What happens when a lifetime in broadcast news meets faith, purpose, and a desire to share hope instead of headlines? In this milestone episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with John and Val Clark, hosts of The Clark Report, to talk about life after the newsroom, marriage, service, and seeing the world through a biblical lens. John reflects on more than four decades in television news and the emotional weight of covering tragedy, while Val shares her journey as a teacher, volunteer, and financial coach helping families regain control of their money. Together, we explore retirement, resilience, faith, and why focusing on what you can control is key to living with less fear and more intention. This is a thoughtful conversation about perspective, purpose, and building an Unstoppable mindset grounded in hope.

Highlights:

00:10 – Hear why John and Val shifted from reporting the news to sharing hope through a faith-based podcast.

07:38 – Learn how decades of early-morning news work shaped resilience, discipline, and perspective.

12:36 – Discover how focusing on what you can control helps reduce fear in moments of crisis.

26:04 – Learn how budgeting from a biblical perspective can help people regain financial stability.

39:19 – Hear how The Clark Report chooses topics that bring faith and hope into today’s headlines.

52:36 – Understand how communication, compromise, and shared purpose strengthen marriage and teamwork.

About the Guest:

John and Val Blanding Clark are the producers and co-hosts of The Clark Report, a weekly faith-based podcast that looks at current headlines from a biblical perspective. John and Val have been married 39 years. They currently live in central North Carolina and have two adult children.

John is a recently retired news broadcaster with more than four decades of experience. He retired last December after serving as morning news anchor for the ABC-TV station in the Raleigh-Durham area of North Carolina, a post he held for 32 years.  During his broadcasting career John covered it all: political races, weather emergencies, crime and punishment, human interest stories, and even a few celebrity interviews.  He has a Bachelor’s degree in Journalism from Penn State University, and is currently pursuing a Master’s in Biblical Exposition from Liberty University.  John is a native of Philadelphia.

Val Blanding Clark is a native of Wilmington, North Carolina, and is a former elementary school teacher. She has a Bachelor’s degree in Elementary Education from the University of North Carolina at Wilmington. Since leaving the teaching profession, Val has volunteered countless hours for various non-profits, including serving many years in PTA leadership and as a charity fundraiser.  She is also a trained Budget Coach with Crown Financial Ministries, assisting families and individuals in getting their household finances under control. In addition, Val is a longtime blogger, posting regularly online about Christian living.

John and Val have both served as Sunday School teachers, Marriage Mentors, and volunteers for many church outreach projects in the community. Additionally, John has served as a church Deacon and Elder.

You can check out their new podcast, The Clark Report, on YouTube and Spotify, or go to their website, TheClarkReport.com. They drop a new episode each Wednesday. 

Ways to connect with John and Val**:**

Webpage: TheClarkReport.com

About the Host:

Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.

Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.

https://michaelhingson.com

https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/

https://twitter.com/mhingson

https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/

accessiBe Links

https://accessibe.com/

https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe

https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/

https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/

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Transcription Notes:

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Michael Hingson  00:00

Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.

Michael Hingson  01:20

Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion diversity and the unexpected meet, and we’re not going to probably deal a whole lot today with inclusion or diversity, because we get to deal with the unexpected, whatever that is. Our guests today are John and Val Clark, who have their own podcast called The Clark report. It’s a faith based podcast. And actually, they found me and asked if I would be on their podcast. And I agreed. And then, of course, I sprung on them the fact that now they have to come on unstoppable mindset. And here they are. They’re in North Carolina, and so we’re doing this across country. It’s amazing what you can do with the speed of light communications, as opposed to having to use covered wagons back in the day, as it were. But anyway, we Yeah, but we’re really glad that both of you are here. So John and Val, thank you for being here and for agreeing to come on and and for conversing with us today.

Speaker 1  02:23

Michael, thank you for having us on the program. Thank you for having it was a quid pro quo,

Michael Hingson  02:28

yeah, well, you know, and as long as it’s fun, as I tell people, the only rule about being on unstoppable mindset is you got to have fun, or you can’t come on the podcast. So, you know, you’ll have to force yourself, sounds good. So anyway, we usually only have one person. A few times we’ve had more than one person. So today we get to talk with both of you, and I’m going to do what I usually do, and ask each of you to start by telling us a little bit about the early ones of you, so like the early John and the early Val growing up, who wants to go first?

Speaker 1  03:05

Well, let me just say first that, because you have two of us, that means we get double pay.

Michael Hingson  03:09

You do you get you? Do you absolutely do have your have your people. Call my people,

03:15

right? We’ll do Yeah.

John and Val Clark  03:17

Well, since I started out, I was born and raised in the on the coast of North Carolina, and grew up, you know, kind of small town girl type of thing.

Michael Hingson  03:29

What town? Wilmington? Oh, Wilmington, yeah.

John and Val Clark  03:34

So we were used to hurricanes and all that. They call it hurricane alley, alley and something like that. Lot of hurricanes come through there and but anyway, grew up there, went to school there, went to college there, University of North Carolina, Wilmington, and graduated with a degree in elementary education, and taught for a few years. So just kind of a lot of traditional family upbringing, that sort of thing. And one brother, one sister, hi, that’s about it.

Michael Hingson  04:11

So there. So you’re not anywhere. You’re not anywhere near Mitford, North Carolina, huh?

John and Val Clark  04:17

No, I don’t know that. You don’t Medford.

Michael Hingson  04:20

Oh, it’s a great series of books. It’s a myth. It’s a mythical town. It’s not on the coast, but, oh, okay, it’s a great series of books. You would, you guys would enjoy them.

Speaker 1  04:30

Oh, all right. Mitford, is it set in modern times?

Michael Hingson  04:34

Yeah, okay. Jan, Karen wrote them. They’re, they’re really, great. You guys should, you should read them. They’re really They’re wonderful books.

John and Val Clark  04:42

Where is it set? As far as the is it middle of the state mountains?

Michael Hingson  04:46

I think it’s more in the mountains as I recall.

John and Val Clark  04:49

Okay, all right, we’ve got it all there

Michael Hingson  04:53

you go. All right. John, your turn.

Speaker 1  04:56

Well, I was born and raised in a log cabin. No, Philadelphia,

Michael Hingson  05:03

you walked 12 miles to return three cents once. Yeah, I know

Speaker 1  05:07

that’s right. They called me Honest John, but didn’t stick. I was born and raised in Philadelphia and went to Penn State University, and after graduating with a degree in journalism, I took my first job in Fayetteville, North Carolina, working for radio stations, news department, small news department. I was there for just a little over a year, and then started working for ticket station in Wilmington, North Carolina, where I met my bride Val and from there few years, to Nashville, Tennessee, for a few years, and then the last 30 some years here in the Raleigh, Durham area of North Carolina, working for a TV station

Michael Hingson  05:52

I retired. You work for the ABC affiliate, as I recall, that’s correct. Yes, wow. So did any of the people from Good Morning America ever come through and say hello to you?

Speaker 1  06:04

Oh, yes, uh huh. And we had a situation at my last station where every day virtually, we would talk to someone from Good Morning America. So ginger Z, the meteorologist to them, they would talk about what’s coming up on Good Morning America, yeah, exchange jokes and things like that. So yeah, but they would come by for promotional shoots and things like that. That was a lot

Michael Hingson  06:27

of fun. Yeah, man, I have not met any of them. I wish I had been able to, but it was, of course, after September 11 and ginger wasn’t there, but Charlie Gibson, Diane Sawyer. We almost met Diane Sawyer because we were in New Jersey looking at homes when we were moving back there, and she was coming by one of the houses that we were looking at to use it, possibly for some sort of a news thing that they were doing as a backdrop. But we just missed her, so we didn’t get to to actually meet her. I think that would have been a lot of fun.

Speaker 1  07:05

Oh yeah, yeah, she’s a semi retired now. She still does, she

Michael Hingson  07:09

still does things she’s She just has been doing a special on Bruce Willis and the whole, the whole thing, and his wife and so on. So yeah, that’s that’s been pretty good. So yeah, she, she keeps at it. Barbara Walters is a little bit more retired.

07:29

You might say that, but

Michael Hingson  07:31

she, she shows up every so often.

07:34

Well on video, she shows up, yes,

Michael Hingson  07:36

yeah, more on video than anything else. Well. So how long ago did you retire? December of last year. Oh my gosh. So you’re newly retired.

07:48

Yes, enjoying it thoroughly.

Michael Hingson  07:51

So what do you guys do in your retirement? You do a podcast. But what else?

John and Val Clark  07:57

Well, I’ve been for many, many years just doing volunteer work through school, in the community at church. So I do a lot of volunteer work personally,

Speaker 1  08:06

and I’ve increased some of my volunteer activities at my church. And I’m also starting to, I’ve not starting to. I am taking courses toward a master’s degree in Biblical Exposition, online sitting in classrooms,

Michael Hingson  08:24

right? What church do you guys go to? Providence?

Speaker 1  08:29

Church, Providence, Baptist Church. Here. Okay,

Michael Hingson  08:33

cool. Well, that keeps you busy, yes, yeah, well, so John, for you in all the time that you worked in the news media and all of that. What was the biggest challenge that you ever had working all those years in news?

Speaker 1  08:49

Well, it was 43 years total in news broadcasting. The biggest challenge actually, was my schedule, because for the last 32 years, I was the morning news co anchor, which required me to get up about two in the morning and to get into the office at 330 the office of the studio. We were live on the air starting at 4:30am and we went to seven o’clock, and then they extended and we went to eight o’clock. So that was that. And just you have to be perky and upbeat and good morning, and you know, you like, I’ve been up for 10 hours, and I’m perfectly fine. Actually, I got three hours to sleep the night before. So yeah, that was the biggest challenge, the physical nature of that schedule, and trying to get enough sleep in and trying to look like I wasn’t a zombie on TV?

Michael Hingson  09:43

I think the person that I keep thinking of who must have really had a tough time was Aaron Brown with CNN on September 11, because he was the main guy that reported all day. But also Peter Jennings on. And on ABC, of course, he had given up smoking, and after September 11, he started smoking again, and then eventually died of lung cancer, which is so sad. What a great reporter he was,

Speaker 1  10:13

yes, and I remember that story about Peter Jennings having given up smoking and then starting it right back up again after that horrific event, and it’s a shame, as you say,

Michael Hingson  10:26

what was it like for you on September 11? What, what kinds of things did you have to do in terms of dealing with the news and all that? Or were you, were you exposed much? Because really the the network did most of it, I would assume,

Speaker 1  10:41

yeah, when you have huge stories of that nature, the network takes over. And basically, for the first few hours, we’re just sitting back and watching along with everybody else, and then we are trying to figure out the local angles. We have, any people in our area who are connected to that event, September 11, or a hurricane somewhere, a tornado or, God forbid, a mass shooting somewhere. Do we have any local people connected to it? Do we have people in our area who can be experts to talk about that? So that’s what we were doing. But the first few hours, it was just watching what Charlie Gibson and Diane Sawyer and the rest of the ABC people were doing on that particular morning, and it stunned us, like everybody else,

Michael Hingson  11:28

yeah, and understandably so, I, I love to tell people that when the planes hit the building, one of the very first things that I did, well, we got, we had, I had a colleague with me, and I got him to take our guests to the stairs, and I said, don’t let them take the elevators, because he had already seen fire above us, and I knew what the emergency evacuation procedures were, and I knew that in the case of an emergency, especially where there’s fire, don’t take elevators, which was a smart move, but he was taking our guests to the Elevator or to the stairs. So I called my wife and actually woke her up and said there was an explosion or something, and we’re leaving the complex. Of course, she wanted to know more, and I didn’t have any more to tell her. But as I love to tell people that call took place, because I’ve seen the phone bill at 847, in the morning, scooped Charlie Gibson and Good Morning America by eight minutes and didn’t get a Pulitzer or anything for it. So disappointed.

12:27

It happens, Michael,

Michael Hingson  12:31

but no, I know, you know, people had to make sense of it. I do have a recording of a news report from an ABC radio affiliate. And I think now I don’t remember what state it was in, go back and look, but it was the very first report from the affiliate about the World Trade Center being hit by an airplane. And it was, it was still, like, about eight or seven or eight minutes out from the time it actually hit, before the news got to anyone, you know. And so it is, it is one of those things. It’s just crazy. But you know, then, of course, everyone was able to pick up on it. Then of course, tower two collapsed. And I’ve talked to so many people who say we had heard about it. We turned on the TV, and when tower two was hit, we just thought it was a movie. We didn’t realize it was the other tower being hit all over, you know, for the first time.

Speaker 1  13:37

Yeah, it was. It’s surreal watching it, I can’t imagine what it was like for you, going through it and those 1000s of other people.

Michael Hingson  13:46

Well, actually, in a sense, it was, it wasn’t a problem for me, because I going down the stairs and so on, was very focused on encouraging Roselle, my guide dog, to work and to do a good job and praising her and so on. And that’s part of the value of the team. My job was to let her know I was okay, and that was important to me, because if she reacted at any time in a way I didn’t expect, that would give me a clue that there’s something going on that I have to pay attention to that’s out of the ordinary, but if she just behaved and reacted like she normally would, all the way down the stairs, which is what happened, then I knew everything was was going to be okay, and so I focused so much on her and other things, there were A couple of times that people panicked on the stairs. David Frank, my colleague who had flown in to be part of the seminars that we were going to be doing that day to teach our reseller partners how to sell our products. David at about the 50th floor, panicked, and he said, Mike, we die. We’re not going to make it out of here. And I just snapped at him as. Sharply as I could. It was very deliberate. Stop it. David, if Rosell and I can go down these stairs, so can you. And he told me later that that brought him out of his funk. And what he did was, he said, I want to walk a floor below you on the stairs and shout up what I see on the stairs. And he said, is that okay? And I said, Sure, if that’s what you got to do. So he started shouting up instead of floor below me. So we got to I was the 45th floor, and he was at the 44th floor, and he says, Hey, I’m at the 44th floor. This is where the Port Authority cafeteria is not stopping. The reason I mention it is because what David did by shouting up to me was he became a voice for anyone who could hear him, a voice that said that somewhere on the stairs, somebody was okay, and he always sounded okay. So he had to help keep lots of people from panicking as we went down the stairs, which is one of the stories that just doesn’t get told very often. That’s amazing. Yeah, he did a he did a really cool thing. So Val, you taught school. What was your biggest challenge as a teacher? My wife was a teacher for 10 years, and she taught primarily, well, the lower grades, but third grade, but she taught some others as well. But she was a teacher for 10 years. Wow.

John and Val Clark  16:22

I also taught third grade at one point and fourth, third, fourth and fifth. And the grades that I prefer, because they’re a little older and can do a little more, and they’re fun. Group, age group. My biggest challenge, though, teaching is such a hard job, because you have to try to meet so many different needs, so many students at different ability levels. They’ve got all the requirements from the administration, and you got parents and everybody’s expectations, and it’s just a lot to a lot of needs have to be met. So I hats off to all those who get through it. I did it for a few years before stopping to stay home after we had our children,

Michael Hingson  17:09

my wife eventually retired, in part because she frankly got tired of dealing with parents like one day she always had agreements with her kids when they were going to have a party, if you get your work done, we can have the party. Is that okay? Everybody agree to that? Everybody agrees to it. Well, one day they were going to have a Valentine’s Day party, but they had to get some work done, and the kids were goofing off. The parents were all outside getting chicks because the party wasn’t starting. And eventually the kids got their work done and the party started, but one of the parents went off and complained to the principal, and so the principal called Karen in and and said, What’s the deal here? And and he knew Karen, so he really knew. And she said, Well, I had an agreement with the kids that the party would start when they got their work done and they were goofing off and they weren’t listening, they weren’t doing what they were supposed to do, and we didn’t start the party until they got their jobs done and they got their work done, so teaching the kids responsibility and so on. You know, the parent wasn’t very happy, but she, I guess she had, well, she had it. Well, she had to deal with it because was the way it is. But you know, the bottom line is that parents can be a challenge. I have a niece who’s teaching pre K right now. She’s, I’m kind of in agreement with her. The school district has brought pre kindergarten into the school district, and so she’s teaching three and four year olds, and she said that is really hard because they don’t listen. Some of them are our children with special needs that make it even harder, but she said they just don’t listen to anything she she had been teaching kindergarten until she did pre K. She’d love to go back to kindergarten, but she says, I don’t want to leave this classroom to go to another classroom, because this classroom is the one she’s had for so long.

John and Val Clark  19:09

It’s a challenge. I mean, That’s putting it mildly, but it really is. I don’t miss it personally.

Michael Hingson  19:16

Yeah, I have a secondary teaching credential. I got my teaching credential while I was getting my master’s degree, and I and I appreciate teaching. I love teaching, and I think that there are times that all of us are teachers in one way or another. But it is, it is a challenge. I’m really amazed at people who never learn really to observe. I went to a book club meeting once people had read my book thunder dog, which was the story of being in the World Trade Center and so on. And I was assured when I walked in, everybody’s read the book and they want to talk about it, and I opened it for questions in the first. Question was, well, what were you even doing in the World Trade Center? Gee, I thought you read the book. It’s amazing. I didn’t say that. I just answered the question. But, yeah,

20:12

so it goes. So it goes. It does,

Michael Hingson  20:16

but, but, you know, we we deal with it.

20:21

We do indeed, we do indeed.

Michael Hingson  20:24

Well, I hear you, so I’m assuming, John, you don’t miss the the news business very much. You like retirement.

Speaker 1  20:35

I miss the people I worked with because when we weren’t on the air or during commercial breaks, or video store was on sometimes, you know, we would cut up a bit and tell jokes and inside jokes, and it was a fun group over the course of my time there. But the hustle and bustle of the news itself is really something that I don’t miss, and I to be quite honest, I’m not watching as much of it as I was when I was in the work world, and I kind of like it that way. I’m not saying that people should not watch the news. They should stay informed, but I just needed to take a break from it after all the years that I did it,

Michael Hingson  21:18

well, there’s so much craziness on the news nowadays anyway, I mean everything from all the the gun violence and so on and just all the things that are going on, it’s got to be really tough for news people to deal with all that, and sometimes deal with it with a straight face, true, True.

Speaker 1  21:40

And most of the time when I came home, I would leave it at work. Most of the time, there were times when it just stuck with me. And I hated in particular, stories that dealt with child abuse or babies being hurt, or things like that. Or, you know, a child is out with his mother on the street, and gunshots erupt by two idiots who were shooting at each other, and the child gets hit, and now the child is para those stories always stayed with me and impacted me, and sometimes I had trouble going to sleep at night.

Michael Hingson  22:20

Yeah, especially when you knew you had to get up the next day and go right back to it. True.

Speaker 1  22:28

True. Another challenge I would have would be breaking news when you’re put on the air. You know, beating on for a newscast is one thing you’re on at 430 or on at 12 o’clock or 6pm but when there is breaking news and you have to break into programming to cover it, for example, there was a there’ll be a report that there’s a jet, passenger jet that is coming into the airport, and they have signaled that there’s an emergency on board. And so they scramble the fire department and the ambulances to the airport, and they say, We want you on the air, the your supervisors to talk about what we see, because we’ll have a camera up. Several cameras were rushing our reporters to the scene to get this plane as it’s making an emergency landing. And so you, and if you’re lucky enough, you have a co anchor at the time, and you have to ad lib what you’re watching and seeing, and you don’t have a lot of information, right? So you end up repeating things over and over. And then in your earpiece, one of the producers will tell you that the model of the plane, or where it came from, or how many passengers were on board, and so you’re repeating this information. And then inside you’re hoping and praying that this plane lands safely.

Michael Hingson  23:52

I can appreciate that. I think the thing that that I find the most frustrating with the news out here is when there is an earthquake, and we’re really pretty well constructed, so we don’t, you know, have death and so on. But gee, even with a three and a four on the Richter scale, Quake, they come on and they talk for an hour or more, and they mostly, mostly are saying the same thing, and nothing else is happening, but they just keep talking about the same old thing, and it seems like sometimes there’s a little bit of overkill when they do that. And at the same time, one of the things that happens out here is with like the ABC affiliate, they have the helicopter up in the air following emergency police chases and so on. And they do the police chases, they finally get the person. But if you don’t happen to be there watching it when they get the person, you never hear about it the next day, which is always very frustrating, which is kind of strange.

Speaker 1  24:58

Well, those videos and. They’re always from California. Seems like those police, they show up on YouTube and on social media, and they’re always fascinating to watch and and I can see why they cut in the program to do that sure turn away from it once it’s how is this going to end? Are they gonna catch this guy?

Michael Hingson  25:21

Yeah, and and, and they very, frankly, don’t repeat themselves very often, so it’s not the videos, but, but what is so amazing? They spend so much time reporting it, and the next day, there’s nothing on the news about it at all. That’s what’s really kind of bizarre, in a way.

Speaker 1  25:40

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But you’re right.

Michael Hingson  25:43

They’re, they’re kind of addicting. It’s, it’s amazing to see these videos just continue to happen.

Speaker 1  25:52

I saw one video, I think it was from California. We were watching at the station on one of the closed circuit things that wasn’t going out on the air where we were, but in the station, we could see it, somebody had stolen a Winnebago or in one of those large mobile home things and eating police on a chase with that. How are you going to get away in a mobile home in a Winnebago? Of course, they got stopped, but it was that was the most bizarre. But, well, I guess OJ was probably the most bizarre. Oh, that was really bizarre. We were one was a strange one too.

Michael Hingson  26:28

We were at the, I think, the San Diego fair. The night that the OJ Chase took place. We got in our car, we were driving home, and they were, they were the people were all on reporting about OJ and all that, and it’s not like he was going overly fast or anything like that, but it was really weird, and they eventually caught him. But even, even they had the way they were talking about it was, What a weird situation, and it was

27:01

absolutely sure,

Michael Hingson  27:03

go figure. Well, so Val you also do work helping people with budgets and so on. How did you get involved in being a budget coach?

John and Val Clark  27:14

Well, after our son and daughter graduate from high school, I was looking for something else to do, and this opportunity came up to be a volunteer with an organization called crown financial ministries. It’s a they help people with their budgets, but from a biblical perspective, biblical teachings and they it’s basic budgeting, but it’s really helpful for a lot of people, and since I had come through being in debt myself before, I really felt like I could understand when people were in financial trouble or I was having trouble with their budget, so I could lend a sympathetic ear, but just sort of, you know, have patience and work with them to get their act together, so to speak.

Michael Hingson  28:07

Yeah, in like 1987 88 Karen and I had a time when we were in debt and the income wasn’t great, and we had been reading Catherine Marshall, books you’re familiar with. Catherine Marshall, her husband, Peter Marshall, was the chaplain of the US Senate for a while, but she wrote a number of books about different faith things, and she wrote a story about a guy named Mueller who was in debt, and he was told you should declare bankruptcy, and he didn’t, and he worked very hard to get out of of being in debt, and did. And then started teaching other people to do it. And we were actually told by someone, you should declare bankruptcy because you’re perfect for it, and we chose not to, and it worked, you know. And so I very much appreciate the faith based realities of it. It’s going

John and Val Clark  29:08

to try to pay your debts. We can. And even if it takes a while, I would tell people, you know, you didn’t get into all this overnight. So it may take a little while to get out of it, but it’ll come.

Michael Hingson  29:20

You can work at it, and there are things you can do, make temporary

John and Val Clark  29:24

sacrifices, and then have that hope for that day when you will be in a better situation.

29:32

She even tries to keep me on a budget. That’s

Michael Hingson  29:35

how’s that working for you?

29:38

She’s a stern task master.

Michael Hingson  29:44

Yeah, she doesn’t let you sign the checkbook. She doesn’t let you sign the checks, huh?

John and Val Clark  29:48

Most people don’t want to talk about their money issues. It’s not a pleasant subject. Usually, yeah,

Michael Hingson  29:55

it can be a challenge. On the other hand, you know, we when we. Moved down here from the Bay Area. I was speaking full time, and there were times that speaking was not bringing in quite enough income, and we had to do some living off of credit cards. But Karen coordinated all that very well. And I think one of the best things that I like right now is credit with credit cards all being paid off and so on. I can tell the system when the credit card bill comes in, just pay it off completely. Wow, that’s great, yeah. And so I won’t say it keeps the temptation away, because I’m not even tempted. But, you know, it just makes it so much more convenient. She passed away in 2022 and everything was was straightened by then. We were married 40 years, and as I tell people, she’s monitoring so I got to behave myself. Otherwise I’m going to hear about it. But I I’ve been doing all the banking and so on, of course, now, and I love the fact that I can have automatic payments, and I just say, pay off the balance every month, yes. And that works out so well. And then I get everything electronically. And mostly the material is pretty accessible, so that helps. It didn’t always used to be that way, and that’s one of the things that working with banks and working with other organizations and getting them to understand the need and the crucial need to be inclusive and make things accessible. But it’s working, and we’re getting there. We’re slowly getting there. There are things that still aren’t but we’re getting there.

John and Val Clark  31:41

Yes, good, good to hear.

Speaker 1  31:43

Michael. Have a question for you who are a keynote, keynote speaker, and you travel the country making speeches, did you have training as a speaker? Did you Toastmasters or anything like that?

Michael Hingson  31:58

I attended some Toastmasters meetings, but I never was able to consistently be able to do it. I think the best way though to answer the question is that the training, I did have some training, I’ll get to that after September 11, but mostly I took a Dale Carnegie sales course, and I learned that the best sales people are people who can tell stories. The best sales people tell stories they they want to get you to personally relate to them and personally relate and you need to help them personally relate to what your situation is. And so I learned all about telling stories to illustrate different points. And then also, for a number of years, I participated in a church program. It’s an ecumenical program, but it’s sponsored originally, well it is by the Methodist Church. It’s called the walk to Emmaus. Have you heard of that? I have not. It’s a program. It’s it’s not bringing people to the Christian faith. It’s a short course in Christianity to teach people how to be leaders. And the the whole premise is that after the crucifixion, some people were walking on the road to Emmaus, and this guy comes up, and they end up talking, and they all go to to break bread together. And at that point, he reveals that he’s really Jesus. And the whole walk to Emmaus is a three day program, or four day program, essentially, that takes people through a lot of the Christian precepts to teach how to be a good faith based leader, which is really pretty cool. I am sure there are Emmaus programs around Raleigh.

Speaker 1  33:54

Durham, probably so walk them to walk to Emmaus stories in the Bible, by the way, that that from the Gospel of Luke Correct,

Michael Hingson  34:06

yeah, and, and that’s where they it’s an outgrowth of a Catholic program called crucio, but it, but it’s a it’s a good program. And so I, I was lay director one year, and that helped with speaking. But after September 11, when people started calling because the media got our story and said, we’d like you to come and talk to us and tell us lessons we should learn and so on, I did start to get a little bit of work from from a speaker coach who did help. One of the things that someone, some people, wanted me to do was to write my speeches and read them, and I found out very quickly that didn’t work. It didn’t work for me for a variety of reasons. In school, I had learned a lot about extemporaneous speaking, and I knew. That there are way too many people, and I’ve heard some of them who just read speeches, who just pair it what’s on a piece of paper, or they it’s all on a slide, but they still read the slides, and they’re turning around and looking at the slides and then turning back to the audience, but but they’re there. You could tell that it’s all being read and they’re not connecting with the audience, and I learned that one of the things that I needed to do was to connect, really connect with the audience. So I don’t read speeches, and I’ve had situations where I’ve actually had to completely redraft a speech in a few moments because a speaker’s bureau that brought me in to speak somewhere, told me what the organization was about, and clearly they hadn’t done their homework, because the organization I was speaking to wasn’t about anything like what they were talking about. I had to change, you know, literally on a dime, but I learned to do that, and I learned that my best approach to speaking is is is do my best to find out as much as I can personally ahead of time, but I now know when I’m telling my story. For example, I know what people will react to, and so if I make a statement that I expect people to be able to have an intake of breath to, or that causes them to focus and get quieter. If they’re doing that, then I know I’m connecting. And if they’re not, then I have to figure out what what it is while I’m speaking to be able to connect with them. But I’ve learned all that, and I’ve now been speaking for almost 23, and three quarters years, so it it’s a process.

Speaker 1  36:40

Well, I’ve seen some of your videos of you speaking publicly, and you hold folks in rapt attention. So folks audience, if you’re looking for somebody who will be a good keynoter, Michael is the guy that you should call, because he is excellent. And not only is he compelling, but and Michael, you can pay me about this later.

Michael Hingson  37:04

But not only is he Well, triple your salary,

Speaker 1  37:07

yes, that’s that would be, that would be good, but he has good information and inspirational anecdotes and information that you need to process if you have any concerns about your own life, and you make people feel so good after you’ve been through such a horrible situation, Michael, that people feel better for having heard you speak well.

Michael Hingson  37:36

Thank you. I hope so, because I think my job is to help inspire people, and now with a whole generation of people who have no personal experience of the World Trade Center at all, my job is to emotionally take them into the building with me and describe things in a, in a in a positive way, but describe things so that they are in The building with me, walking down the stairs with me, and then coming out the other end. And I do that because, in part, we have a whole generation that isn’t familiar with the World Trade Center except just some sort of historic event. But even people who were alive and who remember it again, think about the fact that for most people, the World Trade Center was only as big as the photographs they see in newspapers or the size of their TV screen. And so it’s although they they’ve got memories, it still is not something that most people relate to all that well. And what I need to do is to help people relate in some positive way to it. And I learned you read thunder dog, didn’t you? Or have you

Speaker 1  38:46

have not read it yet? Okay? Well,

Michael Hingson  38:50

in Thunder dog, I talk about running away from tower two as it was collapsing, because we were very close to it. And one of the things that occurred was that as as the building was coming down and David ran, he was gone, and I caught up with him, but, but he was gone, and I turned and was running back the way we came. It’s not to be the right way to go. The first thing I said was, God, I can’t believe that you had us come out of a building just to have it fall on us. And when I said that to myself, I immediately heard in my head a voice as clearly as the audience hears me, and as you hear me, it said, don’t worry about what you can’t control. Focus on running with Rosella and the rest will take care of itself. And I had this absolute certainty that we would be okay if we worked together, which is what we had been doing. And that mantra, if you will, has stuck with me very well. We worry about so many things that we don’t have any control over, and all that does is builds fear, and so that’s one of the reasons we wrote last year live like a guide dog, which is my third book. It’s all about learning to control fear and learning to recognize deal with the things. You really have control over and don’t worry about the rest of it. It doesn’t mean don’t be aware, but don’t worry about it, because there’s nothing you can do to control it anyway.

Speaker 1  40:09

Absolutely, that’s true, and that’s sound biblical advice, because that’s what sure God tells us.

Michael Hingson  40:16

Well, sure, absolutely. Well, tell me about the podcast, what caused you guys to decide that you wanted to to have the Clark report and actually start a podcast? What? What was the genesis of all of that?

John and Val Clark  40:30

Well, many years ago, many years ago, we know we would watch the news and see how the stories were presented, and we felt a lot of the perspective was left out, which was more of a biblical perspective, something that gives people hope. You just hear bad news, bad news, but where’s the hope? And we just wanted to do something. We brought the news headlines forth, but from a biblical perspective. So we had to wait for John to retire, of course, and so we’ve been waiting a long time to be able to do this. So we’re glad we’re blessed to be able to do it.

Speaker 1  41:06

Now, you know, Michael, I tell folks that for 40 some years, I told the bad news, and now I’d like to tell the good news with this next phase of my life, and that good news is what we find in God’s word

Michael Hingson  41:20

well, and you know, it’s high time we start hearing good news and and again, even the news that people would normally view as being bad. Again, it’s what you can and can’t control. And so if you can present that in a way to help people move forward, that’s always a good thing. It’s true.

Speaker 1  41:42

Yes, we spoke recently with one of the people from Samaritan’s Purse, who was down in Texas, where they had all that flooding recently, and this tragic case and the worlds who perished in the flooding, and we asked him, What do you say to people? And he had been to any number of tragedies when they asked why, and you don’t really want to give a person an answer to explain everything. They just want to be they want you to listen to their story, and they want you to care and show you care, and a hug, a smile, all those things make a difference. They’re not really looking for an explanation, so to speak. Yeah.

Michael Hingson  42:30

And unfortunately, some people say, Well, you’re not giving answers. You’re not explaining anything that, in part, is, at least in part, of what faith is about and the the reality is, why do you have to have specific answers to everything when you really need to figure it out for yourself? Because we can’t give answers all the time. People need to learn and discover

Speaker 1  42:59

yes and your situation where you heard the voice of God telling you what to do. I mean, you go through that situation again, but after you went through it and you heard the voice of God, I’m sure you were solidified in your faith, you know. But God’s there. He’s in I don’t understand everything that’s on, but I don’t have to understand everything. I just need to understand that he is there and I am in his hands ultimately

Michael Hingson  43:26

Well, and that’s really it, which is why I very much today, consistently tell people, don’t worry about what you can’t control. Focus on what you can and learn what that is, and let the rest take care of itself.

43:42

That’s true. Excellent advice.

Michael Hingson  43:45

It is. It is so hard to get people to do that, but again, you’ll be a whole lot less fearful. That doesn’t mean that if things happen, you’re not going to be afraid. But what we do need to do is to learn that we can control that fear and not let it overwhelm us or, as I put it, blind us. What we need to do is to learn how to use that fear to be a very powerful motivator and a very powerful mechanism to help us stay focused.

Speaker 1  44:15

I heard someone say once that worry is a down payment on a problem you may never have

Michael Hingson  44:21

and probably won’t have, I mean, because we more than 90% of what we’re afraid of never happens. Yes, now there’s a an endeavor. There’s a part of business called business continuity, and I spoke at a conference relating to that last year, and the people who are in that business describe themselves as the what if people. They’re the people that plan for emergencies. They plan for all of the things that could happen, and they’re the ones that think about, what do we do in different situations? But the other part of it is they’re not doing. It Out of fear. They’re doing it because they know that they need to keep the businesses running, and that’s part of the whole issue that we all can learn to do that if we try.

Speaker 1  45:10

So we know a lady, in fact, we interviewed her for our podcast, and she has been through a number of health challenges, everything, ever since she was a child, and she wrote a blog or a post some years back about changing your thought patterns from what if to even if, mm hmm, and even if I go through this, God is still with me. He hasn’t abandoned me, and he still is on the throne.

Michael Hingson  45:44

Yeah, and again, it’s all a matter of putting it in perspective. So how do you choose what topics to cover? How do you find your guests and how do you choose what you want to cover?

John and Val Clark  45:58

Well, we look at the current headlines. And then we see how that needs what we believe to be told with a biblical perspective to it. And then we seek out guests from just people we see on TV or online or or know of and that know how to speak to that topic from a biblical perspective?

Speaker 1  46:24

Yeah, we’ve now. We started back in July, so it’s still relatively new. We do a weekly thing, and we’ve talked about, for example, anxiety. How do you fight anxiety? What about anger issues? What’s the best way to control our anger. You know, the Bible says Be angry and sin not we talked about the wars that Israel is going through right now, and what’s it like to be there. Things have calmed down quite a bit since a few weeks ago, when we talked to this lady in Israel. We did a podcast that just dropped today on marriage, and we talked to one of the nation’s leading researchers on marriage, and he has some very interesting findings about the consequences, for example, of waiting longer to get married and saying, you know, I want to build up my career first, and then I’ll do this. But that has consequences. And he’s found that people who are married, they they have, are more financially stable. They tell researchers that they’re happier, they have better romantic and sex lives, and all the things that the media and the talking about pop culture speaks against. You know, married people are boring and they don’t really have a lot of fun and all that. Well, when you do the actual research and the surveys, you find that they’re actually having more fun and more enjoyment of life than those who are single.

John and Val Clark  47:48

And we interviewed a couple that were married. Has they have been married for 65 years? Yes, a long time.

Michael Hingson  47:57

You guys have been married for a little while,

John and Val Clark  48:00

39 years. I years, so I

48:04

robbed the cradle, right?

Michael Hingson  48:08

I love to tell people that so did my wife, because she was a year older than I was, but I but I also say that I taught her everything she knows. So, you know, yeah, she was in a wheelchair her whole life, and so I love to tell people she had the cutest wheels in town, but, but I hear what you’re saying. Did this person give any idea of kind of maybe, what the ideal age was for for people to get married, based on his research, research was

Speaker 1  48:43

mid 20s, when, I think he said mid 20s, yeah, and now is the average age is, I think, 30, when? When that happens? You know, people are different, and people have different personalities and what have you. But just when you have your own identity and you’ve established yourself, it’s harder sometimes to mesh those two together. And of course, if you want to have children, the longer you wait to get married, the fewer you’re likely to have.

John and Val Clark  49:12

Yeah, and he said that attitude of, you know, we versus me. Think of it as a we versus together. The more you can think of yourself, you know, your one unit, just like the Bible says to to become one flesh, and you have to think like that, not it’s all about me,

Speaker 1  49:27

which is so different than what the world teaches you about it’s all about me. I’m number one.

Michael Hingson  49:34

We got married at ages 32 and 33 but as we we tell people we were and both of us were looking for the right person. It wasn’t that we were against getting married younger or career, but we both were waiting for the right person to come along, and knew that that would happen, and then when it did, we met in January of 19. 82 and by June, we were talking a fair amount. And I actually took a trip to Hawaii to do some selling over there. And I took my parents with me. And at that time, Karen was a travel agent, so she did our ticketing, and I started calling her twice a day from Hawaii, and that’s where it really started. So we I proposed in July, as it were, and we got married in November of 1982 but we knew that the marriage was going to last, because the wedding was supposed to start at four o’clock, and it didn’t start until the quarter after four, because well over half the church wasn’t there. Over half the church wasn’t there. And at 12, after four, the doors opened, and this huge crowd came in. And so we were able to start, and we asked later someone, Well, where was everybody while they were outside in their cars waiting for the end of the USC Notre Dame game? Oh, and I want to point out that Karen being a USC grad, well, she graduated. He did her master’s work at USC, we won, so God was on our side,

51:14

and that’s the key to a good marriage, right?

Michael Hingson  51:16

That’s right, God being on your side always helps. It was Bailey’s great. It was a it’s a fun story, but, you know, it is interesting. I’m not surprised that he says the mid 20s. I watched something on 60 minutes a couple of weeks ago about frozen embryo and frozen eggs and and talking about, the longer you wait, the harder it gets.

Speaker 1  51:42

Yeah, yeah. And you have a situation where he was talking about marriage rates and birth rates have plunged in Western nations like Japan and South Korea, where it’s not it’s well below replacement stage. And you have elderly people who have never been married, and they are, many of them dying of loneliness, yeah,

Michael Hingson  52:10

well, you know, and I was married for 40 years, and I know that what I’m not going to do is move on from Karen, I move forward, and I make a distinction between those two, because if I move on, then I’m going to be looking for other things and all that. But I’m going to move forward, because I’m going to keep her in my memory and so on. And she, she’s got a 40 year part in my marriage, my life, so of course, I’m going to think about her. And what a what a wonderful set of 40 years of memories, there is

Speaker 1  52:41

and you were married, just was it a few weeks after you met?

Michael Hingson  52:47

No, it was a few months. But it wasn’t that long.

52:50

Okay, okay,

John and Val Clark  52:52

so we were married after about seven and a half months, yeah,

52:56

about right after we met. It’s about

Michael Hingson  53:00

what it was with. We met in January and got married in November, so 11 months, but same thing, but we knew what we wanted, and the right person came along, and clearly that was was a good thing. And people say, Well, how can you marry a person in a wheelchair? And my response was, it worked out really well. She read, I pushed. Worked out well.

53:22

I Well, she sounds like a special lady, yeah,

Michael Hingson  53:25

oh, she was brand is so you know, how do you all do when you’re working on the podcast? You guys are married and all that, and I’m sure you’re a good team. But what’s it like working as husband and wife on the podcast

John and Val Clark  53:42

was it’s a different type of relationship, but still blending all those years of marriage together, we have challenges.

Speaker 1  53:51

Yeah, we have we both have strong personalities. We both know what we want, what we don’t want, and it’s a matter of compromise, and sometimes I think she’s wrong, and sometimes she thinks I’m wrong, but we both have the same common goal in mind, that we want to do something that honors the Lord and will be a benefit to people. We want to give people the help and hope that we believe God’s Word provides through His Son, Jesus.

John and Val Clark  54:18

And we’ve been wanting to do this for so long. So, you know, you make the compromise, yeah, and make it work. And how do you do that? You do a lot of praying. It can’t be just me against you again, just as we were saying, it’s gotta be we not

Michael Hingson  54:34

a me. And so I’m assuming that also means there’s a lot of talking, yes, yes, a lot of talk, and that’s the key. I mean, praying is, is is great, but the two of you have to communicate. So talking is clearly key.

John and Val Clark  54:49

Definitely, you have to speak up to say what you think. But also, you know, you gotta be considerate of the other person, right,

Michael Hingson  54:58

right? It’s all. All about communication. Got

Speaker 1  55:01

you got two sinful people, and I’m not talking specifically about Val being sinful, but, but who put their lives together, and you’re going to have disagreements and little friction from time to time, but we have the common goal, yeah.

John and Val Clark  55:22

Fun. It’s good that when we see the products come out, or hear people say that they enjoyed the podcast, yeah, they got something out of it, yeah. So it’s great.

Michael Hingson  55:32

Well, and that’s what’s really cool. I didn’t ask you. How did you guys meet?

Speaker 1  55:38

Well, in Wilmington, North Carolina, that was school, teaching at school, and I was a news broadcaster. And as part of a being a news broadcaster, you are required, or strongly suggested that you make public appearances in different places. You speak to church groups and school kids and civic groups, and we at our particular TV station were going out to different elementary schools to talk to the kids in an auditorium setting about the importance of wearing their seat belts. This is back in the mid 80s. And so I was assigned one school, and someone had told me, If I ever got to go to a particular school, I need to look up Val Blanding, because maybe you two could be together. I think you’d make a good match. So when I looked at the schools, I found that I was not assigned to her particular school, so I switched with the sports guy. I ended up at her school. After I finished talking to the kids in the auditorium about the importance of seat belts, I went up to one, I said, Do you know where a val Blanding is? And she pointed out Val, and I walked over to her, and that’s how they met. So I think

John and Val Clark  56:49

that student who pointed me out to him,

Michael Hingson  56:54

Oh, yeah. And so Was it love at first sight?

John and Val Clark  57:01

I say it was obviously liked him. He I invited him back to do another story, something with my class specifically. And he did come back.

Speaker 1  57:12

I came back. Yeah, I could tell the very first meeting was very brief, maybe a 1520 seconds, because she was working trying to, you know, herd her kids and get them back to the classroom. And I’m passing through,

John and Val Clark  57:25

and I wasn’t supposed to be socializing anyways, because I was working, yeah, and so.

Speaker 1  57:29

But during that 1520 seconds, she gave me a smile, and she gave me an indication that she wouldn’t mind seeing me again buy

John and Val Clark  57:37

them back to do another story. That’s how it started.

Michael Hingson  57:40

Well, there you go. And it worked. Yes, well, that’s really cool. In 39 years, so you guys are doing well, so next year it will be Wow, big four. Oh the big four. Oh. So back to 1986 to 2026 that’s pretty cool. Well, if you had the opportunity to view to interview and talk with anyone on the podcast, who would you like to get? What kind of what are some of the guests you’d really love to get?

58:13

Well, very Michael hangs it on. So who else do we

Michael Hingson  58:16

need? Oh, listen to him.

Speaker 1  58:19

Actually hasn’t aired yet, but we’ll, we’ll put that on September 3 and September 10, our interview with Michael. Yeah, for me, you know, I was thinking actor Denzel Washington, because not only is he, you know, an Academy Award winning actor, he’s been in some some of my favorite movies, but he’s also someone who has spoken openly about his faith, and you dealing with that and use that and manage that in Hollywood, I’d love to hear the inside situation about that.

John and Val Clark  58:53

Yeah, he’s been married in time, and I could go with that. I’d say the same thing. That would be great.

Speaker 1  58:59

Denzel Washington would be so Denzel, if you’re watching right now, to have you on the podcast, and I think Michael probably would too. That’d be fun.

Michael Hingson  59:07

Yeah, I’d love to. I mean, they’re, they’re a number of people who I think would be be fun to have on the podcast. And so I, I believe everybody has stories to tell, and so it’s my job to try to help bring the stories out and and help people show the rest of us that we all can be more unstoppable than we think we are, because we tend to usually underrate ourselves. We we sell ourselves way too short anyway, much less dealing with faith.

Speaker 1  59:42

And how did you Well, I know how you got started. I mean, after September 11 with this particular niche and trying to motivate people to that they are unstoppable, and they do sell themselves short too often. And I know you must get an excellent response when you. To speak to groups and situations like that.

Michael Hingson  1:00:04

Four years ago, I began work with a company called accessibe, and they asked if I would do a podcast, because I was looking at doing a podcast to try to help generate funds, and instead, they hired me, but they said they wanted a podcast. And I said, What do you want? And they said, Well, we really don’t care. What we want is something to show the world that we’re a part of it. And so I started unstoppable mindset, and it’s been going ever since. And at the end of August, the 29th of August, tomorrow, we’ll publish episode 366 since we began in August of 20 Oh, 21 wow. Yeah, we went to two episodes a week when we got visible in LinkedIn, and a lot of people have asked to come on. So it’s, it’s been a lot of fun.

Speaker 1  1:00:57

Well, you’re an excellent host. I mean, you just, it’s very comfortable talking with Yeah,

Michael Hingson  1:01:02

that’s true. Well, if people want to reach out to you, come on the podcast or or learn about budgets or whatever. How do they do that?

Speaker 1  1:01:12

Clark at the Clark anymore? Well, if you go to the email, is Clark, no. Eon Clark. My parents couldn’t afford the E Clark at the Clark report.com is our email, and we have a website called the Clark report.com

John and Val Clark  1:01:30

so Clark at the Clark report.com to communicate with us.

Speaker 1  1:01:34

Yes, that will be good, or just hit us up on social media. We’re on X Facebook, not so much. Instagram, so LinkedIn,

Michael Hingson  1:01:45

LinkedIn, yeah. Well, great. Have you guys, between you at all written any books or anything yet?

1:01:54

I have not, no. Have not written any books.

Michael Hingson  1:01:56

Well, that’s something to think about. Down the line. Probably you can make a book out of some of the podcast episodes, once you have enough to do it,

Speaker 1  1:02:04

that’s true. That’s good. Love to think about that good idea we

Michael Hingson  1:02:07

are well, I want to thank you for being with us today. This has absolutely been enjoyable, and I’m glad that we had a chance to chat. And as I’ve always said, this is a conversation, so we all contributed, but I think this is a wonderful episode, and I really appreciate your time being here, and we’re anxious to hear more of what goes on on the Clark report, by all means. And I want to thank the rest of you for listening and watching us today. Thank you for being here and being a great audience. Love to hear from you. Feel free to email me at Michael H I M, I C, H, A, E, L, H i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I B, e.com, Michael H i@accessibe.com or go to our podcast page, www, dot Michael hingson.com/podcast and hingson is h, I N, G, S o, n, wherever you’re observing our podcast, please Give us a five star rating. We love your reviews. We appreciate you talking about us and hopefully saying nice things. We really want to hear your thoughts. And if any of you, including you, John and Val, know of anyone who ought to be a guest or you think ought to come on unstoppable mindset, we’re always looking for more. Folks would really appreciate your ideas and your thoughts, and now we’re all going to have to go out and look for Denzel Washington, by all means. But I want to, I do want to thank you all again for being here. This has been absolutely a joy, and I appreciate your time. Thank you

Speaker 1  1:03:36

for having us. Thank you for having us, and thank you for all you do, Michael, just inspiring people and advocating for those who have disabilities and challenges and just who are tireless in what you do.

Michael Hingson  1:03:53

You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.