh, wow. I don’t think that’s ever it’s funny in a way. I don’t think that’s ever crossed my mind.
 
Michael Hingson ** 10:54
It’s like teaching language. You know, children learn language and additional languages.
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 11:00
Yeah, I would agree there. What I mean by that is, and what I thought you were going to ask me, so maybe I’ll answer it anyway, is what I liked more about working with adults, and I like being able to hold the adult accountable and responsible for their learning and for asking questions, for speaking up, all of that. It depends, I suppose, if the adult, if the person I’m working with, wants to be in the training slash coaching learning situation or not are very there was only one period of time as a contractor where I was matched with people without my meeting them or knowing them. Normally, my clients come to me and then I get to we see if we have a fit in both ways. So there were a few times where people were assigned to me and didn’t necessarily want to have coaching. But what I’m a master at is helping people look at their perspectives and shift them for their greater good. So it almost always worked out that I could say or get to help them see this is going to benefit you, whether you ask for it or not. And let’s figure out what it is you would most like to get out of it. Yeah? So enlisting, yeah, enlisting them, engaging them. And then I, I don’t think it’s ever been a challenge. In my opinion,
 
Michael Hingson ** 12:36
my wife was a teacher for a number of years, and she liked teaching third graders more than older kids, because she said a lot of the older kids had already developed their attitudes, whether taught by their parents or whatever, and developed habits that weren’t necessarily positive. And as a result, it was harder to work with them than it was to work with third graders, because third graders were at an age where she could get them to to think and to focus, and was able to get them to look at and hopefully learn the things that she was trying to Teach, whereas older kids she felt didn’t do that nearly as well. So that was an interesting observation that she had. And eventually she she left teaching because, well, here’s a story. She was going to do a Valentine’s Day party for her class, and she made a deal with the students. The parents were going to bring goodies and they were going to come and all that in the park. That. And the party was supposed to start at two o’clock, and she made a deal with her students, and I don’t know whether it was that morning or before, but she said, we’ll start the party when you all get your work done. Okay? And everybody agreed. Well, at two o’clock, kids had been goofing off and so on, so the party didn’t start. The parents had to wait outside, and it was like about 20 minutes late for the party to start. The kids finally finished the stuff they were supposed to do, and one parent pitched a real hissy fit and had her well, took her to the principal’s office. The principal called her in and said, what’s going on? The parents are not happy with what you did that day. And Karen brought the students in, who were the children of the parents, and the parents complained that she was too hard on the students and all that. And so Karen then said, Okay, kids, what was the arrangement that we had? And they all said we were supposed to get our work done before the party could start. Why didn’t we start the party on time? We didn’t get stuff done and that was it. You know, the principal told the parents, go away, go away. It is accountability. And Karen. Is really always great at accountability, and I love the concept of accountability, and when you’re creating teams and so on, the most basic fundamental is all about being able to hold each other accountable. And you don’t do it because it’s a personal thing, or you have an ax to grind, it’s because the whole team agrees that those are things that everyone can do. So I agree with you, accountability is important. That’s great.
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 15:29
I also think that if motivation is important, so your wife used the party as a motivator, and with adults, if they really want to change their results, then this is and I don’t, I don’t dictate how to do it as much as help them figure out how they’re going to do it,
 
Michael Hingson ** 15:52
absolutely, absolutely. So
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 15:56
it’s fun. It’s fun. I have a blast, and some people are a term coaches use is coachable. Some people are more coachable than others. And usually I can kind of assess that early on. And sometimes it’s we go as far as they’re willing to go. They may also not be emotionally ready to go any further
 
Michael Hingson ** 16:22
well. So in 2001 you discovered that you really wanted to teach adults more, and you started your organization. And so inspired, choice came to be. Tell us more about that and what it is and how it’s evolved over the years.
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 16:43
So I’m actually it’s kind of funny. I was I got married in 2000 came back from my honeymoon to find out I’d been laid off. I spent 13 years at Anderson Consulting, which became Accenture, just as I was leaving, and I, I don’t even remember, I think I had seven different jobs in 13 years. They there was a lot of shifting, and one or two I enjoyed the most because they had a lot of teaching. So I enrolled in a couple of programs. Chicagoans will recognize this name, maybe, you know it the Discovery Center was on Lincoln Avenue. We’ve hired that so I took a class that introduced coaching there. And I said, this is interesting. I’m actually still friends with a couple people that were in that classroom, and then I went to a two day conference held by the local Chicago chapter of the International Coach Federation. And then I was hooked, totally hooked. So after being laid off, I spent some time looking for a job, and then I asked my husband if it was okay with him if I decided to pursue this training and then career and coaching. And he said, Sure. So that’s where it started, and in 1997 I’m rewinding just a little, I did a two and a half day women’s personal growth weekend, and started to do the deepest personal growth work I’d done, I would say, in my life, I’d done therapy for years, but didn’t find it as effective as this. Two and a half days really moved the needle. And one of the women who was staffing that weekend, I saw her at a local event for that organization, and I mentioned I was unhappy about a few things. She said, Well, I think I can help you. And I hired her. Lo and behold, she was a coach. I didn’t even know it, and it was immensely helpful to me. That’s how I really got familiar with coaching. And then the two day, two and a half day weekend, and then all of that. So that’s when I realized it was like a career design just for me. No one else was perfect. It was my orientation. Was not telling people what to do, it was helping them empower themselves and realize their best way. So I started my business very slowly. I didn’t know anything about being a business person. I had no clue I was the least bit entrepreneurial, and it evolved slowly, but in the beginning, I kind of like thinking of as a sandwich on the bottom layer. The first piece of bread was about seven years working with women who were in the. Own businesses, helping them realize and find their best marketing method. I just love thinking about marketing, and then that led me to develop a workshop of my own called How to love networking, which most people do not love. It used metaphors, taking what they love to do most in their life, like, let’s say cooking or knitting or travel, and how to network the way they do that activity they love. That led to my being discovered by a senior executive organization helping people network. So they asked if I would lead their Chicago meetings, and I did for about seven and a half years. That shifted me and put me in front of senior executives who were looking for jobs, and I taught networking and help them present themselves well within the meeting. And many of them needed additional help, so I was hired into that kind of coaching. And my whole career, my whole business shifted from helping women on marketing to helping executives with their job search, which is, by the way, still marketing.
 
Michael Hingson ** 21:22
It is, how? How do you teach networking? What? What is that?
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 21:28
I’ll answer that in a minute, but my brain needs to finish this one. Okay, okay, brain, go ahead. My brain will be busy working on it. After about seven years of teaching these executives, helping them in their job search and promoting themselves and networking, I came back to working with women, and that’s what I’ve been doing, working with women leaders on how to be a more empowered, truthful, authentic and vulnerable leader. So that just had to bring you up to the present. So how do you teach networking? It was helping to debunk what networking is, and I like to define networking as simply connecting with like minded people for the greater good. It’s all about connection. What do you have in common? How getting curious? I mean that one of the basic concerns people had was always walking into a room like a networking event, and maybe there’s 10 people, there could be 40 people. How do I start a conversation? How do I describe myself? And people being very attached to the outcome, I have to meet someone who’s going to be helpful to me. I worked with some people who wanted to literally walk in the room, grab the microphone and say, I’m a tech engineer. Can anyone hire me? Like, Oh my gosh, that is not going to get you there, no, but very, you know, end result oriented. So it had a lot to do with understanding human nature, how to have these conversations, how to describe themselves well and talk about the outcomes they deliver, and to be of service help others. First things you’ve heard before, but it was usually getting at what their obstacle was. What was their obstacle to the process,
 
Michael Hingson ** 23:29
makes sense, and and it and it is always a challenge. If let’s take your example. I’m a tech guy who will hire me, shows in so many ways, probably what that person isn’t looking at and needs to look at, and certainly could use a lot of teaching and coaching. The question is, of course, would they be interested in doing it? And that’s, that’s, of course, what you address and what you deal with. Some people are coachable, and some people aren’t, and some people will be once they discover what being coachable is all about.
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 24:15
Yeah, then a case like that, sometimes it’s people that kind of urge, like, you know, I don’t want to make small talk. I always say, Well, then don’t make small talk. Make big talk. Ask important questions. Don’t talk about the weather or how good the weenies are wrapped in the in the dough and the hors d’oeuvres. But they are impatient, perhaps because they’re desperate, because they’re afraid. I always wind up on the emotional undertones of what is going on. How long have you been in job search? Have you been turned down a lot what’s going on? How confident are you? How well can you talk about what you do? Well. How well do you do in relationships having nothing to do with job search? What you know, are you good listener? All those things. So it’s, I would say it’s interesting about job search that at some level, people might not be at their best depending on how comfortable they are with the process, because it is not linear,
 
Michael Hingson ** 25:27
yeah, and even if you’re turned down for a job, do you ask? Why? You know? Are you willing to learn? And again, some people are and some people aren’t. Right, right when I talk, when I talk with people about being as when I talk with people about being a speaker and and even sometimes they say we’re considering you. And then if they come back and they say we went a different direction, I will ask why. I’d love to learn a little bit more. I don’t, I’m not quite that blunt. I’ll say something like, I’d like to learn a little bit more about what the process was and what led you to the choice that you made. If you would please take the time to let me know. And again, it’s, it’s a it’s a process. I haven’t generally heard that. Oh, you’re not a good speaker, or whatever. And I suppose some people might not want to say, but usually it’s we had somebody who went a different wanted us to go a different direction, or, I mean, any number of things, or we changed our mind about the theme for the event, which has happened more than once any number of things. And so you you take every, every opportunity, and you learn what you can.
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 26:50
That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. It eventually. What led me at some point, I think the pretty sure the people were under and their fear and working with that, I think that some point that may have been what helped me decide to move on and instead of and practice what I preach. Really am I coaching this target audience out of passion, and I was starting to lose my passion. And I said, you know, I’ve been feeling a hankering to go back to working with women, and as I did the work on myself, this is not a surprise, but I was doing a lot of work on myself. To stand in my power more to really tune into my feminine energy and to spirituality. And it was all guiding me to say, you’re not following your heart and soul passion. And then that led me right back to where I started, and working with women. There you go on on deeper issues. So it’s been wonderful,
 
Michael Hingson ** 28:09
by the way. What kind of work does your husband do?
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 28:14
Oh, well, it’s really interesting. He might have lost track how many years, but he’s about a 45 year stock trader, and started out on the Chicago Board of Trade floor. Then around the time I met him, he, as they call it, went upstairs, became an upstairs trader, electronic only, and now, for maybe the last eight years, nine years, he’s teaching traders and investors how to read the cycles in the stock market chart analysis and some emotional issues for traders. Traders psychology. And he created a membership for people that want to get involved at a deeper level or a lighter level. And he does training videos. He does. He’s actually got a live show that he does once a month, and it’s all about education and analysis, some really technical but this gorgeous, beautiful charting that he that he invented, of looking at where the rhythms are. I could go on and on about this, but I think that’s probably all your listeners want to hear, because it gets great, really technical. And for those who are a little geeky, if you have ever heard of the Fibonacci formula, even the market follows Fibonacci cycles. Well,
 
Michael Hingson ** 29:52
the reason I asked the question was you said earlier, when you decided to start your business, you asked him, and he said, Yes, and that. Immediately made me wonder, what kind of a guy is he that he was willing to be open, and clearly, he’s an intelligent person. He observes a lot, and so it makes perfect sense that that he would be the kind of person who would support and agree with decisions that you could make and do make, and the fact that the two of you communicated about it is, I think, the most telling thing. It’s great when a couple shares and essentially really decides together.
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 30:36
Well, I can’t wait to tell him what calls over. He’s uh, currently relaxing by the pool after his Friday, his Friday live show. But the interesting thing, or, or, and the three, the two and a half day training I told you that I did in 97 he did the men’s version, which is a little more popular. It’s called a little has more notoriety. It’s called new Warrior, and he did that in like three months before I met him, and that changed his life. So, communication skills, self awareness, taking responsibility, all of that, that was what drew me to him and that, and we’ve been growing those skills ever since, no taking responsibility if you get triggered, and not blaming the other person. Yeah, understanding a lot of emotional intelligence, a ton of emotional intelligence. In fact, we both got certified in a tool published by MHS, and it’s a emotional intelligence assessment.
 
Michael Hingson ** 31:46
Well, you’ve been coaching for a while, needless to say, 23 years. What are the most common issues that women leaders ask for support on?
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 32:01
There’s usually one common thread, and it’s about, how do I have this conversation? I need to tell this employee they’re not doing well, but I don’t want to hurt their feelings. I’m not getting along well. Things are not going smoothly with one of my direct reports. I don’t know how to approach that. Or there I have some clients who are in a male dominated industry and a male dominated firm, and they may be the only woman in the room. How do I dan in my power express myself and communicate where very often, male and female communications can be different. So how to how to tell, have the conversations, how to tell the truth, what they think is the truth, without worrying about hurting people’s feelings or having a lot of fear come up and how how to move through the discomfort. It might be speaking up more than they’re used to. It might be saying no, it might be setting some limits and being honest with some risk. So it’s almost all connected, but those are usually the general themes,
 
Michael Hingson ** 33:29
yeah, and it’s unfortunate that there have to be risks just to being able to speak up where as if it were just men in the room, probably the same issue wouldn’t be there, but we’re still way too patriarchal, I think, in a lot of ways, and that tends to be a problem. I love it when people are willing to speak up and be open. I think it’s it’s so important to do that.
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 33:57
Well, I can tell you that while I was still coaching on job search, most of my clients were men, and they had plenty of fear about speaking up plenty it is really not so gender biased, especially networking or interviewing, or how am I going to answer that question, or all of this strategizing. Well, if they say this, then I’ll say that. Or instead of what I have come to learn to not only do but to enjoy, is to just be be in the moment. Yeah? Like I often joke, I like being put on the spot. Yeah, I mean, you asked you, and I talked about some things we might talk about today, but I’m ready for you to ask me anything, and I think that’s exciting. And if I don’t know the answer, I’ll say so, but, but I’ve learned to love honesty in that kind of Troy. And that’s what I help my clients do, yeah, and I can think of, oh, sorry, let me just finish this one, thinking of this one client, he wanted to get promoted. He liked his company a lot. He was doing well, and he was going to go to this meeting where they’re going to be all appears of his, and then the next level up of management, and he was making himself a little nuts preparing, like I said, if they go on this topic, I’ve got my notes, and if they go to this topic, I’ve got my notes. And I helped him to see how he could he didn’t need he was over, preparing, spending a lot of time that he didn’t need to. And this concept of showing up, show up, be present, answer the questions from what you know, and the words don’t matter as much as the energy. It’s about saying what you feel and what you believe and say that proudly. So he started doing that, and he couldn’t believe the shift. And there’s a there’s a woman. Her name is nalima bat. I’ve heard her speak, and she has a meditation that helps get to the point of saying there’s nothing to defend, there’s nothing to promote, and there’s nothing to fear. God practically just want to sigh at that, yeah, oh, that’s so reassuring. And then you just show up because you’re you’ve got the ability you know you you’re ready. You’re always ready.
 
Michael Hingson ** 36:43
We just don’t always think we are, because we overthink things. You know, the biggest problem with fear is we focus so much on the what ifs and that we create our own fear, rather than, as you just said, really living in the moment and and using the knowledge that you have, trusting your your gut or your brain, and, yeah, speaking up and doing the things that you know, really that you should do. And the reality is, you do know what you should do, but we are so focused so often on what if that we’ve lost a lot of those skills. They’re there to be redeveloped. And I wrote a book that’s going to be well, it’ll be out in August of 2024 it’s called Live like a guide dog, true stories from a blind man and his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity and walking in faith. And the idea is to help people learn how to control fear. It isn’t to be fearless, because fearless is a very powerful thing, but you don’t need to let fear overwhelm you. You need to use it in a positive way. And one of the things that I learned and talk about in the book is that living in the moment is one of the most powerful things that we can do. That isn’t to say you don’t develop strategies and spend some time strategizing, but if you do it to the point where you drive yourself crazy and you don’t really listen to yourself, that’s a problem.
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 38:21
You used a really important word there trust and we have this is a topic that I’m warning you. Michael could go pretty deep, so I’m going to try to stay at the top, because it can. It’s so enmeshed, I have come to appreciate that as humans, we have to, let’s call it two minds. We have our ego, fear driven mind that, from our cave days, is there to protect us. That’s the the ancient reptilian part of our brain that’s there to make sure that we have our fight, flight or freeze response if we see a big wooly mammoth today, our fears are very different, but we’re not worried about a lion or a tiger around every corner, so we have this protective, fear driven way of thinking that you can also refer to as ego. That is the what if negative and I need to be careful. What if I don’t get promoted? What if someone thinks this? What if a lot of women worry? What if I sound too outspoken? We’ve got all that worry side, and that’s one mind. The other is love driven, and it is for many people. It is about faith. It is about beliefs that there is the. Our powers greater than us, and that it isn’t what one side, the ego, human protective side, is very tied to body identification with the eyes, ears, nose and touch, all of that what we hear the other side is spirit identification, and and that there, there’s magic in the world. There’s mystery, yeah, and it is not 100% all up to you. People will feel your energy. There are, there’s, whatever you want to call it for you, divine, the universe, spirit. There are other forces at work, and that that’s where, if we can trust that it doesn’t all rest on our shoulders, not all within our control, either, but we, one side is powerless. This side, to me, is where you have your power. I need to do my best, and I can show up.
 
Michael Hingson ** 41:00
We don’t always have control over what happens, but we always have control over how we deal with what happens, and that’s the part that we have to make, the choice to address. And the example I always give with that is the World Trade Center. We had no control over it, and I no one’s convinced me yet that we could have figured it out, but each and every one of us moves forward from the World Trade Center, and we have the choice to make of how we deal with what happened that day. We can hate love, we can use it as a way to move forward and help others and ourselves and so many different things that we have a choice to do. Well,
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 41:45
I hope so here do, yeah, yeah, big time.
 
Michael Hingson ** 41:50
And I think it’s the important thing that we we need to do. Let me ask you this question. You have a tool that you use to help men and women improve their results. And do you want to talk about that some?
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 42:04
Yeah, and it’s all about what you were just talking about. It’s all about perspective and it all and the power of our thoughts. So very typically, when I work with people, I’m sure you see this, and the people you talk to, people want to change their results. So they say, Well, if I want a better career, I want this, or I want that, I need to change my actions, my behavior. And usually that’s where it stops. Is okay. Want a job, I’m going to go look for a job. I’m going to do this, do that, do these steps. I want to get promoted. I’m going to start showing up like this or that, and then it sometimes doesn’t work, or they’re too afraid, so they do some shortcuts, or they aren’t showing up fully in their strength and their ability and their power. So what I help people realize is before you go take those changed actions to get new results, there’s something that happens before the action, and that is, you look at choices options, you think about your options first, and then you choose one or two, and you do those actions before the choices, even before you look at a list of choices, there’s an emotion or a feeling. If your job search is motivated by fear, then your options that you look at might be somewhat desperation driven, and then your behavior, and then the results you get. If we I’ll stick with job search as the example. What triggered those emotions? Where do those come from? So even before the emotion, there’s some kind of a belief, and before the belief we have thoughts, and I like to kind of put those in the same bucket, thoughts that we hold on to long enough become beliefs we can have fleeting thoughts, like I think I can fly, but then when we we look at what we believe. So there’s often a trigger at the beginning of the whole process. I need a job. I’ve just been laid off, and the thought or belief is this is a tough market. No one’s going to want to hire me. I didn’t get enough to a high enough level, or my resume is not going to be impressive. That creates the emotion of fear. Fear leads to limited options, like, I’m not even ready to talk about my skills. I’ll just go apply online. That’s it. I’ll send out like 50 resumes online. Online is never the best way to find a job, and it’s usually. Maybe 20% of the best strategy. So we look online, and then the result is, that’s our action. The result is, maybe we get called for one or two interviews. So now we’re annoyed This isn’t going well, that thought, that belief now starts a whole nother chain reaction. This isn’t going well. I’m never going to find a job more anger and frustration and fear, and we make new choices, take more action, and the results may not change. So what you can do with this is interrupt the whole flow and choose a different thought, a different belief. And one possibility for this kind of a person would be, I’ve had a reasonably good career. I have a lot of skills, maybe if I ask for some help, I can present myself in a different way, or I’m really focusing too much on the negative, and a new belief might be if I tell my story in a more positive way, and if I can calm myself down, I know I’m hireable. I know I can do well, and that would bring a new emotion of some positivity, some maybe even a little spark of joy, some contentment. I don’t know if we could go all the way to happy and we look at making different choices. Who can I ask? Who do I think describes themselves really well? Who has a lot of confidence? Maybe a good friend of mine can help me, and we look at a bunch of choices. I’ve heard that networking is more important than looking online, but I don’t, I don’t think I can network well. Who do I know that networks well, and then we take different action, like maybe talking to one of those friends, or working with a job search office or a coach, and we get different results, and that then feeds the formula again. Then we’re like, okay, that worked. I’m on the right track. I got more interviews. I’m hireable, and it keeps circulating and circulating.
 
Michael Hingson ** 47:28
Yeah, and the example you just gave, the reality is, all too often we talk ourselves into a bad situation or a not positive situation, because we do the what ifs and we don’t look at options. And I think it’s so important to think about the more positive things. And the reality is, Gandhi put it very well when he said interdependence is an ought to and ought to be as much the ideal of man as a self sufficiency. And the point is, is so true that we’re all part of the same world. We’re all part of the same process, and the more we work together, and the Learn More we learn to work together, the better it will be. Yes,
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 48:17
and interestingly, maybe building on your What if concept, there’s, there’s a, there’s a game I sometimes play with people, if you can picture like the chair you’re sitting in is, is center center point. What if negative moves to your left every time you answer? Well, what if I don’t get a job? Well, what if I go hungry? What if I’m broke? What if, and you keep moving left, left, left, further, or you can come back to center and move to the right, well, what if I get some help, and that leads to a job? And what if this, and what if this going positive, and you just notice where, where are you in the center? And the minute you go, what if, positive two or three steps, but you have a negative thought, it takes you back to the center. So it’s just a way of paying attention. Am I? Am I going up with my What if, or in this case, to to the right, or am I going? What if negative they can go either way,
 
Michael Hingson ** 49:26
well. And the issue is, you take two or three steps to the right or movements to the right, and then a negative thought comes along again. You have the choice and the control of how you deal with that negative thought of that as a negative thought, I’m not going to let that control my life. It might be good point. Glad you brought that up negative mind, but that’s not going to help me progress, and that. That’s the part that I think a lot of people don’t learn how to deal with very well. We’re way too negative oriented in our world. It seems, sometimes seems to me,
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 50:12
Well, it’s interesting, because that’s the human protective ego side bringing up the fear based thought, like, Ooh, wait a minute, you’re feeling a little too cocky so you could get hurt. Let me throw a monkey wrench in here. Well, what if? And then here comes the negative thought. And we really those thoughts are so powerful, they influence not just our emotions and choices and action and results, but they they influence what what we believe, and we actually vibrate that to other people. I’m sure you know our listeners and and you have walked into a room and said something with with other people, and you just feel something in the air someone’s like, did you just walk in after an argument two people had or something doesn’t feel right. We really do vibe off each other. And using continuing to use the job search metaphor, depending on how you come in the room to meet someone that wants to have a conversation with you, you set the tone you really we have that power. It’s takes a lot of practice, though, to catch like you said, Oh, thanks, negative mind, because it is worth thinking. It is trying to protect you, and especially your very young child. All our coping mechanisms, we taught, we were taught them or developed them, and it’s gotten us this far, but it may not be serving you anymore, or
 
Michael Hingson ** 51:54
you you haven’t learned how to put a barrier or a stop to those things, and that’s the the part that’s missing. Can you give us an example? Tell us a story about someone who you’ve helped with, with the whole process and what happened?
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 52:12
Well, this is kind of fun, and this has happened a couple times. To tell you about I’m trying to decide which story to tell you, because I’m also thinking about protecting confidentiality. So maybe this is a little easier one. So I have a client who, right now is actually a month from today, is her 65th birthday, and she’s thinking was came to me thinking about retiring. She She and I worked together, I don’t know, maybe 10 years ago, and she came back, and she was in a lot of either or thinking, so I’d like to make a decision, and may 12, be retired, but I still really love what I do. She’s a musician, and I know she would enjoy my telling her story, and I still get a lot of pleasure out of it, but I don’t want to work so many hours. She’s used to kind of just saying yes to every gig that comes along, sure I’ll play for you. Sure, sure. So part of our work was about what is your desired outcome? What do you really want? Do you want to stop working and cook and visit with people and go on trips? No, I really still like working, but I don’t really trust myself to not work all the time. So we wound up shifting using a similar thought formula. Her current belief was it’s either work or play. That was it. So that led to feeling overwhelmed and afraid, and that led to her making choices to postpone it, which is really a choice. She didn’t take action. And the result is, well, I’m getting even closer to that 65th birthday, and I have no decision. And we shifted to the concept of what about work and play, that there were way to set ways to set limits. We came up with some criteria, all based on joy. Which gigs bring you the most joy? Oh, well, that’s easy. I get to play this instrument, not that one within 25 miles of my home, for people that I really like, Okay, now we have, like, a thought filter, a choice filter for choice filter, right, right. It has to meet this criteria, this one and this one. Oh, but then I’ll hurt the feelings of people I say no to we worked on that. Well. Now. I just talked to her yesterday, she said no to like, two or three gigs. Said yes to six. She’s working fewer hours, and now she’s exploring, what do I want to do with my time off? She’s never taken much time off, and now it’s just plugging in some time for my husband, some time for learning new recipes, some time for practicing my instrument, and now she trusts herself to only say yes to the gigs that bring joy. And
 
Michael Hingson ** 55:32
why did she say no? Why did she say no to some
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 55:38
they they were on holidays, which she’s used to sacrificing holidays. And she said, Nope, I want Easter with my husband and my family. I’m saying no,
 
Michael Hingson ** 55:50
that’s my point. Yeah, and yeah. And it was limits. It
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 55:54
was setting limits. Maybe she’d worked with them before and they didn’t pay on time, or it was out of her driving limit, or something about it, there’s no one else in the room with her making the decision. Something about it didn’t feel right, like it’s just trusting instinct, but there were some clear cut yeses and clear cut nos instead of I need to please everyone, so I have to say, yes, yeah,
 
Michael Hingson ** 56:26
which is so cool.
 
56:28
Yes, it’s so fun. Well, what’s
 
Michael Hingson ** 56:30
the best way that people can explore working with you?
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 56:33
Well, I think that when we share this video and the audit the recording, that folks will have my email but let me give it to you now. Yes, please. My email address is Gail, G, A, I, L, at, inspired choice.com, that’s I n, s, p, i, R, E, D, C, H, O, i, c, e.com, you can also call me good old telephone, 773-477-4012, still have my Chicago area code. There you go. And my website, if you want to learn more, is www, dot inspired, choice.com,
 
Michael Hingson ** 57:20
and through the website, and I would assume that through the website, they also can contact you. There’s contact information on the site and so on.
 
57:28
Cool.
 
Michael Hingson ** 57:31
Well, this, I think, has been a lot of fun to do, and I think it’s so important that people learn that they can discover better how to make choices, and that you’re out there to help. And I still love chief obstacle. Buster, I think that’s such a great title.
 
Gail Sussman-Miller ** 57:52
And Michael, I just want to add that I’m happy to always set up a zoom and meet with people and explore the possibilities and see it has to be a good fit on both sides and like, am I even someone who is coachable, or is this something that would even work for me? So that’s always the first step.
 
Michael Hingson ** 58:16
Exploration is always a good thing. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank you all for listening and watching us today. I hope that this has been informative and useful and helpful, and that you will take advantage of the services and skills that Gail has to offer and that you’ll reach out to her. I want to thank you for listening, and as always, really appreciate all that you’re doing with unstoppable mindset and attending our different episodes. I’d love to hear from you. You can reach me by email at Michael H i, at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, e.com, or go to our podcast page, www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, Michael hingson is m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, o, n.com/podcast, wherever you’re listening, please give us a five star rating. Really would love to get that. It really is one of the wonderful things. When people give us a rating, we hope it’ll be five star. But whatever you rate us, please review and we’d love to hear your thoughts and your comments. If you know of anyone else who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, please encourage them to reach out, or you reach out and introduce us. Love it. Gail, you as well. If you know anyone else who ought to be a guest, please let us know. Thank you today. Michael, well, I want to thank you again, and we really appreciate you being here. Thanks very much for all of your time. Thanks.
 
**Michael Hingson ** 59:54
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.