Episode 374 – Unstoppable Marketer with Gee Ranasinha

Sit back and relax but pay attention to my conversation with Gee Ranasinha. Gee lives in the Northeast part of France. As he puts it, his marketing experience goes back to the “days of dial-up internet and AOL CDs”. During our conversation Gee tells us how he progressed from working with film, (do you know what that is?), to now working with the most advanced digital and other technological systems.
 
He is the CEO of his own marketing company KEXINO. He talks a bit about what makes a good marketing firm and why some companies are more successful than others. He says, for example, that most companies do the same things as every other company. While labels and logos may be different, if you cover up the logos the messages and ways to provide them are the same. The successful firms have learned to distinguish themselves by being different in some manner. He practices what he preaches right down to the name of his company, KEXINO. He will tell us where the company name came from. You will see why I says he practices what he preaches.
 
Gee gives us a great history of a lot of marketing efforts and initiatives. If you are at all involved with working to make yourself or your company successful marketing wise, then what Gee has to say will be especially relevant to you. This is one of those episodes that is worth hearing more than once.
 
 
About the Guest:
 
Gee has been in marketing since the days of dial-up internet and AOL CDs. Today, he’s the CEO of KEXINO, a marketing agency and behavioral science practice for small to medium-sized businesses.

Over the past 17 years KEXINO has helped over 400 startups and small businesses in around 20 countries grow awareness, reputation, trust – and sales.

A Fellow of the Chartered Institute Of Marketing, Gee is also Visiting Professor at two business schools, teaching Marketing and Behavioral Science to final-year MBA students.

Outside of work Gee loves to cook, listens to music on a ridiculously expensive hi-fi, and plays jazz piano very badly. 
 
Ways to connect with Gee:
 
KEXINO website:  https://kexino.com
LinkedIn:  https://linkedin.com/in/ranasinha
YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/c/Kexino
Instagram:  https://instagram.com/wearekexino
TikTok:  https://tiktok.com/@kexino
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@wearekexino
BlueSky:  https://bsky.app/profile/kexino.com
 
 
About the Host:
 
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.
 
Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.
 
https://michaelhingson.com
https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/
https://twitter.com/mhingson
https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/
 
accessiBe Links
https://accessibe.com/
https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe
https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/
https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/
 
 
 
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Transcription Notes:
 
Michael Hingson ** 00:00
Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I’m Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that’s a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we’re happy to meet you and to have you here with us.
 
Michael Hingson ** 01:16
Well and a gracious hello to you, wherever you may be, you are now listening to an episode of unstoppable mindset. I am your host, Mike or Michael. I don’t really care which hingson and our guest today is Gee Ranasinha, who is a person who is very heavily involved in doing marketing and so on. Gee has been marketing for a long time, and reading his bio, he talks about being in marketing since the days of dial up and AOL and CDs. I remember the first time I tried to subscribe to AOL. It was a floppy disk. But anyway, that’s okay. The bottom line is that does go back many, many years. That’s when we had Rs 232 cables and modems. Now people probably don’t mostly know what they are unless they’re technically involved and they’re all built into the technology that we use. But that’s another history lesson for later. So Gee, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We’re really glad you’re here. This should be a fun subject and thing to talk about.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 02:27
Well, thank you very much for inviting me, Michael, I do. I do appreciate it.
 
Michael Hingson ** 02:31
Well, I’m looking forward to it and getting a chance to talk. And love to hear some of your your old stories about marketing, as well as the new ones, and of course, what lessons we learned from the old ones that helped in the new ones. And of course, I suspect there’ll also be a lot of situations where we didn’t learn the lessons that we should have, which is another story, right?
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 02:50
Yeah, history does tend to repeat itself, unfortunately, and
 
Michael Hingson ** 02:55
that usually happens because we don’t pay attention to the lessons.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 02:59
Yeah, yeah, we, we, I think we think we know better. But I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s funny, because, you know, if you look at other other industries, you know, if, if you want to be an architect, right, you would certainly look back to the works of, you know, Le Corbusier or Frank Lloyd Wright or Renzo Piano, or, you know, some of the great architects, and you would look back on their work, look how they did it. And you would, you know, turn back the the annals of history to to see what had gone before. But for some reason, in our industry, in marketing, we we don’t think we can learn from the lessons that our erstwhile peers have had in the past, and we’ve so as a result, we tend to sort of rename things that have gone before, so that the newer generation of marketers will actually pay attention to them. So we give things new names. But actually, if you, if you scratch the surface and look a little bit deeper. It’s actually nothing new at all. And I don’t quite know why that is. I think people think that they know better than the people who’ve gone before them, because of the technology, because you know so much of the execution the promotion side of marketing is technology based. They I’m guessing that people don’t see a relevance to what happened in the past because of the technology aspect being different, right? But what I contend is that the the essence. Of marketing is about understanding human behavior and their reactions to particular inputs, impulses, right? Um, in which case, we have plenty to learn from the people who’ve you know, who’ve walked in our in the walk this path before, and we should be a little bit, maybe a little bit more humble and open minded into accepting that we don’t know everything, and we maybe don’t even know what we don’t know.
 
Michael Hingson ** 05:36
I always remember back in what was it, 1982 or 1983 we had a situation here in the United States where somebody planted some poison in a bottle of Tylenol in a drug store. I remember that, yeah, and within a day, the president of the company came out and said, This is what we’re going to do to deal with it, including taking all the bottles of all the pills off the shelves until we check them over and make sure everyone is clean and so on. And he got right out in front of it. And I’ve seen so many examples since of relatively similar kinds of crises, and nobody takes a step to take a firm stand about how we’re going to handle it, which is really strange, because clearly what he did really should have taught us all a lesson. Tylenol hasn’t gone away, the company hasn’t gone away, and the lesson should be that there is relevance in getting out in front of it and having a plan. Now I don’t know whether he or anyone really had a plan in case something happened. I’ve never heard that, but still whatever he got right out in front of it and addressed it. And I just really wish more marketing people, when there is a crisis, would do more of that to instill confidence in consumers.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 07:07
He did the right thing, right? He did, he did what you or I would have done, or we would like to think we would have done in this place, right? I, I’m, I’m guessing it was probably, not the favorite course of action, if this had been debated at board stroke shareholder level. But like I said, he he did what we all think we would have done in his place. He did the right thing. And I think that there are many instances today, more instances today than maybe in the past, where the actions of an individual they are. An individual has more freedom of expression in the past than they’ve had in the in the present, and they don’t have to mind their P’s and Q’s as much. I mean, sure we know we’re still talking about profit making organizations. You know, we’re living in a pseudo capitalist, Neo liberal society. But surely we’re still there still needs to be some kind of humanity at the end of this, right? You know, reputations take years, decades, sometimes, to build, and they can be knocked down very quickly, right, right? There’s so I think some somebody, somebody, somebody a lot older and wiser than me, well, certainly wiser older. Said a brand’s reputation was like a tree. It takes ages to grow, but can be knocked down very quickly, and there are plenty. You know, history is littered with examples of of organizations who haven’t done the right thing.
 
Speaker 1 ** 09:16
Well, the Yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead. Tell me
 
Michael Hingson ** 09:20
the I observed this actually not too long ago, on a podcast, this whole discussion to someone, and they made an interesting point, which I think is probably relevant, which is, today we have a different environment, because we have social media. We have so many things, where communications go so quickly, and we we see so many people putting out information right or wrong, conspiracy or not, about anything and everything that comes up, that it causes people maybe to hesitate a little bit more to. Truly study what they want to say, because everyone’s going to pick up on it. But at the same time, and I appreciate that at the same time, I think there are basic marketing principles. And as you point out, and as you’re well aware, there is such a thing as human behavior, and while people want instant gratification, and they want to know right now what happened 20 minutes ago. The reality is we’re not necessarily going to get that. The media doesn’t help because they want to put everything out and get the story. But still, the reality is human nature is human nature, and ultimately, Truth will win out. And what we need to do is to really work more toward making sure that that happens.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 10:48
I, I actually don’t agree with that. Okay, in in, you know, in the, in the with the greatest respect, firstly, I think, I think as a cop out to use social media, information channels, news cycles, that sort of thing, because, if anything, because of the pace of the news cycle and The, you know, the fire hose of social media today, me, we’re in a better position to say what we mean and not regret it, because it’s forgotten it 20 minutes. Yeah, so it works, it’s, it’s an argument for what we’re talking about not, not against
 
Michael Hingson ** 11:41
it, yeah. I agree. Yeah, go ahead,
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 11:45
yeah. And the second thing you said, truth will out. And I think truth does not without and there are plenty of people who continue to spout out misinformation and disinformation, yeah, constantly at every level of corporate at a corporate level, at a political level, at a geopolitical level, or at a local level, right? I don’t want to sort of go down that rabbit hole, right, but there are, there are plenty of misquotes, myths, truths, which are never, never withdrawn and never counted, never excused and live out there in the ether, in perpetuity.
 
Michael Hingson ** 12:35
Yeah, it’s true, but I also think that in the end, while some people continue to put their inaccurate information out, I think there are also others who have taken the time, or do take the time they put out more relevant information, and probably in the long run, more people buy into that than to misinformation. I’m not going to say it’s a perfect world, but I think more often than not, enough positive information comes out that people eventually get more of the right answer than all the yammering and bad information. But it may take time.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 13:18
I would love to believe that, Mike, I really would maybe I’m just too cynical, right?
 
Michael Hingson ** 13:27
I hear you, I hear you, and you know, I don’t know I could be just as wrong. I mean, in the United States today, we’ve got a government with people who are definitely talking about things and saying things that most of us have always felt are untrue, but unfortunately, they’re being said and pushed in such a way that more people are not opposing them. And how quickly that will change remains to be seen. And for all I know, and I think, for all I know, maybe some of what they’re saying might be right, but we’ll see.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 14:05
I think that’s the issue. I mean, I, as I said, I don’t really want to jump down that politics rabbit hole, but no, not really. I think, you know, the issue is, if you say a lie enough times, people believe it. Yeah, right, yeah. And the fact that nobody’s fact checking this stuff, I’m like, I said. I’m not. I’m not singling out politics. I’m singling out messaging in its widest in its widest interpretation, right, false messaging of any sort, if left unchecked. Yeah. Correct. I think the people who know an alternative reality or know that it’s a lie know that it’s an untruth by not publicly facts checking it, by not calling these. People out are complicit in spreading the lie.
 
Michael Hingson ** 15:03
Yeah, well, I think that’s true, and you’re right. It doesn’t matter whether it’s politics. It doesn’t matter whether it’s well, whatever it is, it’s anything. And I think there’s one of the beauties of of our country, your country. And I didn’t explain at the beginning that G is in the you said, northwest part of France, right? Northeast, northeast, well, east, west, northeast part
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 15:29
of Yeah, well, near enough, you know, if you go, if you go, if you go east, far enough times you get, you get to West Anyway, don’t you? Well, you get back where you started. Or maybe you don’t, I don’t know if, depends who you listen
 
Michael Hingson ** 15:39
to, right? If the Earth is flat. Well, even the Flat Earthers have had explanations for why the earth is flat and people don’t fall off, but that’s okay, but yeah, so northeast part of France and and I hear, I hear what you’re saying, and I think it’s important that people have the freedom to be able to fact check, and I, and I hope, as we grow more people will find the value of that, but that in all aspects, but that remains to be seen.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 16:14
Well, I think especially in you know, perversely, now that we have the ability to check the veracity of a piece of information a lot easier, right? Almost in real time. Yeah. I think the fact that we can means that we don’t, you know, you probably know the quote by what was his name? Edwin Burke, who may or may not have said that, you know, evil triumphs when good men do nothing or something like that. Along that sort of lines, some people say that he didn’t say that. He did say, it doesn’t matter who said it, right? It’s a great quote. It’s a great quote. It’s a great quote. And that’s what I mean about being complicit, just by the fact of not calling this stuff out, feeds the fire. Yeah, to the to the point where it becomes and especially, I’m talking with people who maybe are a little bit younger and haven’t and are more likely to believe what they see on screens of whatever size, simply because it’s in the public domain, um, whereas The older strokes more cynical of us may may question a lot more of what’s thrown in front of our eyes. So I think all of us have a responsibility, which I don’t think all of us understand the power that we yield or we’re afraid to or afraid to? Yeah, absolutely.
 
Michael Hingson ** 18:08
So tell me a little about kind of the early Gee growing up and so on, and how you got into this whole idea and arena of marketing and so on.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 18:18
Well before this, I was the CMO of a software company. I was there for seven years, and before that, I was working for a company in London, working with in the print and publishing industries. So I’ve been around media for most of my working life, and after, after being at the software company for seven years, sort of hit a little bit of a ceiling, really. I mean, the company was a small company, and it could only grow at a certain rate, and so I wasn’t really being challenged anymore. I had to wait a little bit until the company could fill the bigger shoes that had been given, if you like. You know, I mean growing pains. It’s very common for companies of all sizes to go through this sort of thing. So to be honest, I probably was treading water a bit too long. But you know, you get you get complacent, don’t you, you get comfortable in in the, you know the corporate job, and you know a salary at the at the end of every month, and you know corporate travel and company BMWs and expense accounts and all of that sort of trappings. And you know, I, I fell for all of that. You. Um, but I finally realized that something needed to happen. So at the end of 2007 beginning of 2008 Me and a couple of colleagues decided to start the agency, which, as you will remember, 2008 was not exactly the best time to start a marketing agency. Good time to start any agency,
 
Michael Hingson ** 20:29
to be honest. The other hand, there were a lot of opportunities. But yeah, I hear you. Well, yeah,
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 20:34
glass half full. Glass half empty, right? Yeah. But you know, luckily, with with a number of very, very supportive clients in those early days, you know, we weathered the post recession? Yeah, slow down. And 17 and a half years later, here we are. We’ve now. We started off with three. We were three. We’re now 19. We’re in nine countries. Nine of us were in the US. The rest are in Europe, South Africa, Japan, and two people in Australia. That’s that, that’s, that’s who we are. So, you know, we’re a a team of marketing, creative and business development specialists, and we work with startups and small businesses primarily in the US, even though we’re based all over the place, and we combine marketing strategy, proper strategy, with a thing called behavioral science, which works with organizations to increase their awareness, their reputation, their trust, and most of all, of course, sales Right? Because sales is name of the game. Sales is what it’s all about. So yeah, I’d say probably 80, 90% of our clients are in the US and, well, certainly North America anyway, and it’s all sorts of industries, all sorts of sizes. We’ve we’ve got, we certainly had in the past. You know, solopreneur type businesses, small businesses and larger businesses, up to around 40 to 50 mil to revenue that sort of size, anything bigger they usually have, usually got, you know, quite well, working teams within the organization. So we’re, you know, the amount of effective contribution that we can add to that is, it’s obviously going to be as a percentage, much lower. So it’s, it’s, it’s really for that, that smaller sized profile of organization, and it’s not sort of limited by particular industry or category. We’ve, you know, we work with all sorts. We’ve worked in sports, healthcare, FinTech, medical, professional services, software, publishing, all sorts, right across the board.
 
Michael Hingson ** 23:34
What got you started in marketing in the beginning, you you know you were like everyone else. You were a kid and you grew up and so on. What? What really made you decide that this was the kind of career you wanted?
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 23:46
Marketing wasn’t my first career. I’ve had a few others in the past. I actually started off my first first company, and I founded, way back when was a media production company. I was a professional photographer, advertising photographer, working with advertising agencies as well as direct corporate commissions. This is in the days of film. This was way before digital image capture.
 
Michael Hingson ** 24:20
So this is going back to what the 1980s
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 24:23
it’s going to late 80s to early 90s. Yeah, and I was working with eight by 10 and four by five view cameras, sometimes called plate cameras. It was mainly studio stuff. I was happier in the studio that we did location stuff as well. But studio was where I was happiest because I could control everything. I suppose I’m on control freak at the end of the day. So I can control every highlight, every nuance, every every part of the equation. And. And and that’s where I started. And then after doing that for a while, I came I got involved with professional quality digital image capture. Is very, very it is very, very beginning. And was instrumental in the the adoption of digital image capture for larger print and publishing catalog fashion houses who were looking for a way to streamline that production process, where, obviously, up until then, the processing of film had been a bottleneck, right? You couldn’t, you couldn’t process film any quicker than the film needed to be processed, right the the e6 process, which was the the term for using a bunch of chemicals to create slides, die, positives, transparencies. I think it used to take like 36 minutes plus drying time. So there was a, you know, close to an hour wait between shooting and actually seeing what what the result was. And that time frame could not be reduced up until that point in time, the quality of digital image capture systems wasn’t really all of that, certainly wasn’t a close approximation to what you could get with with film at The time, until a number of manufacturers working with chip manufacturers, were able to increase the dynamic range and the the total nuances that you could capture on digital Of course, the problem at that time was we were talking about what, what were, What today is not particularly large, but was at the time in terms of file sizes, and the computers of the day would be struggling to deal with images of that high quality, so It was always a game of catch up between the image capture hardware and the computer hardware needed to to view and manipulate the image and by manipulate it was more more manipulation in terms of optimizing the digital file for reproduction in print, because obviously that was the primary carrier of, yeah, of the information. It was for use in some kind of printed medium. It wasn’t like we were doing very much with with email or websites or anything else in the in the early 90s. So the conversion process to optimize a digital image captured file, to give the best possible tonal reproduction on printed material has always been a little bit of a black art, even when we when we were digitizing transparency films, going to digital image capture made things a lot more predictable, but it also increased the computational power needed, number one, but also for photographers to actually understand a little bit more about the photo mechanical print process, and there were very few photographers who understood both, both sides of the fence. So I spent a lot of time being a pom pom girl. Basically Mike. I was, I was, I was waving the pom poms and preaching large about the benefits of digital image capture and how and educating the industries, various in photographic industries, about, you know, possible best practices. There weren’t any sort of standards in place at the time,
 
Michael Hingson ** 29:41
and it took a while for people to really buy into that they weren’t visionary enough to understand what you were saying. I bet
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 29:48
Well, we were also taught very few were enough, and there were two reasons. One of them was financially based, because. We were talking about a ton of money, yeah, to do this properly, we were talking about a ton of money. Just the image capture system would easily cost you 50 grand. And this, you know this, this was in the days when 50 grand was a lot of money,
 
Michael Hingson ** 30:18
yeah, well, I remember my first jobs out of college were working with Ray Kurzweil, who developed Omni font, optical character recognition system. Oh, my goodness me, I did not know that. And the first machine that he put out for general use, called the Kurzweil data entry machine, was only $125,000 it worked. It still took a while to make it to truly do what it needed to do, but still it was. It was the first machine, and a lot of people just didn’t buy into it. It took a while to get people to see the value of why digitizing printed material was so relevant, some lawyers, Some law firms, some banks and so on, caught on, and as people realized what it would do, then they got interested. But yeah, it was very expensive,
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 31:14
very expensive. And I think the other reason for the reticence is just nature, to be honest. Mike, I mean, you know, as as people, as human beings, most of us are averse to change, right? Because change is an unknown, and we don’t like unknowns. We like predictability. We like knowing that when we get up in the morning, the sun’s gonna come up and we’re gonna go through our our usual routine, and so when something comes along that up ends the status quo to the point where we need to come up with adopting new behaviors that’s very uncomfortable for many people. And you know, the adoption of digitization in, you know, any industry, I think, in everybody who’s worked in any particular industry has has plenty of anecdotal evidence to show how people would consciously or unconsciously dragging their feet to adopt that change because they were happier doing stuff that they knew,
 
Michael Hingson ** 32:32
who went out of their comfort zone, right?
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 32:35
Absolutely, it’s natural, it’s, it’s, it’s who we are as as as human beings, who most of us are as human beings with, obviously, we’re talking about the middle of the bell curve here. I mean, there are plenty of wackos on either side just go out and do stuff, right? And, you know those, you know, some of those get, you know, locked up with in straight jackets. But the other ones tend to, sort of, you know, create true innovation and push things forward.
 
Michael Hingson ** 33:04
Steve Jobs, even Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, good examples of some of the people who did things that most people didn’t think could be done.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 33:18
You know, the true innovation always happens at the periphery, but we tend to over emphasize the median. We know we try to make averages of everything, yeah, but averages aren’t what moves the needle, right? No. And you know Britain, you know, for even for marketing, obviously, that’s very much, very, very much my sort of thing. Um, most organizations, most business owners, certainly most marketing managers, find comfort in in executing their marketing in ways in which they are comfortable, in ways which are somewhat expected within the industry. But the problem is, it doesn’t get you noticed. It doesn’t get you attention. If you’re in the middle, right? You know the worst, the worst place to walk on the in the street is in the middle of the road right, pick a side, but don’t walk in the middle.
 
34:27
Not a good idea yet.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 34:30
That’s our our job is to is to, number one, generate attention, because there’s no way we can communicate a message unless we have someone’s attention. Everything starts from the attention side of things. Now there are very, you know, various ways that we can attract attention, but attention needs to come and needs to come from somewhere. And you know the definite. Of creating attention is to to create some kind of visual, audio, or combination of the two, experience which is somewhat outside of the norm, and create some kind of emotional response that our brains want to pay attention to, right? Want to notice? Because if you’re not noticed, then there’s no it doesn’t matter how great your product is, doesn’t matter how wonderful your customer service is, or it’s available in 27 colors, or it’s free delivery, or what you know, all the rest of it doesn’t matter, because you know, unless people know who you are, what you do, who it’s for, and why they should give a crap, then you know anything else you do after that Time is is moot, is irrelevant.
 
Michael Hingson ** 36:00
I read an interesting email this morning from someone who was talking about why speakers don’t tend to be as successful as they should be. And this person talked about you could have the greatest speech in the world. You could be
 
Michael Hingson ** 36:17
talking and getting standing ovations and so on, but you’re not getting a lot of speaking engagements, and his comment was the reason you’re not is that your talk isn’t necessarily relevant. I thought that was interesting. I think there’s some things to be said for relevance, but I think it’s also that you’re not helping to get people to think and realize that being different and getting people to think and value that is more important than we tend to want to recognize as well.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 36:59
I would, I would, I would wholeheartedly agree relevance is a very important component. But, you know, I maintain that it starts with attention. Yeah, relevance, I think, within the speaking world, I yes, there’s so much we can do with relevance by by coming at a subject matter topic from a totally different perspective. Yeah, right. You know, just because you have the same message as 100 other competitors doesn’t mean they have to say something in the same way, right? And so even if the core message is similar, the way that we choose to present that can be, you know, 100 101 different ways. And I think that is something that we forget, and I think that’s one of the reasons why so much of the marketing that we see today is ignored. Yeah, you know, there’s a there’s a marketing Well, I wouldn’t say the marketing model. There’s a communication model, okay? Sales model actually called Ada, Ida, a, I D, A, okay. So even if you’ve not, not worked in sales or marketing at all, if you’ve even seen the film Glengarry Glynn Ross, or the play that it was based on. It’s actually playing in New York City at the moment. I believe, yeah, a, I D, A, which is tracking the customer experience in four steps. So the idea is you have awareness, interest, desire and action, right? A, I, D, A, and it’s understanding that there are four steps to getting to the position of negotiating the deal with a prospective buyer, but number one starts with awareness. You know they need, they need to be aware that you exist and nobody’s going to buy from you if they don’t know who you are. They need to know who they need to know who you are before they’ll buy from you. Right then obviously needs to be an interest a product market fit what you’re selling is something that they could conceivably use in terms of solving a particular problem that they perceive as having the desire. Why should they buy from you, as opposed to somebody else? Why do they. Need to buy your product, as opposed to a competitive product, and then finally, action, right? So that’s what we might call sales, activation or performance marketing, or, you know, sales in the old terms, right? As they would say in that film, it’s getting the getting the buyer to sign on the line that is dotted. But all of this stuff starts with attention and when we’re not doing a very good job, I think as a mark, as an industry, we used to be really good at it, but I think we’ve taken our eye off the ball somewhat, and hoped that technology would fill in the gaps of our incompetence at being able to, excuse me, being able to shape the way that we market to customers, to buyers, in ways which create the memory structures in the brain to a sufficiently acute level so that when they are in The position to buy something, they think of us, as well as probably a number a handful of other suitors that solve their problem. And this is why, I think this is the reason why, because of the over reliance of technology, I mean, this is the reason why so much of our marketing fails to generate interest, sales to generate the tangible business results that are expected of it. Because we’re, we’re marketing by bullet point. We’re expecting buyers to buy off a fact sheet. We’ve, we’ve exercised the creativity out of the equation. And we’re and, and we were just producing this vacuous, generic vanilla
 
Michael Hingson ** 42:12
musach, yeah, if you
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 42:14
like, Okay, I mean, again, you know, think of any particular industry, you can see this. It’s pretty much endemic. You can have two totally different organizations selling something purportedly solving the same problem. And you can look at two pieces of you can look at a piece of marketing from each company. And if you covered up the logo of each person of each company’s marketing output, 10 will get you five that what’s actually contained in the messaging is as equally valid for company A as it is for Company B, and that’s a real problem.
 
Michael Hingson ** 43:00
It’s not getting anyone’s attention or creating awareness.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 43:03
It’s not creating attention or awareness. And worse, it’s creating a level of confusion in the buyer’s mind. Because we’re we’re looking for comparisons, we’re looking at a way to make an educated decision compared to something else, and if we can’t see why product A is miles ahead in our minds of Company B or product B, what often happens is rather than make a wrong decision, because we can’t clearly differentiate the pros and cons between the two products, what we end up doing is nothing. We walk away. We don’t buy anything, because we can’t see a clear winner, which impacts company A and company B, if not the entire industry. And then they turn around and say, Oh, well, nobody’s buying. Why? Why? Why is our industry lagging behind so many others? It’s because we’re just on autopilot, creating this, this nonsense, this generic sea of sameness in terms of communication, which we just don’t seem to have a grip on the fundamental understanding of how people buy stuff anymore. We used to Yeah, up and up and up until probably the 90s. We used to know all this stuff. We used to know how get people going, how to stand out, how to create differentiated messaging, how to understand. Or what levers we could pull to better invoke an emotional reaction in the minds of the target buying audience that we’re looking to attract. And then for some for, you know the if we plotted these things around two curves, you know, the point at which these curves would cross would probably be the adoption of technology,
 
Michael Hingson ** 45:29
whereas we came to reproduce the same thing in different ways, but you’re still producing the same thing. The technology has limited our imagination, and we don’t use re imaginations the way we used to.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 45:43
We we’ve we’re using, we’re using technology as a proxy for reach. And getting in front of 1000 eyeballs or a million eyeballs or 100 million eyeballs doesn’t necessarily mean any of those eyeballs are fit in the ideal customer profile we’re looking to attract. Right? More doesn’t mean better, and what what we’re doing is we’re trying to use technology to to fill in the gaps, but technology doesn’t understand stuff like human emotion, right, and buying drivers and contextual messaging, right? Because all of this stuff human behavior is totally contextual, right? I will, I will come up with a and I’m sure you’re the same thing. You will have a particular point of view about something one day and the next, the very next day, or even the very next hour, you could have a totally different viewpoint on a particular topic, maybe because you’ve had more information, or just maybe for the for the hell of it, right? We know we are we are not logical, rational, pragmatic machines that always choose the best in inverted commas solution to our issue.
 
Michael Hingson ** 47:23
Do you think AI will help any of this?
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 47:29
I think AI will help in terms of the fact that it will show how little we know about human behavior, and so will force forward thinking, innovative marketers to understand the only thing that matters, which is what’s going on between the ears of the people we’re trying to attract. I think AI is already showing us what we don’t know, not what we know,
 
Michael Hingson ** 48:04
right? And it’s still going to be up to us to do something about that and use AI as a tool to help possibly create some of what needs to be done. But it still requires our thought processes ultimately, to make that happen,
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 48:23
AI can’t create. All AI can do is remix what has already been in existence, right? Ai doesn’t create what AI does. The thing is, we’re using AI for the wrong stuff. AI is really good at a ton of things, and it sucks big time at a load of other things. But for some reason, we want to throw all our efforts in trying to make it better at the things it’s not good at, rather than use it at the things that it’s really, really good
 
Michael Hingson ** 49:04
at, such as,
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 49:08
such as interpreting large data sets, Creating models of financial models, marketing models, marketing matrix, matrices, spotting, spotting trends in data, large, huge, like huge models of data, which no human being could really, in reality, Make any head in the tail of finding underlying commonalities in in the data to be able to create from that, to be able to draw out real, useful insights on that data to create new. New messaging, innovative products, services that we haven’t thought of before because we haven’t been able to see the wood for the trees,
 
50:13
if you like, yeah, right
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 50:17
for that sort of stuff, for the grunt work, for the automation. You know, do this, then do this, and all of that sort of stuff, A, B, testing, programmatic stuff, all of that stuff, banner ads and, you know, modifying banner all of that stuff is just basic grunt work that nobody needs, needs to do, wants to do, right? Give it all to AI it. Most AI is doing it, most of it anyway. We just never called it AI. You know, we’ve been doing it for 25 years. We just called it software in those days, right? But it’s the same. It’s the same goddamn thing. Is what we were doing, right? Let it do all of that stuff, because it’s far better. And let’s focus on the stuff that it can’t do. Let’s find out about what levers we need to pull at an emotional level to create messaging that better resonates in the minds of our buyers. That’s what we need to do. Ai can’t do that stuff right.
 
Michael Hingson ** 51:16
Where I think AI is is helpful today, as opposed to just software in the past, is that it has been taught how better to interact with those who use it, to be able to take questions and do more with it, with them than it used to be able to do, but we still have to come up with the problems or the issues that we wanted to solve, and to do it right, we have to give it a fair amount of information which, which still means we’ve got to be deeply involved in the process.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 51:53
I mean, where it’s great. I mean, if we’re looking at, you know, Text, type, work, right, right, or I, or ideas or possibilities, or actually understanding the wider consideration set of a particular problem is that the hardest thing is, when you’re staring at a blank piece of paper, isn’t it? Right? We don’t need that’s the hardest thing, right? So we don’t need to stare at a blank sheet anymore with a flashing cursor, right? You know, we can engage in a pseudo conversation that we need to take into consideration that this conversation is taking place based upon previous, existing ideas. So the chance that we’ll get something fresh and original is very, very small. And as you just mentioned, you know, the quality of the prompt is everything. Get the prompt wrong and without enough granularity, details, specificity, whatever else you get just a huge piece of crap, don’t you? Right? So in other words, having a better understanding of how we as humans make decisions actually improves our prompting ability, right, right?
 
Michael Hingson ** 53:12
And I think AI, it is not creative, but I think that AI can spew is probably the wrong word, but AI can put out things that, if we think about it, will cause us to do the creating that we want, but it’s still going to be assets involved in doing that.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 53:35
The problem is, and what we’re seeing, certainly in the last couple of months, maybe even longer, maybe I just haven’t noticed. It is just we were, you know, there’s this old saying, you know, just because you can doesn’t mean you should, right? I just see an absolute tsunami of vacuous, generic nonsense being spouted out across all types of channels, digital and otherwise, but mainly digital, all of it AI generated. Sometimes it’s images, sometimes it’s videos, sometimes it’s both, sometimes it’s text, whatever. But we we’re adding to the noise instead of adding to the signal. So the inevitable result of all of this is going to be numbness. We’re going to becoming different to marketing of all sorts, the good stuff as well as the bad. You’re going to be it’s we’re just gonna get numb. So it’s going to make the attention stuff. That’s why I’ve been banging on about attention all this time, right? It’s gonna, it’s, yeah, there’s, see, there is a method to my madness here. So the the point is that creation and maintaining. Attention is going to be even harder than it would have been before. Yeah, and, and we, you know, we’re getting to the point where, you know, you’ve got agentic AI, where you’ve got agents talking to other agents and going around in this feedback loop. But we’re not, we’re not, we’re not creating any emotional engagement from a, from a from a buyer perspective, from a user perspective, yes, it all looks great. And as a, as an exercise in technology, it’s fantastic. So wonderful, right? But how has it increased sales? That’s what I want to know has has it reduced or altered the cost of acquiring a customer and maintaining that customer relationship, because that’s where the rubber hits the road. That’s all that matters. I don’t care whether it’s a technological masterpiece, right, but if it hasn’t sold anything, and actual sales, I’m not talking about likes and comments and retweets and all of that crap, because that’s vanity metrics. Is nonsense
 
Michael Hingson ** 56:11
signing a contract. It’s, you know,
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 56:16
there needs to be as an exchange of money at some point in time. Yeah, right. Is that happening? And I contend that it’s not. And I think there are loads of people, loads of business owners, who are throwing money at this in the vain hope they you know that basically they’re playing the numbers. They just need one horse to come in, 100 to one to be able to justify what they’ve spent on all of this stuff, right? Yeah, but I think those odds are getting longer and longer as each month goes, yeah. Well, you I think there’s going to be an inevitable backlash back to stuff that actually resonates with people at a human level, at an emotional level, a psychological level, it has to
 
Michael Hingson ** 57:08
you started your marketing company 17 and a half years ago, caxino. Where’d that name come from?
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 57:18
From nothing? Okay, it doesn’t mean anything I needed. I needed to have something which number one, that the domain was available. Of course, I needed to have something which was short, something that didn’t mean, you know, something incongruous in another language and and so after a lot of to ing and fro ing, there were two schools of thought. At the beginning, we didn’t know whether to go with something abstract, like caxino or something which was, you know, based based upon the the butting up of two existing words you know, like you see, you know, so many times, you know, big red table, or, you know, whatever. So we did, we decided to go with something abstract, so that we weren’t encumbered by language.
 
Michael Hingson ** 58:22
You practiced what you preach pretty much. You’re different, yeah, but why don’t you call it? You don’t refer to it as a digital marketing agency. Why is that?
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 58:34
No, I don’t see us as a digital marketing agency, because digital marketing is not all we do. And not only that, I think, Well, I think there’s, there’s a number of reasons. Number one, I think we’re using the word digital is, is a curveball. Firstly, because everything that we do is digital, right? Everything is already digital. Print is digital, TV is digital, billboards are digital. So saying digital is like saying electrical, electrical marketing agency, it makes as much sense to be honest. So that’s number one. But I think the bigger issue is that by categorizing a marketing agency as being a digital marketing agency does a disservice to its work and indeed its outlook, because The object is not to be digital in your marketing, it’s to do marketing in a digital world, which are two very different positions, okay? Because digital, the way that we’re talking about it, is not a attributive noun, and it’s certainly not an adjective. You. In the context that we’re talking about it, digital is a channel. It’s simply one way of getting in front of our audience. But it’s not the only way of getting in front of our audience. Okay? So, yeah, along with many other reputable agencies, we happen to use the most appropriate channel of communication that makes sense to address a particular target audience group, and that’s it. Okay, if that’s digital, great. If that’s walking down the street with an A frame with something written on the front of it, that’s also great, okay, but it’s, it’s, it’s not about it’s not about the channel. It’s about you being in the places where our target target audience group expects us to be. And so that’s why I don’t think of us as a digital marketing agency, because digital is only part of what we do, right? And we do many other things. And also, I think it puts it, it puts blinkers on things right? Because if you know, supposing, supposing you go to a Facebook marketing agency, of which there are many. Now, if you go to a Facebook marketing agency and you say, Okay, I want to do some ads. Where should I advertise? What are they going to tell you? Right, maybe Facebook, right? So there’s, there’s a thing called Maslow’s hammer. Okay, in Maslow, as in the hierarchy, the Hierarchy of Needs Maslow. Okay to say, Maslow. He came up with this idea of Maslow’s hammer. It’s also known as the law of the instrument. And basically what it means, we can distill it down, is, if all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail, okay? And what that means is, you’re looking to solve any problem that comes along by the tools that you have in your toolbox, regardless of whether that’s the best way of moving forward, which I think is a very short term and myopic view. So that’s why we we don’t like to think of ourselves as the marketing agency, because there are many other there are many ways of solving a particular problem, and it doesn’t necessarily have to be
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:02:50
digital,
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 1:02:51
digital or promotional or, you know, it’s, it’s like, you know, are we a video marketing agency? No. Does that mean we don’t do video, not at all. Of course, we do it, right? We’re not an AI marketing agency, right? In the same way, okay, when we’re not a we’re not a YouTube marketing agency,
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:03:11
you’re a marketing agency. We’re a marketing agency, right? What are some of the biggest mistakes that small businesses make when it comes to marketing?
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 1:03:21
I think the single biggest mistake, and I speak to business owners pretty much on a daily basis, right? I think the single biggest issue that comes up again and again and again is something which I call self diagnosis, which is the business owner, approaches the marketing agency, or even digital marketing agency, approaches the marketing agency, and says, You know what, I need you to do this for me. Whatever that this is, okay. So you know, maybe it’s some digital ads, maybe it’s some videos, maybe it’s a website, maybe it’s a whatever. It doesn’t matter what it is, but basically, the business owner is coming to us, coming to the marketing agency, dictating what the tactic is to be, which presumes a number of things, not least, that they think they have come to the conclusion that this particular tactic is going to solve their marketing problem based upon usually waving a wet finger in the air, yeah, or they’ve seen a YouTube video or something, okay, it’s not based on any marketing knowledge experience or education, because, with the greatest respect, these people do not have any marketing knowledge experience. Into education, right? And why would they? Because they’re running a business, right? They don’t, you know, they it doesn’t mean that they’ve had to do this marketing stuff. So they’re, they’re, they’re presuming that a particular tactic is going to solve a business problem, a marketing tactic is going to solve a business problem. And so what what happens is the the particular tactic is is executed. Nothing changes revenue wise. And so the business owner says, well, that marketing agency was crap. Let’s go to another marketing agency and ask them to do something else. So it’s playing pin the tail on the donkey. Really, just trying stuff and hoping so. The point is that. The point is that if you’re going to pay somebody who does this for a living, the idea that you know more than they do is already setting the relationship on a uneven kill, right? Yeah, you know, if I, if I go, if I go and see my doctor, and I say, and I wake up in the morning and I’ve got a pain in my chest, and I thinking, oh my goodness, I go and see the doctor, right? So on the way to the doctor’s office, I do the worst thing possible, which is go on the internet and say, Okay, what does pain in my chest mean? Right? And I go into the doctor’s office, and I sit down and I say, Okay, I’ve got a pain in my chest, doctor, that means I’ve got angina. Can you give me some heart medication, please? What’s the doctor gonna tell you? Doctor’s gonna tell you, shut the hell up. Yeah, I’m the doctor in the office. I’m the actually, where’s, Where’s, where’s your medical degree doesn’t exist, does it? No, and
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:07:00
just because you have a broken rib, we’re not going to talk about that. Are we right?
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 1:07:04
So, What? What? So what’s the doctor going to do? The doctor is going to ask you a bunch of questions, right? What did you do the last couple of days? Right? What did you eat? Did you go to the gym and over exert yourself? What’s your history? Do you is there a history of heart disease in the family, you know, maybe there’s is going to he or she is going to take some blood, maybe they’re going to run a few other sort of tests. They’re going to do a diagnosis, and at the end of this diagnosis, the doctor is going to come back to you and say, You know what? So, based upon all the questions that you’ve kindly answered, and based upon the blood work and all these other tests and scans we’ve done, it turns out that the the pain in your chest is nothing to do with angina. The reason you got a pain in the chest is because you had some spicy food last night. So you don’t have you don’t have Anjali, you have gas. Yeah, right, right, so I prescribe you a couple of packs of Tums. Yeah, sorted, right. And that’s the point. The point is the doctor knows what he or she is doing, and you have to have confidence in that particular medical practitioner to diagnose the issue and prescribe a solution to that issue, right? Your job is not to say what you think is wrong with you at this stage of the conversation. Your job is to tell me where it hurts. That’s it right now, I’ll come back to you with a list of things which I think we need to do to move forward. Now you can go and get a second opinion, just like at a doctor’s office. You may think I’m full of crap, which is absolutely your prerogative. Or you may say, I know better than you. I’m going to do my own thing, which, again, it’s your time Absolutely. But if it all goes to crap, you can’t turn around and say, well, if only this person had said this, or, you know, If only, if only, if only, and play the victim, because that’s also just not going to wash. And I see this time and time and time again. You know, we’ve tried, well, we’ve tried a number of different agencies, and none of them have been able to help us. And then you sort of dig a bit deeper, and it’s because they’re never allowed to do what they’re supposed to do, because they’ve always been second guessed. Yeah, that is probably the single biggest issue that I see coming up again and again and again with small business in market now, if and if it’s a question of not having faith in that. Uh, agency, then you shouldn’t have been employed. You shouldn’t have that agency in the first place.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:10:05
Get a second opinion.
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 1:10:07
You know, not all, not all agencies are great, just like not all plumbers are great. Not all mechanics are great. Same thing, right? It takes time to find the good ones, right? Um, but just because you found a bad one, because I don’t know they were cheap, or they were local, or they were whatever, you know, whatever, whatever criteria you tend to use to base your decision upon, right? You can’t, you can’t criticize what they did if you didn’t allow them to do what they were actually being paid to do.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:10:47
Well, speaking of that, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that?
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 1:10:53
Best way to get hold of me. Gee is on LinkedIn. I spend most of my time on LinkedIn. I post twice a week. I post videos about some of the sorts of things that we’ve been talking about today, and they’re only sort of 60 seconds long, 90 seconds long. It’s not sort of taking up anybody’s time very much. You can find me there. Would you believe, Mike, there is only 1g runner scene on LinkedIn. Can you imagine fortuitous? How fortuitous is
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:11:27
that? Yeah, really, and G is spelled G, E, and how do you spell your last name?
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 1:11:33
You could eat. I’m sure all of this still, the stuff will be put in. It will, but I just figured it we could. But yeah. G, renasina, you can find me there. Otherwise, obviously you can find us on Kexino, k, e, X, I, N, o.com, which is the website, and there’s plenty of information there textual information, there are videos, there are articles, there are all sorts of bits and pieces that you can find more about us
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:12:04
there. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful, and I really appreciate you taking more than an hour to chat with us today. And I hope this was fun, and I hope that people will appreciate it and will reach out to you and value what we’ve discussed. I think it’s been great love to hear from all of you out there. Please feel free to email me. Michael H, i@accessibe.com so that’s m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, and love to hear from you wherever you’re listening. Please give us a five star rating. We value those ratings very highly, and we’d love to to to hear and see you rate us and get your thoughts. If you know of anyone else who might be a good guest for unstoppable mindset. Gu as well, we’d sure appreciate your referring them to us. Introduce us. We’re always looking for more people to to chat with, so please do that and again, gee, I just want to thank you one more time for being here. This has been great,
 
Gee Ranasinha ** 1:13:02
absolute pleasure, delighted to be invited.
 
Michael Hingson ** 1:13:10
You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you’ll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you’re on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you’re there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.