Episode 449 – Addiction Recovery, Resilience, and an Unstoppable Life with Eric Fisher
The lessons that shape us often come from the places we never planned to go and the challenges we never expected to face.
In this conversation, I speak with Eric Fisher about the experiences that shaped his approach to mental wellness, resilience, grief, and personal growth. Eric shares how martial arts taught him balance, self-control, and perseverance, and how those lessons now help him guide people through addiction recovery, relationship challenges, and life’s hardest moments. We explore the realities of grief, the power of trust, the difference between inpatient and outpatient counseling, and why healing often begins with self-acceptance. Eric also discusses his books, including The Martial Art of Recovery and Buried Alive, revealing how personal experiences and family stories continue to shape his work. If you’ve ever faced loss, adversity, addiction, or the challenge of rebuilding after setbacks, I believe you will find both practical insights and encouragement in Eric’s story.
Highlights:
08:10 – Eric shares lessons learned from his FBI internship experience.
18:43 – A friend’s crisis leads Eric and his wife to move to New Zealand.
23:38 – Martial arts becomes a foundation for recovery and mental wellness.
37:05 – Eric reflects on grief, loss, and the importance of support.
43:12 – Self-acceptance plays a critical role in addiction recovery.
50:26 – Couples learn to face problems together instead of against each other.
About the Guest:
Eric Fisher, a Canadian transplant, is a counselling therapist who resides in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Originally from Tennessee, he has over 15 years of experience working outpatient and inpatient treatment settings in the US and Canada. He has two books published at this time: The Martial Art of Recovery: Self-Mastery Practices to Subdue Addiction and Achieve Mental Wellness, and Buried Alive: Four Ways to Free Yourself from the Dirt.
Eric is a master practitioner of Accelerated Resolution Therapy (ART) and is also trained in EyeMovement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), both of which are evidence-based treatments for trauma. Eric’s private practice, Recovery Arts Counselling, serves individuals, couples, and families both locally and remotely. In the past, Eric has supervised masters-level graduate students and counsellors early in their careers. He has won multiple awards for his screenwriting: The Departure – official finalist in biographical/historical genre – 2014 Beverly Hills Screenplay Contest. Only 16 Miles – Finalist – 2014 Horror Screenplay Contest. Universal Escapade (Finalist – Top 25) – WeScreenplay International Screenplay Competition. Hipster Z (co-written) – best feature screenplay – 2017 Action On Film International Film Festival. Hipster Z – Best horror/comedy Screenplay – 2017 International Horror Hotel Film Fest.
Additionally, Eric has a black belt in two martial arts styles: American Kenpo and Wadō-ryū. One interesting thing about Eric is that he had the opportunity to be an intern with the FBI — twice. Eric enjoys hiking and riding his bike outdoors, music concerts, tasting new food dishes to keep his taste buds guessing, travelling near and far, and meeting people.
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Ways to connect with Eric:
Website: https://www.recoveryartscounselling.com
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/ericfisherauthor
Instagram – @recoveryartscounselling – https://www.instagram.com/recoveryartscounselling/
@ericfisherwriter – https://www.instagram.com/ericfisherwriter
Linkedin – Eric Fisher – www.linkedin.com/in/eric-m-fisher-5b83724a
Facebook – Recovery Arts Counselling – https://www.facebook.com/RecoveryArtsCounselling
About the Host:
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.
Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.
https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/
https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/
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Transcription Notes:
Michael Hingson 00:03
One of the biggest things holding you back isn’t what’s in front of you, but rather what you believe. Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I’m your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what’s possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let’s get started. Well, hello there, everyone. I am your host Michael Hinkson, and you have found the Unstoppable Mindset Podcast. Today, we get to chat with Eric Fisher, who is a rather interesting person. I believe he’s a counseling therapist, he’s a transplant, he now lives in Calgary, but he used to live in Tennessee, very similar. I’m sure we’ll have to find out more about that, but I’m really glad that that you’re here with us. Eric, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset.
Eric Fisher 01:29
Yes, thank you for having me on, Michael. I appreciate it. Glad to be here.
Michael Hingson 01:32
Well, I’m going to have to ask, how did you get from Tennessee to Calgary, besides by Claire? But you know, but
Speaker 1 01:41
it’s a bit to make a long story short. The wife, you know, yeah, she’s from Calgary originally, so I surrendered up here.
Michael Hingson 01:52
Yeah, well, is there a backstory that you want to tell?
Speaker 1 01:57
You know, the quick version would be from Mississippi to New Zealand to Calgary, and that was over a span of, you know, two and a half years, and then finally to Calgary. After those other two places, was she
Michael Hingson 02:10
with you during all of those? Mississippi, New Zealand, and then Calgary.
Speaker 1 02:14
She was for the long haul. Yeah, yeah, she’s experienced humidity and the dryness, all the extremes.
Michael Hingson 02:24
When we moved to New Jersey in 1996 my wife didn’t really want to go. She was a California native, but it was where the job had to take me, and it was either that or go find a new job, and I really didn’t want to undertake a job search, because that’s pretty traumatic. So, especially if you happen to be blind, because people think blind people really can’t do stuff, and that’s why the unemployment rate among employable blind people is in the 70% range. So the bottom line is that we moved to New Jersey, we were there for six years, and then of course the World Trade Center happened, which is kind of a dramatic way to allow us to get back to California, but it worked, so here we are.
Speaker 1 03:05
Yeah, that is a lot of different places, and it’s unfortunate with that percentage, right?
Michael Hingson 03:10
Yeah, well, and she passed. She was in a wheelchair her whole life, and she passed in November of 2022 We were married 40 years, and I’m sure she’s monitoring me from somewhere, so I work on continuing to be a good kid, because if I’m not, I’m going to hear about it somehow,
Speaker 1 03:27
one way or another. There’s, there’s still some surveillance happening. There
Michael Hingson 03:31
is, I am absolutely sure of it. Well, tell us kind of about the early era growing up, and all that.
Speaker 1 03:37
Grew up in Arkansas, yeah, Newport, Arkansas, you know, grew up behind a Walmart in a small subdivision, and moved to Tennessee at an early age. I was around five years old, going over, going on six at the time, I believe, and so I understand what it means to kind of get uprooted from somewhere and place somewhere else, and my dad was in the medical profession, so that’s the reason that we moved, and so that’s a little bit about that. My mom’s family is from Kansas City, so I really did enjoy going up to the city there and being with my mom’s family during holiday seasons. That was really my only exposure to, like, a city, like an urban population, more than what I experienced anywhere else. So, and yeah, got one brother, played with him a lot, and a lot of it was being creative outside, getting outside and doing stuff, and having fun outside, you know, little bit different from a lot of kids today, perhaps.
Michael Hingson 04:44
Yeah, well, it’s also a lot scarier, I think, today, even though there’s a lot of value in being outside. There are just so many crazy things going on. It’s got to be scarier for kids, and certainly even more scary for parents, and they tend. To want to really monitor their, their children a lot more, and that’s got us pluses, minuses, but it still has got to be really scary to let them just go outside.
Speaker 1 05:09
Yeah, just, you know, looking at what’s on the news and the possibilities of what could happen.
Michael Hingson 05:16
Yeah, so where did you, or did you go to college? I assume you went to college.
Speaker 1 05:22
I did. Yeah, I went to a small private Christian university in Tennessee called Freed Hardiman, and you know it was interesting because there’s this whole thing about townies versus us being called freedies because of Freed Hardman. The course, the joke is, you know, free hardly because of the expense of going to the institution. Yeah.
Michael Hingson 05:48
Well, with your experience and your observation in life, what do you think about going to a small college as opposed to a larger college?
Speaker 1 05:55
I really enjoyed it, being from a rural area. I mean, it was a good transition for me, and just getting to know people I feel like might have been easier in a more rural setting, as opposed to urban.
Michael Hingson 06:10
I went to University of California, Irvine, way back, starting in 1968 and when we started at UCI, there were like 25 2600 students, and I think when I graduated with my bachelor’s, it was like a little over 3000 students, but I loved the fact that it was a smaller college. I think it was for me a lot better, and I, I really like the smaller college environment, and I understand why colleges have advantages when they’re bigger, but by the same token, for students, if you want to really stand out, it’s kind of harder to do with a big college. Well, and now University of California, Irvine, where I went to school, has 32,000 undergrads in it,
Speaker 1 06:52
32,000 as opposed to the around, that’s a huge jump from like 25 2600 yeah,
Michael Hingson 07:00
yeah, and so it’s, it’s a huge place. I was there last a year and a half ago. I was invited to join. I couldn’t do it as an as a student because the chapter was formed just as I was leaving, but Phi Beta Kappa, and they heard about me along the way, and I was invited to join as an alumni member back in 2024 So that’s the last time I’ve been to UC Irvine. What a huge place!
Speaker 1 07:29
Wow, yeah. Of course, UC
Michael Hingson 07:30
Irvine, UCI really stands for Under Construction Indefinitely, so you know
Speaker 1 07:38
they make that, they made that kind of humorous remark up here, with like winter and construction, that’s the two seasons of Calgary. Yes, I totally get that.
Michael Hingson 07:47
My brother-in-law lives in Sun Valley, Idaho, in Ketchum, and has been a skier for most of his life, and in the summer he’s a master cabinet maker. Now he’s a general contractor, but he’s thinking about retiring, but in the winter everything goes by the wayside for skiing,
Speaker 1 08:10
everyone’s out on the slopes, you know. Well, and what he did
Michael Hingson 08:12
to even make it more fun is he got his professional ski guide status in Europe and became a professional ski guide, taking people to do off-piece skiing in the French Alps, which is,
Speaker 1 08:25
that’s really nice, awesome.
Michael Hingson 08:28
I love to, I love to say that I’m not gonna go skiing, because I know those trees are out to try to get me.
Speaker 1 08:35
They start to grow their branches, you know? They just spring
Michael Hingson 08:38
out at you when you’re not looking.
Speaker 1 08:40
Yes, I just..
Michael Hingson 08:42
I’ve never skied. I don’t have anything against it. It’s just not one of those things that I’ve done, but he enjoys it, and I’m sure it’s a lot of fun to do.
Speaker 1 08:51
Yeah, I can appreciate people that do.
Michael Hingson 08:53
Yeah. Well, what did you do after college? Well, you got your undergrad, then you went on.
Speaker 1 08:58
Yeah, so after my undergrad, I stayed at the university, and you know, I had a bachelor’s in psych, and I was like, well, what do I do with this degree? And so I decided to move forward, since I didn’t see too much availability, and did a master’s in clinical mental health counseling, and during that time of my master’s, I was able to intern with the FBI, which was a great opportunity.
Michael Hingson 09:25
What caused you to do that?
Speaker 1 09:28
I found, I mean, part of it was just a lot of curiosity, and of course, watching a lot of media and the work that they do. Yet I also found the possibility of implementing the psychology from a law enforcement angle on a federal level with this, so I did interning in my bachelor’s FBI, that was really nice at a local office, and then later on in my master’s at the FBI headquarters in DC, and just really interested in just the field and this the different. Psychological opportunities,
Michael Hingson 10:02
you didn’t stick with it, though. Or
Speaker 1 10:05
I did the internships, I did the agent exam, and failed. Oh boy, just kind of had my time with it, and then moved on. It was a great experience.
Michael Hingson 10:16
What you learned from it, the
Speaker 1 10:19
importance of teamwork, the importance of community, the importance of intention to detail, and I can’t say how I came to those, because then I have to bring up certain things that I can’t talk about, but yeah, just the importance of being able to work with other people from other walks of life, and just seeing everyone’s different perspectives is something that I learned, coming from, you know, small town, quite homogeneous, small university, and then being able to meet people from different parts of the country, even different territories, like Wall, it was, it was amazing to branch out and just have that life experience,
Michael Hingson 11:06
get a lot of different experiences, and you saw how people in other parts of the world live, which obviously has to be an interesting perspective.
Speaker 1 11:18
Yes, yes, it was really interesting, and just seeing how they think and their outlook on the world, and I had to take a polygraph examination for both internships, so the importance of honesty, and not that I didn’t think honesty was important before, but definitely when you’re under the microscope of being asked yes or no questions, it’s an interesting experience.
Michael Hingson 11:40
Yeah, well, I guess you must have passed the lie detector test. They didn’t throw you away or put you in jail.
Speaker 1 11:48
That’s right. Neither of those happened. I did have one question asked of me that was a little bit ambiguous. It was coming up that I deceived. It’s something that happened earlier in the day, and then they asked me about it, and then I said something that was not the truth, and then I explained the reasoning as to why. And then the agent was like, okay, thanks for letting me know, it’s all good. It’s like, okay, that’s good.
Michael Hingson 12:21
Yeah, they have to be pretty skilled interrogators to really be able to do that, and, and ask questions, and I, and I know no matter what’s going on with the lie detector technology, they’re observing you as well, so they’re looking for things, and I suppose it’s possible to fool the lie detector technology, but I know that it continues to get better too.
Speaker 1 12:45
Yeah, and wondering if that’s because, like, people are sociopaths, or they don’t have any – they actually believe what they’re saying. Yeah, yeah,
Michael Hingson 12:54
I’ve never taken lie detector tests, but I know that for me, I’m not a good fibber, so I’ve got to tell the truth, and like I said, my wife’s watching anyway, so I gotta always be a good kid.
Speaker 1 13:06
If you were taking a lie detector test knuckle and you said something, you might get an invisible slap, like, oh,
Michael Hingson 13:12
exactly,
Speaker 2 13:13
okay, I get it, or
Michael Hingson 13:16
a poke or something. Yeah, yeah, no. So, better, better to just be honest about it, but yeah, I understand what you’re saying, but it is, it is fascinating. I’d love to experience taking a test sometime, but because I only understand all about it intellectually, having never seen it on television or anything like that, but by the same token, I’m glad that the technology exists, and I’m glad that the people do what they do, and I, I too very much believe in law enforcement. I believe in the value of the FBI and police, and so on. I took a couple of police-oriented courses when I was at UC Irvine. We had an engineering professor who was a reserve deputy sheriff, so we, we got to do ride-alongs, and even went down and visited the Orange County Jail once, and you know, because he, he said it all, so it’s kind of fun to be able to do it, and I learned a lot and value that.
Speaker 1 14:19
That’s awesome. I’m glad you had that experience.
Michael Hingson 14:21
Yeah, I think it’s kind of cool to be able to have had that. So, you got a master’s degree? Did you get a PhD?
Speaker 1 14:29
No, you know, I was encouraged to do so, to pilot higher and deeper, as the PhD acronym goes. Yeah, and I just, I decided to not go that route.
Michael Hingson 14:40
So, what did you do after you got your master’s?
Speaker 1 14:43
After the master’s, I started to do well. I was doing my practicum during the master’s, yet after the master’s, I started to work primarily where I did my practicum in Mississippi and started actually doing counseling work. So I was doing what’s called a mobile therapist. For this organization, where I would go to people’s houses and speak with people, do counseling work, which was pretty cool. I got to be out in the community, meet a lot of folks, made confidentiality sometimes a little bit of a challenge, small town. And then two days a week I was in the office, doing whoever came in through the clinic, so I was in the, I was in the work, I was in the grind, just doing what I had been trained to do. Definitely learning on the job, though, for sure.
Michael Hingson 15:27
Where in Mississippi,
Speaker 1 15:29
Corinth, Mississippi, which is like right at the state line. Yeah, they actually have a road called State Line Road, where houses on one side, North or Tennessee houses on the other side have Mississippi license plates.
Michael Hingson 15:45
That’s pretty funny. In New Jersey, when we lived there, there were a number of streets in towns that had a very interesting environment, and that is that every town had its own tax base. There wasn’t a statewide thing for property taxes and everything else, or for a lot of taxes, so every town had its own, and you could be on a street where someone may pay 1213, $14,000 a year in taxes, and if you lived on the other side of the street, you were in a different town, and your taxes were like 4800 $5,000
Speaker 1 16:24
Whoa, no,
Michael Hingson 16:26
it’s crazy.
Speaker 1 16:27
That is a sheer difference.
Michael Hingson 16:30
It is a huge difference, and the other thing that that we experienced is that a lot of the the work is done by lawyers when you’re closing a house, for example. Back there, they didn’t really have escrow, was all done through attorneys, and so on. And some of those people were involved in the tax stuff as well. It’s kind of a very fascinating and interesting place to be, certainly different than what we experienced in California.
Speaker 1 16:57
Yes, that sounds like a very, very different type of experience, for sure. Wow, wow. Okay,
Michael Hingson 17:04
but you know things happen. Well, so you, you started doing counseling and therapy, and as you said, and I can appreciate how it must have been difficult sometimes from a confidentiality standpoint, because it is a small town and people overhear or talk about, and that’s not always a good thing.
Speaker 1 17:24
Yeah, you know, things like that come up. You know, you hear the whispers, and one time I was actually trying to find a place in a lower-income part of town, and I was doing circles in the neighborhood, and a police cruiser started to follow me, and so I stopped my car, got out with my credentials, towed the towed the police officer who I worked for, and then he was just kind of like, oh, okay, carry on. So, did
Michael Hingson 17:46
you ask him for directions?
Speaker 1 17:49
You know what, I did not know, like that would have made sense. I’m trying to look at find this house, never. Oh, over there, sir? Okay, but no, I did not.
Michael Hingson 18:05
So, how long were you in Mississippi? Then
Speaker 1 18:09
I was in Mississippi from around 2009 to 2013 I want to say, we left. We left for New Zealand for the whole year 2013 so no, 2012 sorry, the end of 2012 so about three and a half, three or so years. Okay, yeah. How did you
Michael Hingson 18:33
meet your wife in all this
Speaker 1 18:34
online? Yeah, back when it was clandestine, like you met somebody online, are they an ax murderer? Can you trust them? Do you need to get references, which she did. Yeah, yeah. And we checked you out, huh? She checked me out for sure. She even called people that I gave references for. And then we courted for two and a half years. And then after that, tied the knot in Tennessee, moved to Mississippi. Well, she moved to Mississippi, where I was already living, and yeah, we were there until we went to New Zealand about 10 months later.
Michael Hingson 19:06
So she was living in Tennessee at the time,
Speaker 1 19:09
she was up here in Calgary, or she was in Calgary.
Michael Hingson 19:12
Okay,
Speaker 1 19:12
we, we got married in Tennessee,
Michael Hingson 19:14
okay. Well, that’s that’s cool though. What, what prompted the trip and moving to New Zealand for a year, I’ve been there, and I actually spent three weeks there, and very much enjoy it.
Speaker 1 19:28
Whereabouts? Well, I wanted to ask, all over New
Michael Hingson 19:30
Zealand, I mean, I was there with the Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind. They asked me to come and speak in 2003 talk about September 11, and so on, and they were trying to raise funds, so we helped them raise something like over $375,000 in a three week period, and literally I had 21 speaking events in 13 days all over both islands.
Speaker 1 19:55
Wow, that’s that’s a, that’s a lot of speaking events, and a certain amount of days. Days you’ve been, you probably been close more than I’ve been, more places than I’ve been. So, what, what prompted the move was a friend of mine I had made previously being there. He reached out to me through just electronic media. He was having a spiritual emergency, and he asked me, he asked me to come to come help him, and so I just said, "Sure, let’s do it. My wife and I left the rental unit, the rental house where we were staying, and left furniture behind, two cars behind, appliances, and we just, just left him, or there for 13 months, didn’t look, didn’t look back.
Michael Hingson 20:45
Did you spend any time in Dunedin while you were there?
Speaker 1 20:49
We didn’t spend any time in Dunedin. We weren’t only there for like a week when we did some vacation time.
Michael Hingson 20:57
Yeah, I, they gave me literally a half, three quarters of a day off from speaking. In fact, they said you can play in Dunedin, and so we were there, and it was one, I guess, was a one full day. They had some unique toys to play with in New Zealand. They had a thing called a bungee rocket. Have you ever heard of that?
Speaker 1 21:22
A bungee rocket. No. So,
Michael Hingson 21:24
you know what bungee cords are, and you stretch them out and all that. Well, the bungee rocket, you attach bungee cords to this platform, this cage, but the bungee cords are attached to a device way up high, and then they’re also attached to this plat, this cage, then they pull the cage down, and they fasten it, so the bungee cords are very stretched, and then people get in, and they sit down, and they fasten seat belts, and then when everybody’s all secure, they loose the platform, and the bungee cords pull this thing up like a rocket.
Speaker 1 22:01
Whoa, yeah. I wasn’t about to do that. I was with someone who
Michael Hingson 22:05
did, and he came off apparently as white as a sheet. He said, "I’m never gonna do that.
Speaker 1 22:10
It was a one and done experience for him. It was
Michael Hingson 22:16
for me. It was, "I’m not gonna do that, brother. And I had my guide dog, and somebody would have held the dog, but I wouldn’t do that. I have other memories, which are more fun, I think, and probably for me more pleasurable.
Speaker 1 22:31
Yeah, one of the things we did down on the South Island was some knife making, and it was really.. it was something I surprised my family with. They didn’t know we were doing that day, and this guy was hilarious. I mean, something straight out of a documentary about New Zealand, as far as, like, locals, you would see he had a witty sense of humor, and he would, he would like, finish off the knives for us after we did the preliminary steps, just to make them look nice. Yeah, that was one of my favorite memories down there.
Michael Hingson 23:00
Wow, yeah, I’ve, I’ve got a lot of memories, even though it was back in 2003 so 22 years, 22 and a half years, but I love the memories, and love being down there was a wonderful place,
Speaker 1 23:13
awesome, so that was pretty cool. Well, so you, you came back, and, and you eventually ended up in, in Calgary, which is, which is great. So, what do you do now? Got a few hands in a few honey jars. I have a private practice for the counseling. I work for a retreat center company out of a place called Brad Creek, called Vita Wellness. I work for a nonprofit up in a place called Erdrie as a consultant. I work for a clinic remotely that’s in the city as an associate. Am I forgetting anything? I think that’s the main ones right now. Also, work doing like couples therapy for a relationship-based app. Yeah, so that’s a lot of people that are in the States, there. So, it’s yeah, few things to keep me busy.
Speaker 3 24:13
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Michael Hingson 24:47
they do well. You also write
Speaker 1 24:50
that as well. Yeah,
Michael Hingson 24:52
you’ve written a couple of books, and I guess you’ve also done some screenwriting and all that, and love to hear more about all that. Tell. You bought your books.
Speaker 1 25:01
Yeah, the first book that I published, self-published, and that was two years ago now. That was called, that is called The Martial Art of Recovery: Self Mastery Practices to Subdue Addiction and Achieve Mental Wellness. Say three times real fast. So, yeah, that book is all about the intersection of martial arts concepts with addiction and mental health treatment, so that has personal experiences, and my times in the martial arts, and also I just bring in like holistic health techniques, and also I get some interviews, some of them are a little bit shorter than others, but at least some some chunks from people that I know in different disciplines, different fields, like an old martial arts teacher, a medicine family medicine doctor here in the Calgary area, people like that. So that was that was about a 14 month writing experience before it was published.
Michael Hingson 25:57
When was it published?
Speaker 1 26:00
Back in March of 2023
Michael Hingson 26:05
Okay, not your first book.
Speaker 1 26:07
Not that’s my first book. Yes,
Michael Hingson 26:09
yeah,
Speaker 2 26:10
yeah.
Michael Hingson 26:12
What do you, what do you think of being an author and the whole experience of writing?
Speaker 1 26:19
There was not. there was a lack of faith, for sure. I had a really difficult time, even acknowledging, "Hey, this is something I could do. Had a lot of self-doubt, and so even the process I found pretty daunting, pretty, like pretty challenging, for sure. And I do enjoy the process. It’s like a double helix, though. I, I enjoy it, yet it kind of puts the screws to me, as far as enjoyment, but also challenge, yet I do enjoy the experience and being able to get my voice out there, yet I listen to someone else talk about publishing, and the person said, you know what, when you publish it, now it’s that person’s turn to take it on and they can make it their own,
Michael Hingson 27:04
yeah.
Speaker 1 27:04
So I found that to be a really cool way to look at it. So yeah, and I enjoy it. It’s been, it’s been good, it’s been fun.
Michael Hingson 27:13
And then you wrote a second book,
Speaker 1 27:15
I did. Yeah, that one’s called Buried Alive: Four Ways to Free Yourself from the Dirt. It’s a lot more personal, I think, because it is about a true story that happened to my dad, and something that was quite harrowing for him, which, yes, as the book title suggests, is what happened, and part of the book is about the interviews I did with the three men involved with this very scary incident back in February of 2000 so 25 years now, and talks about their different perspectives on what happened that day when they were digging for Native American artifacts, arrowheads, and I bring in some self-help concepts that apply to what happened that day, and also just for anyone that’s looking to bring those into their own lives,
Michael Hingson 28:03
what happened?
Speaker 1 28:05
Yeah, so they were digging at what’s called an overhang, which is like a cliff face that shuts out small little, I don’t know if you would even call it a cave, but there was a place underneath the overhang that kind of came in anyway, when Native Americans would come to an area, they wouldn’t ever bring dirt out, they would always bring dirt in, and so there was so much dirt that was piled up over the years that my dad and the people that were digging with him, I was there six months to the day before this incident happened, we would, we would have to dig, they would dig to get to their arrowheads that were quite far down underneath the dirt,
Michael Hingson 28:46
yeah,
Speaker 1 28:47
yeah, yeah, and so this unfortunate day, my dad was in a hole, probably I don’t know, eight or nine feet, and a little dirt fell on him, and you know, he kind of joked with his friend Jason, who was further up this hall, and a few seconds later all that dirt just came in, just, just quickly, automatically. He was vanished without a trace, and then a big rock came down on that dirt. If it wasn’t for that third person that decided to come that very morning, they did not come before. His name’s Jerry. Then I’m sure that my dad would have died,
Michael Hingson 29:25
because
Speaker 1 29:25
there was no way that Jason, who also was stuck up to like his knee in dirt, could have got out in time to get the rock and then to unearth my dad. So,
Michael Hingson 29:39
yeah, a fascinating book. Now, you, you self-published that one as well.
Speaker 1 29:43
I did, didn’t wait around, just went ahead, and yeah.
Michael Hingson 29:49
Do you have other books in you?
Speaker 1 29:51
I have one done. I needed to get it edited, and editorial reviews, and get my book cover designer over in Italy to do her magic. She did on the last two books, so yeah, I do have one in the, in the oven.
Michael Hingson 30:05
Can you tell us a little about what it will be about, or what it’s called, or anything?
Speaker 1 30:08
Sure, the book right now is called I’m Listening, and it’s all about my experiences, my pitfalls, my learnings as a therapist, and so it’s a bit of a memoir of my professional work in the field, and some, some personal experiences.
Michael Hingson 30:25
I think one of the most powerful things about books, especially when you’re, when you’re dealing with more nonfiction, because fiction books usually have stories with them, but a lot of nonfiction books don’t really provide enough, I think, of a personal inroad to the individual who wrote the book. One of my big beliefs, one of my pet peeves, is I think textbooks are so boring, like physics. My master’s degree is in physics, and I maintain that the big problem is that none of the physics professors who are writing all these books ever put anything in about their own personal experiences to really get people excited because of of their their stories and what they can teach through their stories. It’s just all math and equations and and words, just about the physics, but never the other part. I think that textbooks would be better if they put some stories in them,
Speaker 1 31:22
I think. So, too, I think people’s eyes wouldn’t come out of their sockets, and they wouldn’t, you know, be comatose. You know, they can actually keep up, and they can be engaged and involved with the material. Yeah,
Michael Hingson 31:35
I had a colleague when we were at UC Irvine. We were in the same physics class together, and he had this one book, and he noticed that there didn’t seem to really be any typos or whatever in it, and he meticulously, through the whole quarter, went through that whole book, and I think he finally found one misspelled word, and he was so proud of both that there were there were no others other than the one, but that he found one misspelled word we do with our lives.
Speaker 1 32:07
What people do sometimes for kicks. Well, I’m glad. I wonder where that word was. Like, did he go through the whole book, and it’s like on the last page, or you know, where is that at? It was
Michael Hingson 32:22
near the end, but it wasn’t on the last page, but it was.. it was.. it took him a long time to find it.
Speaker 1 32:29
I wanted to do that with my first book. I could have easily done a book about the intersection of martial arts themes with, you know, mental wellness, but I mean, why not? I mean, I had that experience for over four years in the martial arts. Why not do that?
Michael Hingson 32:48
So, tell me about that. You’ve mentioned martial arts several times, so obviously you’ve had some involvement with martial arts.
Speaker 1 32:54
I have. Yeah, so when I was a preteen, I got a black belt in what’s called a Water Rule Karate, so it’s like W A D O R Y U, and when I was a teenager, like 16 to 18, I was doing what’s called American Campo, and that did have a little bit of Jiu Jitsu thrown into the mix,
Michael Hingson 33:16
so what prompted the interest in doing that
Speaker 1 33:20
first was my dad, you know, part of my family was interested, so the guy, why not? And I don’t know at that time whether I was experiencing bullying. Unfortunately, I experienced bullying like going to church before church started, which was unfortunate, say. So I mean, I think it was just a really good experience for me, looking back for balance and discipline in that way, and getting to meet people in the community. I can’t, I can’t initially remember what prompted that. My dad was interested, my brother was too, so was I. And then when I was 16, I was like, let’s pick it up, let’s do something different, let’s try something new, and so we were able to go to this really small outfit, which was called the Snake Pit at the time, very different from the more like larger dojo in the community from my early years.
Michael Hingson 34:14
What has being involved with the martial arts done to help you or to you or for you in dealing with mental wellness and the whole issue of what you do today. How is martial arts affecting all of that?
Speaker 1 34:35
Yeah, it’s a really good question. Martial arts showed me the importance of balance when we’re doing sparring, when we’re doing more, so when we’re doing training on techniques, I can’t be too far away when I’m sparring someone, because then it’s not natural, it’s not organic, nor, but I can be so close that I might hit them, so there needs to be some type of balance and self control, and that’s. Something else, as well as being out of some self control. Yeah,
Michael Hingson 35:05
well, martial arts is, I understand, it seems to me, as much about your mental being as learning physical techniques, because there is a whole lot that really comes down to how you approach it mentally. Am I correct?
Speaker 1 35:24
Yeah, there’s a big piece when it comes to stamina. When I was doing sparring, I actually had to find a place between being so passive, but also not being super aggressive. Like, how do I get that mental, emotional stamina to do this powering, you know, in a way that was quite balanced. Yes, but there is a lot when it comes to being in touch with my body, being in touch with where my mind is, with focus, with being not beating myself up, not really being perfect, or trying to achieve perfection. Yet, there’s a certain vulnerability that comes with that in the mind, and also when it comes to the body,
Michael Hingson 36:06
how so
Speaker 1 36:10
well, there’s vulnerability just simply with doing different techniques, because if you don’t, if you don’t like being touched, then it’s going to be really difficult, because there’s often a lot of touch happening, and and when it comes to the mind, it’s there’s vulnerability with putting myself out there and being seen by others, because we’re often watching one another with training, and so there is this piece around vulnerability around, hey, you know what, whatever they think, okay, they can think I’m still working on this technique,
Michael Hingson 36:40
mm and it, and it does, as you grow mentally with, with martial arts, I’m sure that it also helps in terms of your resilience.
Speaker 1 36:55
Resilience plays a key factor, indeed, because you know, when it comes to even with sparring, you know, getting hit, I can’t just kind of, oh, I got hit and I want to go back and I want to go in the corner. Well, no, I’ve got to keep going. Yeah, gotta keep moving, gotta keep walking and deflecting, and you know, going with the punches. And I, there was one experience with a young man, at least two years younger than me, he was a silver glove boxer, like a champion silver glove, and there had to be some resilience for me there, because I was getting clobbered, I was getting, I was getting hit over and over, because he was using a boxing type of, you know, boxing moves I wasn’t used to defending against, and he was quick, and there comes a certain level of humility when it comes to being in the martial arts as well, because there’s going to be experiences like that.
Michael Hingson 37:49
Well, did you eventually get to the point where you could defend yourself against him?
Speaker 1 37:55
He wasn’t there for too long. Yeah, the more yet, the more that I was able to work with him, the more I was able to, you know, understand a little bit more where he was coming from with the moves,
Michael Hingson 38:05
right. Well, in your life and all the things that you’ve done, have you experienced grief in any way? And kind of, what was that?
Speaker 1 38:14
Yeah, there was a moment, there wasn’t an issue when it came to a disenfranchised loss. My wife had a silent miscarriage, and so that was pretty brutal. How that turned out for her, and vicariously for me, and seeing her go through that really difficult, emotionally painful situation was hard. And so I mean, I’ve sure I’ve lost all but one grandparent at this point, and I did lose some child, like one childhood friend, when I was 16 to a car accident that was pretty brutal. Yet this loss was, yeah, was really difficult, because it’s something that a lot of people don’t understand, they don’t want to talk about, they don’t know what to say, or it’s really difficult just to listen, and that was hard.
Michael Hingson 39:09
Yeah, but at the same time, as you well know, from all that you’ve experienced, God doesn’t give us things that we can’t handle, and we have to learn to move forward
Speaker 1 39:22
with resilience, with God’s help.
Michael Hingson 39:24
Yeah,
Speaker 1 39:24
yeah, with prayer, perseverance. Yeah,
Michael Hingson 39:27
I lost my father, actually, on November 1 of 1984 and my mother in May of 1987 and then my brother actually developed breast cancer in 2011 and they, they dealt with it, and he went into remission, but it came back, and he didn’t take care of himself very well, as I understand it, because he lived in Florida, and we were in California, but anyway, it came back, and it metastasized, and so we lost him in 2015 so at the same time. Yeah, there were relatives on my wife’s side that we lost a couple very unexpectedly, and yeah, you do learn to deal with grief, but you learn that you got to go forward, and so when Karen passed in 2022 at least it wasn’t totally all of a sudden, so I had some time to prepare, but you know, I still miss her, and I wouldn’t want it any other way.
Speaker 1 40:23
Yeah, for sure. I, and I mean, losing your parents around two and a half or so years apart, and with your brother, and then with your wife, that’s a lot. That’s a lot. Yet I hear that even though there was some preparation time for you, it can still be, it can still be difficult, it can still hit the nail, you know. I was doing some grief work, a grief course, and they showed us this poem called Whose Whose Grief Is Worse, basically. And there were these two experiences of someone that lost someone suddenly and someone that knew, and at the end of the poem. Basically, it’s both are painful. There is no worse grief.
Michael Hingson 41:05
There’s no, there’s no wrong or right answer to all of that. It’s, it’s different, but we all can learn to deal with it. I know when the events of September 11 happened, for me, ironically, the greatest blessing I had was that the media got my story and we started getting a lot of requests for interviews and my wife and I decided we would accept them and I got asked so many questions by so many different reporters, some dumb questions were absolutely stupid, idiotic questions, but some that were very insightful, and so I probably was able to move on from that day much more because of all of the questions and getting used to dealing with those questions than anything else that could have come along. It
Speaker 1 41:58
was a choice, and you probably appreciated those reporters that took the time to ask those carefully planned questions.
Michael Hingson 42:06
I’ve had some people, no matter how many times the story gets repeated, who still say, "What were you doing in the World Trade Center, anyway? And I’m sitting there going, "Have you read Thunderdog? Have you read any of the stories in the press? What do you mean, what was I doing in the World Trade Center?
Speaker 1 42:23
It’s not like, you know, it’s out there, you know, it’s been published, you can read it. Yeah,
Michael Hingson 42:30
I wasn’t a spy for the terrorists, I can tell you that.
Speaker 1 42:36
I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t have thought that for a second,
Michael Hingson 42:41
but but, but you know, things happen, and you never know where you’re going to be, you never know what might come up, and it’s just one of those things that we, we all really need to deal with in one way or another, and that’s just what’s so important.
Speaker 1 42:56
Absolutely, you know, one of the quotes I heard from my training was, and I take it with me, and I, I definitely relate to it personally. Is joy shared is joy doubled, and grief shared is grief halved, and the stuff we’re doing, even today, and even those listening that might have been through grief, is as long as we’re able to talk about it, and just talk about something that does not make any sense whatsoever to us, that’s part of the healing process.
Michael Hingson 43:23
Yeah, it’s important to talk about it. It’s important to share, and I understand you want to be careful. You don’t want to just talk necessarily about it with anyone, but you do need to find people that you can share with and that you can talk to about
Speaker 1 43:39
it. Totally, yeah, the grocery store clerk, you know, that I’m getting my bread and butter from, maybe they’re not ready for that, that particular topic,
Michael Hingson 43:48
yeah,
Speaker 1 43:48
yeah,
Michael Hingson 43:50
and and the thing that we all need to do is to really, I think, do a lot more to listen to our inner voice, it’ll tell us what we need to do if we listen,
Speaker 1 43:58
yes, I believe that for sure, I’ve seen, I’ve seen that. Yeah,
Michael Hingson 44:03
so you’ve dealt with all the, this, the psychological work that you do. You dealt with addiction, and so on. How does martial arts play into that? What have you learned from martial arts that helps you in dealing with recovery from addiction?
Speaker 1 44:16
Oh, well, where to start. I think that one piece to really focus on is this concept of self love, and I don’t mean self love like I’m better than other people out there, but just being okay with where I’m at for myself, but still pushing myself to learn new things, so some acceptance about where I’m at when it comes to martial arts, that has to be there. I might not be doing the technique perfectly, and I, there was times where I could really easily beat myself up mentally, like, "Oh, why can’t I get this? Yet it’s just trying to take a step back and see that I’m worthy enough to make the. Approach to make these changes when it comes to addiction. I’m worthy enough to seek out help. These feelings I have that they’re okay to feel, and I don’t have to beat myself up for this.
Michael Hingson 45:11
Yeah, because addiction is is a disease, and I think anyone who condemns somebody just because, for example, they use drugs, and, well, they shouldn’t do that. They’re dumb for doing it. They really miss assess what’s going on.
Speaker 1 45:28
People that have that mindset that it’s more of a mere choice, they don’t understand that if you put, you know, a shot of alcohol in front of someone and you tell them not to drink it, and you put a gun on them, they’re going to be wondering, maybe he’ll slip his hand off the trigger, you know, that kind of thinking, that’s that’s the disease aspect. And I recommend anybody that wants to know more about addiction being a disease, check out Kevin McCauley’s documentary, Pleasure Unwoven. It’s a really good documentary that shows the different aspects of the disease. Yeah,
Michael Hingson 46:08
I have never taken drugs in that way, and don’t want to, but again, that’s my choice, and I’ve learned enough from other people that I know that if, if I’m having a problem, taking drugs isn’t going to help me solve the problem, and it isn’t going to even really help me hide from it, but I guess that’s just my makeup that I know that I have to face whatever comes along head on.
Speaker 1 46:33
Yes, the resilience piece,
Michael Hingson 46:36
the resilience piece, and I’ve wanted to do that.
Speaker 1 46:39
Awesome, I can see with everything you’ve been through, Michael, you’ve definitely lent in, you’ve leaned in, you’ve pushed forward.
Michael Hingson 46:47
Well, I think that part of the issue is as a, as a blind person who’s faced a lot of challenges and seen things, what I choose to do whenever anything happens to me is I want to learn from it, so I don’t want to ignore it, even if it’s something that’s totally not related to me in any way. I want to learn from it, if I’m involved, because I think that’s the only way I’m going to be able to make sure that I deal with anything like that, any kind of surprise. The next time I talk about a lot when I am talking to people about blindness, about surprises, and I talk about the fact that I could be crossing a street, I could get to the corner and listen to the traffic, and when I hear the traffic going the way I want to go, then I’ll cross the street. So I start crossing a street, and all of a sudden I hear a car from behind me, and it’s not going the way I want to go, suddenly it’s, it’s turning, or there’s somebody that is is across the street from me, not the way I’m going, and I start to cross the street when it’s supposed to be my turn, and they decide they’re going to go, and so I am, I’ve learned to constantly be alert, but at the same time, what I have to do is figure out very quickly, do I want to go forward or do I want to go backwards to have the best chance of getting away from this,
Speaker 1 48:11
which way do I move in my direction with my spatial awareness with your spatial awareness, and that, and that brings me to another, I think, actually, another piece with martial arts and how it intersects is treating the addiction like an opponent that may be sauntering around that corner at any moment in time, and being able to see that I need to be on the alert, I need to know more than one direction, as you mentioned a moment ago, more than one direction that I could go, rather than just the free, the ability to have choice. Yeah,
Michael Hingson 48:51
can addiction truly be cured? Not the reason I asked the question is I know so often I hear when I hear people talking about alcoholism, you can’t really cure alcoholism, and maybe that’s true. I don’t know,
Speaker 1 49:10
you know, it depends on how you ask, from a medical standpoint, from a disease standpoint, since we see it as a chronic progressive primary condition, which means nothing necessarily causes it every time. The answer would be no, because of its progression. However, can it can addiction, whether it’s alcoholism, whatever, be stunted as far as its progression? Absolutely. Can be, can people live fulfilling lives? Absolutely. Can there be reversal of certain symptoms and signs. Yes, however, just I think that to say, you know, one day someone’s gonna wake up and they no longer have cravings or the warning signs or the the neurobiology. Logical strings, it’s tough to say that’s a no.
Michael Hingson 50:04
Yeah, thanks. That’s the makeup of the individual that brings that about. I, I have.. I take an occasional drink. In fact, Karen and I used to have a drink on Friday night, one drink, and I kind of honor her by having a bourbon and seven every Friday night when I make, when I cook dinner, but one, because I’ve never been a great fan of the taste of alcohol, but I understand there are a lot of people who really like the taste of it, and that has led them into pretty dark places, which is unfortunate.
Speaker 1 50:36
Yeah, still
Michael Hingson 50:37
happens.
Speaker 1 50:38
It does still happen, for sure. And I appreciate you liking bourbon. We make a bourbon walnut ice cream, and I don’t ever drink the bourbon by itself. It’s been in the cupboard for months now. And anyway,
Michael Hingson 50:55
well, my bourbon and seven is a whole lot more seven up than bourbon.
Speaker 1 50:59
Totally right, and good for you for having that ritual, you know, for you and for
Michael Hingson 51:06
her. That’s kind of neat to be able to do that, but I’ve just never felt that I need to, and I’m, and I’m glad. So it’s continuing to share that. Well, you do a lot of couples therapy. How does all that go, and what kind of challenges does that make for you and for them?
Speaker 1 51:29
Well, I’ll give you this short story. We were eating at Denny’s with this man, and just a friend of a friend, and he said to us, he asked me about my work, and I told him, yeah, I’m working with, you know, a lot of addiction, and with couples, he’s like, I heard from another counselor, Eric, that if you really want to make it hard on yourself, you work in addiction, and you work with couples that always make it have a challenge, and, like, yeah, true. And so, when it comes to working with couples, it is challenging. There’s something about having two people to work with, there’s so many dynamics at play, different than perhaps being with just one person, you know, coming from two different histories, biographically different life upbringings, family upbringing, personalities. It can be really challenging. I do appreciate challenge. I’ve learned so much. I learned from each couple that I work with, and it’s a whole different beast.
Michael Hingson 52:29
Yeah, and, and it is. I like what you said, though. You learn from it, and that’s probably the most important thing that any of us can do with anything in any endeavor that we undertake is that we learn from it.
Speaker 1 52:44
If I can’t learn from something, what am I, what am I doing there? And if I’m not learning from something, how can that benefit other people that I’m trying to help support? So, yeah, I tried to get the couple to start to be, you know, them versus the concern, rather than you versus me. That’s a big goal of couples therapy.
Michael Hingson 53:08
That’s an interesting way to put it. That makes a lot of sense. I’ve never thought of it that way, but it’s them. It does have to be them, but them versus the concern. That, that’s interesting.
Speaker 1 53:18
Yeah, yeah. Then they start, they start looking at how can we collaborate rather than trying to annihilate each other.
Michael Hingson 53:26
Yeah,
Speaker 1 53:27
metaphorically speaking,
Michael Hingson 53:31
so you’ve talked about the work that you did when you were in Mississippi, when you worked in small towns, and so on, and you worked in probably some fairly substantive places as well. What do you find that’s different about outpatient versus inpatient work, and in terms of what you do and how you approach it?
Speaker 1 53:52
Well, I’ll just say that doing inpatient work is kind of like raising kids, so not.. I mean, I don’t have any experience, because I don’t, I don’t have kids, I got nieces and nephews yet. I know that feeling well. Yeah, there’s just something about being around someone more than just like that hour, hour and a half, seeing them like eight or nine hours a day, you get to know them pretty well, as opposed to, you know, once an hour every one or two, three weeks, that in that comes some benefits with the inpatient work. Yet also it can be really difficult when it comes to boundaries. They feel like you can do things that maybe you’re not able to do professionally with them, maybe like as far as like self-disclosure wise or things like that, and there’s just there’s just a thing around boundaries, and even with the inpatient work, you know, I’ll have one client come and say, ‘Hey, this other counselor said I could do this, and I would be like, ‘Okay, and then I found out later the counselor didn’t say that at all, so there’s that type. The drama got to deal with, with it, with the inpatient work,
Michael Hingson 55:04
but you don’t find that as much without patient, because you tend to be able to get closer to the individual, and that probably also develops a higher trust level.
Speaker 1 55:14
There is a higher trust level if you mean, like, doing outpatient work, or outpatient, but we have the outpatient, for sure, because I am solely with them, and they know that time is of the essence, whether it’s weekly or bi-weekly, whatever, and I’m being able to focus on them, for sure, yeah,
Michael Hingson 55:35
and it’s a lot harder to do that when it’s an impatient kind of situation
Speaker 1 55:40
in my two experiences, both up in Calgary and also Mississippi, with inpatient, there’s so many other things in the inner workings of doing inpatient going on that sure I can still add that time with somebody, yet I’m also thinking about, you know, the next class and next group offering other logistical duties, it’s a little bit easier to do that one on one. Yeah, indeed, indeed.
Michael Hingson 56:10
Do you think that you can develop? I assume the answer is yes, but I’ll ask, do you think that it’s possible to develop the same level of trust in doing inpatient work, or it may be harder, but can you do it?
Speaker 1 56:28
That can happen on a case by case basis, depending on my relationship with someone. Yes, I can get there, and you know, just.. and sometimes, paradoxically, it can happen even quicker than outpatient, depending on the situation, because I am with them. There is a positive with that. Yes,
Michael Hingson 56:48
it’s.. it’s a matter of working to build it, you know. And, unfortunately, human beings, especially nowadays, are so mistrustful of so many things, we’ve learned not to trust, and so in my latest book, Live Like a Guide Dog, I talk about that a lot, because while I think dogs love unconditionally, they don’t trust unconditionally, but they’re open to trust, they want to develop trusting relationships, and we just assume everyone has their own hidden agendas, and it’s so hard to develop trusting relationships,
Speaker 1 57:24
very hard, very difficult. It takes time and effort and patience, tolerance for myself, the other person, and that makes sense with dogs, because I mean, enough’s, you know, when a dog’s been abused, they don’t want to trust right away, no, for sure.
Michael Hingson 57:38
Well, but even even dogs that aren’t abused, like I believe it takes for me, and I think if you really analyze it, for most people with a guide dog, I think it takes a good year to develop such a working relationship that you develop such a trust that essentially you each know what the other is thinking and you really know how to work it. It’s not that they’re not mistrustful, but they’re open. They’re open to trust, but you’ve got to, you’ve got to gain their trust, and that’s my job as the team leader. And I’m supposed to be the team leader, but it also means that I have to agree, well, earn or gain their trust. The neat thing, and what makes it possible to do that, assuming that you approach it the right way and don’t assume a dog is just a dumb animal, which they’re not, is that in fact working with a dog, you know that they’re more likely to be open to trust, and that makes it a little bit easier than our prejudice that says everybody’s got a hidden agenda that we got to focus on,
Speaker 1 58:47
yeah. And appreciate you sharing that, and it shows just the amount of work that comes into play with trust.
Michael Hingson 58:54
Yeah, it’s it’s a challenge, but it is doable. Well, so what’s next for you?
Speaker 1 59:01
Yeah, just doing some work after this with the work that I do, and yeah, it’s starting to get that book into the place of having editorial reviews and starting to get that edited professionally.
Michael Hingson 59:14
Have either of your books been converted to audio?
Speaker 1 59:17
The second one has. Yes.
Michael Hingson 59:22
Is it? Where is it available? Audible, or how is it available?
Speaker 1 59:25
It’s my own special design. It’s actually got a, it’s got a Texan man, a doing it. He’s got a nice voice, pretty soothing. Yet it’s through what’s called the Hero app, H I R O. And I can send you the link if you’re interested. For that,
Michael Hingson 59:40
love to, yeah,
Speaker 1 59:42
yeah.
Michael Hingson 59:44
Well, this has been enjoyable, certainly by any standard. If people want to reach out to you, maybe use your services or talk with you. How do they do that?
Speaker 1 59:53
They can find me, Michael, through Recovery Arts counseling.com and that’s Counseling with 2l’s since I’m up here in Canada. You can find me through Instagram at Eric Fisher Writer or Recovery Arts Counseling. You can find me Facebook the same way on LinkedIn, just type in my name. You can look for, like, Calgary, like counselor recovery counseling. What do else? That’s right, everybody learned something new today, if they did not, if they didn’t already. So, those are a few
Michael Hingson 1:00:25
ways. Well, that’s great. Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to be here, and I value greatly your insights. I’ve learned things, and I always enjoy doing that. And I hope all of you out there listening have as well. Love to get your thoughts, so I’d love to hear from you. Feel free to email me at Michael M I C H A E L H I at Accessi B A C C E S S I B e.com Wherever you’re listening or watching, or both, this podcast, please give us a five star review. But even more important than a review, a rating, five star rating, give us a review. We really value reviews and people who might be interested in listening to our podcasts, are going to read those reviews. I can tell you for sure that people love to know what others think. So, we value your reviews a great deal. And if any of you, including you, Eric, know of anyone else who ought to be a guest on Unstoppable Mindset, we’d love an introduction, because we’re always looking for people who want to come on and tell their stories, so I hope that that we’ll find ways to do that, and definitely value you being here, Eric, and doing all this, and I want to thank you again for being here. This has been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 1:01:37
Thank you, Michael. Happy to be on you. thank
Michael Hingson 1:01:43
you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today’s conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you’re ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others. I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable min
