Fear of judgment can quietly shape how you show up, even when you are capable, prepared, and driven. In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I talk with Carlos Garcia, an attorney, Army Reserve JAG officer, certified Army Master Resilience Trainer, and high performance coach who helps people move past fear and into purposeful action. Carlos shares his path from growing up in Simi Valley to serving as a trial defense counsel in high pressure legal settings, and how his own fear of rejection once led him to stay quiet, second guess himself, and avoid opportunities. That struggle pushed him to study resilience, neuroscience, psychology, and philosophy, and to test those lessons through intense physical and mental challenges that reshaped how he shows up under pressure.

Together, we explore why fear of other people’s opinions feels so powerful, how the brain exaggerates threats, and why growth requires planned exposure to discomfort. We talk about preparation versus worry, training your mind before the crisis hits, and why small wins matter more than people realize. I also share lessons from September 11 and from my book Live Like a Guide Dog, connecting mindset, preparation, and courage when it matters most. Carlos’s guiding idea runs through the entire conversation. Get calm so you can think clearly. Get bold so you can act with intention. Get after it so progress actually happens. If fear of judgment, public speaking, or stepping outside your comfort zone has been holding you back, this episode offers practical insight and encouragement to move forward with confidence.

Highlights:

00:58 – Learn how early success can still create fear of judgment and quiet self doubt.

06:14 – Discover why exposing yourself to discomfort breaks fear predictions that rarely come true.

08:29 – Understand how preparation builds calm before pressure ever hits.

16:28 – Learn how to use stress as energy instead of letting it trigger avoidance.

25:23 – Discover why reflection turns mistakes into growth instead of shame.

52:04 – Learn why getting calm must come before bold action and real progress.

About the Guest:

Carlos is an attorney, certified Army Master Resilience Trainer, Army reserve JAG officer, and high-performance coach for smart, driven people. He’s spent over a decade navigating high-stakes environments, from adversarial legal settings fighting for soldiers as a trial defense counsel to the frontlines of resilience training with soldiers and leaders. It all began in 2011 in Washington, DC, where high-stress, high-judgment, and constant pressure came with the territory.

But behind the business attire and confident façade was a harsh reality: a fear of rejection that kept him second-guessing, staying quiet, people-pleasing, and missing out on opportunities he knew he wanted. For years, he avoided rocking the boat, held back in meetings, and lived for external validation. The result? He was invisible in rooms where he should’ve been leading, stuck on a path that didn’t feel like his, and missing out on the roles, relationships, and rewards he worked so hard for.

Then, he decided to rewrite the script. He dove into resilience training, went deep into neuroscience, psychology, ancient philosophy, and anything that could help him (and others like me) reject the fear of, well, rejection. That journey led him to the U.S. Army Resilience program, where he got certified to teach soldiers and leaders how to face judgment, stress, and adversity head-on.

It led him on a path of continuous testing and personal experimentation—at work, in ultra running, and in combat sports including Brazilian jiu jitsu and judo. And eventually, he created True Progress Lab to bring those same principles to leaders who are ready to step up.

His motto:

Get calm—clarity starts there.

Get bold—stability fuels courage.

Get after it—progress demands action.

Ways to connect with Carlos**:**

Website: http://trueprogresslab.com

Newsletter: http://trueprogresslab.com/newsletter

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamjcarlosg/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/trueprogresslab/

X: https://x.com/TrueProgressLab

hello@trueprogresslab.com

About the Host:

Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.

Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.

https://michaelhingson.com

https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/

https://twitter.com/mhingson

https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/

accessiBe Links

https://accessibe.com/

https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe

https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/

https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/

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Transcription Notes:

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Michael Hingson  00:00

Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.

Michael Hingson  01:17

Well, hello everyone, wherever you happen to be, I want to tell you that I am your host, Michael Hinkson, and here we are with unstoppable mindset, and we are talking today with Carlos Garcia, who is a an attorney. He’s a resilience trainer, he’s a lot of things. He worked for jag for a while. Never did see him on the TV show, though, but that’s probably good. But anyway, we’re going to talk about his life, his world, what he’s doing, why he does what he does, and all those sorts of things. So I don’t want to give you a lot of information, because I want him to provide it all. So we’ll just start this way. Carlos, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We’re really glad you’re here.

Carlos Garcia  02:06

Thank you for having me. Michael,

Michael Hingson  02:09

well, I love to always start this way. Why don’t you tell us about the early Carlos growing up and some of those things. Ah.

Carlos Garcia  02:18

So I grew up in a small valley called Simi Valley, California. It was once dubbed the safest city in the country back in 2001 I believe it was from the new New York Times article, or an LA Times article. And I grew up there. My childhood home was there. And my dad humble beginnings, truck driver, my mom was a stay at home mom, and was a really, one of those kids that did really well in school. Growing up, I got good grades. I have that analytical mindset, always trying to be organized and structured. And, you know, I went to school at different schools, and I realized that after a while I started not being able to I came to an impasse, essentially, where I had this feeling of being an imposter that haunted me throughout school, through college, through Law School, even as an early attorney and I realized that this feeling of not being good enough, it was really an amplification of something deeper, which I came to learn was something called fear of judgment, or fear of people’s opinions. Sometimes there’s an acronym for it, called fopo fewer people’s opinions, because there’s this quote that I like to talk about from this 20th century psychologist. His name is Alfred Adler. I don’t know if you’ve heard of him, but he has an awesome quote that was very eye opening for me. And he once said that all problems are interpersonal problems. In other words, if there weren’t people around you, you wouldn’t have this feeling of being inadequate to begin with, right? In other words, it’s this fear of being judged. It’s this fear of negative evaluation, being in the spotlight, all eyeballs on you that creates this fear. And so this was my problem, right? And through time and personal experimentation and research, I needed to figure out a way in terms of how to break from this, because it was really holding me back. In many ways. It created inside of me this avoidance, almost a habit of avoidance, this and it just turned into my personality. I would avoid opportunities wherever I’d be in the spotlight, and so through that, I needed to sort of rebuild myself. Eventually I created true profit. Progress lab to share the insights that I learned and the experiences that I learned, because it’s, it’s it’s an awful feeling to know that you’re ambitious and you know you’re qualified for things, but you just don’t have, you know, there’s this impasse, this this fear that that stops you from going after it, right, getting after it, going after those opportunities. So that’s sort of a little bit of little bit of my background. Well, what I’m curious about,

Michael Hingson  05:33

I’m always fascinated to talk about fear in so many ways. But why is it that so many people have this fear of other people’s opinions. Why is it that we have, and I’m going to deliberately put it this way, but why have we learned that? Because it seems to me, it’s probably more of a learned behavior than anything else, because we can also unlearn it. But why? Why is it that we tend to, all too often face that and we’re afraid of whatever people think.

Carlos Garcia  06:05

Yeah, I think it has a lot to do with our past. It’s a learned experience where we something happened to us in the past, and then that fear starts to generalize itself, and then it shows up in different ways in our lives. And so what happens is that we generalize that fear, and then, because the mind has a way to perceive threats, and often it perceives it perceives threats in an exaggerated manner. And so what that does is it keeps us in that safe zone, right? So what I have found in my experience is that I needed to train my mind, specifically my amygdala, right, that that fight or flight response, I needed to train that and teach it that there is nothing to fear from the get Go from the beginning, and that the worst case scenario thought that we’re having, that those those those overthinking thoughts that we’re going through, thinking that that worst case scenario is going to happen, I needed to violate that prediction, right? There’s something in exposure therapy called violating your fear prediction, which means you have to go into the thing that’s causing you anxiety, and then see if that prediction that you’re having before stepping into that event, see if it actually happens. And most of the time it doesn’t happen. So therefore you’re training your mind and teaching it that there’s nothing to fear, and if it does happen, you’re still going to survive, you’re still going to be breathing, you’re going to be okay, right? And that’s something that, that I do at true progress lab is, is using this form of exposure therapy, which teaches people like you have to desensitize yourself to these stressors.

Michael Hingson  07:56

Yeah, I, you know, I’ve talked a lot about fear, especially in the last few years, but certainly since September 11, when when I escaped from Tower One. And as I tell people, it took a long time for me to realize that the reason that I was able to function after the plane hit the building was that a mindset kicked in because I knew what to do to to escape the buildings, and that a mindset kicked in that caused me to be able to function and not fear everything that comes along, and especially since the pandemic hit, I’ve been studying a lot more about this and wrote a book entitled live like a guide dog that talks about fear from the standpoint of what I’ve learned from working with eight guide dogs and my wife’s service dog. And one of the things that comes up in discussions in that book, that we all often talk about here is that, in fact, most as you point out, everything that we fear isn’t going to come to pass anyway. And the the other aspect of that is that we worry about everything under the sun. We are always doing what if about every single thing. And the reality is more than 90% of the things that we what if we don’t really have any control over, but we don’t separate ourselves from them. And so the result is that we just continue to worry about them. And I know one of the things that I learned on September 11 is, don’t worry about what you can’t control. Focus on what you can. We had no control over the World Trade Center happening, events happening, but we absolutely have control over how we deal with it.

Carlos Garcia  09:38

Yeah, yeah. And the point about what you mentioned that when the towers hit, you knew what to do like this. This mindset kicked in, right? And that made me think about being proactive. In terms of we have this habit of waiting for things to happen to us instead of being proactive. Taking proactive responsibility. So what that means in practice is what I learned about my life is that I needed to stop letting things happen to me and start taking a more proactive measure in terms of training for the things that are bothering me, or training for things that were causing anxiety inside of me, so that when I needed to do the real thing, you just act right, just like you said, your mindset just kicked in. You knew what to do, and that is probably because you’ve trained that in a proactive manner, and so that when the thing actually happens, you know what to do. And that’s that’s what I needed to so you need to, you need to train outside so that when the real thing happens, you know what to do. You’re not waiting for things to happen. You’re taking a proactive measure, you know.

Michael Hingson  10:50

Yeah, I understand. Here’s a question, are you familiar with the term and the industry business continuity a little bit. All right, so, yeah, business continuity, or people who practice it, are the people they call themselves, the what if people, and their job is to really focus on in in their businesses that they’re working in, or they’re contracted to, either way, but in their businesses, their job is to look for different kinds of things that could be emergencies, and put in place the systems that will be able to keep the business going if there is an emergency or if those things occur. So they’re they’re doing a lot of what ifing, if you will, to say, well, what if this happens? What do we do in the business? What if that happens? And in fact, the company that I do work with, accessibe, has been doing a fair amount of business continuity. I’ve not been directly involved with it, but they’ve been doing it over in Israel because of all the things that are going on over there. And what if? What if their attacks? What if servers go down? How does the company keep going in the US and so on? What’s really interesting to me is these people, and I’d be curious to get your take on it, but these people do that, but they’re clearly not fearful. They’re they’re anticipating and putting things in place, but I’ve not ever heard that they’re afraid. Why is that? Why is that?

Carlos Garcia  12:30

Yeah, that makes me think about this. This quote from Seneca, who’s a stoic philosopher, and he said, The man lost his children, you too can lose yours. The man who has anticipated the coming of troubles takes away their power when they arrive. So it’s about visualizing worst case scenarios and even taking a next step which is more advanced is living out the worst case scenario. It kind of goes in line with desensitizing yourself to the stressor, right by envisioning it. Because, as you may know, when you visualize things, it’s almost like doing an actual rep, right, right? So when you visualize it, when you think about it, you take away it’s, it’s complete power over you, because you’ve thought about the situation and then you’ve actually made me taken the next step of actually formulating an action plan about it, so you’re less anxious about, Okay, what if this happens? Then I actually, I could actually maybe have an action plan in terms of what I need to do next, you know? So it’s a way to create distance, I think, between the fear and what may may or may not happen, right?

Michael Hingson  13:41

Well, yeah. And the reality is that with most people, we What if everything to death, but we’re doing it out of fear as opposed to out of planning. And as you point out, when you’re doing it as part of creating a plan or as part of truly anticipating potential, then you’ve taken away the stressor part, right?

Carlos Garcia  14:05

Yeah, there is a big difference between just saying what if and having those scatter, scatter thoughts and replaying the what ifs in your mind, versus okay, this is a negative or potentially worst case scenario thought I’m having. So is it true? What can I do to plan? You know, we have there’s the technique we call we we call rational optimism, which is from this psychologist. He’s known as the father of psychology. His name is Martin Seligman. You may have heard of him, what he calls a learned optimism, and essentially is putting your thoughts that you’re having in your mind, putting them against the wall and acting like an objective fact finding detective and trying to figure out, okay, are these thoughts that I’m having? Are they actually true? Like, what’s the evidence for these thoughts? What’s the evidence against these thoughts? Right? And it’s kind of to your point about the. You know, worst case scenario. Okay, is this worst case scenario? Could it actually happen? Or am I just really exaggerating, you know, and being intentional about that, I think, is important. It’s difficult, because when you’re in the heat of passion, your mind is going nuts, and you need to have those techniques in your back pocket to kind of come down to reality and say, Okay, what am I? Am I exaggerating? Here? Am I thinking things that are just not true, right?

Michael Hingson  15:35

Well, clearly, I think no one ever thought or not enough to put it into put a plan into action. But no one ever thought that somebody would fly a large aircraft totally loaded with jet fuel into a building of the World Trade Center or into the Pentagon until somebody did. And so was that a failure on someone’s part, I’m, I’m not sure that it is or was, but also, having seen it happen, it also then created, I think, more of a mindset to work harder, to try to anticipate potentialities.

Carlos Garcia  16:20

Yeah, yeah, I think that’s very true. Because, I mean, I can’t imagine being this in that situation that you were in, but yeah, more of a reason to really think of think outside the box in terms of what could potentially happen, right? And again, I think it goes back to just being proactive and and being intentional about those things.

Michael Hingson  16:45

We spend so much time teaching people to fear so many things and fear them in a in a negative way. I don’t have any problem with people having a a fear, a respectful fear of one thing or another. But the issue is, if you fear it and let that fear overwhelm you, or like, I like to say, blind you, that’s a different situation. I think there’s, there’s no problem with the point of being afraid or having a fear. I don’t want to say being afraid, but having a fear of something, but you use that fear to help you focus and to help you be more aware of what goes on around you. That’s a whole different animal than just being afraid and then letting that fear overwhelm you.

Carlos Garcia  17:38

Yeah, for sure. I think some nerves are good, some, some fear is good, because you need it to perform too. It’s, it’s, it’s positive energy. If you, if you see it as positive energy, then you can use it to your advantage. But if you, if you see fear in a way that makes you defensive and you see it as a threat, then it’s not positive energy. Now you’re in that, that fight or flight mode, and you’re you’re thinking, Okay, I need to protect my ego, or I need to protect myself against this perceived threat. And there’s a big difference in terms of how you see that, how you see fear, if you see fear as a good thing, like, you know, this mindset stress is enhancing mindset. If you see stress as as a good thing, in terms of using it to your advantage to perform better, then you’re going to perform better. If you see it as a negative thing, then you’re going to make it you’re going to try to make it go away. But I think you shouldn’t try to make stress or anxiety go away, because I think you should get stronger despite the stress, because you are, you’re going to get stronger, right? They’re always going to be problems and challenges, and as you grow, you’re going to build businesses, or you’re going to have more difficult conversations. You’re going to be exposed to more things you can’t hide under a rock, right? You’re going to be the more exposed you are to things, the more potential stress there’s going to be. So making stress go away is not a smart strategy for me. I think I need to become comfortable in the uncomfortable. You know, we either get stronger, we or we don’t get stronger, right?

Michael Hingson  19:22

Well, and I certainly don’t expect everyone to become Mr. Spock and have no emotions. We’re not going to be Vulcans, but I think that we all can learn to be a whole lot more analytical. We all can learn to exercise a lot more control over our lives. And again, that’s an area where we do have control. We may not be able to control what happens to us, some unexpected thing might occur, like, you know, anything from losing a job to a fire that comes in your neighborhood or whatever, but we do have control, again over how we deal with it, and. I think that’s the big issue. How do we get people in general to become more analytical, to become more aware that they have to really study themselves and teach themselves how to deal with fear? Because I don’t, I don’t think, well, we don’t teach that generally, and kids don’t grow up learning that, and one of my favorite examples of fear and all that is I listen to the weather forecast every day. And my gosh, those people, those weather people, are never satisfied. It’s too hot, it’s too cold. Well, it’s a good day today, but there are clouds, there are always butts, there are always things that cause people to react and that that doesn’t contribute to us learning anything positive or productive, to overcome fear.

Carlos Garcia  20:50

Yeah, yeah, there’s always on the news. You, you turn on the news, and it’s always this FOMO fear of missing out, or this, this mind, just try, because it’s such a good marketing technique to keep you in this. You know, this is, this is what’s going to happen if you, if you don’t do this, this is what’s going to happen if you do that right? And I think it takes studying a little bit of marketing to see what’s what’s trying to deceive you and what’s not trying to deceive you. I think I’ve learned that over the years. And running my business is seeing when people are trying to scare you and when they’re not trying to scare you. But on a on another point that you said about how can we become more analytical with fear? I think it starts with being in simmering, in the in the fear, in the anxiety and again, teaching your mind that it’s okay, like it’s gonna be okay, right? Because if you can’t get to a certain, you know, if you’re, if you’re, say you’re different levels of discomfort, say, one being the lowest stress discomfort level, and 10 being, you know, you’re panicking basically, right? If you’re going into a situation and you’re like, at a level seven or six, anything above six, you’re not going to really be able to use that, that that thinking part of your brain, because you’re going to be in that fight or flight mode. So you first need to relax yourself. You’re you need to, like, quiet your amygdala, that part of the brain that is making you all tense and defensive. And then once you do that, then you you allow room to Okay. Now I can maybe start thinking about thinking on my feet. Now I can maybe start being creative using my intuition, smiling, right, showing up as my best self. But you can’t do any of that if you’re not, if you’re if you’re all stressed out, right, if your discomfort level is so high. So I would say the first thing is, is learning how to become comfortable in the uncomfortable. And then you can start to whip out some nice, interesting, intelligent ideas with your mind, right?

Michael Hingson  23:04

How do you teach people to do that?

Carlos Garcia  23:06

Yeah, that’s a great question. So we work backwards. So first we identify what is the thing that’s causing, causing the anxiety? Because we found that it’s always this, the specific situation, but not so much the situation. It’s the fact that you’re in the spotlight that there are eyeballs on you, right? So when there are eyeballs on you, it can be in different situations. Maybe it could be at networking events. Maybe it could be during delivery presentations or deliveries. It could be doing like an investor pitch before you know, a Shark Tank, for example, or being in a meeting with senior leadership and having to speak up and and there being potential conflict. So these could be situate potential situations. Then you got to work backwards and and see, okay, how can I train for these situations outside of the workplace where the stakes are not so high, and train for that with realistic stress levels, so that I feel stress and I know what it’s like to be in these situations, and then so that when I become comfortable, then I can take that new experience and wisdom into the workplace. I know what it’s like to be in those situations. I know how to manage my thoughts and emotions. I know what to tell myself. I know how to communicate. You take all that knowledge into the workplace so that you can shine in the workplace, right? It’s just like Olympians or the Special Forces community. You know, Navy SEALs, Special Forces in the army, that’s how they train. Their training is much more difficult than the actual mission, and that’s intentional. That’s on purpose, so that when it’s time to shine, they can shine Same, same approach we take. You know, you train hard outside of the workplace, so that you bring that new. Build Confidence into the workplace. You don’t want to do that necessarily in the workplace, right? Because the stakes are higher. You need to perform. You know your bosses may not be as empathetic or understanding. You know there may not be that psychological safety that that people are looking for. You know you can’t wait for psychological safety to show up for you to then shine. You have to. You have to learn to shine it. You know, in the absence of of that,

Michael Hingson  25:32

one of the things that I’ve advocated and advocate and live like a guide dog is it would be very helpful to take time at the end of the day. We need to learn to be more introspective anyway, but to take the time when you’re starting to fall asleep, when you get in bed, to think about what happened today, what worked, what didn’t work. I never use the term failure because I don’t think that that negative connotation really helps. But you can talk about what worked, what didn’t work. Why didn’t something work like you expected it to, and then carry that to what were you afraid of? What what caused you fear? And what can you do to overcome that, or even with what worked really well today, and how might I even make it better next time. But if you really ask yourself those questions, I also think that most all of us truly have the answers within us, if we would but learn to listen for them.

Carlos Garcia  26:32

Yeah, that’s that’s such a that’s such a great point, Michael, we need to create that space and that time after situations or events or experiences where we can actually reflect and ask those important questions, because it’s about, okay, what am I asking myself the right questions so that I can then, then it starts triggering some thoughts, and it starts triggering some reflection in terms of, okay, am I actually learning something out of this experience? You know? And like you said, I mean, it’s not, it’s not failure. You know, in the military, we have something called AAR after action review, right? Every training mission or actual mission, we ask very similar questions to the questions you just asked, you know, what went well, what didn’t go so well? What could we do better next time? Simple questions, but very effective, right? Yeah, you got to keep things simple. Keep it simple silly, right? Yeah. And you know, it’s not, it’s not failure, it’s learning. There’s no There’s no progress. Until you know I had, I had to learn how to to fail. And learning how to fail is understanding that, like you said, you know, it’s there is no failure, right? The failure is about learning, not not keeping in a persona, or keeping an image or or wanting certain individuals to think of you in a certain Limelight or way, right? It’s about becoming comfortable with a failure, and you know you’ll have less hesitation with it. You’ll start taking more imperfect action, because you understand that, you know failure is is learning, not about proving things to people you know, and I think, you know, I’ve had a hard time with that, is trying to and it’s so exhausting, too, right? When you’re trying to uphold an image of yourself, it’s exhausting because you shouldn’t focus on upholding an image of of a certain image of yourself. You should focus on learning. You should focus on on making mistakes and learning from them, like you said, and then asking those, those important questions, right? So that you can reflect on that.

Michael Hingson  28:57

One of the things that I used to say all the time, and I’ve talked about it here on the podcast before, but is I used to say I’m my own worst critic when I would record my speeches and I want to listen to them to hear what I did and didn’t do and so on. And I always made the comment as justification for it, I’m my own worst critic. And only in the last couple years, only in the last year actually, have I learned that’s not the right thing to say, because it’s such a negative thing. But rather, I’m my own best teacher, because, in reality, I’m the only person who can truly teach me anything and get me to learn. Other people can provide information, but only I can truly assimilate it. And the reality is, I’m my own best teacher. You’re your own best teacher. And when we work to truly learn from our experiences, we’ll move forward.

Carlos Garcia  29:50

Yeah, yeah, we tend to be really hard on ourselves, right? And, you know, like you, I found that I. Needed to learn how to be kinder to myself and not picking everything apart and having this perfectionist mindset. Right? Often we say, Oh, we’re, you know, we take pride in being a perfectionist, but often, I found that perfectionism is just a disguise for going back to fear of being judged, right? And so what happens is that we over prepare, we overthink, we fear making mistakes, and we call ourselves a perfectionist, but perfectionism is really a disguise for that. So think being kinder, yeah, being Condor, I think is

Michael Hingson  30:43

and there are times to beat up on yourself if you don’t, if you don’t learn from the mistake, if you go and do the same thing over and over again, then you somewhere along the line, have to slap yourself upside the head and go. Wait a minute. Why am I doing this? Because I know it’s not right. Why am I continuing to do it? I’m not catching on to something here.

Carlos Garcia  31:05

Yeah, no, that’s true for sure. Yeah, you have to slap yourself if you make the same mistakes.

Michael Hingson  31:11

Yeah, if you just don’t change. And again, it’s all about becoming wise enough to make changes when there’s a need to do it, to not only eliminate the fear, but to be able to progress and do something in a much more positive way. And I think every time we figure that out and we do it, we should celebrate and absolutely should celebrate it. We should be joyful that we figured this out. We don’t make that mistake again, we won’t make that mistake again, or rather than a mistake, we just won’t operate that way. We’re going to change the way we do it.

Carlos Garcia  31:48

Yeah, I think that’s such an important point of celebrating your tiny wins and rewarding yourself, even not, you know, taking yourself out to a restaurant, but just making a note of it almost I actually have a log for things that I’ve overcome, you know, I call it my proof list, and it’s just a simple log with dates of events, of things that I overcame or I succeeded in. And they could be small things, you know, like doing a presentation in front of this group of people, or, you know, winning this competition, or even participating in a competition. And, you know, reviewing that and reminding my mind that, okay, I’ve done these things. You know, I should have reasons to celebrate, because the mind is so fragile we forget things. You know, we’re so busy with work, we’re busy doing other things that if you don’t schedule a time to remind yourself of the things that you overcame and the things that you your accomplishment, they’re just going to fizzle away. You know? They’re going to fizzle out again. Forget about them. So I think that’s that’s something I’ve been doing for the past several years

Michael Hingson  33:01

well, you you went through a period where you had a lot of these fears and so on. And what really caused you to change and grow and take a different tack to what you you were doing, because I know you were a Jag and a lawyer for for 10 years and so on, but yet some of these fears were existing in your mind, what did you do?

Carlos Garcia  33:24

Yeah, it was an accumulation, I think, of things, and a time that I took to reflect on my life and realize that I was just avoiding there were great opportunities that I was being given, and I was avoiding those opportunities or making illogical excuses for why I shouldn’t stretch myself or take advantage of them. Work related, non work related. And, you know, I just said enough was enough. I can’t be doing this, you know. And I started taking a stand. I think it starts. I think it starts with reflection, you know, realizing there’s a problem. And then the second thing for me was getting a little bit angry, a little bit angry, a little bit aggressive, because you need, I think anger could is a very powerful emotion if you can channel it in the right way. And for me, it was anger at myself in terms of why I was missing out on these, on these things. And then I realized, okay, things needed to change. And I started, like many other people start they start reading, they start researching, they start experimenting with things. I started doing a lot of physical training. I learned that moving the body and stressing the body is a powerful way to learn how to manage your thoughts and your negative emotions, because if you think about it, what are the things that ultimately derail us? They’re our emotions. Right that get the best of us, fear, anxiety, stress, frustration, boredom, anger, these things, they make us avoid things, avoid opportunities, or they make us quit early. And I learned that stressing my body through rigorous physical exercise, whether it’s ultra endurance running or combat sports, it’s these things. There are these activities, are are vehicles or or arenas where you can intentionally train your mind to learn how to IE, learn how to manage those negative thoughts and emotions so that they don’t control your decision making, so they don’t control your actions, so that you’re taking the right actions despite not feeling a certain way Right, yeah, because I had a bad habit of of letting my emotions dictate my actions, you know, I don’t feel like doing this today, or I’m too scared to do that, and therefore not doing it right, versus okay, I feel this way, but in spite of feeling this way, I’m still going to do it. And you know, I learned that through learning techniques on how to manage my thoughts and emotions right. And then the other important piece was the mental conditioning, like the example I just gave you with recreating your environment, the things that cause you anxiety, and then replicating that outside the workplace, and then bringing that new experience and Confidence into the workplace, right? Things like things like that.

Michael Hingson  36:43

You know, I know it’s me, but I am so amazed that one of the top fears that people have is a fear of public speaking, and I still don’t understand really why. Of course, I’m coming from a place of knowledge, and I know, for example, that audiences really want speakers to succeed unless you know, unless they truly view you as the enemy, which they do with politicians and things like that, but mostly especially in the speaking arena, I think audiences want people to succeed. They want to hear what you have to say, but so many people are afraid to go out and speak.

Carlos Garcia  37:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in my experience, it’s a fear of being humiliated, a fear of failing in public, right? We have these worst case scenario thoughts that we’re going to mess up, and that controls our thinking, Yeah, and so what I found is that you need to live out your worst case scenario and realize that it’s gonna be okay, right? It’s gonna be okay, and then practicing so we have something called intentional embarrassment or intentional humiliation, where you put yourself in potentially embarrassing situations where you feel that emotion because you need to become desensitized to it. You need to expose yourself to it, because it’s going to happen. You don’t want it to happen when you’re speaking in front of a group of people, right? You want to know what it feels like, so that when you’re in front of a group of people, you’re not going to you’re not going to break you’re going to be like, Okay, I felt this before. Not a big deal. I know how to reroute myself and get back on track, right? And you know it also comes from this notion of taking yourself too seriously, right? Are you there to put up a image, to uphold an image of yourself? Are you there to provide value to people right before you step on stage, like, what’s your purpose? Right? If you’re thinking about you, you you and not about okay, how can I contribute? How can I help people? How can I bring value that’s going to mess you up too? Right? Sure, so being so externally focused instead of, or not externally focused, but being so internally focus, instead of focusing on, you know, how you can contribute, right?

Michael Hingson  39:05

And the other part of it is that you may even on stage mess up, and again, if it happens, what do you do about it? I’ve been pretty fortunate to be able to speak and not really had a lot of problems with that, but I know that, having worked in radio for a while and made a couple of mistakes on the air, the best thing to do is to laugh at yourself and learn to move forward. And I’ve observed a number of people. I think probably one of the best examples is Johnny Carson, who, for many years on The Tonight Show, did all sorts of things, including, I know, sometimes messed up and made fun of himself, and knew how to move on and turn what was potentially an embarrassing situation into a positive thing, and bring the audience with you. And I think those are all pretty. Preparations that we all need to learn to make.

Carlos Garcia  40:02

Yeah, that’s, that’s an awesome point laughing at yourself and owning your mistakes. You’re owning your flaws. It’s so powerful because you’re not letting the audience do it. You’re doing it yourself, right? You’re owning, you’re allowing yourself to make mistakes and laugh at yourself. And that has a way of taking, you know, owning it, right? It has, it has a way of creating power in you and taking the power away from other people who may make fun of you. They can’t make fun of you because you’ve already made fun of yourself, right? And, or you join them, or you join them, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I think that’s a great, a great strategy, laugh at yourself, yeah,

Michael Hingson  40:43

and that gets back to what you were saying earlier. Don’t take yourself too seriously. And all too often we do that. But the reality is, and as I tell people who come on this podcast, the only rule is you got to have fun. And I want people to have fun. I want people to have interesting content to talk about. We certainly do here. But at the same time, I want people to enjoy themselves and to relax and to have fun, because it’s so much more important to do that.

Carlos Garcia  41:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m a recovering stiff take myself too seriously kind of guy, you know, I’m still, still recovering from that, and in my profession too, it’s, it can get very stiff, you know, attorneys can get very stiff. And, you know, that’s one of the causes of burnout, because you’re trying to uphold this image, and so you’re overworking yourself to the ground, or you’re taking more work than you should be taking. And what happens is you burn out, right? Yeah, from all this, from this core concept of wanting people to like you, yeah, wanting to be disliked, you know, not wanting to be judged by people, people pleasing, right? It all comes from that, right?

Michael Hingson  42:00

Well, you were a JAG officer and so on. How long did you do that? Yeah.

Carlos Garcia  42:04

So I commissioned in 2016 of August. August. 2016 into the army JAG corps reserve. So we have an active component and a reserve component. So I commissioned as an officer into the Reserve component. But I’ve been on active duty. I’ve gone on active duty tours. I’ve mobilized in different different places in the US and overseas as well. I’ve been doing this since 2016 and most recently. So you have different positions in the JAG corps, and I’m a I work in TDs, which is stands for trial defense service, so it’s defending soldiers who’ve been charged with adverse actions, charged with crimes, and I represent them essentially on the military side. So it’s it’s a lot of fun. It’s very fulfilling. I love it. I’ve been doing TDs, and you can do different areas of law in in the JAG corps. But I love TDs. I love the, you know, representing the underdog, because, because it is the underdog, it’s the government, the prosecutor on the military side. You have the paralegals on the military side. You have all the personnel on the military side, and the military right against the TDS lawyer, jag lawyer, and and the client and the resources that we have. And I like this idea of representing the underdog. It’s it’s very fulfilling for me.

Michael Hingson  43:35

So I assume you win some cases.

Carlos Garcia  43:38

Yeah, yeah. I win some cases I lose. Some cases, it just depends on what the evidence is. But it really is a lot about humanizing the soldier, learning about who they are, as a person, as an individual, where they come from in the world. What are their aspirations in the military, why they joined the military? What happened? You know, really humanizing and providing context, because the judges, they don’t really know the individual, you know, they just see a piece of paper and a charge, right? And so it’s, it’s our job to paint a picture of of who this person is, and he’s a human. Everybody you know makes mistakes. You know leaders make everybody leaders make mistakes. Non leaders make mistakes.

Michael Hingson  44:38

So I love it. So what is true progress labs? Let’s get to that.

Carlos Garcia  44:45

True progress lab is the organization I started some years ago, as I was saying, and I help people learn how to become calm. In situations that stress themselves, or they get stressed out, and then after they learn how to become in those situations, they can then become bold in those situations and get after it right, seize the opportunities that they want to seize. And I help both individuals and I go into organizations and do workshops, resilience and leadership workshops. And it comes a lot from my personal experience. And then when I became an army resilience trainer on the army side, where I coach leaders and soldiers at jag attorneys on on resilience, very similar topics on how to manage stress and build resilience in the workplace. It’s a program we have in the army that was built several years ago. It’s a train the trainer program so people soldiers, such as myself, they get trained in resilience training, and then we go back into our unit, and we train those concepts and principles in our respective units and help help other soldiers, other leaders, develop resilience. And a lot of what I learned there, I infused into true progress lab, because I realized, you know, like myself, I liked a lot of resilience, and the army Resilience Program taught me a lot, and it’s, it’s, it’s definitely something that I never thought I would be doing, because, you know, I went to law school, and now I’m, I’m a resilience coach, right?

Michael Hingson  46:39

So what does that mean? Exactly when? What is resilience, and how do you teach it?

Carlos Garcia  46:45

Yeah, resilience is I define as the ability to bounce back, but not just bounce back, and not just be flexible, right in spite of challenge or adversity or uncertainty, but be able to thrive despite it right to be able to use adversity as a stepping stone to get stronger and go after those big opportunities, and the way we train it is very similar to what I described some moments ago, which is about creating identity, expanding experiences that build the kind of evidence and proof that you are that person that can get through these difficult feats, that you can get through these difficult challenges. And it’s about stacking those pieces of evidence so that you can actually go after those big opportunities, so that you can actually shoot high, so that you can actually shine when it counts in the workplace. Yeah, and we do that through the physical conditioning and the mental conditioning that I was describing earlier, and learning how to manage your thoughts. You know, like we give these techniques on on managing your emotions and thoughts, these emotion and nervous system regulation protocol, because you need that, right? Because you’re gonna, you’re gonna fail. You’re gonna, you know, it’s not all roses, it’s you’re gonna, you’re gonna go through these experiences and challenges. You’re gonna, you’re gonna fail. But that’s what makes you resilient, right? Is learning how to learning how to get back up despite the failure. And if you don’t know how to do that, you’re gonna stay on the ground. You don’t want you don’t want to stay on the ground. You want to be able to know what to tell yourself so you can get back and and try again, right?

Michael Hingson  48:31

And of course, it’s all about it’s not so much the whole word failure, as it is learning to deal with mistakes, but but you do have to learn resilience. You do have to learn to to bounce back, and we all should do more of that than we probably do. And I realize there are a lot of different kinds of personalities, and some people will do it more easily than others, but again, there’s so much that we don’t train, for example, children growing up that it would be so, so good if we spent more time doing some of these things with our kids. But unfortunately, we didn’t learn it either, and that that doesn’t help the process,

Carlos Garcia  49:10

for sure. Yeah, there is a concept that sticks with me from this psychologist. Her name is Angela Duckworth, and she has a concept that she describes she calls people who haven’t really learned how to fail, fragile perfects. And basically it’s this notion that you have really smart kids, or people are very talented and they’re used to winning all the time. But when they fail, they don’t know how to fail, because they’ve never failed, and so when they fail, they have a difficult time getting back up, right? And so that’s why, you know, I’m all about creating, being proactive in terms of creating those stretch experiences or those challenging experiences for yourself, so that you callus your your mind. So that you learn how to be res, because you need because you’re going to have failures in life, right? And if you’re not used to failing, it’s going to be, it’s going to be very difficult for you. You’re going to have all these Ivy League degrees, but you’re not going to know what to do when, when things get bad.

Michael Hingson  50:18

Yeah, you’re not going to learn what the real world is truly all about, correct?

Carlos Garcia  50:23

And so it’s going to get bad, yeah?

Michael Hingson  50:26

Well, so you coach people all over the world. You don’t just coach people in the military.

Carlos Garcia  50:34

No, on the military side, I’m an Army resilience trainer. So that’s only the military, but true progress lab is civilian, and it’s in the US, so we do one on one coaching, but I also do workshops inside of organizations, law firms and tech companies, on resilience, on how to build resilience, and some leadership training as well. But it’s a lot of it has to do with resilience.

Michael Hingson  51:02

So what are your clients biggest struggles? When they come to you?

Carlos Garcia  51:07

There are a lot of symptoms that we find, and it depends highly on on who they are. You know, if it’s a leadership team or if it’s like a smaller team, but it runs the gap. But the common themes that we’ve seen are dysfunctions within teams. Dysfunctions within teams. That’s number one, and number two is not knowing how to handle the pressure. And as a result of not knowing how to handle the pressure, there are a lot of mistakes that are being made there. There’s a lot of blaming that is that is being done, and that causes more team dysfunction. So it’s almost like, like a vicious cycle, right? So one of the things I like to do is because when I do these workshops, people want to see, they want to see, okay, how do we build a how do we build a good team? How do I become a good leader? But it’s, it always starts with, we find a common theme starting with the person, right? It’s the leader themselves, in terms of not knowing how to manage themselves, their internal state, because they want to handle teams, but first they need to learn how to handle themselves. So we like to start with personal resilience, like, how do you manage yourself? How do you manage your thoughts, your emotions, your nervous system when you’re in high stress situations? And then from there we start. Okay, now I can think a little clearer. Now let me see more objectively what is actually going on here, because we go in there and people are thinking something, but then they realize that, after they learn how to manage their thoughts and emotion their nervous system, they have a clear picture of what’s actually going on. So that’s very eye opening.

Michael Hingson  53:03

One of the things that you said part of it already, but you say get calm. Get bold and get after it. What do you mean by that?

Carlos Garcia  53:11

Yeah, get calm is about learning how to manage your thoughts and emotions and nervous system when you’re in a high pressure situation, becoming comfortable in the uncomfortable becoming okay with having eyeballs on you, like you said earlier, right when you’re doing your presentations, you you’ve learned not to really have a problem with it, right? Because after you learn that, then you can actually create room to start taking risks, to start being bolder. You can’t be bold if you’re not having the the foundation of competence and competent and confidence. Once you have that foundation and you’re calm when it’s stressful, then you then you allow the space for risk taking, for smiling more, for not seeing challenges as threats, but seeing challenges is challenges. And after you do that, then you can actually get after it. Then you can actually go after those bigger opportunities. It works in that in that order, I have found, in my experience, not the other way around. How do you

Michael Hingson  54:16

help people learn that process? Get calm, get bold, get after it.

Carlos Garcia  54:21

Yeah, so we do it through the physical conditioning. We do it through the mental conditioning. We do it through learning more about what it is that you want. So something that I learned years ago from this psychologist. His name is, I can’t think of him, but he wrote a book leading with character, Jim, I can’t remember. His first name is Jim Lauer, and he wrote a book called leading with character. And in that book, I learned that every leader, every person, should have an ethos, a personal ethos, a personal constitution. And what that is is just like a. Country has their own constitution. Each human being should have their constitution of values, of clarity on their mission, clarity on their vision, clarity on what they want their legacy to be about. Once you have that you’re much, you have more clarity on what you need to be focusing, on what you need to be prioritizing. And I find, and I have found, that that has really helped me stay focused on the right things and not let the external world modify my decisions and actions. That’s a key component of helping people get calm and bold and get after because you need to know what you need to be focusing on in the first place, right? And then building, stacking that evidence, stacking that proof that you are that person, right by doing these hard things, these identity expanding experiences. And then once you have expanded that, that level of comfort in the uncomfortable, then you are allowed to then seize those opportunities, take advantage of those opportunities, because you’ve created that, you’ve built that

Michael Hingson  56:05

right well. And again, I think one of the really important parts of all of this to keep your own sanity and so on is that you don’t take yourself too seriously, and you you really work to to work with people and help people, but you’ve learned not to stress out, and you’ve learned that it’s important for you to set a role model and an example for the people you work with, and that you coach

Carlos Garcia  56:33

Yes, because we take part of not taking yourself so seriously, as you may know, Michael is not relying on job titles, not relying on status symbols, not relying on color belts, because we’re not just one job title, we’re not our job, we’re not a status we are a Growing organism. We are always growing. We’re always learning. And so if you think in that way, yeah, you’re not going to take yourself too seriously, right? You’re not going to you’re not going to fix yourself on on identifying yourself as this persona or that job title or that leadership position, because you’re in a constant state of growth and learning. And with that mindset comes a mindset of knowing that you shouldn’t be so stiff and take yourself so seriously because it’s not going to help you get outside your comfort zone when you need to get out your comfort zone and grow, right, right?

Michael Hingson  57:39

What do you say to someone who says, Well, I really don’t need to learn anymore. I really know all that I need to know. Yeah, I bet you’ve heard that before.

Carlos Garcia  57:48

Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, you have people like that who don’t really want to stretch themselves, you know, and that’s perfectly fine. I mean, you don’t need to read more books if you don’t want to, you don’t need to stretch yourself. But there’s going to be a opportunity that’s going to show up and you’re going to not know how to take advantage of it, because you decided to be have that mindset, right? Yeah? So, yeah, I found that I need to be in I need to be always stretching myself. Because if I it’s your comfort zone is, it is like a drug. You’re it’s very you. You get attached to it, you get addicted to it, and it’s very hard to let go of your of your comfort zone. I have found, you know, and I was like that for years. It was very difficult for me, so I had to create momentum and build a routine of continuous friction in my life, so that I learned to be comfortable when there is discomfort, because if you’re always too comfortable, then you’re not. It becomes more difficult to jump out and seize that opportunity, because you’ve been in your comfort, comfort zones for so long that you’re not, you don’t, you don’t want to do it. Your instinct is to avoid or to hesitate, right, right?

Michael Hingson  59:08

What would you say to someone who comes to you and says, you know, I’m just continuing to have problems. I’ve tried all sorts of things and I’ve just given up. What do you say to them?

Carlos Garcia  59:18

You’ve given up? Okay, well, I can’t help you if you’ve given up, but I would say you have to, you have to stress, stress test yourself. You have to, you know, learning knowledge doesn’t really do much you have calming techniques doesn’t really do much if you’re not creating the type of identity, expanding experiences that that teaches you about yourself, about what you’re made of, right? That’s why people do all these crazy things. That’s why people run 200 miles, because it’s a way of learning how to it’s a way of learning about yourself, and that’s how you stop letting fear control you, how you get bold and get after. Is by creating experiences, not just reading books about it, you know, and and learning about it, but doing it right. So there’s this, there’s this. I just want to say there’s this quote from this stoic philosopher. Is his name is mucelonius Rufus, and he gives two examples that that stuck with me. To illustrate this point, he gives the example of two doctors, right? One of them, you know, talks about medical matters, but has never really actually cared for sick people. The other doctor, though, isn’t really able to talk about medical stuff, and he stumbles even when he tries to talk. But he’s cared for sick people, right? Who would you rather choose as your doctor? And he gives another example of sailing. One has sailed many times, and the other knows the theory behind sailing, right? He’s just read books about it, but he’s never really sailed before. He’s never been in the sea sailing boats. Which would you rather choose, right as your pilot? So yeah, in other words, you don’t acquire strength, courage, mental toughness, which, which you need to build that resilience? Right? By realizing that things that people fear shouldn’t be feared, but by practicing being fearless. Yeah, right.

Michael Hingson  1:01:29

Well, I know we had a guest on the podcast not too awfully long ago who made a very interesting point, and that is that you can read a lot of things in books, and you can get a lot of information. And we were talking about and the whole concept that I had of the mindset kicked in on September 11, and his point was, but that’s different than actually having the knowledge, because the knowledge is really the power, and the knowledge allowed the mindset to kick in and for you to be able to function. And I thought about that, and he’s absolutely right. Information is lovely, only to a point, but if you can’t truly internalize it and make it work, then it’s then it’s not going to right,

Carlos Garcia  1:02:14

yeah, yeah, go ahead. No, just say you have to apply that knowledge and pressure situations, because you’re not going to remember it if you haven’t practiced it, right? It’s like a martial artist who watches videos of kicks, but if he’s never really tried the kicks when it’s time to fight, it’s not going to just suddenly pop up in his mind, right? You need, you need to internalize it like, like you just said,

Michael Hingson  1:02:37

Well, if people want to reach out to you, and I hope they will, how can they do that?

Carlos Garcia  1:02:42

Yeah, so I have a website, true progress lab, calm. And then if anybody has any questions, you can email me at hello at true progress lab, calm. And then I’m also on social media. My social media handle on most social media platforms is true progress

Michael Hingson  1:02:59

lab, so it’s singular lab, right? True. Progress lab, correct.com. And social media handle is to progress lab, well, that’s, that’s great. Well, I’m sorry we didn’t get to meet your daughter. We we had an introductory call, folks, and when we did, she was in the room, so it’s kind of fun to talk to her. Yeah, she’s two, which she’s very, very vocal. Well, I want to thank you for being here. This has absolutely been a lot of fun, and I’m glad that we got to do all of this, and I hope people will reach out to you. I certainly would appreciate it if all of you out there observing the podcast, would reach out to me. I’d love to know your thoughts. Love to know what you think of today. You can reach me. At Michael, H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, love to hear your thoughts. Love to get your opinions and wherever you’re watching or listening to the podcast. I hope that you will give us a five star review on the podcast. We value your ratings and your thoughts very highly, so please do that. In addition, if you know anyone who you think ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, would love to have introductions, so please have them reach out to me. That would be great. And Carlos you as well. If you’ve got any thoughts, I’m always looking for people and more people to meet and so on. But this has been really wonderful, and I want to thank you once more for being here and being with us for the last hour. Thank you very much, Michael, it’s been a pleasure.

Michael Hingson  1:04:40

You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.